A Sad Farwell to Russia

[jone]

Those of you who know me, know that I had holdings in the Golden Ring area of Russia.  These holdings were not significant, by any great standard, but were significant enough to influence the local economy which lacks any capital investment.

I prided myself in the ability to do business in Russia.  I made friends with people who made things work in the area and even knew some of the local FSB characters.  I sent my son to live there for a summer and he came back almost fluent in the Russian language having worked on our investments.

I, for one, cannot stomach the methodical raping of Ukraine that is currently ongoing by Russia.  My point of view, on this forum, is well known, even though I do not have a dog in the hunt, so to speak. 

As a result of this pillaging ongoing, I have completely cashed out of Russia.  I did so at a significant loss when compared to the highest equity position I held.  But it is better to hold money that will not be devalued as the financial prospects for Russia continue to trend downward and the likelihood of seizure of my assets continues to go upward.  I will not relay how I was able to liquidate my holdings there.

To my Russian friends, I am sorry.  But the butcher's bill is yet to be paid.  I will not be waiting around to pick up the tab.

[ML]

I commend you for showing some ethical and moral character.

Regardless of a lack of any obligating treaties, etc., each country and each individual has to know what is right and what is wrong and be willing to take appropriate action; even if it costs money, etc.

Lech Walsea has called for Putin to be tried in some  international court.

These people are despicable to the core and we should all quit trying to indicate otherwise.  Lying and dishonorable actions are part of their culture . . . and they are proud of it.

[LAman]

I commend you for showing some ethical and moral character.

Regardless of a lack of any obligating treaties, etc., each country and each individual has to know what is right and what is wrong and be willing to take appropriate action; even if it costs money, etc.

Lech Walsea has called for Putin to be tried in some  international court.

These people are despicable to the core and we should all quit trying to indicate otherwise.  Lying and dishonorable actions are part of their culture . . . and they are proud of it.

I would agree if Jone had not mentioned his 'substantial loss' in investments, half his post was about money.

[Maxx2]

I, for one, cannot stomach the methodical raping of Ukraine that is currently ongoing by Russia.

I can't stand the raping of the entrepreneur here in America. After 24 years of self employment I am making this my last year in business. I feel your pain jone. 

[Dewed]

well.. I'll assume he is human, and as such he does need to eat.

I can relate to that and I do personally appreciate the sacrifice. To point out he took a bullet for the team is not unreasonable behavior.

The world is telling Putin to knock it off and every investor that bails on Russian holdings is another voice in an extremely large and loud choir. 

and Maxx..  I too have had it  I've made numerous people rich and I have a worthless 401k and a coffee mug to show for it... perhaps we can swap Top Ramen recipes   

[BillyB]

  I've made numerous people rich

Where have you been all my life?


Besides those who stop investing in Russia due to their moral beliefs, some will stop simply because it's risky to invest there now. As jone mentioned, seizure of assets are a real possibility in uncertain times.

[jone]

Hey, I am not taking one for the team.  My own self interest drives me.  But I also feel that someone should make known their disapproval.  If it were strictly a business decision, I would have made it. 

Russia has always been disdainful of Western investors.  It is to the point where some government officials smile when something illicit happens to an individual from the West.   I cannot imagine a fair investing climate for the immediate future.  And I know that I am not the only one who feels this way.

[Maxx2]

Russia has always been disdainful of Western investors.  It is to the point where some government officials smile when something illicit happens to an individual from the West.   I cannot imagine a fair investing climate for the immediate future.  And I know that I am not the only one who feels this way.

Reminds me I told a RM about the benefit of Americans spending money in Russia for Russia. He said Russians don't think that way. I should have probed deeper on why this was so. They are strange people when it comes to business. The "I Win if you Lose" model of doing business is the best explanation of why they think the way they do.

[Dewed]

Where have you been all my life?

I've been here all along.. well since about 2006-07 as a recluse initially.      Do you have a website that needs promoting, moving, tweaking or it's conversion mechanisms improved? .. since this isn't the services section of the forum, that is a rhetorical question.

[GQBlues]

If by now the world doesn't yet understand that when it comes to the interest of the USA, nothing is ever sacred. Not human lives, whether it be its citizens or another since they're simply pawns for a higher stake$.

