Trip Report, Moscow April 30-May 7. Finally, I got it right

[jb]

Thank you, groovlstk, for a most excellent trip report;

Moscow girls usually take a drubbing around here in favor of the country girls. And an unneeded one at that.  It cheers my crusty old heart to read your trip report and see that someone can take a chance on a big city girl and be successful.  I've always maintained that Moscow women are more inclined to tell you like it is, my way or the highway, or to love you for who you are instead of how big is your wallet, in short, there is a lot less likehood of a scam when you are dealing with women and girls who are pretty well off to begin with.

It sounds as if you have won her heart, but believe me when I say, the war ain't over yet.  Even after 5 years of marriage to a Moscow woman, she doesn't cut me too much slack.  They still have to be petted and pampered a bit, long after the "I Do's" are said and done. 

I wish you and your Irina the best of luck for the future.

[Rvrwind]

Glad things worked out for you Marc. Sorry we didn't get the chance to hookup but I just couldn't get away. I tried a couple of times & then something else would pop up preventing it.
Really sorry we couldn't get together for a beer. Maybe next time.

[groovlstk]

Thanks, JB. I've never bought into the "country girls are better than big city girls" canard, either. No doubt big cities like Moscow and Kiev have more professional daters since the women there have more exposure to foolhardy Westerners, but I'm much more willing to trust someone who already has a decent living standard and isn't afraid to tell me something I don't want to hear.

I think the "innocence" that some guys see in girls from the provinces is more likely "desperation."

Richard, I'm sure I'll be back in Moscow sometime in the near future, so keep that beer on ice.

[KenC]

Thanks, JB. I've never bought into the "country girls are better than big city girls" canard, either. No doubt big cities like Moscow and Kiev have more professional daters since the women there have more exposure to foolhardy Westerners, but I'm much more willing to trust someone who already has a decent living standard and isn't afraid to tell me something I don't want to hear.

I think the "innocence" that some guys see in girls from the provinces is more likely "desperation."
Richard, I'm sure I'll be back in Moscow sometime in the near future, so keep that beer on ice.

Enjoying your report, big time. Love your writing style! On your innocence/desperation comment: I agree with your assessment but would like to add that I think there is a bit of an intimidation factor with big city girls too. Some guys are not up to the task of chasing a woman that is on a more even playing field. Without the "savior" factor going for them, they don't have what it takes or at least do not have the confidence to try.
KenC

[Zhena]

Thanks, JB. I've never bought into the "country girls are better than big city girls" canard, either. No doubt big cities like Moscow and Kiev have more professional daters since the women there have more exposure to foolhardy Westerners, but I'm much more willing to trust someone who already has a decent living standard and isn't afraid to tell me something I don't want to hear.

I think the "innocence" that some guys see in girls from the provinces is more likely "desperation."

Richard, I'm sure I'll be back in Moscow sometime in the near future, so keep that beer on
My 5 cents:if you r from a big city-look for a same girl;if your from a small city or a village-look for that girls then...More in common.

[Zhena]

My 5 cents:if you r from a big city-look for a same girl;if your from a small city or a village-look for that girls then...More in common.

[groovlstk]

A F, you're spot on.

In another thread here a guy was dismissive of one of the most beautiful cities in Europe because, among other reasons, it lacked fast food and convenience stores. 

A cultured Russian girl from a large city would not be a good match for this feller.

[Michelangelo]

Thanks for an exciting and informative trip report, groov! 

I think that newbes should read ALL your trip reports so they will see that you are now reacting from experience.  Also, your comfort level has increased to the point that the girl now sees you as a man and someone she can lean on. 

Bottom line....It does not come easy.  You paid your dues and now it is paying dividends...

[Michelangelo]

And by the way, a bit of lucky is always involved, too 

[groovlstk]

Day 6

I'm afraid from here on in things get pretty boring after the drama of the first few days, as Irina and I settled in as a couple. We woke up late and after a lazy breakfast, headed to the metro. We planned to visit the Archangelskoye Palace Estate. It's about 90 minutes outside of Moscow.

