The Propaganda War

[Welder]

Very interesting article on corruption at the top of Ukraine's military command structure.


David Marples is a respected historian.  I believe some of this is true, although the Soviet military was historically one place where corruption did not exist at command levels.


http://opendemocracy.net/od-russia/david-marples-myroslava-uniat/ukrainian-army-is-unprepared-for-war

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

[Photo Guy]

Interesting. Thanks. That's a major problem for Ukraine's military.

[Photo Guy]

There's propaganda on both sides, but way more coming from Moscow than anywhere else. How many news sources are there out there, that are covering the conflict in Ukraine? Probably hundreds....  Of those hundreds, how many are controlled by Washington? How many news sources are there in Russia? For me, the least believable news sources are over there in Russia. So in a way, that is a lot like the height of the Cold War.

I think we should all post a list of simple truths about the conflict, both in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, and if you'd like, western Ukraine. I'll start:

1- Putin lied about protecting Russian-speakers in Crimea and also eastern Ukraine

All of my sources tell me that Russian speakers were not being singled out and abused in Crimea. What were the problems in Crimea say, 5 years ago? Anyone?
My sources do not confirm the ethnic problem, as stated by Putin.

2- Putin lied about the arrival of additional military from Russia into Ukraine.

Why did he do this? He later admitted that yes, these military convoys were from Russia. To me, it appeared as though he was trying to create the false appearance of a
counter-revolution, a revolution similar to Euromaidan, which was implemented by local citizens, rather than some military or mercenary group.

3- Top separatist commanders in Donetsk are Russian citizens.

This fact, gives the impression that Moscow is fomenting unrest and rebellion in Ukraine. Is that an unreasonable conclusion? Why?

4- Putin has stated that he wants to protect all Russian speakers.

Help me research this to discover exactly where Russian speakers need 'protection'.
Give me some specific references please. On its surface, that statement looks ...really out there. Can someone give me clarification, please. Also, what other 'speakers' need protection? French speakers? Ukrainian speakers? What exactly is Putin's thinking on this subject. I welcome insight from those who know him best. (Russians)

Okay- that's just four facts, but we'll come up with more soon...

[lordtiberius]

Hard pressed to get fact based responses from the other side.  But really what that retort would really need is one longy windy Psaki quotes with red type please.

[Photo Guy]

Reading your post has forced me to take a break from the somber realities in Ukraine. Thanks for the humor!
 

[lordtiberius]

Reading your post has forced me to take a break from the somber realities in Ukraine. Thanks for the humor!
 

Putin has lots of enemies inside Russia.  Don't believe the hype over this loser.

[Manny]

Reading your post has forced me to take a break from the somber realities in Ukraine.

We are thankful for small mercies.

On propaganda, here is an interesting article: Another Successful American Propaganda Effort

[lordtiberius]

Yeah this is all Bush's fault

[Shadow]

Yeah this is all Bush's fault

The blood is on the hands of everyone who has been happy over people fighting in this area.
Everyone who has let their blind hatred of another opinion lead to rooting for armed conflict.
Everyone who believes democracy means the largest bully wins.
The blood is on my hands, and on yours.
It can never be washed from them as long as we refuse to understand the other.

[lordtiberius]

[Photo Guy]

People are fighting for what? Interviews of terrorists tell us that they are trying to stop the fascist government in Kiev from doing horrible things to the people in eastern Ukraine. They are trying to 'protect their land'.
So, as you see, separatists are motivated by fears induced by propaganda. Just look at what the alleged fascists are doing in Slovyansk. Look at what the fascists are doing in western Ukraine. The facts show us that the new Ukraine government has been taking steps to counter separatism. The government in Kiev has offered eastern Ukrainian governments more autonomy, as you can read in Petroshenko's inaugural speech.
The goal of (Russian)mercenaries is to conduct war not peace. What concessions do they want? The blood is on the separatists hands, along with some Russian citizens and fighters from Chechnya. Isn't that obvious?

The blood is on the hands of everyone who has been happy over people fighting in this area.
Everyone who has let their blind hatred of another opinion lead to rooting for armed conflict.
Everyone who believes democracy means the largest bully wins.
The blood is on my hands, and on yours.
It can never be washed from them as long as we refuse to understand the other.

[Photo Guy]

This article supports the reality of Russia's influence, in the separatist camp:

excerpt:
'...The Russian commanders "are fleeing like rats," said Andrei, a 27-year-old rebel in Donetsk. Like other locals who have joined the separatist cause, he gave only his first name out of fear of retribution either from the rebel leadership for speaking freely or from the Ukrainian authorities for taking up arms. "We had hoped for help from Moscow, we had expected Russian troops, but Russia betrayed us," Andrei said. "Many fighters are beginning to think about their future and also are escaping to Russia."
complete article:
http://www.whdh.com/story/26230010/new-ukrainian-rebel-leader-gives-moscow-distance

[lordtiberius]

To save the village we had to destroy it

[sleepycat]

The blood is on my hands, and on yours.
It can never be washed from them as long as we refuse to understand the other.

Shadow, please explain exactly how I cause that Malaysian plane to fall out of the sky?

Or were you just trying to make one of those Martin Luther King type speeches?

[lordtiberius]

That last statement you quoted from him, makes no sense.  How exactly did I shoot these people out of the sky?  Tell me how I looted stuff from the crash site?  Tell me how I stole the black box?

[Shadow]

It is clear to see who are too blinded to understand.

[lordtiberius]

What are the Dutch going to do about this?



Nothing?

[Shadow]

What are the Dutch going to do about this?



Nothing?

Forensic investigation to hand the remains over to their families.
What else?

[Photo Guy]

An intelligent journalist in Russia. This can be translated by google translate.

http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/3292-zhurnalist-iz-rf-ya-hochu-chtoby-ukraina-znala-chto-est-i-drugie-russkie

[Shadow]

An intelligent journalist in Russia. This can be translated by google translate.

http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/3292-zhurnalist-iz-rf-ya-hochu-chtoby-ukraina-znala-chto-est-i-drugie-russkie

Impossible. Anyone disagreeing with Putin is in jail or dead, and there is no free press.

[Photo Guy]

Read the article. ....Interesting!

[Chelseaboy]

Now that Donetsk is totally surrounded by Ukrainian troops,Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov and the Separatist leader are both bleating about an impending humanitarian disaster and pleading for a peacekeeping force in eastern Ukraine.

Looks like they're trying to find an escape route for the pro-Russian terrorists before they get wiped out.

[Boethius]

An escape route is fine, as long as they don't take their war elsewhere on Ukrainian soil. 

[Gylden]

Disgusting
 
 

[lordtiberius]

Its not propaganda if its true:

http://vk.com/video-36358473_169705804?list=88964adad9780a61a7&og=1

Video of a Yalta woman who bought milk and when she opened up the packet its water.