Putin is Ruining Russia

[JayH]

как пояснил Slon военный эксперт Василий Сычев, выводы украинских СМИ носят несколько преждевременный характер.


«Нашивка сама по себе доказательством служить не может, потому что они продаются без документов. Любой желающий может себе купить такую или любую другую», — констатировал он.

Круглая нашивка морской пехоты РФ с золотым якорем действительно находится в открытой продаже. В частности, ее можно приобрести на «Яндекс.Маркете» по цене от 50 рублей за штуку.

So Doll

Are the Russian Army in Ukraine?

[Taz]

Of course Doll. I also happen to have SU-25, SU-27 and SU-35 Я только что купил их на рынке ... 


For those who don't know aircraft, these are 3 Russian military aircraft. To my knowledge the last has never been used other than by Russia. SO if you ever see these in Ukraine, they could only come from one place. They can try and play the game with the others and say somehow they found them somewhere... at the bazaar or market of course just like the patches that Doll claims were bought at the market...


The absurdity of these arguments gets greater by the minute. Still no Russian troops in Ukraine.

[AC]

как пояснил Slon военный эксперт Василий Сычев, выводы украинских СМИ носят несколько преждевременный характер.


«Нашивка сама по себе доказательством служить не может, потому что они продаются без документов. Любой желающий может себе купить такую или любую другую», — констатировал он.

Круглая нашивка морской пехоты РФ с золотым якорем действительно находится в открытой продаже. В частности, ее можно приобрести на «Яндекс.Маркете» по цене от 50 рублей за штуку.

Doll, I think you responded to the wrong person.  It was Mendeleyev who posted the video about Russian marines at the airport in Donetsk.  (typical Russian denial -- you can purchase the patch on the open market, allegedly.  Of course then you would need to sew it on your jacket, and if a Separatist leader saw it, he would tell you to take it off.  Or Russian Federation soldiers are fighting in Ukraine)

[Brasscasing]

I just spent some time reviewing a larger portion of the you tube vid here.

***http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm96-S2i6OY***

However, as the airport appears to have fallen to the Russians discussing it is moot.

edit: Don't seem to be able to attach the youtube vid so copy paste to your browser minus the askerisks

Brass

[Anotherkiwi]

Me too?  I am a fan of Auckland and the North Island.

My home town...apart from the horrendously unaffordable property prices, it's paradise.

Maybe you should spend your honeymoon here  - or even tie the knot in some romantic setting, as so many Japanese tourists do.

[lordtiberius]

Brass, I know that discussing the Donetsk airport seizure is moot, but let's be clear.  This is not Barack Obama's fault right?

[Brasscasing]

Brass, I know that discussing the Donetsk airport seizure is moot, but let's be clear.  This is not Barack Obama's fault right?

If by fault you're referring to lack of military aid I'd say there's plenty of blame to go around. The West/NATO as an organization, EU and the U.S. (Canada as well)all need to wake up. Putin's not going away.

History is going to flay President Obama. Not just for Ukraine but how he handled most foreign policy and affairs during his administration. However, to be fair no other western leader is stepping up either at this point.

We keep expecting more from him as the leader of the free world (and other leaders as well) but it's not going to come. It's simply not in him. I posted months ago that unless something drastically changes we'll need to wait out the two years for any significant changes in policy towards Ukraine from the U.S.

Brass

[mendeleyev]

Doll, if you look at the video, , the demeanor of the soldier gives the impression of a professional soldier. That was not some coal miner who found a Marine patch at the outdoor market. You also have the issue of verification by Lenta, a Russian state owned news organization.

[lordtiberius]

So nothing is his fault?  That's a relief.  I would hate for a nuclear war to interrupt Game of Thrones.  I heard he is picking Seattle to win the Super Bowl, is that true?

[mendeleyev]

Another humanitarian convoy to feed the starving Donbas baby cannibals. These brave volunteers on holiday found a bunch of Grad rocket launchers on sale at the market, and undoubtedly have loaded food, bottled water, and medicines under the tarps. Any resemblance to rocket launchers is purely coincidental.

[lordtiberius]

With the LNR and DNR depopulated will Andrew Wilson build apartments for the new settlers?

[Muzh]

как пояснил Slon военный эксперт Василий Сычев, выводы украинских СМИ носят несколько преждевременный характер.


«Нашивка сама по себе доказательством служить не может, потому что они продаются без документов. Любой желающий может себе купить такую или любую другую», — констатировал он.

