Putin is Ruining Russia

[lordtiberius]

Taz, thank you for your service.

The latest Russian excuse is that the Ukrop jets used civilian aircraft to mask their signal.  Simon Ostrovsky reporting.  Thoughts?

[AC]

The last time the US shot down a civilian aircraft to my knowledge was in 1988. The fire and control systems are typically improved since then.


Do I 100% believe that the Russians knew it was a civilian aircraft before firing, no. I do think they were very trigger happy and if they weren't in such a hurry less likely to make mistakes. The rules of engagement now for the US are so restrictive it is very hard to even protect yourself. My son is in the Navy and he was shocked at what it will take for his ships to even be able to defend themselves now.


Here is some more info in English and Russian about Strelkov.


http://www.interpretermag.com/was-col-strelkovs-dispatch-about-a-downed-ukrainian-plane-authentic/


Some interesting info here from the Dutch. Look down the page a bit.


http://ukraine-truth.com/category/debunked-soviet-propaganda/

I have a hard time believing it was done on purpose.  More likely they were giddy and trigger happy thinking it was a Ukrainian military plane of some sort.  Certainly the Russians are legally responsible.  I don't know what the precedent is for suing a country over this sort of thing but in the past the Soviets refused to admit responsibility and paid nothing.

[Doll]

This new headline caught my attention. Just another reason not to trust Russia. Threats and more threats.
Gazprom warns EU to link to Turkey pipeline or lose Russian gas

Why is it the reason not to trust?
Russia wants this pipeline not to go through Ukraine.
Turkey, Greece and so on.

[sleepycat]

Why is it the reason not to trust?
The midget mongoloid president of Russia wants this pipeline not to go through Ukraine.
Turkey, Greece and so on.

Empty threat if ever there is one..
Right, as if that mongoloid can afford to lose the gas revenue from Europe, now that oil price has cratered.

[Doll]

It WILL go to Europe but not through Ukraine.

[Doll]

[sleepycat]

That midget Putin is even more retarded that I thought possible...
Yeah, tell Western Europe they have to spend billions to build connecting pipes to Turkey just to get Russian gas.
Smart move midget, pricing yourself out of the European gas market.
Their competitors will be more than happy to increase gas supply to the European market now that Putler is going to shoot himself in the foot.

[lordtiberius]

I hope it does go to $ 20

[Doll]

I hope it does go to $ 20

it is 48 today

[AC]

it s 48 today

48 is about half what Putin needs to pay the bills of the Russian Federation.  Nobody will loan him money, since Russia's credit rating is now near junk bond status.

I thought you said oil would go back up to $80 per barrel early this year.  What happened?

[Taz]

This has torn apart quite a few families. My wife's family is Russian but most live in Ukraine now. Many family members came from Crimea for our wedding. At first they weren't opposed (nor strongly in favor) of Crimea being more autonomous from Ukraine. Now they absolutely hate it. They said all the forums in Sevastopol for example immediately ban any anti-Russian people who might post. They talk about Russians showing up to take people's business with basically soldiers in tow to "liberate" their businesses from the previous Ukrainian owners. I won't even talk about how my friends that are Crimean Tatars are being treated.


The only reason Putin has really had as much influence over the normal Russian populace is because oil was strong and he bought off people with the money and trying to crush anyone who spoke against him. I was living in Moscow at the time when he first used the old "tax evasion" ploy to shut down the primary news channel that was speaking against him.


Just like Putin, most of the nationalist Russians here don't want to discuss the real facts. They live in their propaganda world. I was definitely not anti-Russian before now but they have earned my contempt now. Same was true for the Israeli-Palestine conflict. I didn't have much of an opinion before about who was right. After having gone to Israel and the Palestinian Territory I now can see Israel is right but the news media hides the Palestinian aggression just like the Russian media does for Putin and his non-existent army in Ukraine.


To totally destroy almost any Russian's argument about the war in Ukraine is to prove there is one tank that came from Russia. Putin claims there are no Russian soldiers (except on vacation) in Ukraine. Last time I served I wasn't allowed to drive a tank off the base and into a foreign country. Or in my case I wasn't allowed to fly a close air support fighter into enemy territory for a few days R & R. Give me a little seat time with a Warthog or Hornet and I could have some fun providing some force projection into Eastern Ukraine.


Now there is a grand idea. Maybe I could round up some old flight buddies to go on "vacation" in Eastern Ukraine. Works for Putin... why not for us too?

[Taz]

I was in Ukraine and Europe for an extended period of time recently. I heard something that was very disturbing that the Russians were doing to captured Ukrainian soldiers. Before posting something as incredible as what I heard, I want to do more research into. If I were ever to hear that one of my fellow soldiers did something like this to a captured prisoner I would like shoot my fellow soldier for something as despicable as what I heard.