When we got to the end of the block, I looked over at the small bus shelter and saw my gang of runts sleeping on the bench. The chief antagonist had his head on the lap of another boy, and he in turn was leaning against another, all were fast asleep. I suddenly realized that they were homeless and this bus shelter was their home. My heart softened and I realized I could never understand how horrible their lives are. It didn't mean I'd take any more guff from them, but I felt sorrow for them and vowed to keep them in my prayers.

Archangelskoye Palace Estate:

http://home.comcast.net/~marka136/arch1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~marka136/arch2.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~marka136/arch3.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~marka136/arch5.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~marka136/arch6.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~marka136/arch7.jpg

We departed the park in the early afternoon. There was a bus/marshrutka stop just outside the entrance, and across the street was a cop. Each time a commercial truck came down the road, he'd step out into the road with his baton and flag it. The traffic on this road moved quickly, and I felt bad for the drivers of 18-wheelers as it probably took them a half-mile to come to a stop, then they had to walk back to where the cop was standing. We waited about 30 minutes for the bus, and during this time the cop pulled over dozens of vehicles. Each time it was the same: The driver would hand the cop a sheaf of papers, some of the papers were palmed and pocketed, the rest returned. I am well aware of the level of corruption in Russia but still it was a bit shocking to see this happen in the open, with no attempt at concealment. And many of the truck drivers laughed and joked with the cop, as if he were a toll booth attendant rather than a crook. I wanted to snap a photo of him but probably that wouldn't have been a good idea. I explained to Irina that the great majority of cops in the US would never act in this manner, and she replied fatalistically, "it's Russia."

In the early evening, we met Irina's best friend, Ann, at the metro station nearest Arbat. Ann is tall, blonde, and very beautiful. We walked along Old Arbat, and bought a bottle of pivo each. The sun was very strong so we stood in the shade near a tented cafe. After a few minutes, someone from the cafe came over and told us we couldn't stand there. The man pointed to my backpack and expressed concern that I might be a terrorist...! He was obviously yanking our chain, and my first instinct was to tell him if he didn't like it, he could always move his folding-tent cafe to a safe distance. But like Irina told me earlier, "it's Russia." We moved on and walked along New Arbat, it was my first time there and I much prefer Old Arbat.

Both Irina and I were pretty tired, but when Ann challenged us to billiards we took her up on it. We returned to the same pool hall from the evening before and played a few games. I didn't pay for a single game or drink all night... Ann paid for everything, and Irina explained to me that she'd bankrolled Ann the last few times they went out so this was her way of paying Irina back. Hell, it worked for me.

We got a second wind after billiards and decided to do some bowling. I used to bowl when I was a child, but I haven't touched a bowling ball in more than 30 years. I was reminded why I quit bowling when the clerk handed me a pair of smelly white shoes that looked as if they'd been peeled off the feet of a sleeping wino. I don't know if Ann and Irina are representative of the average female bowler in Russia, but watching them roll was so funny! The would grab the ball off the conveyer belt, swing their arm in a windmill motion, and then toss the ball more like a softball pitcher than a bowler. The ball would arc high in the air and then come crashing down onto the wooden lane, it was anyone's guess which direction the ball would follow. I teased them both about it and Irina took to pinching me in the ass for revenge every time I rose to take my turn.

We were both exhausted when we arrived home but Irina found the energy to put together a quick snack for us. Again she put out sliced ham, bread, tomatoes and cucumber slices, and sour cream. Again I pointed out that what we were having for dinner was the same as eating a dreadfully unhealthy sandwich. This time, she explained to me that our dinner was healthier than a sandwich because we consumed each element separately. It's only unhealthy if we combined all the elements and ate everything together, you see. I was speechless at her sheer stubbornness and I placed my hands on her cheeks and kissed her deeply.

It was a great day, one I'll never forget.

[Michelangelo]

Day 6
The man pointed to my backpack and expressed concern that I might be a terrorist...! He was obviously yanking our chain, and my first instinct was to tell him if he didn't like it, he could always move his folding-tent cafe to a safe distance. But like Irina told me earlier, "it's Russia."

On blending in...

Yep, backpacks are out in the FSU.  I was in Paris with my girl this week (she is from Ukraine) and she asked two things--don't wear shorts and don't carry a backpack."  To do would be to announce that I am an American, not a very popular thing to be anymore :-)

[groovlstk]

Thanks for an exciting and informative trip report, groov! 

