Women with Children - more strongly worded advice

[Faux Pas]

My wife and I have been married going on 8 years. She is Russian from Siberia. I raised 2 children and didn't meet my wife until they were both gone to college and moved out of my home. My wife never had any children and when we met she was moving beyond her birthing years at 40.

I wasn't looking for a woman with children. I also wasn't looking for a woman without children. Whether a lady had children or not was never on my radar at that point in my exploration. I was looking for a woman to possibly, at some point share my life with and I would share hers. If that woman had kids, then I would be sharing those and if she didn't I wouldn't. It was as simple as that.

I was looking for a woman that was in the same stage of her life that I was at in mine. I was lucky enough to find her. That is what I encourage you to do. Seek the woman with or without child.

You want a ready made family fine but, it doesn't matter either way if you do not first develop and nurture a relationship with the woman. That should be your focus IMHO

Focusing all that attention to a woman's child at this early stage in the game is really creepy. It certainly brings into question your motives. A woman's child (if she has any) is part and parcel of the package but not your focal point at this stage.

[treadmilldude]

Thank you for your reply Faux Pass. I am very happy to hear you and your Russian Wife are approaching your 8 Year Anniversary. Congratulations for finding a wonderful woman, and also for having a great marriage. I hope to be as blessed as you and celebrate my own 8 year Anniversary to a wonderful girl from Minsk some day.   

I am curious about one thing, however. I have read repeatedly that nearly every FSU woman has a strong desire to have Children at some point in their life. I believe you said your Wife was 40 when you married, and since you are coming up on the 8 year mark, I assume she is about 48, rendering the production of a child almost impossible for her. Did she actually want to have a child at some point in her life, yet never found a suitable partner? Or was she part of the minority of FSU women who elect to not ever have Children?

That is one issue I have thought about.....finding a woman from Minsk between 29-33 who does not have any Children, court her, win her heart, marry her and bring her to the US. Once she is here in the US, after a few years in the US, when it was originally agreed upon in Belarus that we would have Children in a few years, somehow she changes her mind on me and decides "Ummm, treadmilldude, I changed my mind, I love you honey, but I do not want Children anymore". Ummm, that would really suck for me. That is always a possibility, I guess. 

Not sure exactly why you think it is so creepy for me to have a deep love for Children. Some men love Children and relate to them very well, some do not. As the Geico commercials say, "Loving Children...it's what I do".   

[Faux Pas]

Thank you for your reply Faux Pass. I am very happy to hear you and your Russian Wife are approaching your 8 Year Anniversary. Congratulations for finding a wonderful woman, and also for having a great marriage. I hope to be as blessed as you and celebrate my own 8 year Anniversary to a wonderful girl from Minsk some day.   

I am curious about one thing, however. I have read repeatedly that nearly every FSU woman has a strong desire to have Children at some point in their life. I believe you said your Wife was 40 when you married, and since you are coming up on the 8 year mark, I assume she is about 48, rendering the production of a child almost impossible for her. Did she actually want to have a child at some point in her life, yet never found a suitable partner? Or was she part of the minority of FSU women who elect to not ever have Children?

That is one issue I have thought about.....finding a woman from Minsk between 29-33 who does not have any Children, court her, win her heart, marry her and bring her to the US. Once she is here in the US, after a few years in the US, when it was originally agreed upon in Belarus that we would have Children in a few years, somehow she changes her mind on me and decides "Ummm, treadmilldude, I changed my mind, I love you honey, but I do not want Children anymore". Ummm, that would really suck for me. That is always a possibility, I guess. 

Not sure exactly why you think it is so creepy for me to have a deep love for Children. Some men love Children and relate to them very well, some do not. As the Geico commercials say, "Loving Children...it's what I do".

My wife is 51, I'm soon to be 56 we didn't marry at first meeting. Remember there was that part I mentioned to you about getting to know each other, developing and nurturing a relationship. Those things take time. Everything isn't going to work on your time line TMD, prepare for that. You might not ever be a father and you should prepare for that too. What good are you going to do a child being a great father and have some piss poor god awful relationship with a woman you barely know and hates you? All because you didn't take the time to help insure you love each other and are compatible? Even in the best of circumstances the chances are 50/50. Prepare for that.

But, first things first. You aren't getting anywhere and you aren't advancing your timeline until you get your ass on a plane and go.

[Faux Pas]

Oh yeah, I forgot to answer your question. Yes my wife wanted children but she didn't want to raise one without a father. Her 1st husband was "unreliable" (her words not mine) for children.

