The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis

[Muzh]

For example, OSCE reports. The most reliable source at the present time. Тestimony of respectable men, who are not connected with ukrainian media and who can see the places there with own eyes, for example Ruban, Montyan (persons from Ukrainian side). Even Jen Psaki would be OK if she supports her words with documentary or intellegеnce evidence

Okey dokey

[lordtiberius]

LT, I asked you to find the quote from OCSE  about Russian military involvement,  . . .  OK, I'll take it as you've found nothing.

You are correct.  I made a mistake earlier.  When I said OSCE, it was instead Russia's major trading partner the European Union that said that said the Russian military invaded Ukraine.  Do you deny Russian troops have invaded Ukraine?  On second thought, don't bother answering.  Your answer is not important anyway.

By the way, how is your Chinese coming along?

I will be looking for you here:  http://lostivan.com/en

[Boethius]

Ukrainian POW shot in war crime by Russian citizen fighting with the terrorists.


At least one Russian posting here (no, not Belvis) believes he deserved it, as "he is a soldier", so his life doesn't matter.


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/murder-of-ukrainian-prisoner-by-russian-backed-separatists-investigated-videos-385322.html

[Boethius]

Belvis, this is in response to Russian allegations of Americans fighting with Ukraine.

[lordtiberius]

According to your logic, these men should bend over for Putin.  It is not worth it, right?

[Boethius]

My logic is based on facts.  Russia is not going to give up Crimea.  So, bring a case for reparations for the loss of state assets, and for the loss of gas, and make it economically a drain to maintain that land.  Ukraine and her supporters should ensure Crimea gets no legally recognized status in the international community.  That is hardly "bending over".

[lordtiberius]

And how is what you "propose" any different than Minsk 1 or Minsk 2?  And how are those working out by the way?

You have to resist by any means possible.  RESIST.  Resisting is not quitting.

[mendeleyev]

Another Russian young man decided to join Ukraine's forces:

http://dailysignal.com/2015/04/05/why-a-russian-decided-to-fight-for-ukraine/

[AC]

Funeral and investigation into the torture and murder of Ukrainian hero Branovytsky:


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/murder-of-ukrainian-prisoner-by-russian-backed-separatists-investigated-videos-385322.html

[Boethius]

Wesley Clark has stated a new Russian offensive is imminent -
http://www.businessinsider.in/Former-NATO-commander-A-new-Russian-offensive-in-eastern-Ukraine-is-imminent/articleshow/46841408.cms
 

[lordtiberius]

Wesley Clark has stated a new Russian offensive is imminent -
http://www.businessinsider.in/Former-NATO-commander-A-new-Russian-offensive-in-eastern-Ukraine-is-imminent/articleshow/46841408.cms

I hope he is wrong.

[Boethius]

A Russian based strategist also says the same thing, but believes the invasion will be later in the year -

Vladimir Putin’s goal in Ukraine remains regime change in Kyiv, something he
had hoped his intervention in Crimea and Donbas would force the Ukrainians to do on their own. But that hasn’t happened, and now, the Kremlin leader is likely to launch a broader attack against Ukraine in the near future, according to Pavel Felgengauer.

Putin has an even more compelling reason to move forward, the Russian military analyst says. If he doesn’t, he could face “very serious problems” at home. And “as a result, this could lead to regime change” not in Kyiv but in Moscow itself.
 
Consequently, while a move toward “a stable frozen conflict” in the Donbas is “theoretically possible,” Felgengauer argues, it is “improbable” because for “political, strategic, tactical and economic reasons,” that would leave Ukraine in a state that is “absolutely unacceptable for Russia.”

“Therefore,” he says, “military pressure will continue,” and “Moscow will continue to attack as soon as it completes all the necessary preparations.” At the present time, “an intensive preparation for a summer campaign is going on,” one that will involve first militias it can disown but then may involve Russian units as well.

Thus, Felgengauer says, “the probability of a summer campaign is very high.”
 
While an unstable truce continues in the Donbas, “the propaganda campaign against the Ukrainian regime and the West is only intensifying” in Russia itself, the military analyst says. Shifting the direction of that campaign, which hasn’t happened, could “lead to the activation of a protest movement” in Russia as the country enters a new electoral cycle.

Indeed, Felgengauer suggests, Putin would face “very serious problems if he were to decide on a freezing of the conflict in the Donbas. As a result, this could lead to regime change in Moscow.” Consequently, he will try to inflict “tactical defeats” on the Ukrainian army in the hope that will lead to political change in Kyiv and the federalization or disintegration of Ukraine.

“In any case, according to the Kremlin’s scenario,” the Russian military analyst says, “Ukraine must not get the chance to develop independently or even more to build a democracy. This is something Moscow does not need at all, and that is exactly the outcome to which a frozen conflict could lead.”

Meanwhile, various Ukrainian writers are pointing to the Russian order of battle already present in eastern Ukraine or adjoining Russian regions as an indication that Putin may move even sooner than that, possibly as early as this coming weekend.

And Polish President Bronisław Komorowski told the Verkhovna Rada that “it is impossible not to see” that Russia has put military equipment and troops into Ukraine as part of an invasion. “Only the blind do not see this,” he said.
 
Komorowski said that “in the east, Ukraine is defending not only its own territorial integrity but also all of Europe from a return of the imperial past. The world will be secure only when Ukraine will be secure.” And consequently, “Europe must provide Ukraine with political economic and security support.”

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/04/09/russian-military-analyst-new-russian-attack-on-ukraine-likely-as-a-frozen-conflict-threatens-putins-goals-and-interests/

[lordtiberius]

Will the Spring Offensive be Blitzkrieg or more Hybrid War?

