Current situation in Ukraine

[Chelseaboy]

Fascist Nazi's in Russia ?

Say it ain't so.

And Russians and other Putler fans have the audacity to come on here and bleat about far-right extremists in Ukraine.

Take a look at your own country first 

Some of Putlers best mates are fascists.

And that's why the Jews in Ukraine sent an open letter of complaint to him.

We've already had one seriously Pro Russian Putler fangirl on here making deranged racist comments..anybody else want to show their true colours ?

[lordtiberius]

Stop hating Russians. That would solve it all.

Ok, as of 5:56 EST, I stop hating Russians.  Hmm, still a war going on in Ukraine.  Any more ideas?

[Chelseaboy]

Estimated that half the worlds population of Neo-Nazis,50-70 thousand,now living in Russia.

Congrats you Russians and Putinists.

[Maxx2]

Estimated that half the worlds population of Neo-Nazis,50-70 thousand,now living in Russia.

Congrats you Russians and Putinists.

We got crazy people living in the US and I wouldn't condemn the whole country. That is Nazi tactics.

[Chelseaboy]

But not half the worlds population of Neo Nazis..and the USA isn't stealing another countries land...whilst calling that country fascist,and it's Russian citizens there in dahger from far-right extremists.

Total hypocrisy comes to mind.

It begs the question how many of these so-called far right extremists in Ukraine are actually from Russia and just stirring the pot on behalf of Putler.

[XMan]

Today I spoke to a friend of mine who is originally from Kharkiv.  He is a concert pianist currently in Dubai.  He has friends that are pro-Ukrainian unity and friends who are pro-Russian.  He told me today that he doesn't know who to believe, that each side is convinced that the other has done nothing but lie about everything.  He hasn't been in Ukraine since 2012 and now has no plans to return.  His parents, from his perspective, are relatively safe in the particular area of Kharkiv in which they reside.  But he has said that it is entirely unsafe to be on the streets at night in many areas of the city.  The key point here is that his own friends are spewing b.s. about his other friends.  So civil war is pretty much already here. 

I am sure there are far right skinhead types in Kiev.  I am sure there are Russian special ops troops fomenting unrest and Russian TV blaming every bit of violence on "Nazi's," which is wildly untrue.

The problem is that while I am sure there are both skinheads and Russian special ops troops in Ukraine, they are both in the minority.   Extremist behavior on each side by these minorities is inflaming the situation when a huge majority just wants a functional government with less corruption and has no desire to have troops of any kind anywhere.

Calling everyone associated with the current Ukrainian government a Nazi is ridiculous. 
It's great propaganda to stir people up who don't know any better, who only have Russian TV as a news source, and / or who are paranoid.

Russian TV is entirely one-sided and it's clear the goal is an unstable Ukraine minimally, potentially an invasion to "protect" Russian speakers, or possibly a split Ukraine.  In all the data I have seen, a small percentage of people in eastern and southern Ukraine actually want Russian troops there.  In many cases the pro-Russian's don't want Russian troops there.  But they don't want violence in the streets either, and they want a government that represents them.  I imagine many are afraid of both sides. 

Perhaps if you are part of the police force you are apathetic, or you also fear both sides. 

In Odessa now there are students, businessmen, etc., forming a pro-Ukrainian force because the police do nothing.  They don't want the military there, and they don't want armed pro-Russian's demanding secession. 

It doesn't appear that Russia wants peace in Ukraine, or they would have followed the Geneva accord.  I can see why the Ukrainian government feels compelled to try to retake control.  It's just not going to work. 

I don't have a crystal ball.
But I think invasion is likely.
The only real hope is if regular citizens somehow take control and reject the extremists on both sides, bringing some rational thought and behavior to the forefront. 
Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea in the USA. 

[alex330]

He has friends that are pro-Ukrainian unity and friends who are pro-Russian.  But he has said that it is entirely unsafe to be on the streets at night in many areas of the city. 

I am sure there are far right skinhead types in Kiev.  I am sure there are Russian special ops troops fomenting unrest and Russian TV blaming every bit of violence on "Nazi's," which is wildly untrue.

The problem is that while I am sure there are both skinheads and Russian special ops troops in Ukraine, they are both in the minority.   Extremist behavior on each side by these minorities is inflaming the situation when a huge majority just wants a functional government with less corruption and has no desire to have troops of any kind anywhere.