Certainly not any semblance of any democratic process they trumpet to support. At least not if it gets in the way of the almighty $dollar$.

Here's Victoria Nuland, giddy for having Chevron successfully sign a 10 billion dollar deal with Ukraine. Of course, knowing a pro-Russian puppet president is currently ruling Ukraine at the time, what's the next best logical step? A revolution you say? Okay...one revolution coming up! Let's make this one *bloody rare* for the effect so we can justify sitting and anointing someone else we know we can like.





It isn't difficult to understand why the EU/USA, or even the IMF, are just as giddy to lend a helping hand (i.e. billion dollar loans) out of the kindness of their collective black hearts. No sireee. With a potential gas source equal to 25% of the estimated global deposit, Ukraine is a political *pinata* waiting to happen.

Heck, even before the Crimea hold-over took place, the EU/US were already engaged in jousting and jockeying on who gets to pass 'Go' all the way to the bank.



So there you have it, folks. We can all scrutinized Putin and Russia for their silly *reaction* to an unconstitutional and illegal overthrow of a legitimate government and sovereignty in Ukraine, but nary a word for the agents of provocateurs who are poise to cause great harm to the people of Ukraine. Tit for Tat and have someone else pay for all of that.

So, now we have a mess in Ukraine, or soon to be a mess. Maybe some or many people will die in this political pinata because someone else would love to grab the billions out of that country's resource. I shouldn't really be surprised Americans are buying into the whole Russia is the evil empire, after all, we all generally bought into the whole *freedom and liberty and justice for all* talk, no?

[Belvis]

Speculative capital flows out in panic in times of instability.  Not bad for me, I've invested part of my personal holdings in Russian stock market 3 weeks ago. 15% up so far and I feel pressure to cash out the profit.

[jone]

Congratulations, Belvis, for your success.  Historically, my rate of return on my investments in Russia was over 20% per annum over a goodly period of time.  I do not see my experience in Russia as a bad one.  Just one that had to end.

[pokerintherear]

So there you have it, folks. We can all scrutinized Putin and Russia for their silly *reaction* to an unconstitutional and illegal overthrow of a legitimate government and sovereignty in Ukraine, but nary a word for the agents of provocateurs who are poise to cause great harm to the people of Ukraine. Tit for Tat and have someone else pay for all of that.

So, now we have a mess in Ukraine, or soon to be a mess. Maybe some or many people will die in this political pinata because someone else would love to grab the billions out of that country's resource. I shouldn't really be surprised Americans are buying into the whole Russia is the evil empire, after all, we all generally bought into the whole *freedom and liberty and justice for all* talk, no?

Uhmm....... This is where you go off the rails and over the cliff along with people of the same thought process. In particular the unconstitutional part.

It depends on the constitution we are talking about. I do not buy into the opinion that it was unconstitutional. Most have provisions dealing with corruption and changing of the document for the benefit of giving big chunks of power to a small group of politicians.

Then the next argument is you would never see this in Washington, DC. I disagree. We are half way there. Many say no way. But this comes from the sheep in the population. They look at it from their feelings. They can't see standing up for something they believe in especially if it puts them in danger. They can never see fighting against a corrupt government. Its easy just bend over and all is well. Oh...... the dignity. But there is more than the meek in the US.

You do know the US constitution is written in a way that all the power starts with the citizens and they decide how much to give the government? A large percentage of the documents deal with this topic because all know ( except Putin supporters) out of control government leads to totalitarian rule. There are many ways for the people to legally take the power back even if it requires force and over throw.

Ahhhhh........ but Poker there is no way the people can do this in Washington, DC like Ukraine without the military gunning them down. This is where you don't understand the people who are not sheep. All it would take is for the over zealous officials to change a part of the constitution (without ratification by the states) ( like in Ukraine) and watch what happens. The Mall will fill up with the most people Washington has ever seen and the change will be reversed and the thugs run out of the city. The Military will stand by and watch. Why? They are not sheep and knows what needs to happen to keep the Constitutional Republic in place.

By the way, I know this will be hard for you to believe, but the citizens would decimate the US Military unless someone presses the red button and we all go up in a ball of fire. If your interest in how please ask. Because this seems impossible to many people.