But, don't let that mislead you. Forget all the stereo typing you see repeated about FSUW. For the most part it's bullshit. They are as varied and versatile as any other women anywhere. My wife is very soft spoken, demure and every bit the lady. Doesn't utter a bad word about anyone including her ex thus the "unreliable" description. Don't believe all the hype and stereo type. You'll get caught looking. 

[AnonMod]

One thing I might suggest to the mods here on RWD...I do not think this thread should be in the " RWD No-Holds Barred » Anything Goes (Members Only)" Forum. No. The information and advice presented in this thread is incredibly important to every member of RWD, not just the registered members. Yet, because all of this important advice being doled out is in a Forum that only registered members can view, that means 90% of the members of RWD - all of the "guests" - cannot read this thread. I think this is a mistake and I wish a mod would move this thread to a different forum where even the guests can read it.

The thread was either started here because the OP did not wish it to be searchable on google, or it was moved here at the OP's request.  We will respect the OP's wishes.

[John of Hesperia]

TMD, I read about as far as you did, and heck, Im no expert but find a lot of good and a lot of bad advise here at RWD.

I also note that you haven't made a trip yet, time to break down and do it.  My first trio last year ended in misery, but learned a lot. 

Since I'm in  my 70's and have absolutely no desire to start another family, (my kids are 50 and 46) I've looked for ladies 50+, and will be meeting four in September.  Two have a minor child, one is divorced 50 yo with a ten yo daughter, the other a widow with a 12 yo son,  The former is a bit iffy, but feel really good about the latter. 
IMHO, each of us is different.  Just do what your heart tells you, as long as you use your upper head as well!

[Gator]

Forget all this shit. Find you a women you like. A women you find attractive and whom you'd like to date. Discover and learn about each other. After that has been accomplished then and only then discuss a possible future together. Decide if you can live with or without this woman and THEN and only then do you weigh the child in the relationship's future.

Good advice, except it is not always possible to separate the mother from the child in the relationship if the child is young. 

The attachment to a child may blind you from realizing you and the mother are not ideal for each other.  It is difficult to break a relationship if a young child is attached to you. 

So Treadmill, do as FP advises and focus on the woman and not her child.  The smart RW knows this, and she will probably not introduce you to her child until she feels good about you.  After that, you still need to restrain your love for children.  Be nice to the child, buy the child gifts,  spend time together at the zoo or whatever, but restrain your feelings.  Do ask grandmother to watch the child while you and the mother have some time together at adult places.   

[Gator]

The thread was either started here because the OP did not wish it to be searchable on google, or it was moved here at the OP's request.  We will respect the OP's wishes.

It was probably moved here because of some acrimonious interaction among members much later in the thread. 

[Gator]

Two have a minor child, one is divorced 50 yo with a ten yo daughter, the other a widow with a 12 yo son,  The former is a bit iffy, but feel really good about the latter. 

Your two women show that some RW do have children later in life. 

I hope one of them proves to be the woman of your dreams.  You can tell her that there are many AW in the same situation (50 with young child), and she will probably befriend a few at school functions. 

[treadmilldude]

Yep.
 
So when is she going to join you in your bed?
 
No need to answer us. Just yourself.
 
Simple question, when is day 751?

Muzh, minor problem and not a big deal. I dunno if you are aware of this, but (365 * 2) + 1 = 731 days, not 751 days. Just thought you should know as this is now the 6th or 7th time in this thread you have used the figure of 751. Maybe they do arithmetic a little bit differently in the Czech Republic than the rest of the world? 

[treadmilldude]

This thread is your story, not  mine, yet I will comment to illustrate that communication took place.  You can contrast it with your situation.  In fact, I bet we communicated more in our first few weeks together than you and Alina have.  I am serious. 

One thing that attracted me to my wife in the beginning is that somehow we communicated even though she spoke almost no English.  If we could overcome such a barrier, the sky was the limit IMO.   10 reasons (without any gush so as to not offend Muzh) why it happened:

1.  Neither of us is reticent.
2.  Trust, trust and more trust.
3.  Wanting to communicate in order to build a relationship.
4.  Having common values.
5.  Being direct, forthright and honest.
6.  Focusing on the words we understood - I still recall many times looking at each other in the eye and saying/asking pravda.
7.  Electronic translator - which requires clarity, brevity, directness and patience.
8.  Interpreter  (used them only three times in our first week together but were essential).
9.  Somehow finding a way around the misunderstandings - mostly amusing, but also our two darkest hours.
10.  Luck. 

Believe it or not, we communicated.  Equally important, we had a lot of fun together.  Most men here do not believe it.   Muzh is one.   That's okay because it is my life, not his.  Looking back, I admit I am amazed. 

