What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[BillyB]

Why hasn't Putin invaded BillyB? Is it because he is such a nice guy?

A lot of people have already stated their belief Putin has invaded. If you're talking large scale invasion, I've already mention Putin is preferring civil war with the east winning and handing all of Ukraine over to him.


Things in east Ukraine has not gone as smoothly as Crimea. If Putin continues unrest for years and hurting any progress a new pro West, Ukrainian government is trying to make, he'll eventually will get his civil war.

[lordtiberius]

The invasion is the best of both worlds.  No huge casualties.  No exposing how weak the Russian military is.  The gas lines are still in tact.  This is as close as a nuetron bomb as it gets.  How will he maintain the legal fiction of prosperity when his economy is contracting and Crimean supermarkets look very Soviet now?

[The Natural]

The invasion is the best of both worlds.  No huge casualties.  No exposing how weak the Russian military is.  The gas lines are still in tact.  This is as close as a nuetron bomb as it gets.  How will he maintain the legal fiction of prosperity when his economy is contracting and Crimean supermarkets look very Soviet now?

When Russia and China, along with the other BRIICS countries decides to ditch the US dollar in their trade, then let's see whoose economy will contract. That would be goodbye to the free rides of having the world currency and mindless borrowing and spending on the savings of the Asians. I don't know if that is what will happen, but as the west have declared economic war on Russia, it's a pretty good guess.

[fathertime]

When Russia and China, along with the other BRIICS countries decides to ditch the US dollar in their trade, then let's see whoose economy will contract. That would be goodbye to the free rides of having the world currency and mindless borrowing and spending on the savings of the Asians. I don't know if that is what will happen, but as the west have declared economic war on Russia, it's a pretty good guess.

As far as I’m concerned there is no good reason for the USA to have such high profile involvement.  This ordeal is Ukraine’s and Russia’s issue.  Life has been pretty darn good here in the USA overall, and for us to get hyper involved in places like Ukraine/Syria/Libya. Etc etc…is not necessary.  Al though some would disagree, I believe we are pretty vulnerable…we borrow a lot of money to finance a high on the hog lifestyle…People are used to that here now, but things can change, and I believe decisions to get so involved in foreign affairs (in faraway regions) are going to hasten our downfall…there is no rule that says we HAVE to stick our snout in the world’s issues...a majority of the regular people here don’t want it but that doesn’t seem to matter to our ‘representatives’. 


  We should slow down/if not stop borrowing so much money…if tax revenues aren’t  enough then stop spending more than is brought in..if that doesn’t work then increase taxes slightly. ..but NOBODY wants to see our taxes raised so we can go interfere in conflicts around the world.   
Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

The minute Rohrbacker said Yanukovych was legitimately elected I knew this had to be Russian propaganda.

Ha-hah

It's almost hysterical why the manner some of those dialogue were exchanged. I particularly liked how Nuland remarked that the investigation is forthcoming on the Kiev massacre but in the meantime the US will go ahead and pump billions into our new colony for now.

Repayment? Why worry. That's the purpose of placing Hunter & Archer @ Burisma for.

I suppose the right sector is far less of a threat to our interest in Ukraine than Russia. After all, that party doesn't have military capability compared to Russia and having them around is better than hiring  contractors we normally do.

[LAman]

This is the only way Ukraine maintains its current borders.....from within

http://www.upi.com/top_news/world-news/2014/05/16/thousands-of-miners-and-steelworkers-seize-mariupol-ukraine-from-separatists/7761400252244/


we'll see where this goes.....

[lordtiberius]

Oh how these Americans lie and lie and lie . . .

