Women with Children - more strongly worded advice

[jmana]

How do you reconcile the above with "..it was all lies..."

Rather difficult for someone to pull of a feat of sheer acting genius for such an extended period, don't you think?

Seems more like it was a genuine relationship that went south. It happens.

That's how I look at it, but she see's it differently because she was talked into it by her relatives.  Really doesn't matter I suppose, but it does annoy me that she sees it as being completely fake.  I know you can fake certain things for a certain amount of time, but not for 4 years. 

[jmana]

The very easy questions are:

What made you file a petition and decide to marry her when you know the woman isn't in agreement with it?

Was the transaction made as payment for the sole purpose of marrying the woman despite her very obvious show of discontent and signs of being coerced into the marriage?

$1,000.00 payable in 7 (equal) payments? They probably would've taken even less?

If human trafficking is out of the question, would immigration fraud be applicable?

I guess you aren't reading what I'm writing.  She never showed any signs of discontent, or of being coerced.  In fact it was just the opposite.  I didn't even find out about her aunt writing most of the emails until years later (even though I had my suspicions).  And no, it was less than $1,000 total.  Probably a lot less.  The biggest thing they asked for was for a coat because hers got stolen, I think I sent her $200 for that.  I think she said they actually did buy a coat for her, just didn't spend that much for it.  So it really wasn't a lot of money.  She sent way more money than I ever did, but that went to her parents, not her grandmother, and was mostly for her mother's health issues if I remember correctly. 

[Daveman]

 If a Western man told an FSU women he will not start the k-1 paperwork in less than two years, I think most FSU women would dump him instead of waiting up to 3 years between first date and living with him in his country. If guy needs at least two years to figure somebody out, chances are he's not capable of figuring anybody out. I'm glad it worked out for Vinnvinny but it's going to get a lot of men dumped if they told women they won't be able to decide on marriage until 2 years after the first date.
...

Well, that would be a prrrrrrretty distinctive tell tale indicator of incompatibility which would, at least, avert the "is this a cultural difference?" types of posts... 

People wanna rush into and through this process for a variety of excuses reasons.  Yeah, I get that.  They're adults and can do as they please.  And more often than not they will pay the price for attempting the bargain gottahaveitnow betrothal with all that "smart soul mate readin' " ultimately biting them on the arse.  A few will be lucky.  More will show up pitching conniption fits.  There really is no substitute for time.  Unless she's hot.

[GQBlues]

I guess you aren't reading what I'm writing.  She never showed any signs of discontent, or of being coerced.  In fact it was just the opposite.  I didn't even find out about her aunt writing most of the emails until years later (even though I had my suspicions).  And no, it was less than $1,000 total.  Probably a lot less.  The biggest thing they asked for was for a coat because hers got stolen, I think I sent her $200 for that.  I think she said they actually did buy a coat for her, just didn't spend that much for it.  So it really wasn't a lot of money.  She sent way more money than I ever did, but that went to her parents, not her grandmother, and was mostly for her mother's health issues if I remember correctly.

Got it. It must be your aversion to structure your posts with paragraphs which makes reading a bit difficult. You said she's so into you, yet she says she never was...

But to be fair, I was asking if southpaw could explain what I quoted in my previous post regarding sending/paying her aunt/baba (relatives?).

" ....My relationships were rocky, I had no stability, no support, no alimony...My relatives abandoned me-they got their money jmana sent to them, then vanished a long time ago. ( We will never speak again and they live across the street)..."

Additionally now when she said.

"...Our marriage was arranged by my grandmother and aunt that took him in for cash, that is not what I wanted, it was completely forced and manipulated, I was 18 y.o. and did not know any better at the time)."

Which runs totally counter to what you're saying....which you should then understand how 'elaboration' was in fact, called for.

[lonedrake]

But human trafficking?  No, not even close.

 Thanks for explaining more about the situation.

 I don't know why others are offended? You seem fine with answering questions

[lonedrake]

If a Western man told an FSU women he will not start the k-1 paperwork in less than two years, I think most FSU women would dump him instead of waiting up to 3 years between first date and living with him in his country. If guy needs at least two years to figure somebody out, chances are he's not capable of figuring anybody out. I'm glad it worked out for Vinnvinny but it's going to get a lot of men dumped if they told women they won't be able to decide on marriage until 2 years after the first date

 I agree.

[lonedrake]

Which brings us back to:

Quote from: Vinnvinny on February 18, 2014, 04:53:57 PM
... The moral of yours and other tales is guys should date a lady for at least 2 years before making any commitment. Whilst some might disagree I will add in support of my position that it’s worked well for me, I’ve yet to be divorced from a FSU woman.