How many of these "10 reasons" do you and Alina have?  You don't need #7 but do you both have the clarity, brevity, directness and patience I listed?   With regard to #8, you don't need an interpreter but an interpreter can provide a facilitator function.  I just hope that you and Alina in your remaining time are able to communicate as much.

This is inspirational to me Gator. And it is indicative of just how much you and your Wife cared for each other and realized ya'll were both willing to work through some very tough obstacles in order to be a successful couple.

It's also inspirational to me because 4 of my friends on VK, whom I met on Mamba in Belarus, are just like your Wife was initially, Gator - very little English and we have to rely on translate.yandex.com to communicate. But you made it work, so if I do decide to pursue one of these young women who do not speak English, I know it can definitely be done (LOL although Boethius has already told me she does not think it a wise idea to pursue a woman who does not speak English. So 2 people I admire and respect greatly - Gator and Boethius - are on opposite sides of this issue. Boethius is prettier and more attractive, yet Gator can beat her in an arm-wrestling contest.    )

[msmobyone]

I assume she is about 48, rendering the production of a child almost impossible for her.

Incorrect.

The risks for the child mother are greater - but many women are capable of conceiving and go full term

[treadmilldude]

The average age of U.S. women at the time of menopause is 51 years. The most common age range at which women experience menopause is 48-55 years.

When I wrote my post you responded to Moby, I got my figures mixed up in my head concerning the timeline of FP's and his wife's marriage and courtship. I mistakenly remembered FP and his lovely wife getting married when she was the age of 48 (They did not actually, as FP alluded to, they met when she was 40 and married when she was 43.) Naturally, most couples do not have a baby the moment they marry, rather they wait a few years. It can put enormous stress on newlyweds if they try to have a child immediately after a wedding, and in one of my psychology classes I took in school about 10,000 years ago (yes, I am an old man), it was the basic recommendation of my Prof for my Behavioral Psyc class that a couple should wait a minimum of 2 years after marriage before they try to have a child. So in my mind, I erroneously remembered his wife as being 48 when they married. Wait 2 years to have a child, that puts her at 50....average age of menopause is 51...50 and 51....getting might might mighty close to impossible to conceive there if she was in fact 50 at the time they would want to try and conceive.

That is the logic behind my post Moby. Thank you for pointing out the flaw in my memory - as she was 43 when they married, not 48 as I mistakenly remembered, then if she waited 2 years she would be 45. And you are right at 45 it would not be "almost impossible" for them to conceive. At 50 as I mistakenly remembered, however, my statement was fairly accurate - it is almost impossible for a 50 year-old woman to get pregnant. And it is highly frowned upon within the medical community as the risk of birth defects in the child at that very advanced maternal age would be very high.

[supraman]

Just a curious and useless piece of info ..
   Women from roughly 18-to 30 yo , falling pregnant--   have a chance of the child having Down Syndrome of about 1 in 1700 , which is considered low risk and normal .

For even a healthy woman of around 40 years old - that factor  can come down closer to 1 in 60 . !
  Don't shoot me ,as figures are open to a few factors but basically this is the difference of odds - just for DS .
   
   

[LiveFromUkraine]

Muzh, minor problem and not a big deal. I dunno if you are aware of this, but (365 * 2) + 1 = 731 days, not 751 days. Just thought you should know as this is now the 6th or 7th time in this thread you have used the figure of 751. Maybe they do arithmetic a little bit differently in the Czech Republic than the rest of the world? 

Holy Zombie post Batman!


You're responding to a 2 year post.  I think Muzh has moved on to greener pastures, aka retirement.  The laws of math and physics (nor socks) are no longer needed in retirement.

[Gator]

This is inspirational to me Gator. And it is indicative of just how much you and your Wife cared for each other and realized ya'll were both willing to work through some very tough obstacles in order to be a successful couple.

I wrote the piece you quoted over two years ago.  My advice then applied more to the initial year.  In another thread I recently gave advice about the later years.

I know it can definitely be done (LOL although Boethius has already told me she does not think it a wise idea to pursue a woman who does not speak English. So 2 people I admire and respect greatly - Gator and Boethius - are on opposite sides of this issue.

Two points: 

-  Change the word "definitely"  to "quite possibly."

-  I agree with Boethius that it is not a wise idea.  In my case I broke the rules because my wife is glorious, awesome, .....


Here is a general guideline from my perspective.  During your first visit with a woman lacking in English, communication will frequently   frustrate you.   However, the frustration is tempered by the psychological rush of meeting a new, intriguing woman.  IMPORTANT:  The frustration does not lessen in subsequent meetings as her English improves.  In fact, the frustration increases in frequency, duration and intensity as you try to step up communication to a level you had with girlfriends of the past.  She will feel the same, maybe even more.  Success requires patience, patience, and more patience. 