Rambling like the Blues dude.

[fathertime]

That Victoria nuland is another fine example of a hypocrite...she gives that long speech on how wonderful it would be for Ukraine to move towards Europe...then outta the other side of her mouth she says fvuk Europe when she thinks nobody is listening.


I find it hard to trust any of these hypocrites.  Whatever we think is going on, it is probably something else.


Fathertime! 

[Slumba]

At some point you come to realize that representing the American people and doing what is best for the actual citizens of the USA, is the lowest priority item on the to-do list of anyone in Washington DC.

Read "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler, it is a quick read.

[GQBlues]

Uhmm....... This is where you go off the rails and over the cliff along with people of the same thought process. In particular the unconstitutional part.

It depends on the constitution we are talking about. I do not buy into the opinion that it was unconstitutional. Most have provisions dealing with corruption and changing of the document for the benefit of giving big chunks of power to a small group of politicians....

...Current acting President is the current Chairman of the Ukrainian Parliament Oleksandr Turchynov after the Ukrainian Parliament ousted Viktor Yanukovych from this office on 21 February 2014.^[1] It is unclear if the removal of Yanukovych was legal because Yanukovych had not signed the bills that would restore the Constitution as it was between 2004 and 2010.^[2] The constitutional guidelines provide for a review of the case by Ukraine's Constitutional Court and a three-fourths majority vote by parliament (338 MPs).^[2] The decisions to remove Yanukovych was supported by 328 MPs.^[3] Yanukovych still claims to be "the legitimate head of the Ukrainian state elected in a free vote by Ukrainian citizens".^[4]..

^{C'mon Poke, I hope you'd send these guys a correction so us uninformed may think otherwise.}

^...Then the next argument is you would never see this in Washington, DC. I disagree. We are half way there. Many say no way. But this comes from the sheep in the population. They look at it from their feelings. They can't see standing up for something they believe in especially if it puts them in danger. They can never see fighting against a corrupt government. Its easy just bend over and all is well. Oh...... the dignity. But there is more than the meek in the US.

You do know the US constitution is written in a way that all the power starts with the citizens and they decide how much to give the government? A large percentage of the documents deal with this topic because all know ( except Putin supporters) out of control government leads to totalitarian rule. There are many ways for the people to legally take the power back even if it requires force and over throw.

Ahhhhh........ but Poker there is no way the people can do this in Washington, DC like Ukraine without the military gunning them down. This is where you don't understand the people who are not sheep. All it would take is for the over zealous officials to change a part of the constitution (without ratification by the states) ( like in Ukraine) and watch what happens. The Mall will fill up with the most people Washington has ever seen and the change will be reversed and the thugs run out of the city. The Military will stand by and watch. Why? They are not sheep and knows what needs to happen to keep the Constitutional Republic in place.

By the way, I know this will be hard for you to believe, but the citizens would decimate the US Military unless someone presses the red button and we all go up in a ball of fire. If your interest in how please ask. Because this seems impossible to many people.

Rambling like the Blues dude.

Who actually stated the 2nd argument you just claimed was said?

[Dewed]

. . . .
I find it hard to trust any of these hypocrites.  Whatever we think is going on, it is probably something else.
. . . .
Fathertime!

I take that stance for all politicians everywhere including my own country. Even the honest ones keep secrets in the interests of.. something, like national and/or economic security. Making the honest ones almost indistinguishable from the dishonest ones

[cojack]

I pulled out of Ukraine completely following Yanukovych's win in 2010.  I know this feeling well.  I don't regret the decision one bit.  I just hope that what Ukraine comes out of this whole mess is a Ukraine worth investing in.  There are a lot of talented hard workers there that I just can't reach because of government meddling.

[pokerintherear]

Who actually stated the 2nd argument you just claimed was said?

So I don't have to post a rebuttal. Its the justification argument of what happened in Kiev. Forum dwellers always come full circle and say "This would not have happened in DC. They would have been dispersed by the military in short time"

You must compare nuts to nuts. They did not start protesting because of some nickel dime legislation like a healthcare law.

