The Propaganda War

[JayH]

Where is the regret when young Russian men are killed by those pro US involvement?  Where is the regret when civilians may suffer in Russia?  Just hand-clapping (by certain pro-Ukrainian posters)   for that...you don't see the 'pro Russian's' clapping their hands like that so I guess they have a little more empathy!


Fathertime!

How big an idiot are you!! Your post just makes it clear to everyone,( everyone with at least 1% of a brain) !!

[Anotherkiwi]

Where is the regret when young Russian men are killed by those pro US involvement?

As there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, the point is moot.  You can't kill people who aren't there - ask Putin.

Where is the regret when civilians may suffer in Russia?

What suffering?  I don't see any Russian cities being shelled, or having rockets launched at them.  As Doll and others have pointed out, there are no problems with ordinary life in Russia - no rising costs, no shortages of goods - so how can they suffer if nothing has changed?

Just hand-clapping (by certain pro-Ukrainian posters)   for that...you don't see the 'pro Russian's' clapping their hands like that so I guess they have a little more empathy!

Utter bollocks.

[Taz]

The sanctions were designed to PUNISH Russia. That means they did something WRONG. So I am not going to feel very sorry for someone when they are punished for doing something wrong as long as the punishment fits the crime so to speak.

Do I think the limited sanctions that are in place are adequate punishment for Russia in light of their continued invasion of Ukraine? Hell no! The price for Putin has to be so high that he will stop the invasion of Ukraine, stop supplying the so called "rebels" and cease all actions to destabilize Ukraine in any way, shape or form.

At the same time, I don't want the US involved any more than to support Ukraine in their defense against Russia and give them the loans they need to put their country back in shape. It is the least we can do as we promised to protect them in the Budapest Memorandum. We have a moral responsibility to help Ukraine now.

Do I want to see Russian soldiers die needlessly, no but Putin is sending them to die needlessly. For the record, I have Russian friends who are either current or former military. For the most part, the older ones with experience, don't want to be there. The younger ones are more affected by the propaganda. I realize now that the only way Putin will stop invading Ukraine is if there are massive casualties amongst his soldiers. Russia started and fomented this unrest. As a result, they should be the ones who are punished and pay the price.

On one glimmer of hope, a friend of mine in Siberia wrote me. She finally is starting to get it. The light bulb finally went off in her head so to speak. She has started reading the links I have sent her and she sees the disconnect between what is reality and the mush she is being fed. She was in Kiev last year and never felt threatened by any Ukrainians any where she went which is the opposite of the spin Russia was putting on it.

[Taz]

Privet Kukla - I fixed the link for you. I anxiously await your response to the execution of Ukrainian soldiers that were prisoners of war by Russian soldiers that was clearly in violation of the rules of war.

[fathertime]

How big an idiot are you!! Your post just makes it clear to everyone,( everyone with at least 1% of a brain) !!

tsk tsk tsk...name calling as usual!   It appears that much of the planet must have 1% of a brain then, you don't qualify.   


Fathertime!

[fathertime]

As there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, the point is moot.  You can't kill people who aren't there - ask Putin.

What suffering?  I don't see any Russian cities being shelled, or having rockets launched at them.  As Doll and others have pointed out, there are no problems with ordinary life in Russia - no rising costs, no shortages of goods - so how can they suffer if nothing has changed?


Utter bollocks.

What are you griping about now?  It seems clear that Russians, and pro-Russian's in Ukraine are being killed and suffering...But that is a good thing according to some!   


Fathertime!

[Taz]

I think we can all agree FT that nobody wants to see any loss of life. At least in the case of proof of Russian soldiers needlessly dying in UKraine, then at least the purpose it might serve (if they die in vast enough quantities to not just be on holiday), is provide ireffutable proof to the world that Putin is clearly lying and must be stopped.

I don't want to see another person die in this war. It could all stop in a week if Putin would just remove his troops from Ukraine and stop supplying the terrorist that remain. Should he continue to invade Ukraine, supply the terrorists with weapons, then I am all in favor of giving Ukraine everything they need to defend themselves. If that doesn't stop Putin then a large, international force parked in Ukraine and ready to attack, would stop him.

[lordtiberius]

I don't blame Doll and Belvis to be honest.  Look at JayH's and LT goof ball posts.  Who wants to grouped in with guys that post nonsense all over this forum.  I'm attempted to fake what I believe just to distance myself from these guys.

Ah yes, here it begins . . .

[lordtiberius]

Where is the regret when young Russian men are killed by those pro US involvement?  Where is the regret when civilians may suffer in Russia?  Just hand-clapping (by certain pro-Ukrainian posters)   for that...you don't see the 'pro Russian's' clapping their hands like that so I guess they have a little more empathy!