Russian TV is entirely one-sided and it's clear the goal is an unstable Ukraine minimally, potentially an invasion to "protect" Russian speakers, or possibly a split Ukraine.  In all the data I have seen, a small percentage of people in eastern and southern Ukraine actually want Russian troops there.  In many cases the pro-Russian's don't want Russian troops there.  But they don't want violence in the streets either, and they want a government that represents them.  I imagine many are afraid of both sides. 

Yes, this is what my understanding of the situation is and what the people we know in Ukraine tell us. My father in law living in Odessa is pro Russian. He will vote communist come elections, but does not want to be a part of Russia. Mother in law will vote another direction. Friends in yet a different way. But we are familiar mostly with Odessa and cannot begin to know what the rest of the country wants.

Perhaps if you are part of the police force you are apathetic, or you also fear both sides. 

Apathetic, lacking leadership, overwhelmed and outgunned, and some have chosen sides. In Odessa the chief of police and many officers were pro Russian. You can see many wearing the red ribbons in the riot videos. After the event the police chief was removed and someone new appointed by the government in Kiev. He is from Western Ukraine so it is reversed.

In Odessa now there are students, businessmen, etc., forming a pro-Ukrainian force because the police do nothing.  They don't want the military there, and they don't want armed pro-Russian's demanding secession. 

I am told there are groups of citizens arming themselves in anticipation of the upcoming riots on May 9th. Men roam the streets at night with weapons. Let's hope there is not an escalated repeat of last Friday.

[JayH]

XMan & Alex--it is a complex situation in trying to state what most Ukrainians are  thinking--but--there is a couple of important additions to your comments.
A/Most Ukrainians wanted and want a peaceful life and election-in fact-they expected it.

B/  The violent catalyst is Putin's doing-- without Russian support ie organisation,payments,arms,promotion of violence--plus the green men--- all has embolded so called pro- Rus  'supporters"-- all that with the intention to destabilise  Ukraine  for Putin's own purposes.

In trying to govern Ukraine right now is a nightmare-- as you said the police,armed forces,bureaucracy  are all conflicted--partly out of self preservation,partly because they also reflect the  general confusion of the situation. Russian disinformation has deliberately promoted that eg   look at how distorted some pro-Rus Russians are over what happened in Odessa.
On that point-- many on forums and in the media-- seek to simply believe the "where there is smoke -there is fire" media of Russian propaganda on virtually every issue-despite video evidence to support other assessments being much closer to a true report-- eg--throwing up the right sector presence in Odessa as a negative-- the fact is that right sector has in the huge percentage of cases acted to prevent violence  eg   in a city where a pro-Rus rally was being orchestrated( buses on the way etc) --the locals who are fierce pro a united Ukraine supporters-- were intent on giving the interlopers a reception they would never forget( maybe lucky to survive!!) -- well-- it was Right sector representatives on the ground who worked tirelessly preaching non-violent  protest and to not interfere with the pro-Rus out of towners. If you think about it a little-- look at how many times it is pro-Rus  attacking peaceful pro-Ukraine rallies-- then look at how they attempt to escalate the violence.  In Odessa they underestimated the crowds reaction to being shot at and people killed -- the people in Odessa are in shock and mourning over the deaths there-- while the Kremlin propaganda machine is at full tilt with the "poor Russian " bs. and attempting to raise the stakes further over it.

[Gator]

Say Hi to your friends.
http://odnoklassniki.ru/video/62575417704499-1

Many parts reminded me of the Glasgow Rangers hooligan fan club. 

[Shadow]

Do people believe there is Russian involvement and propaganda just because the EU and US admitted to be involved?
I see no other reason.

As for LT: now stop the hate to Russians as much as you believe in God, and pray for their well-being.

[Chelseaboy]

No,people believe that Russia is involved because,unlike the EU and US,it has actually already stolen Ukraine land.

You did notice Russia stole Crimea ..or did that pass you by ?

[Shadow]

No,people believe that Russia is involved because,unlike the EU and US,it has actually already stolen Ukraine land.

You did notice Russia stole Crimea ..or did that pass you by ?

Nothing was stolen except the right of a democratic solution. The stupidity of people here is sickening.

[Muzh]

Nothing was stolen except the right of a democratic solution. The stupidity of people here is sickening.