 

[Gator]

jone, it sounds like a good business decision to sell out, even at a loss.  So you and BP can now share some juicy  stories about doing business with Russians.   BP needed the cash for the Gulf spill, but there was more to their exit than cash flow squeeze.  Supposedly BP's executives were having trouble getting visas and  oligarch investors were hinting that an American CEO had violated Russian law al la Mikhail Khodorkovsky.   

Why invest in a country where the rule of law can be bent and twisted? 

[XMan]

jone, it sounds like a good business decision to sell out, even at a loss.  So you and BP can now share some juicy  stories about doing business with Russians.   BP needed the cash for the Gulf spill, but there was more to their exit than cash flow squeeze.  Supposedly BP's executives were having trouble getting visas and  oligarch investors were hinting that an American CEO had violated Russian law al la Mikhail Khodorkovsky.   

Why invest in a country where the rule of law can be bent and twisted?

+1,000

[jone]

Well, for me it is a sad farewell.  I have treasured my Russian friends.  10-12 years ago, everything seemed possible.  The Governor of the oblast that we were doing our primary business with was very ethical and we had a chance to grow.  That Governor is long gone and the successive governors have become less and less objective and friendly. 

We have monitored attitudes in the newspapers, from Russian media outlets and also on the social networks.  The average Russian attitude towards Western friendship has been sullied.  Even my business associates, who remain, disguise their ownership in different businesses.  Everyone is scared right now.  And that is not the way I choose to run my life.

I don't know how many years I have left on this planet, but I choose to do things that make me happy, not worried.    There may be another time, in my lifetime, to reunite friendships and explore possibilities.  But that time is now now, not here.

These are sad times in Eastern Europe.  All for a single man's desire to play emperor.  He wants to reunite the Russian empire, as best as he can.  The fierce nationalism that he is creating, both for and against, are attitudes that create hatred and strife.

I read Mendy's column today.  He openly questions whether the NATO nations might just give Ukraine their nuclear weapons back to give Russia pause as to how much they really want to slice up their neighbor's country.

http://russianreport.wordpress.com/

It is posted above.

Strong hearts and plunge ahead everyone!

[GQBlues]

So I don't have to post a rebuttal. Its the justification argument of what happened in Kiev. Forum dwellers always come full circle and say "This would not have happened in DC. They would have been dispersed by the military in short time"...

Not quite sure what your point here since nothing in my post you spoke *of me coming off the rails* even remotely implied that *this can never happen in DC*. I couldn't give a rat's arse what DC can and cannot do to be perfectly honest with you as it has nothing to do with my post.

...You must compare nuts to nuts. They did not start protesting because of some nickel dime legislation like a healthcare law....

LOL. That's ironic now isn't it? You definitely read something else as nowhere in my post inferred one iota about the 'healthcare' law.

I refute your statement that what Ukraine did was illegal and unconstitutional based on the citation I posted. Again, I ask you, where exactly is it in Ukraine's constitution allowed for them to oust the president short of the three-fourths majority votes (338) by the parliamentary? If you have the citation, please provide it here so I may read it.

Uhmm....... This is where you go off the rails and over the cliff along with people of the same thought process. In particular the unconstitutional part.

It depends on the constitution we are talking about. I do not buy into the opinion that it was unconstitutional. Most have provisions dealing with corruption and changing of the document for the benefit of giving big chunks of power to a small group of politicians....

[GQBlues]

btw, who is ~Farwell~ and why is it (he/she) sad?

[BillyB]

what Ukraine did was illegal and unconstitutional based on the citation I posted.

GQ, you keep talking about problems. What is your solution? Reinstate Yanukovych who won a rigged re-election and rigged prior elections? Upon re-election he got the previous constitution voided and gave himself more power. Stole billions of dollars from citizens. He allowed more foreign interest and accepted bribes to run Ukraine than what the protestors had to encourage them to protest. He tried to enlist the Ukrainian military to gun down it's own citizens. He fired the chief of the military for refusing. He didn't show up for work by fleeing the country. Yanukovych wasn't elected legitimately, he was convicted in the past and still is a criminal and you act like what happened to him wasn't fair and Ukrainians don't have the right to be pissed and only protested for the almighty dollar. Bad leaders of the world should have these things done to them more often.