Fathertime!

Lol

Show me the bodies killed by MREs

[lordtiberius]

I think we can all agree FT that nobody wants to see any loss of life.

Yeah, Doll, Belvis, lFU, and FT want to see dead Ukrainians.  Steamer is indifferent to evil. Jone doesn't want to get involved.  But hey, if that's agreement.  I agree.

[fathertime]

I think we can all agree FT that nobody wants to see any loss of life. At least in the case of proof of Russian soldiers needlessly dying in UKraine, then at least the purpose it might serve (if they die in vast enough quantities to not just be on holiday), is provide ireffutable proof to the world that Putin is clearly lying and must be stopped.

I don't want to see another person die in this war. It could all stop in a week if Putin would just remove his troops from Ukraine and stop supplying the terrorist that remain. Should he continue to invade Ukraine, supply the terrorists with weapons, then I am all in favor of giving Ukraine everything they need to defend themselves. If that doesn't stop Putin then a large, international force parked in Ukraine and ready to attack, would stop him.

Well Taz there are probably a few different ways this crisis could end.  I think Russia suddenly picking up and leaving is highly unlikely, even there was a larger counter-force in place.  That may be part of the reasoning why western nations have decided not to bother sending any forces in.  Keeping in mind there are also ways this crisis could escalate.  The world continues to spin despite there being battles all over the globe on a daily basis, Ukraine being one of many...


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Yeah, Doll, Belvis, lFU, and FT want to see dead Ukrainians.  Steamer is indifferent to evil. Jone doesn't want to get involved.  But hey, if that's agreement.  I agree.

Don't forget that LT wants to see EVERYBODY dead!   


Fathertime! 

[Taz]

Putin will only stop by enough force is shown. That has been his MO all along. While there are issues all over the world, that doesn't mean that this one doesn't matter or is any less important. This actually has the ability to blow up into a major conflict.

I am strongly against ISIS (ISIL, Daesh or whatever the hell to call them) as well as Boko Haram. If the world unites against the evil, it can be stopped. Putin is part of that evil wave in the world that needs to be stopped. The sooner the better. Better to eradicate a cancer in its early stages before it is at stage 4 and everything is lost...

[lordtiberius]

Don't forget that LT wants to see EVERYBODY dead!   :D


Fathertime!

Lol

The Novorossiya TOS clause

[lordtiberius]

Well Taz there are probably a few different ways this crisis could end.  I think Russia suddenly picking up and leaving is highly unlikely, even there was a larger counter-force in place.  That may be part of the reasoning why western nations have decided not to bother sending any forces in.  Keeping in mind there are also ways this crisis could escalate.  The world continues to spin despite there being battles all over the globe on a daily basis, Ukraine being one of many...


Fathertime!

Hey just used Putin's nukes to threaten you Taz.

[bagalia]

Please

I think there may be a member or two who do not know what a partisan is so I will give the definition.
"One exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance. A member of a body of detached light troops making forays and harassing an enemy. A member of a guerrilla band operating within enemy lines."

Partisans do not often or cannot take prisoners. They also like to terrorize the enemy. Not much different from Vlad the Impaler who was fairly successful at turning back the enemy.

http://www.facebook.com/alexandr.gladky.9

I posted this facebook site here a few days ago. Alexander Gladky is a fairly well known Ukrainian partisan. My Facebook has a translation for all his posts but I don't know if that is usual. If you scroll down a few pages you will see the Russian General he executed. I have seen no confirmation though this story is starting to spread in social media. A partial translation below but you need to sign into facebook to see the pictures after the execution.
------------------------------------
"For Volnovakha! For the defunct 14ti year old Ukrainian!

The Donetsk group of partisans "shadows" by organizing an ambush of policemen on patrol on the outskirts of the city, I did not expect such luck. Having captured three policemen, two policemen were simply "orcs" and were shot on the spot, the third is: Peter G. Pavlov. Major General of the RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES. Operational management of the armed forces.

For his life and freedom he offered "shadows" one million dollars.
The answer "the shadow"-"To sraki your dollars. Homeland is not for sale! "

Inglorious sdohnuvšij dog of the Kremlin's * La after a brief interrogation at the photo below."
---------------------------------------

Now there are some who say there is no such general. If there is a doubt then you can also find this execution acknowledge on Strelkovs VK page. http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_40568

There were two other executions (before and after) on the site last week but cannot find then now.

[fathertime]

Hey just used Putin's nukes to threaten you Taz.