 If I was looking for sex tourist advice......Vinnvinny would be the guy I would turn to.

 Now I have no idea what Vinnvinny's true motivation is, but he is not the guy to take marriage advice from.

 Just calling it like I see it

 

[Gator]

Jmana,

You have been very informative throughout this ordeal, and this has prompted questions, some of them odd if not absurd.   You have answered the questions.  There is no need to participate in any followup. 


 

[Gator]

And I spent 10 days there and not once did she show any sign that she didn't want to be with me, in fact it was the complete opposite.  And it was that way for the first 3 or 4 years of marriage.  There were times I had to push her away because it was just too intense, I wasn't used to it.

I have a comment rather than a question. 

The intensity you experienced could be what many western men have felt when expressing the opinion, "You will know when a FSUW loves you."   Southpaw was young, and it did not help that you pushed her away. 

My wife will frequently walk up to me at home, put both arms around me, hold me tenderly, etc.  I can sense her spirit.  I reciprocate, and if for some reason not enough, she reminds me that studies show when men and women hold each other like this they live longer and happier.   

During our first few months together, she would pick lint off me, hold me, etc., yet the intensity was not there.   When I say intensity, it is more spiritual, and certainly not frenzied.   Such intensity is not WASP culture.  And I love it.   

[jmana]

I have a comment rather than a question. 

The intensity you experienced could be what many western men have felt when expressing the opinion, "You will know when a FSUW loves you."   Southpaw was young, and it did not help that you pushed her away. 

Oh I know, and I have a lot of regrets, but I was young too and had no clue what I was doing.  I was really selfish at the time and when I wanted to do something (like something around the house - I was remodeling at the time we got married), I wanted to do it.  And if she was trying to gain affection from me at that time, I saw her as an annoyance.  It was my flaw and I admit it.  I've learned since then, thankfully, but now I'm with someone who doesn't throw herself on me at all, haha!  So I guess you have to be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it....

[die_cast]

Gator, dogspot
Well, we all were reading same posts about this girl, I guess. And I'm curious, what in those posts made you think that she is in love? What signs of love you see in her behaviour? That she moved to another country? That she is ready to get married? Probably, in perfect world, it would were signs of love, but we live in real world. So I wonder why would she looks into his eyes, smiles at him and tells him how much she loves him when she is not in love with him?

I think you missed her question completely.
Again, why would she do that? A woman just told you that. Think, man.

[Muzh]

Now for the fun part....

Some, likely more than others....  It'll go something like this...

Final Act - titled: Of Love and Duty. 16:00 minutes, setting - dusk, man staring into the setting sun, looking westward. Pictures of two little children playing at a distant while man in deep consolation, searching for an answer, and slowly narrates the followng:

Voiced over..

....My Beloved is now gone from me. For many complicated reasons, it is quite likely we shall never see each other again. She has been in serious turmoil for several months over the situation in her country, and it has gotten worse in the past several weeks, of course. She has close relatives who have been called up from reserves to active military, and she fears for their lives.

She, like most other women, took required nursing courses during her University education.  And she now feels that she should take refresher courses and volunteer for this type of duty.  She wants to stand arm to arm with other women who will try to prevent bloodshed when invaders attack their countrymen.

My gal was within two months of finishing her coursework for a masters degree.  Because she was a top student, the University and her professors have agreed to let her complete exams via Internet connections (take exams during Skype sessions, etc.).  But, there is some doubt that she will actually be able to keep up with the needed study, etc.

---background music here. Preferably Air Supply's "I'm All out of Love"----

I have been totally sick and heartbroken since she left early this morning; and haven't been able to eat anything yet. She has called from two airports and has uncontrolled sobbing from being apart from me; and wonders what is actually the correct action to take.

----distant sounds of children giggling-laughing----narration continues.

....She had planned for a trip last Christmas, and had (since that time) already been planning for this trip as a replacement for the missed Christmas trip.  But the recent events caused this trip and the outlook for our future to take a terrible turn. My hatred for the 'marauding souls' grow stronger with each minute....

Scene, fade shots, and slowly pans upon the even deeper setting sun....and CUT! Roll credits, 2 lead character names first, then Title, all other credits to follow.

Background Music: The Carpenters "For All We Know"

That is fcuking hillarious. 

[Muzh]

If I was looking for sex tourist advice......Vinnvinny would be the guy I would turn to.

 Now I have no idea what Vinnvinny's true motivation is, but he is not the guy to take marriage advice from.

