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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 577810 times)

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Offline Ranetka

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« Reply #5600 on: December 15, 2017, 12:55:24 AM »
The fact you have to go back over 3 decades to find an example should tell you something.


How about Angela Merkel ? Is 12 years and counting long enough? As you said 8 to 10 years max to be called a democracy, when are you planning to start pointing German undemocratic nature out?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 12:58:58 AM by Ranetka »
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5601 on: December 15, 2017, 01:12:00 AM »
Yes, I think she should step aside.  New ideas and new faces are good for countries.  However, Merkel doesn't rule with a majority, she can't impose her views, because she has coalition partners.  Therefore, I believe this example is flawed.

Quote
when are you planning to start pointing German undemocratic nature out?

When I start posting at GermanWomenDiscussion.com!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:27:58 AM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Ranetka

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« Reply #5602 on: December 15, 2017, 05:21:22 AM »
Yes, I think she should step aside.  New ideas and new faces are good for countries.  However, Merkel doesn't rule with a majority, she can't impose her views, because she has coalition partners.  Therefore, I believe this example is flawed.

When I start posting at GermanWomenDiscussion.com!


My point is you donít think Germany is not a democratic country based on that but you use the length of Putin being in power as a proof of Russia not being democratic. In reality situation is the same in both countries - the leader is chosen repeatedly by majority of people because majority of people believe she or he is the best candidate for the job.
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Online msmob

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« Reply #5603 on: December 15, 2017, 08:29:54 AM »

My point is you donít think Germany is not a democratic country based on that but you use the length of Putin being in power as a proof of Russia not being democratic. In reality situation is the same in both countries - the leader is chosen repeatedly by majority of people because majority of people believe she or he is the best candidate for the job.

Really you are comparing apples and oranges.

In one country it is possible to form a new political party and break the mold..

In another leading opposition members seem to be convicted and  'excluded'.

Then there are the laws that effectively stifle new parties gaiining momentum.

This is 101 obvious... unless you chose to be selectively blind!

The internet, in the end, was not designed to give people the information they need. It gives people the information they want.

Offline Ranetka

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« Reply #5604 on: December 15, 2017, 09:05:16 AM »
Really you are comparing apples and oranges.

In one country it is possible to form a new political party and break the mold..

In another leading opposition members seem to be convicted and  'excluded'.

Then there are the laws that effectively stifle new parties gaiining momentum.

This is 101 obvious... unless you chose to be selectively blind!


Really, when was the mold broke last time in say UK? Seems the same 2 parties are dancing around for the last 60 years or so and the rest are just fringes providing entertainment.


Never mind US where it has been members of the same families...imagine what would the West say if Putin,s daughter taken his place, but in the US this was of course completely democratic.


By the way Russia has an opposition party every election putting a considerable number of seats in parliament. Called communist party, another fact the westerners do not like therefore ignore. For example the mayor in the city I am from is a communist, if thatís not an opposition then what is?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:39:16 AM by Ranetka »
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Online BillyB

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« Reply #5605 on: December 15, 2017, 09:08:40 AM »
opposition members seem to be convicted and  'excluded'.



I'm sure Republicans felt that way after FDR went on to win his fourth straight term.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #5606 on: December 15, 2017, 09:35:38 AM »
Democracy had always been loosely used the world over.

Ironically enough, the one country that have the closest definition of the word, direct democracy, is currently headed by a president of their federal council for the past 11 years.

...but if short term leadership defines 'true' democractic system for some, then Australia is way out in front of everyone else considering they had 5 different prime ministers in as many years.
My wonderful rebuttal to the Prague Spring thread is now *relocated* again (being actively hidden, lol) in *Anything Goes* section, titled: Willy Waving. Hurry before she deletes it altogether. LMAO! Enjoy.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5607 on: December 15, 2017, 01:39:54 PM »

My point is you donít think Germany is not a democratic country based on that but you use the length of Putin being in power as a proof of Russia not being democratic. In reality situation is the same in both countries - the leader is chosen repeatedly by majority of people because majority of people believe she or he is the best candidate for the job.


I don't recall stating my opinion on Germany. 


A majority of people did not choose Angela Merkel.  Her party has never won more than 41.5% of the vote with her as leader. 
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5608 on: December 15, 2017, 01:46:33 PM »

Really, when was the mold broke last time in say UK? Seems the same 2 parties are dancing around for the last 60 years or so and the rest are just fringes providing entertainment.


Never mind US where it has been members of the same families...imagine what would the West say if Putin,s daughter taken his place, but in the US this was of course completely democratic.


By the way Russia has an opposition party every election putting a considerable number of seats in parliament. Called communist party, another fact the westerners do not like therefore ignore. For example the mayor in the city I am from is a communist, if thatís not an opposition then what is?


I think your UK example is flawed.  It doesn't matter how many parties exist, it's what those parties do.  In the UK, MP's are not required to toe the party line.  The fates of many of their leaders proves this.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 02:41:45 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Ranetka

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« Reply #5609 on: December 15, 2017, 03:45:30 PM »

I don't recall stating my opinion on Germany. 





Ok. Do you consider Germany a democracy?


Putin has an absolute majority of votes, does it make him more legitimate leader than Merkel in your opinion?
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5610 on: December 15, 2017, 03:58:19 PM »
No. Countries in which you are not free to express your views, no matter how odious, are not democratic.