WTF are you talking about? What democratic solution do you get at the point of a barrel?


What hypocrites some of these Europeans who assail the US as imperialist but then embrace this overt aggression and destabilization of a country as an "act of democracy."


Whew!


I better get out of here. It stinks.

[Shadow]

WTF are you talking about? What democratic solution do you get at the point of a barrel?


What hypocrites some of these Europeans who assail the US as imperialist but then embrace this overt aggression and destabilization of a country as an "act of democracy."


Whew!


I better get out of here. It stinks.

Yep get out of here. You need to,
Prove the point of the barrel that you are talking about.

I do not blame you ,as you are too stupid to investigate using the sources here available to you and instead just act like a parrot to the propaganda of the media.

[cc3]

Yep get out of here. You need to,
Prove the point of the barrel that you are talking about.

I do not blame you ,as you are too stupid to investigate using the sources here available to you and instead just act like a parrot to the propaganda of the media.

With all due respect, you are russified beyond salvation. Why don't you relocate from the degenerate West to the people's paradise of CCCP 2.0?

[Muzh]

[GQBlues]

Dammit! I also saw what he thought of SoCal...

[Muzh]

Yep get out of here. You need to,
Prove the point of the barrel that you are talking about.

I do not blame you ,as you are too stupid to investigate using the sources here available to you and instead just act like a parrot to the propaganda of the media.

Hey Brainiac, since you are so smart can you read?


Russian Palestine


You familiar with Palestine since you are not so stupid?

[Muzh]

Yep get out of here. You need to,
Prove the point of the barrel that you are talking about.

I do not blame you ,as you are too stupid to investigate using the sources here available to you and instead just act like a parrot to the propaganda of the media.

And if you cannot read Russian, then you can at least read this in English. You know, English, as in the people who save your sorry ass the last time there was an anshluss. And don't forget their English-speaking cousins from across the pond who managed to bring you up from your sorry knees.


Putin's Dilemma for being a cocksucker

[Maxx2]

So when is a moderator going to show up and give us the firehose?

[southernX]

 for those who talk about the democracy in crimea on march 16th

this is how russia invades and steals land , breaks international law and spins it into the ''democratic will of the people ''

To make sure no one misses this:

Official Kremlin results: 97 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 83 percent, and 82 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

President’s Human Rights Council mid-point estimate: 55 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 40 percent, 22.5 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/paul-roderick-gregory-putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-percent-voted-for-annexation-346405.html

SX

[Chelseaboy]

Shadow and others on here will dismiss that nugget of information as western propaganda..they won't admit to being made to look stupid in their support of Putler.

Never let facts disturb their fantasies...much more comforting for them to believe that Russia didn't steal Crimea..that Russia isn't arming seperatist terrorists in Ukraine...and the evil USA and EU is spinning everything to make Russia look bad.

Easy to see who wears the trousers in the homes of some of the people on here.

[Shadow]

With all due respect, you are russified beyond salvation. Why don't you relocate from the degenerate West to the people's paradise of CCCP 2.0?

Do you support Stalin?

[Shadow]

Hey Brainiac, since you are so smart can you read?


Russian Palestine


You familiar with Palestine since you are not so stupid?

No, it was never a country so as I heard it is an area where people throws stones at their government.

[Shadow]

Shadow and others on here will dismiss that nugget of information as western propaganda..they won't admit to being made to look stupid in their support of Putler.

Never let facts disturb their fantasies...much more comforting for them to believe that Russia didn't steal Crimea..that Russia isn't arming seperatist terrorists in Ukraine...and the evil USA and EU is spinning everything to make Russia look bad.

Easy to see who wears the trousers in the homes of some of the people on here.

Perhaps you can try argumnents insted of propaganda.
the facts speak for them selves.

Lets see:
- the goverment in Kiev was not formed according to Ukrainian law, the percentage needed was not reached
- first action was to try removing Russian as official language, this was turned back for hte time being as some of their own people would get in to trouble.
- a law was passed forbidding the use of violence against peopl demonstrating
- police was ordered to use violence against demonstrators
- freedom of press was compromised by forbidding Russian TV stations and pro-Russian media
- military force is used against citizens
- cotizens are being cut off from water and food supplies

These are all undeniable facts.
Have fun finding ways to wriggle out of it.