 Just calling it like I see it

That's a bit harsh considering that your "circumstances" and his "circumstances" are quite different. Something aking you being single and going to the local watering hole hoping to get lucky and people accusing you of soliciting prostitutes because you bought her some drinks and maybe dinner and that got you laid.

[GQBlues]

Jmana,

You have been very informative throughout this ordeal, and this has prompted questions, some of them odd if not absurd.   You have answered the questions.  There is no need to participate in any followup.

I disagree.

Otherwise, this site is reduced for sharing fables, fairy tales, half-truths, lies, delusions, or at the very least, a one-sided version of some silly saga that should almost immediately presumed to be the truth and nothing but the truth.

It isn't everyday you get versions of both sides of a story, yet when you do, many of you want to silence the other. LOL. How fascinating.

Neither of our subjects here were forced to share whatever it was that happened in their relationship. For a while, we only had one side of the story and he painted a fairly bleak, almost damning accounting of his *experience* about a prime facet of our common denominator. Unexpectedly the 'other' side of the story- mostly an opposite version - appeared, and ensuing questions arise- now you want to silence it? What the hell are we here for if only to BS one another? Is this what this site really is for?

Interesting. Maybe Dan, or however is at the helm, can openly let everyone know now that stories, experiences, sagas need not be challenged for authenticity and elaboration and must at best be given only less than truthful accounting by their authors. This way at least we know were all exchanging BS, especially when we begin giving out advice to newbies.

Pretty funny if given the thought that our present day robust threads in other sections demonize *propaganda, censorship and lack of truths* in things we read these days.

[Daveman]

If a Western man told an FSU women he will not start the k-1 paperwork in less than two years, I think most FSU women would dump him instead of waiting up to 3 years between first date and living with him in his country. If guy needs at least two years to figure somebody out, chances are he's not capable of figuring anybody out. I'm glad it worked out for Vinnvinny but it's going to get a lot of men dumped if they told women they won't be able to decide on marriage until 2 years after the first date

 I agree.

Well, rushing into, or even succumbing to pressure over something due of some kind of fear of being dumped is simply beyond ridiculous.  If a man is afraid of losing a woman, especially early on, then he has as close to a guarantee as possible that he's going to lose the girl anyway.

Secondly, if a woman dumps a man for not rushing into marriage, then is seems pretty obvious that her interest wasn't actually the guy but rather something else - whatever that may be.

[Muzh]

I disagree.

Otherwise, this site is reduced for sharing fables, fairy tales, half-truths, lies, delusions, or at the very least, a one-sided version of some silly saga that should almost immediately presumed to be the truth and nothing but the truth.

It isn't everyday you get versions of both sides of a story, yet when you do, many of you want to silence the other. LOL. How fascinating.

Neither of our subjects here were forced to share whatever it was that happened in their relationship. For a while, we only had one side of the story and he painted a fairly bleak, almost damning accounting of his *experience* about a prime facet of our common denominator. Unexpectedly the 'other' side of the story- mostly an opposite version - appeared, and ensuing questions arise- now you want to silence it? What the hell are we here for if only to BS one another? Is this what this site really is for?

Interesting. Maybe Dan, or however is at the helm, can openly let everyone know now that stories, experiences, sagas need not be challenged for authenticity and elaboration and must at best be given only less than truthful accounting by their authors. This way at least we know were all exchanging BS, especially when we begin giving out advice to newbies.

Pretty funny if given the thought that our present day robust threads in other sections demonize *propaganda, censorship and lack of truths* in things we read these days.

Hear Hear*
 
 
 
*Short for "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"

[Slumba]

It isn't everyday you get versions of both sides of a story, yet when you do, many of you want to silence the other. LOL. How fascinating.

It would help if people didn't project their own histrionics onto the barest of facts.  Like say, claiming human trafficking.

[jmana]

It would help if people didn't project their own histrionics onto the barest of facts.  Like say, claiming human trafficking.

No kidding    

[GQBlues]

It would help if people didn't project their own histrionics onto the barest of facts.  Like say, claiming human trafficking.

Even better, it would help even more if people actually understood what they read, or have the ability to follow with the discussion especially when a statement is preempted by: IF this in fact is true.... - thus the call for elaboration.

But that hardly serves the cause for some, I suppose.

[CanadaMan]

It isn't everyday you get versions of both sides of a story, yet when you do, many of you want to silence the other. LOL. How fascinating.

It would help if people didn't project their own histrionics onto the barest of facts.  Like say, claiming human trafficking.

Touche! 

From a purely entertainment point of view, it's threads like these (the hijacked part) that make RWD worth the price of admission alone, so I'm not complaining in the least.