I think that newbes should read ALL your trip reports so they will see that you are now reacting from experience.  Also, your comfort level has increased to the point that the girl now sees you as a man and someone she can lean on. 

Bottom line....It does not come easy.  You paid your dues and now it is paying dividends...

Michael's right, if you're new to this venture please read my earlier reports... about my failures in Kiev, Dnepropetrovsk, and elsewhere. I was seriously involved with some very bad people. And there's nothing like sitting in an airport after a busted trip waiting to board a hellishly long flight home knowing you pissed away $2-3k chasing the moon.

My time in Moscow with Irina was like a fairytale and our relationship continues to grow now that we're apart, but we have a long way to go. Regardless, if you're about to make your first trip don't even dream about the possibility of having a similar experience.

• Manage your expectations
• Enroll in a frequent flyer program because if you're serious about this you will be making many trips
• Read as much as you can about the culture (I recommend two books: Russia As It Is: Transformation of a Lose/Lose Society and The Exile: Sex, Drugs, and Libel in the New Russia)
• Be prepared to fail and to toss everything out and start over again. Many times
• Someone here (I think it was andrewfin, but I may be mistaken) once wrote that women are like cars. If you don't like the one you have then get a new one. At the time I read it I was offended by such a cold statement, but it's God's truth. If your girl isn't into you or doesn't have the time for you, drop her and move on. There are no shortage of women out there who'd be glad to have your attention.
• Perhaps most important of all, get off your duff and spend some time in Russia or Ukraine, there is nothing more valuable than field experience. Awhile back there was a nutty fellow who was hellbent on hiring someone to live with him full-time in order to teach him Russian--before he'd even made his first trip. For Pete's sake, man... stop talking about going over there and just do it
  

[jb]

Groovy, baby, I can only say, nothing breeds success,,, like success.

My guess is that you will become one of the board's more valuable posters now.  You are beginning to sound a lot like Leslie, and Jet, and AJ, and KenC, and maybe even a little like myself back when we finally got things figured out.  I can only speak for myself, but I welcome you to the ranks of those who have toughed it out and come out on top. 

It may have been a struggle, start to finish, but to have succeeded and come out of the maze with a beautiful RW as a loving wife, isn't it well worth it? 

You done good,,, really good.

[Jumper]

groov- very cool report!
and very glad things are going so well for you two as a couple! 


Now i'm going to have to go read your other reports!
(especially about Dnepro, where my wife is from)
are they posted on RWD , under the groov screen name?

[KenC]

groove,
It is wonderful to read about one of the "smart" guys doing well. I am sincerely happy for you. You still have a ways to go, but somehow I just know you will make the right decisions along the way. Best of luck to you.
KenC

[Jet]

Excellent T/R Groov and I'm really happy to hear that things are finally heading in a positive direction after your prior T/Rs. One completely off topic question though... In five out of six photos of Archangelskoye Palace, there is absolutely no evidence of other people, how the hell did you pull that off? One thing that always facinated me about the country when I was there was that you could go virtually anywhere at any time of night or day and SOMEBODY would be along within 5 minutes. I remember going outside for a smoke at the dacha, in the middle of the forrest, (a 20 minute drive from the dirt road) at 3:30am on a Tuesday and three different people walked by before I finshed the cigerette  .

[PeeWee]

Has the report ended? I did not get to see photos of Irina, the drunk runts, nor the sheep. What gives?

Peewee

[Jumper]

I will leave out AJ

LOL!  i'm wondering if, in this context, that is a good or bad thing?   

[KenC]

Racerx,
You obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about! Go back and read some more of groove's posts. He always had his sh!t together, but now it seems that he has found a good girl. Did you even read this?