Круглая нашивка морской пехоты РФ с золотым якорем действительно находится в открытой продаже. В частности, ее можно приобрести на «Яндекс.Маркете» по цене от 50 рублей за штуку.

I'm sorry but don't understand shit.

[AC]

I'm sorry but don't understand shit.

She's claiming that the shoulder patch could be purchased on the open market and therefore that was not a Russian soldier.  Here was my response to her nonsense.

Doll, I think you responded to the wrong person.  It was Mendeleyev who posted the video about Russian marines at the airport in Donetsk.  (typical Russian denial -- you can purchase the patch on the open market, allegedly.  Of course then you would need to sew it on your jacket, and if a Separatist leader saw it, he would tell you to take it off.  Or Russian Federation soldiers are fighting in Ukraine)

[jone]

Guess what's showing up now in Ukraine?



For those who don't know, this is a T80.  It is being used in the pocket of Ukrainian resistance.  T80s were considered to be a secret weapon, back in the 1980s so none of the immediate Eastern European countries were given them.  They were later sporadically distributed, with South Korea buying some from Russia.  However, Ukraine was never given any and never purchased any. 

This weapon must have been stolen from an arms depot in Russia by arms dealers who later sold it to Ukraine at a huge mark up who later had it appropriated by the DNR for use against Ukrainian soldiers.   

[BillyB]

Guess what's showing up now in Ukraine?

this is a T80.

Not Russia's top of the line tank by far but it is an improvement over what they've sent into Ukraine. Putin is anticipating Ukraine getting weapons from the West and getting a head start. Unfortunately I've read if Obama gives weapons, it'll be defensive weapons. It would be hard for Ukraine to gain back the territories they've lost without offensive weapons. The West is desperate to make a deal since the Ukrainian soldiers are getting their butts kicked in the last two weeks. Historically, when Russian troops control territory, they don't lose it.


Last chance for peace

[Brasscasing]

Not Russia's top of the line tank by far but it is an improvement over what they've sent into Ukraine. Putin is anticipating Ukraine getting weapons from the West and getting a head start. Unfortunately I've read if Obama gives weapons, it'll be defensive weapons. It would be hard for Ukraine to gain back the territories they've lost without offensive weapons. The West is desperate to make a deal since the Ukrainian soldiers are getting their butts kicked in the last two weeks. Historically, when Russian troops control territory, they don't lose it.

Hopefully, the idea would be to give them weapons they can train on and deploy quickly.

MAWs are the way to go. They're inexpensive easy to ship/supply, minimum time to provide training and can be deployed straight to combat (self contained no assembly required). Best of all Russian tanks are vulnerable to them.

Even the old Carl Gs are still effective and resupply is close by (Sweden). The Baltic countries have been buying them up in droves anticipating a Russian invasion sooner than later. Smart move.

Ukraine's military fortified with Javs and Carl Gs would be capable of neutralizing the advantage in armored numbers the Russians now enjoy.

So far Russia hasn't had to employ much infantry support to keep their tanks safe relying on the fact Ukraine has little in the way of anti tank assets basically allowing the Russian armor to operate unopposed. This would change considerably if shoulder mounted edit; missile launchers entered the fray.

Brass

[lordtiberius]

You read Charlie Wilson's war and he talks about getting the Muj the right weapons mix.  That is what Ukraine needs.  The Atlantic Council report led by Strobe Talbot speaks to what that mix might look like.  Even then it is weak incremental approach but its better than nothing.

What is getting Ukrainians killed is their own general staff.  The Russians concede this.  Russian battlefield decision making is twice or three times faster than Kiev.  If Kiev doesn't reform its General Staff, there will be a Euromaidan 2.0

For Billy,

http://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/16856?dm_i=1TYG,364WG,BI3M9E,BCX08,1#

[Photo Guy]

Mr. Putin,
What should Ukraine do, if the separatists invade Mariupol'?

Debaltseve?

Berdyansk?

Zaporizhia?

...What does Putin think about the expansion of the rebels' territory?
Negotiators should now focus on that question, and expose Putin's response.

[Boethius]

For all of you global thinkers out there ......