Eastern Ukrainian Coal Miner recounts how separatist thugs treated him in captivity:
http://www.rferl.mobi/a/eastern-ukraine-torture-weapon/25387572.html

[JayH]

Eastern Ukraine Oligarchs Seek to Avoid Economic Disaster
Some more interesting aspects arising as Ukrainians have gradually fought back and are now getting organised  to reject the Russian promoted separatists.Under the guise of politics the thugs have robbed,beaten,terrorised  ,murdered people etc--the  HUGE MAJORITY want a stable Ukraine-- and not with Russian meddling and interference. The t6terrorists are now on the back foot as Putin has not had the guts to carry on with a more obvious invasion that would have let to larger scale confrontation with the west.
The elections coming up will confirm the extent of the rejection of Putin & Russian ambitions in Ukraine as a whole.

http://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/metinvest-patrol-mariupol-348264.html

http://www.voanews.com/content/eastern-ukraine-oligarchs-seek-to-avoid-economic-disaster/1916873.html

"In a potentially seismic shift in the power dynamics of eastern Ukraine, business leaders — claiming that secession would be economically disastrous for the region — this week began mobilizing industrial workers to rise up against armed separatists here and in a handful of other cities."
 


"Separatists who had met with the steel companies tried to win over the crowd, with mixed results.
 
An unidentified separatist leader addressed the crowd, saying, “The sense of this memorandum is to request the authorities in Kyiv to pull their troops back from the borders of Mariupol and to dismantle the roadblocks." 
 
“Don't lie to people, don't try to trick us,” a female observer shouted back in Russian.
 
“Resign! Resign!" the crowd chanted to the separatist leader."

[lordtiberius]

JayH, you are turning into a real patriot.  Who would have thought?

Scuttlebutt is that Ukraine will arm its citizens and put Strelkov's Nazis in the graveyard where they belong.

[fathertime]

Eastern Ukraine Oligarchs Seek to Avoid Economic Disaster
Some more interesting aspects arising as Ukrainians have gradually fought back and are now getting organised  to reject the Russian promoted separatists.Under the guise of politics the thugs have robbed,beaten,terrorised  ,murdered people etc--the  HUGE MAJORITY want a stable Ukraine-- and not with Russian meddling and interference. The t6terrorists are now on the back foot as Putin has not had the guts to carry on with a more obvious invasion that would have let to larger scale confrontation with the west.
 

"

Hahaha, a couple months ago when discussing the ‘pending’ Russian invasion after Crimea, a poster stated that when the invasion DIDN’T happen, people would then start pounding their chest and begin proudly declaring those ‘crippling’ western sanctions were just too much for Russia to contemplate…..Reality check though is that Russia did not intend on invading!…if they did they would have... they could have rolled through E. Ukraine with little military resistance….of course there was no point though as it would just be a big headache afterwords, as I would think most E. Ukrainians would be happy with more autonomy and not an occupying force…


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

Huh?  You do know Russians have invaded East Ukraine, right?

[BillyB]

Eastern Ukraine Oligarchs Seek to Avoid Economic Disaster

In Putin's Russia, economic disaster seeks Ukrainian Oligarchs. If you're not a pro Russian presidential candidate, your assets gets seized.


http://un1.tv/business/bz1705ua10-poroshenko-roshen-air.html

[Faux Pas]

When Russia and China, along with the other BRIICS countries decides to ditch the US dollar in their trade, then let's see whoose economy will contract. That would be goodbye to the free rides of having the world currency and mindless borrowing and spending on the savings of the Asians. I don't know if that is what will happen, but as the west have declared economic war on Russia, it's a pretty good guess.

It ain't going to happen there my bruddah. Seems how easily we forget. Do you recall the economic crisis of "08"? A fart of the U.S. economy rippled completely around the world. That should tell you how entrenched and reliant the world economies are to the dollar. They can't ditch it. It's the only thing holding their own economies together. When the dollar dies, it all dies, the world's economy. There is no one immune.  Futhermore, that is likely to happen in our own lifetime IMHO.

[The Natural]

It ain't going to happen there my bruddah. Seems how easily we forget. Do you recall the economic crisis of "08"? A fart of the U.S. economy rippled completely around the world. That should tell you how entrenched and reliant the world economies are to the dollar. They can't ditch it. It's the only thing holding their own economies together. When the dollar dies, it all dies, the world's economy. There is no one immune.  Futhermore, that is likely to happen in our own lifetime IMHO.