My time in Moscow with Irina was like a fairytale and our relationship continues to grow now that we're apart, but we have a long way to go. Regardless, if you're about to make your first trip don't even dream about the possibility of having a similar experience.
Manage your expectations
Enroll in a frequent flyer program because if you're serious about this you will be making many trips
Read as much as you can about the culture (I recommend two books: Russia As It Is: Transformation of a Lose/Lose Society and The Exile: Sex, Drugs, and Libel in the New Russia)
Be prepared to fail and to toss everything out and start over again. Many times
Someone here (I think it was andrewfin, but I may be mistaken) once wrote that women are like cars. If you don't like the one you have then get a new one. At the time I read it I was offended by such a cold statement, but it's God's truth. If your girl isn't into you or doesn't have the time for you, drop her and move on. There are no shortage of women out there who'd be glad to have your attention.
Perhaps most important of all, get off your duff and spend some time in Russia or Ukraine, there is nothing more valuable than field experience. Awhile back there was a nutty fellow who was hellbent on hiring someone to live with him full-time in order to teach him Russian--before he'd even made his first trip. For Pete's sake, man... stop talking about going over there and just do it

Now that is some powerfully good advice. Groove is very experienced, a great writer and has zero chance of being a one week wonder. The fact that he is now back home and not engaged makes your comment even stranger. In your haste to criticize others, you make a fool of yourself. Why don't you just wish groove well and call it a day?
KenC

[PeeWee]

Women are like cars? New cars or used cars? What was andrewfin thinking?

Peewee

[wiz]

Racerx,
You obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about! Go back and read some more of groove's posts. He always had his sh!t together, but now it seems that he has found a good girl. Did you even read this?

Now that is some powerfully good advice. Groove is very experienced, a great writer and has zero chance of being a one week wonder. The fact that he is now back home and not engaged makes your comment even stranger. In your haste to criticize others, you make a fool of yourself. Why don't you just wish groove well and call it a day?
KenC

KenC

I did go back and read Groove’s all previous travel reports, because I enjoy like everybody else, his writing style but I don’t agree with some statements of yours.

1. He always had his sh!t together…..and….Now that is some powerfully good advice.

That is just sensible advice acquired after he had to make so many mistakes and unsuccessful expensive trips. In all his previous trips I did not notice anything sensible about his approach in finding the right woman to become his partner.  Every time was window shopping and nothing more.

2. I expect you noticed the changes and difference in his approach on his last trip, which looks is been very successful.

GAME

Right at the start of his 1st post on this thread he stated:

“I'd booked a trip to Moscow to visit a woman I'd been corresponding and chatting with daily for the last four months.

And

The woman I planned to meet, Irina, was the youngest FSU girl I've ever dated. She's 26, I'm 42. In the past, I discounted women in their 20s as too immature. But I'd come to know her well before I made plans to meet her. She works as an interior designer for the largest furniture store in Europe (I was there, it makes IKEA look like a bodega), owns her own 2BR flat just outside the center of Moscow, has a car and credit cards, and in June she'll earn her 2nd university degree.”

So before he went he had the chance to get to know her well enough, communicate with her DAILY and I am sure flirt her in his messages. Basically prepared the ground and it pays off now.

Then he gives away the biggest clue why this time he succeeded.

“What intrigued me about her, besides her beauty, sense of humor, and intelligence, was that she has a good life and doesn't need me for material support or for the promise of an easier life. “

That says it all!

Then further down he continues giving more clues.

“Thank God she was early ”
 
“She told me that the owner tried to jack the price up a few days before my arrival but that she was "sharp" with the owner, who'd backed down. She told me that the owner tried to jack the price up a few days before my arrival but that she was "sharp" with the owner, who'd backed down.”

“Irina had bought along some groceries and prepared a quick meal for us.”

“It was by far the best first date of my life. Irina wore a pair of low-slung jeans, showing off her perfectly flat stomach and awesome figure. She's easily a 9, and even in Moscow she elicited a lot of stares from local men. We held hands and talked, everything was perfectly natural and we had no problems communicating. She has a wonderful sense of humor and I had her laughing at every turn. Never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd hit it off so well. I suppose my trips and experiences with agency girls had left me a bit jaded. But Irina is not listed on any agency or personals site, our relationship began as a cautious friendship and evolved into romance, and her attitude and demeanor were so refreshing. I was sold. “

SET

Then the most importance stage arrives, where Iryna falls for him:

“Irina suddenly clutched her tummy and asked me to stop. Irina suddenly clutched her tummy and asked me to stop. “

“Irina phoned me around 10, just as I was getting antsy. She explained to me that she was feeling many conflicting emotions, and that she needed some time alone before she met me. “

“Her plan was that we'd visit her mom and step-dad for some sashlik”

“Irina and I had a heart-to-heart. She explained to me that she liked me very much, I was the tenderest and most considerate man she'd ever dated, but she didn't want to rush things.” 