The biggest threat to freedom in America does not come from Russia and the parochial involvement in Ukraine.  Instead it comes from ISIS and the Islamic fundamentalists. 

http://www.rferl.org/content/islamic-state-funding-russian-web-payments-qiwi/27021379.html

[The Natural]

So many nazi symphatizers in a row.... it ain't pretty but it is pathetic, haha

[Boethius]

I ask you to give proof of the evidence of Nazis or Nazi sympathizers.  You fail to do so, because you cannot.  So either put up or shut up.

[lordtiberius]

So many nazi symphatizers in a row.... it ain't pretty but it is pathetic, haha

What is pathetic is that you fail to argue and thus persuade others to your point of view.  You descend into name calling like that will win us all over.  And you really do not know what you are speaking about.  You know nothing about Nazis or Nazism and you are defending Putin, Yanukovych and thugs like them.  Whatever . . .

I will say this in your defense.  You are not a liar.  So take a victory lap.

[The Natural]

I ask you to give proof of the evidence of Nazis or Nazi sympathizers.  You fail to do so, because you cannot.  So either put up or shut up.

From a Source you can believe in, Reuters:

"This law echoes a recent trend of glorifying right-wing Ukrainian nationalist organizations with controversial pasts. Under former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko, a number of leading Ukrainian nationalists were honored with a memorial at Babi Yar — site of the single-worst massacre of Jews during the Holocaust. Yushchenko also bestowed the highest government honor of “Hero of Ukraine” upon the controversial former OUN leader Stepan Bandera — a step roundly condemned by the chief rabbi of Ukraine, the president of Poland and the European Union.

More recently, radical nationalists played a key role as “shock troops” on the Maidan, and the anti-government camp was full of OUN-UPA flags and cries of “Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!” — chants that originated with the OUN. Currently, a number of OUN-UPA apologists occupy important government positions, including the minister of education, the head of the Security Service of Ukraine and the director of the Ukrainian government’s Institute of National Memory. Even Poroshenko has gotten into the act, laying a wreath in honor of the OUN at Babi Yar last year.

The draft law has a number of downsides beyond the moral problem of giving the OUN and UPA a free pass for atrocious crimes. Most obviously, making criticism of Holocaust perpetrators illegal is not compatible with Ukraine’s European ambitions. It is natural that many Ukrainians would wish to define themselves in opposition to the former Soviet Union, but as a budding democracy, banning criticism of any organizations — particularly those with such dark pasts — is the wrong way to build national identity.

Kiev also must remember that its conflict with Putin’s Russia is taking place in cyberspace as well as the Donbass. Kiev has now handed the Kremlin “evidence” for Putin’s claim that Russia is facing off against fascists. Not surprisingly, Russian state-owned media outlets have had a field day condemning the law."

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/05/14/putin-ties-ukraines-government-to-neo-nazis-a-new-law-seems-to-back-him-up/

I could, if I had the time and I thought it would make ANY difference at all, link to numerous articles and photos of members of the different Battalions wering swastikas and doing the Hail Hitler salute, including Mendeley's beloved Azov Battalion.

In light of the recent visit by Kerry to Sochi to meet Lavrov and Putin, it MIGHT signal a little different tune in western media about this as they are increasingly more embarrased by the behaviour of the nazi freaks in Kiev. Seems you anti-Russian lot here will be left holding the bag for Your nazi friends in the end, haha.

[The Natural]

What is pathetic is that you fail to argue and thus persuade others to your point of view.  You descend into name calling like that will win us all over.  And you really do not know what you are speaking about.  You know nothing about Nazis or Nazism and you are defending Putin, Yanukovych and thugs like them.  Whatever . . .

I will say this in your defense.  You are not a liar.  So take a victory lap.

Make up Your mind, man. Last time you DID Call me a liar. Name calling is for a Group, not individuals, so that's alright in my book.

If I don't know what I'm talking about, why are you so angry then?
And no, I never defended Yanukovich except to say, which is true, that he was the legally elected President of Ukraine until the nazi junta took over. Why didn't they wait for the election?

[Boethius]

Your links do not prove that the government in Kyiv is fascist, which is something you have always asserted, yet failed to prove.


Are there extreme right wing groups in Ukraine?  Of course there are.  I have never denied it.  But they are very small in number, and garner less then one tenth of the support that extremist right wing parties in Europe do, including your very own country.


In Western Ukraine, that "hotbed of fascists", well over half the population does not view Bandera favourably, and never has.


Why did Yushchenko decide to create a controversial tribute to Bandera?  Because he wanted to ensure he won the election (when running against Tymoshenko), and thought this was one of the ways to do so.