You are not making sense again.  You and McCain can participate in all the wars you want (in your own minds)


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Putin will only stop by enough force is shown. That has been his MO all along. While there are issues all over the world, that doesn't mean that this one doesn't matter or is any less important. This actually has the ability to blow up into a major conflict.

I am strongly against ISIS (ISIL, Daesh or whatever the hell to call them) as well as Boko Haram. If the world unites against the evil, it can be stopped. Putin is part of that evil wave in the world that needs to be stopped. The sooner the better. Better to eradicate a cancer in its early stages before it is at stage 4 and everything is lost...

Yes this can blow up into a major conflict, and we don't need to make that happen.  Just like many other conflicts, it has its boundaries, and I remained convinced that our participation will spread it...Sometimes things don't turn out the way we think they should and sometimes that has to be accepted, when the other options are even worse.  There isn't very much support from western nations to confront Russia militarily in Ukraine and there is a reason for that.  Although many will disagree, Ukraine itself appears divided on that issue.   This is neither the time or the place...Of course this is all my opinion, and others are obviously free to disagree. 


Fathertime!

[lordtiberius]

If that is all you got, I would say that slitting the throat of a man orchestrating mayhem and killing unarmed prisoners entrusted in your care is a difference worth noting.

[lordtiberius]

Yes this can blow up into a major conflict, and we don't need to make that happen.  Just like many other conflicts, it has its boundaries, and I remained convinced that our participation will spread it...Sometimes things don't turn out the way we think they should and sometimes that has to be accepted, when the other options are even worse.  There isn't very much support from western nations to confront Russia militarily in Ukraine and there is a reason for that.  Although many will disagree, Ukraine itself appears divided on that issue.   This is neither the time or the place...Of course this is all my opinion, and others are obviously free to disagree. 


Fathertime!

How do you suggest we get your guy to stop?

[Taz]

http://www.facebook.com/alexandr.gladky.9

I posted this facebook site here a few days ago. Alexander Gladky is a fairly well known Ukrainian partisan. My Facebook has a translation for all his posts but I don't know if that is usual. If you scroll down a few pages you will see the Russian General he executed. I have seen no confirmation though this story is starting to spread in social media. A partial translation below but you need to sign into facebook to see the pictures after the execution.
------------------------------------
"For Volnovakha! For the defunct 14ti year old Ukrainian!

The Donetsk group of partisans "shadows" by organizing an ambush of policemen on patrol on the outskirts of the city, I did not expect such luck. Having captured three policemen, two policemen were simply "orcs" and were shot on the spot, the third is: Peter G. Pavlov. Major General of the RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES. Operational management of the armed forces.

For his life and freedom he offered "shadows" one million dollars.
The answer "the shadow"-"To sraki your dollars. Homeland is not for sale! "

Inglorious sdohnuvšij dog of the Kremlin's * La after a brief interrogation at the photo below."
---------------------------------------

Now there are some who say there is no such general. If there is a doubt then you can also find this execution acknowledge on Strelkovs VK page. http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_40568

There were two other executions (before and after) on the site last week but cannot find then now.

Just for the record, I don't condone any inhumane treatment of prisoners of war or for soldiers wearing regular uniforms. I can't say I condone inhumane treatment for people that are dressed as civilians but attacking but they are not afforded the same protection and in general they put other civilians at risk.

Same goes for any uniformed or non-uniformed combatants firing weapons from a civilian area. They have put civilians in jeopardy. Most armies will try and avoid firing on heavily populated areas whereas Russia doesn't seem to give a damn, just like the Palestinians.

I too read the comments that eerily prefaced the execution of these prisoner when the Russians said they didn't need to take any more prisoners, I knew what that meant. There are quite a few offenses that rise to the level of war crimes. These people need to be hunted down and brought to justice even if they hide deep inside Russia.

[BillyB]

He may be giving lip service to Poroshenko and may have genuine feelings. 

Stalin and Hilter had feelings for each other. Later Stalin, FDR, and Churchill got cozy together. When it comes to survival, Luka will make the right choice too.

[mendeleyev]

Where is the regret when young Russian men are killed by those pro US involvement?

I've missed that, but hey, I only live and work in the region. Perhaps you'd be so kind as point it out.

[Chelseaboy]

Fathertime,

                 Can you supply evidence of young Russian men being killed by pro US involvement ?

Photos or videos of the US troops killing Russians in Ukraine would be useful,or maybe just photos or videos of lethal US weapons/military equipment being used by Ukrainians to kill those invading young Russian men you're so worried for.

[lordtiberius]

Where is that US involvement?  Show me