Then nearly lost her by pushing hard.

“Irina explained that her mom and Sasha adored me”

“Irina explained to me that she liked me very much, etc., but I needed to be patient with her and give her time to get to know me.”

“As we waited for the metro to take her home, she told me that I must prepare myself for the possibility that she might say goodbye to me for good sometime during the next few days. I was shocked by this admission, but at the same time I admired her for her honesty,”

“I walked for two hours and I thought long and hard. I liked Irina a lot, she was the real deal. Only once before did I feel this strongly about an FSU girl I'd met, long ago. Irina was tender and sweet, very beautiful, and from all I could tell, very honest with me. I liked how she would give up her seat on the metro for an elderly person, how she always had a few rubles for needy babushkas. I realized I'd made things difficult by pressuring her to spend the night with me, to spend more time with me, to decide whether she wanted to be with me for the rest of my stay in Moscow. Up until now, the dozens of girls I met in Ukraine and Russia were agency girls, and they understood the rules of this "special" (and that's putting it as kindly as possible) courtship. I decided that I was going to try to win her, that I'd be patient with her and not pressure her. If at the end of the week she wasn't interested in seeing me again, I'd close up shop on the Russian/Ukrainian front and consider my travels something to entertain my grandkids with, if I had any.”

AND MATCH

“Then she turned serious and told me, "Mark, I long for you. I long for you." She explained that as soon as she arrived home, she realized she missed me terribly and phoned me to ask if she could come back and spend the night with me”

“…when she arrived she gave me a hug that nearly knocked the wind out of me”

“Irina and I settled in as a couple.””

“It was a great day, one I'll never forget.”


Of course I wish Mark all the best and I hope that this time as the title on this post says, “this time got it right!”.

I am sure he has!
 

[jb]

KenC;

It's not Groov's trip report RacerX is commenting on.

Somewhere along the way I must have stepped on Racer's toes, maybe on another board, maybe under another name, I don't remember it but he still holds a grudge.  If I say black, he's gonna say white, if I say right, he's gonna say left, it's just the way some people are. 

It never occurred to me that anyone would construe a "One Week Wonder" story out of it.  The way I read it, it's a work in progress with more to come.  Sounds like a winning plan to me, but others may disagree.

[PeeWee]

Wiz, that was well presented. I  have but one question. How the heck do you have the time to compose a retort like that? Mind you I am not questioning how you spend your free time but rather acknowleging that you post did require a significate investment of your time.

Peewee

[KenC]

Wiz,
I never said that groove didn't make his fair share of mistakes. As I have always told my children, there is no shame in making mistakes, the shame comes from not learning from them. So many times I have seen guys make some basic mistakes in this process, but then force the situation, mistake and all, into something it clearly was not. Groove did not do this. He regrouped, he learned and then proceeded to continue his quest armed with his new found knowledge. For that, he has my great respect. Obviously, others feel the same. His advice was sterling.
KenC

[KenC]

KenC;

It's not Groov's trip report RacerX is commenting on.

Somewhere along the way I must have stepped on Racer's toes, maybe on another board, maybe under another name, I don't remember it but he still holds a grudge.  If I say black, he's gonna say white, if I say right, he's gonna say left, it's just the way some people are. 

It never occurred to me that anyone would construe a "One Week Wonder" story out of it.  The way I read it, it's a work in progress with more to come.  Sounds like a winning plan to me, but others may disagree.

jb,
I know that Racerx has some hair up his butt for a long time now. It is so easy to snipe from afar like he does. Maybe I have missed it, but I have never read a post where Racerx has actually shared a thing about himself or his RW. Why is that? What is his story? If he ever steps up and shares something of value, I will listen. Until then, I will ignore his comments from the peanut gallery. Unless of course, he says something real foolish, like he just did.
KenC