[treadmilldude]

I wrote the piece you quoted over two years ago.  My advice then applied more to the initial year.  In another thread I recently gave advice about the later years.

Two points: 

-  Change the word "definitely"  to "quite possibly."

-  I agree with Boethius that it is not a wise idea.  In my case I broke the rules because my wife is glorious, awesome, .....


Here is a general guideline from my perspective.  During your first visit with a woman lacking in English, communication will frequently   frustrate you.   However, the frustration is tempered by the psychological rush of meeting a new, intriguing woman.  IMPORTANT:  The frustration does not lessen in subsequent meetings as her English improves.  In fact, the frustration increases in frequency, duration and intensity as you try to step up communication to a level you had with girlfriends of the past.  She will feel the same, maybe even more.  Success requires patience, patience, and more patience.

I have no doubt she is a great woman. Do you have any pics of you and/or her posted here on RWD, Gator? I'd love to see some pictures of you two.....but to be completely honest, I'd rather see a bunch of pictures of her as I bet she's a lot better-looking than you are.    I don't even think you'll argue with me on that point.

[Gator]

I have no doubt she is a great woman. Do you have any pics of you and/or her posted here on RWD, Gator?

My RWD photo pasting function has not worked for a year or two (some unknown software reason).  However, my wife's photos can be found  on RWD in several past threads.  In this post, I like the photo entitled "Cossack on Motorcycle."  Gorgeous green eyes are behind those sunglasses.   

                http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3538.msg64465#msg64465

That particular T/R has many photos, and it may interest you because it touches on the subject of dealing with a language barrier.

[Slumba]

Incorrect.

The risks for the child mother are greater - but many women are capable of conceiving and go full term

Unless there is a misunderstanding and you mean "38" instead of "48"...

"Many (48yo women) are capable of conceiving"

is an absolutely ridiculous statement and clearly meant to inspire laughter.

[Boethius]

Actually, no, it is not a ridiculous statement. I personally know 3 women who gave birth over age 45, all naturally (i.e., not treatments).  One was a first time mother.  One of my cousins became a first time mother at 44 (first marriage, she always wanted to marry, but never found the right man).  My husband's great grandmother gave birth to her youngest at age 53.

There were almost 700 US women who gave birth over age 50 last year.  A third were first time mothers.  I assume fertility treatments were used in a majority of those cases.  Even with menopause, with new fertility treatments, post menopausal women have carried healthy babies to term.

Most women would not wish to have children so late in life.  Children require a great deal of energy.  They will suck any remnants of youth out of you when they are teens.  Personally, I would not wish to be a senior citizen dealing with a 15 year old. 

[Slumba]

There were almost 700 US women who gave birth over age 50 last year.  A third were first time mothers.  I assume fertility treatments were used in a majority of those cases.  Even with menopause, with new fertility treatments, post menopausal women have carried healthy babies to term.

700 out of a population of 150 million women (approx). 

That does not qualify as "many" at all, out of the USA's 3.5 to 4 million births each year. 

And a large portion of those require $50K to $100K or more in treatment, as you mentioned.

Stats for even 40yo women are extremely discouraging when compared to e.g. 30yo: 

"A 30-year-old woman has a 20 percent chance of getting pregnant in any given month. At 40, that figure plummets to five percent. By the time you reach 45, your chance of a healthy pregnancy using your own eggs is one percent."

I will let this MD-reviewed site give you the details... http://www.healthline.com/health/menopause/pregnancy

Yes, you were wise to have your kids earlier when you had the energy to do so...

[Boethius]

All irrelevant to my point. An older woman determined to have a child has options and will have one.

The energy is psychological, rather than physical.

[Slumba]

All irrelevant to my point. An older woman determined to have a child has options and will have one.

The energy is psychological, rather than physical.

I know you don't mean offense, but, my sister in law who tried to get pregnant (and my brother had the cash to try anything and everything) from 34 thru to about 42, and did not become pregnant, might wish to differ.

They ended up adopting however.

[alex330]

All irrelevant to my point. An older woman determined to have a child has options and will have one.

Sure, give the woman some hcg injections and she may be able to. But what about the risks to the child? Humans were not meant to give birth later in life.

[fathertime]

700 out of a population of 150 million women (approx). 

700 out of 150 million sounds extremely daunting..EXCEPT it isn't a fair number to use.  First there are probably only  a few million women ages 48=51...and there may be only be 10,000 women at age 50 that are even trying  become pregnant, if that.  I don't know the actual number but that would bring down the odds a lot.    I imagine in the years to come the likelihood of success will do nothing but increase.


Fathertime!