[Muzh]

For example, OSCE reports. The most reliable source at the present time. Тestimony of respectable men, who are not connected with ukrainian media and who can see the places there with own eyes, for example Ruban, Montyan (persons from Ukrainian side). Even Jen Psaki would be OK if she supports her words with documentary or intellegеnce evidence

Okey dokey

Hey Beavis, I just found out a bit of interesting trivia. The OCSE does NOT cover many checkpoints in the conflict area. As a matter of fact, the coverage is severely lacking and, get this, this is hilarious, the are staff are Russian officials that are bound by a code of conduct not to reveal any information they find to the terrorists separatists. You know, menial stuff like armament, ground troops, etc. Nothing major, of course.


But not to worry. I'll keep my eyes peeled for some good information from the OSCE.

[JayH]

Everday more  information comes to light--it keeps making fools of the pro-Rus excuse makers here on the forums and highlights the depth of Putins lying.

# Zakharchenko admitted that capture # Donbass 'and prepared for 2 months before fleeing Yanukovych


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mzaHg4SQJpw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mzaHg4SQJpw


The "Subject" visiting Heads of DNR Alexander Zakharchenko 09/04/2015

[fathertime]

I twas browsing about the internet this evening and found a couple rather prominent people (pro-Russian/Pro-Yanukovych were killed in Ukraine recently.  (Kalashnikov/Buzyna) A former Deputy in Parliament and a journalist)


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3040777/Former-ally-deposed-Ukrainian-president-shot-dead.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490


http://news.yahoo.com/pro-russia-ukrainian-journalist-shot-dead-kiev-142206935.html;_ylt=AwrSbDpYjDBV6zoAd09XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTExbGtvMmJiBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVUlDMV8xBHNlYwNzYw--


There is not very much media coverage of the event...and no coverage on this website.  No discussion about launching an investigation...these lives/viewpoints apparently are not worth anything much.   


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

There have been quite a few assassinations, mysterious deaths, and suicides in the last six months.   It has nothing to do with pro Russian views, and everything to do with money.


BTW, all of these incidents are well covered in Ukraine's press.

[JayH]

Chances are it relates to covering the Russian connection to murders prior to and during Maidan.

[Boethius]

No, I don't believe that, although that is what the Ukrainian government is selling.  There is a war to divide spoils. 

[Muzh]

Here's an interesting article from our friend Dmitry Gorenburg. Maybe some folks may understand FT's fears.


And no, I'm not defending baldie here. 

When asked whether he thought the timing of the drills was intended to coincide with the anniversary of the annexation, Gorenburg responded, “I very much doubt it’s a coincidence. It was a symbolic act, I think.”


But he was less sure about the timing of the release of Putin’s comments about nuclear preparedness in the Crimea context. “I’m not sure why it was said now, because the overall message that I think Russia’s trying to send is to try to deter,” he said. Relevant to this point is that the Rossiya-1 interview was pre-recorded. It is unclear when the interview itself took place.


And in fact, deterrence seems to be at the top of everyone’s agenda. “[The West is] trying to deter [Russia] from expanding the conflict in Ukraine. [Russia’s] trying to deter [the West] from interfering. And I think that every time Russia mentions nuclear weapons… that’s sort of the final trump card in preventing any serious attack on Russian forces,” Gorenburg said. “And they want to highlight that in order to make Western publics and therefore decision makers more reluctant to take on Russian forces.”

http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/interview-on-last-months-russian-military-exercises/

[AC]

And how is what you "propose" any different than Minsk 1 or Minsk 2?  And how are those working out by the way?

You have to resist by any means possible.  RESIST.  Resisting is not quitting.

The primary reason the Germans lost WWII was because of meddling by Hitler in his General's decisions and his insistence on unworthy campaigns.  Stalingrad was one such idiotic campaign that all worthy General's were against, but Hitler foolishly insisted on it because of his gigantic ego and desire to deprive Stalin of his namesake city.  No military value at all; just a gigantic boondoggle.  Kiev was similar.  He split his Armies into 3 instead of listening to his Generals and going for the premier target which was Moscow.

Now upon facing overwhelming defeats on both fronts the Germans made an art form out of fighting retreats and extracted heavy tolls on their enemies before eventually being defeated by combined actions of all major World powers against them.  However until that ultimate defeat the Germans were regarded as some sort of Houdini's who always escaped to fight another day.

Re-taking Crimea now or even soon is out of the question.  Holding Mariupol is of utmost importance and urgency although I fear it's too late.

Whatever happens over there though is the decision of those Ukrainians on the ground and you ought to be respectful of that instead of repeated foolish warmongering.

[Boethius]

Putin commented on Buzina's murder within 22 minutes of it occurring.
http://www.rferl.org/content/kyiv-alleges-journalists-slaying-not-only-ordered-timed-to-the-minute/26963867.html

[JayH]

Putin commented on Buzina's murder within 22 minutes of it occurring.
http://www.rferl.org/content/kyiv-alleges-journalists-slaying-not-only-ordered-timed-to-the-minute/26963867.html

Chances are it relates to covering the Russian connection to murders prior to and during Maidan.

Maybe because he had advance notice !

[Steamer]

Putin commented on Buzina's murder within 22 minutes of it occurring.
http://www.rferl.org/content/kyiv-alleges-journalists-slaying-not-only-ordered-timed-to-the-minute/26963867.html

A lot of baseless accusations. C'mon Bo, proof, proof and more proof.

[Boethius]

The time of Buzina's death is proven, because there were eyewitnesses.  The time it was announced publicly in Kyiv is proven.  The time Putin spoke of Buzina's death (some 20 minutes after is occured, and even less after it was announced in Kyiv) is also proven, because Putin's comments were broadcast live.