But it boggles the mind how someone can marry a person whom they barely knew, divorce them a few years later when they finally conceded they were incompatible and then jump right back into another marriage with another person whom they barely know (but to their credit does show some promise of becoming a soulmate sometime in the future).

[Gator]

I disagree.

It isn't everyday you get versions of both sides of a story, yet when you do, many of you want to silence the other. LOL. How fascinating.

IMO that is not what happened. 

You made an accusation that jmana engaged in human trafficking.  I consider your accusation as not only baseless, but defamation,  perhaps with malice considering that you have hounded jmana throughout this thread.   


Why baseless?   Central to human trafficking is holding a person in involuntary servitude, typically sexual servitude.  In contrast, Southpaw called it an "arranged marriage."   And in fact Southpaw had the opportunity to refuse marriage. 

Througout this long thread, jmana has been a good sport about answering everybody's questions, and he answered your accusation about trafficking,  closing with "No, not even close."

That was not good enough for you, and you continued your inquiry, asking questions about money.  BTW, in many cultures it is customary for the groom to pay for the right to marry.  jmana answered your new questions.  No hint of wrongdoing.  That was still not enough for you, so you persisted in a circular pattern. 

Jmana does not know your ways like many of us at RWD do.  To preempt entanglements,  I posted to jmana that he had answered enough of your questions about trafficking.  I admit I was warning him of you.

What is the next charge?  "jmana if it is true that you had sex with a zebra at a Carolina Panthers football game...."

[Gator]

Gator, dogspot
Well, we all were reading same posts about this girl, I guess. And I'm curious, what in those posts made you think that she is in love? What signs of love you see in her behaviour? That she moved to another country? That she is ready to get married? Probably, in perfect world, it would were signs of love, but we live in real world. So I wonder why would she looks into his eyes, smiles at him and tells him how much she loves him when she is not in love with him?

Thanks.  You have answered my question.  I offered a multiple choice, and your answer corresponds to choice #2:  i. e., "The time Alina and Jmana have spent together is too short for true love to happen; they are still strangers in key ways."  That was the better of the two choices and it is my choice as well. 

Note to Muzh:  this went over your head.  So in this case you were the blond bimbo who won't get it.   

[GQBlues]

IMO that is not what happened. 

You made an accusation that jmana engaged in human trafficking.  I consider your accusation as not only baseless, but defamation,  perhaps with malice considering that you have hounded jmana throughout this thread....

This must definitely be age related.

1. The matter of human trafficking was neither brought up by me, nor...
2. Accusation are made unconditionally.
3. I never inquired about the money transaction with jmana when i first asked the question. The question was directed at southpaw. Frankly, anything jmana tells me in an attempt to answer the question goes in one ear and out the other because I wanted to hear the 'other' side of the event. If I wanted to hear his story, I would've ask the question from him, capice?

Your difficulties understanding what is actually said and making proper distinction is not my responsibility. Try again.

 

[lonedrake]

That's a bit harsh considering that your "circumstances" and his "circumstances" are quite different

Point taken as I do not know what the differing circumstances are.

1. The matter of human trafficking was neither brought up by me,

 Yes...It was I. When a woman says she was forced into marriage and money was paid......I think deserves an explanation.

 I still hope southpaw comes back and tells her side of the "deal"

Well, rushing into, or even succumbing to pressure over something due of some kind of fear of being dumped is simply beyond ridiculous.  If a man is afraid of losing a woman, especially early on, then he has as close to a guarantee as possible that he's going to lose the girl anyway.

Secondly, if a woman dumps a man for not rushing into marriage, then is seems pretty obvious that her interest wasn't actually the guy but rather something else - whatever that may be.

 So even waiting 1.5 years would be rushing?  I find it hard to believe that. The advice was wait at LEAST 2 years before any commitment.

Unless she's hot.

I still love the humor


 

[Daveman]

 So even waiting 1.5 years would be rushing?  I find it hard to believe that. The advice was wait at LEAST 2 years before any commitment.

Heh.  I took the (vinny's) point as being a logical inference to take things naturally, unpressured, unrushed, and not necessarily a set in stone time frame to be pontificated in some idiotic declaration during first contact.. "Hey there hotness, I'm daveman and the two year K timer begins now... unless, of course, you really are this hot in person in which case my blood will coalesce in another area causing Kamnesia and Kommon sensory deception (Ksd)..."

Many relationship experts do suggest that the neighborhood of two years is the ideal courtship period.

We married at one year and eleven months... so we obviously blew it.. 

I still love the humor

Thank you thank you...