Politicians were elected in the USSR. By your definition, it therefore was democratic.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5611 on: December 16, 2017, 03:20:42 AM »
Not sure how to say in English "игра в наперстки" but this is what people are doing comparing Russia to Germany or any other country/ Belorussia? More.

As for Putin, he is absolutely popular in Russia. Highly popular.

Online Davo2

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« Reply #5612 on: December 16, 2017, 03:56:46 AM »
The woman i'm talking with isn't a huge fan of Putin. She has the belief that a man who can accumulate 200 billion dollars of personal wealth, while single mother's struggle with not much help from the state, is not a man of the people. She See's him as a good example of why many aspects of Russian life are exposed to  corruption. It surprised me when she said she wouldn't express this view in public as "we still have to be careful"... I guess that statement says it all
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 04:02:57 AM by Davo2 »

Online msmob

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« Reply #5613 on: December 16, 2017, 04:18:06 AM »

Really, when was the mold broke last time in say UK?



1/ SDP in the eighties...came from nowhere and moved Labour to the right, even grabbing left of centre Tories.... The two main parties adapted as they saw oblivion

2/ UKIP

One party agenda...'get UK out of Europe'... Sadly, it worked and made themselves 'redundant'

Now, we both know which nation you are obuscating about ...I (easily) dealt with your attempted deflection...so can we get back to why a certain nation tries to make laws to stifle opposition?


 



By the way Russia has an opposition party every election putting a considerable number of seats in parliament. Called communist party, another fact the westerners do not like therefore ignore. For example the mayor in the city I am from is a communist, if thatís not an opposition then what is?

)) The Communist Party is not considered a threat and is allowed. (as is the he LDPR)

So,. back to my specific points?  (( Hint leaders of new parties 'found to be corrupt' and excluded and how often do we see proper representation of  other parties...? ' United Russia' effectively control the big 4 TV channels

« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 02:42:08 PM by msmob »
The internet, in the end, was not designed to give people the information they need. It gives people the information they want.

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5614 on: December 16, 2017, 05:21:51 AM »
. She See's him as a good example 
Out of pure curiosity, what does "See's him " mean?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 05:26:01 AM by Doll »

Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #5615 on: December 16, 2017, 09:06:09 AM »
The funny thing about these recent exchanges is the mistake of describing the majority will of the people of a nation in choosing its leader to be 'undemocratic'. That's about the most direct definition of democracy. If the majority in Russia wants to see the continued leadership of Putin then that is a prime practice in a democracy.

Pretty obvious that a whole lot of you are still ignorant to the very basic difference between democracy v republic.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 09:10:00 AM by GQBlues »
My wonderful rebuttal to the Prague Spring thread is now *relocated* again (being actively hidden, lol) in *Anything Goes* section, titled: Willy Waving. Hurry before she deletes it altogether. LMAO! Enjoy.

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5616 on: December 16, 2017, 11:39:10 AM »
GQBlues, they just can not accept the fact that Russia has a very strong President. Finally! It is hard for them as well to understand that the majority of people do want him as a leader.


Offline ML

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« Reply #5617 on: December 16, 2017, 11:49:30 AM »
GQBlues, they just can not accept the fact that Russia has a very strong President. Finally! It is hard for them as well to understand that the majority of people do want him as a leader.

I disagree.  I doubt anyone here doesn't believe that Russia has a very strong president and that the majority of the people want him as their leader.

The comments of others concerning the situation in Russia have nothing to do with what you are claiming.
I still like Ike.

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5618 on: December 16, 2017, 11:52:09 AM »
I disagree.  I doubt anyone here doesn't believe that Russia has a very strong president and that the majority of the people want him as their leader.

The comments of others concerning the situation in Russia have nothing to do with what you are claiming.
Then you need to read the recent posts again.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5619 on: December 16, 2017, 11:59:55 AM »
Well my comment is not about whether Russians want Putin as a leader, so at least in terms of what I've posted, ML is correct.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5620 on: December 16, 2017, 12:06:02 PM »
Wow!


  upload[/URL] radikal



Offline Doll

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« Reply #5621 on: December 16, 2017, 12:12:58 PM »
ML, "doesn't believe" and "doesn't accept" are very different. I said "accept". You need to be more careful when you comment.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5622 on: December 16, 2017, 12:27:31 PM »
Per Oxford dictionary:
Definition of "accept":
2.  Believe or come to recognize (a proposition) as valid or correct.

Per Cambridge Dictionary:
B2  to believe that something is true.

Per Merriam Webster Dictionary:
3c  to recognize as true:  BELIEVE


ML probably has the most precise use of English language of all posters on the forum. Together with Sandro, the best use of punctuation.  He knew what he was saying.  It wasn't an error.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 12:30:23 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5623 on: December 16, 2017, 12:34:06 PM »
He understood me (you too).

Accept, admit- whatever.
Accept is better.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5624 on: December 16, 2017, 12:38:48 PM »

He understood me (you too).

Accept, admit- whatever.
Accept is better.


Accept and believe are the same thing, essentially.  ML's point was that he does not believe anyone here is stating Russia does not have a strong president, nor is anyone stating Russians don't want him as their leader.  I happen to agree with that.  That was never my point.  It's not moby's point either.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 12:42:03 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

 

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