Well, several US Economist disagrees With you that the dollar will have forever life. It WILL crash and burn like all other paper currencies backed by nothing in history did. Only question is when. We don't know when or what exactly will happen, that's what makes it interesting to live in these times. I Guess there's a reason for Russia and China to spend dollars aquiring gold. Maybe we will see a gold backed New currency some years from now? You don't think that will happen?

[lordtiberius]

The problem with gold backed economies is that they aren't forgiving to monkey business.  Politicians can't manipulate them as easily.  So this Sino-Rusky doubloon is DOA.

[CanadaMan]

When Russia and China, along with the other BRIICS countries decides to ditch the US dollar in their trade, then let's see whoose economy will contract.

It ain't going to happen there my bruddah. Seems how easily we forget. Do you recall the economic crisis of "08"? A fart of the U.S. economy rippled completely around the world. That should tell you how entrenched and reliant the world economies are to the dollar. They can't ditch it. It's the only thing holding their own economies together. When the dollar dies, it all dies, the world's economy. There is no one immune.  Futhermore, that is likely to happen in our own lifetime IMHO.

Well, several US Economist disagrees With you that the dollar will have forever life. It WILL crash and burn like all other paper currencies backed by nothing in history did. Only question is when.

Natural, you didn't read FP's post carefully.
He didn't say the US dollar won't crash (in fact he said it would, within our lifetime).
He said that the BRIC countries won't be ditching the US dollar before it crashes.

[Faux Pas]

Well, several US Economist disagrees With you that the dollar will have forever life. It WILL crash and burn like all other paper currencies backed by nothing in history did. Only question is when. We don't know when or what exactly will happen, that's what makes it interesting to live in these times. I Guess there's a reason for Russia and China to spend dollars aquiring gold. Maybe we will see a gold backed New currency some years from now? You don't think that will happen?

Canadaman is right. Reread my previous post. The dollar is the strongest of the world's currency and it is mighty unstable. Any country that drops the dollar as the reserve will see their own currency and economy collapse in a matter of months. This isn't an American thing Roy. International banking cartels have set it up in this manner and for a reason. Gold backed currencies don't fuel economies. It's all about the credit. Less than 1% of the worlds population control 99% of the wealth (notice I didn't say own). You seem to be whipping yourself up in a froth over the evil U.S. government and the evil dollar, it's misdirected, IMHO.

[The Natural]

You seem to be whipping yourself up in a froth over the evil U.S. government and the evil dollar, it's misdirected, IMHO.

I'm not whipping myself up to anything, just stating my opinion, as you do yours. It's kind of you to notice I talk about the evils of the US government, not the people. Many have a problem distinguishing between the two.
I don't think the dollar is evil. How can a currency be evil, it's just an instrument. It's quite possible that the fall of the dollar lead to the fall of all other currencies and when that happens I believe People will demand something else. Won't happen overnight of course, but I believe something big will happen eventually in the years to come. We will see. Best not to brush away all theories that does not support the status quo.

[lordtiberius]

I agree.  What the government (republicrats and demmicans) is doing to the dollar is evil.  And people have a right and will get an alternative currency.

[Maxx2]

Gold backed currencies don't fuel economies. It's all about the credit.

They used to until a debt based monetary system was introduced a 101 years ago. It's been wars, debt and inflation ever since. However it is not that simple is it? That is bringing about a gold standard to back the dollar and other currencies. Keynesian economic policy would have to be shelved. It would be he who has the gold rules. United States claims it has most of the worlds gold reserves but they will not allow any outside agency to audit it. The German government put into a request back in 2012 to audit their gold held by the Fed but were refused. Why? Meanwhile the Chinese and Russian governments buy gold to add to their reserves. Why? What do their economists know that we here in America don't? Are they being silly or what? Why did Germany request 10% of it's gold holdings of 3500 tons held by the Fed be returned after their audit request was refused? Why did the Fed say it would take them 10 years?  Why has only 5 tons of gold been returned to Germany in the last year and a half? What happened to Qaudaffi's 144 tons of gold? 


Being in the gold business for the past 34 years I keep up on gold news. 

[Faux Pas]

I'm not whipping myself up to anything, just stating my opinion, as you do yours. It's kind of you to notice I talk about the evils of the US government, not the people. Many have a problem distinguishing between the two.
I don't think the dollar is evil. How can a currency be evil, it's just an instrument. It's quite possible that the fall of the dollar lead to the fall of all other currencies and when that happens I believe People will demand something else. Won't happen overnight of course, but I believe something big will happen eventually in the years to come. We will see. Best not to brush away all theories that does not support the status quo.

Based on some of your earlier remarks concerning the dollar getting dropped as the reserve. If it's not the dollar, which is highly unlikely, it'll be another one and it will be manipulated in the same way. IMHO, we are well beyond demanding something else. The one world currency is the answer to the problems you've been describing here and in fact to most of the currency and distributions ills of the world. Be careful what you ask for.

[Faux Pas]

They used to until a debt based monetary system was introduced a 101 years ago. It's been wars, debt and inflation ever since. However it is not that simple is it? That is bringing about a gold standard to back the dollar and other currencies. Keynesian economic policy would have to be shelved. It would be he who has the gold rules. United States claims it has most of the worlds gold reserves but they will not allow any outside agency to audit it. The German government put into a request back in 2012 to audit their gold held by the Fed but were refused. Why? Meanwhile the Chinese and Russian governments buy gold to add to their reserves. Why? What do their economists know that we here in America don't? Are they being silly or what? Why did Germany request 10% of it's gold holdings of 3500 tons held by the Fed be returned after their audit request was refused? Why did the Fed say it would take them 10 years?  Why has only 5 tons of gold been returned to Germany in the last year and a half? What happened to Qaudaffi's 144 tons of gold? 


Being in the gold business for the past 34 years I keep up on gold news.

That all depends on which conspiracy theory one wishes to believe.

You do understand that the "Federal Reserve" is just a private institution that controls the money and banking of the entire country, right?

[Maxx2]

That all depends on which conspiracy theory one wishes to believe.

You do understand that the "Federal Reserve" is just a private institution that controls the money and banking of the entire country, right?

About the Fed. Sure I do FP. I've known about that for years. "Conspiracy Theorist" and silly sounding words like truther and birther are Orwellian stop think words. 

[BC]

The concept of a strong currency is misleading.  Remember that the EUR was worth less than a dollar when it came into play. Went to 1.20 then 1.30 and now it hangs around the 1.40 level.  Considering the size of the economies are roughly equal why is that?  Which is truly 'stronger'?

The US has a long term strategy of keeping the value of the USD low in order to try and not only fight the financial crisis but to also try and combat trade deficit levels, almost impossible considering that the US economy is driven by services and not exports as is the case with larger EU economies such as Germany.  This 'bubble' may one day burst if for some reason the USD is forced to show it's true worth.

I believe it's true worth is within parity or slightly less than EUR, somewhere within the 1 to 1.2 level.

China is probably the largest factor involved, from diversifying their currency holdings, mostly in the direction of EUR instead of USD.

As with any bubble, it will burst.  The only variable is when.

[Faux Pas]

The concept of a strong currency is misleading.  Remember that the EUR was worth less than a dollar when it came into play. Went to 1.20 then 1.30 and now it hangs around the 1.40 level.  Considering the size of the economies are roughly equal why is that?  Which is truly 'stronger'?

The US has a long term strategy of keeping the value of the USD low in order to try and not only fight the financial crisis but to also try and combat trade deficit levels, almost impossible considering that the US economy is driven by services and not exports as is the case with larger EU economies such as Germany.  This 'bubble' may one day burst if for some reason the USD is forced to show it's true worth.

I believe it's true worth is within parity or slightly less than EUR, somewhere within the 1 to 1.2 level.

China is probably the largest factor involved, from diversifying their currency holdings, mostly in the direction of EUR instead of USD.

As with any bubble, it will burst.  The only variable is when.

That's the easy one, when the international cartels decide to quit propping it up. They (the international cartels) do not oppose each other and they work in unison. It has little to nothing to do with popular demand or support. These are folks who start wars for no other reason than to finance them.