Stay tuned and I'll see if I can find any English references for what I heard.


I can't verify if it is true or not. Some say yes, some say no, but allegedly some Ukrainian soldier was castrated by the Russian terrorists/rebels. I am hoping it is false as this would be a new low even for the Russians. I don't have any more time to waste trying to find concrete references as I have to get back to work. Since I can't find any real proof or source that I trust, I'll likely not true for now.

[calmissile]

It WILL go to Europe but not through Ukraine.

Anything we can do to expedite it?     

[Taz]

Putin is now trying to squeeze Europe even more with gas tactics again.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-14/russia-cuts-ukraine-gas-supply-6-european-countries?


Here is a real laugh. Russian warning about using force in Eastern Ukraine to resolve the conflict. Oh wait, isn't that what these lying, hypocritical POS are doing themselves????


http://www.china.org.cn/world/2015-01/15/content_34562717.htm?


Russia can go pound sand!


And finally another US Senator gets it right!


http://sputniknews.com/us/20150115/1016908511.html?


Put the the screws to Putin even more. California has a bigger economy than Russia does. Pretty sad that just one state in America has great economic output than all of mother Russia.

[Doll]

Putin is not "squeezing Europe"- he has do it because only a suicider will keep transiting gas through Ukraine. If you have a major problem with your neighbor  will you keep your wallet in his house? No.

[sleepycat]

The midget mongoloid Putin is not "squeezing Europe"- he has do it because only a suicider will keep transiting gas through Ukraine. If you have a major problem with your neighbor  will you keep your wallet in his house? No.

There's an idea Einstein...
Maybe if you hadn't stolen your neighbor's backyard then you wouldn't have a major problem with this neighbor. 

[AkMike]

Nah SC, that'd make too much sense! 

 It's gotta be more complicated and unbelieveable for her to believe it! 

[Doll]

Believe what- that Putin is squeezing Europe?
He is interested in selling gas to Europe but doesn't want risks. This new line will cost extra, but it will be safer. There is one more line n the North that will be used more than now.
Poroshenko can produce his own gas 

[sleepycat]

Believe what- that the mongoloid I Putin is squeezing Europe?
He is interested in selling gas to Europe but doesn't want risks. This new line will cost extra, but it will be safer.

Good luck to the midget getting the money to build this new pipeline network.
Maybe he can try to finance the project by issuing some junk bonds. 

[Taz]

Doll - do you really think this will end well for Russia? Putin had years to help diversify the Russian economy and did nothing. You are too reliant on oil and gas. Look past your misplaced nationalistic pride and see how many people are suffering in Russia now as well as all the people in Eastern Ukraine because of Russian aggression.


Stop drinking the kool-aid and looking at this conflict through rose colored Putin propaganda glasses. Be intellectually honest. I have never been anti-Russian before. I have not really cared much for Putin (ever) but the longer the average Russian supports Putin, the more they become part of the problem.


Putin is doing nothing to help your country. All he has done is support the oligarchs. I hope you are not clueless and are aware of the Rotenberg Law. Are you familiar with it Doll? Once again Putin shafted the normal Russians to protect his buddies the oligarchs. Basically the law states that if any Russian oligarch loses any assets abroad (in foreign countries) then the Kremlin will repay the oligarchs for their lost assets. So how actually pays the oligarchs back, not the Kremlin but YOU, the Russian sheeple! Who is paying for the vast inflation and devaluation of the Ruble? You! The Russian sheeple again. Sure a oligarch may have lost a billion or a few hundred million but he still has millions or billions left. He still can survive pretty well with maybe a few less trips to Monaco but the average Russian is getting screwed.


At this point I hope Russia gets what they deserve. If I were president of the US I would bomb the Russian troops and separatists back to the stone ages and make sure Putin never attempted any such aggression in my lifetime. As bad as our idiot President needs to go Putin needs to leave even sooner.

[Doll]

Taz, Russia can really gain from this crisis (which was staged, I am more than sure)- I mean developing industry and agriculture.
BTW, with Putin, life's become much better for people.
I left Russia in 2002, then every visit I saw huge improvements. I mean HUGE.
Russia has a gigantic potential that can and will be used now.
So, yes- it will end well for Russia.

[Doll]

At this point I hope Russia gets what they deserve. If I were president of the US I would bomb the Russian troops and separatists back to the stone ages and make sure Putin never attempted any such aggression in my lifetime. As bad as our idiot President needs to go Putin needs to leave even sooner.

So you are calling for the Global war?
I really love this forum.

Have you read the news today? About the guy who was plotted to bomb DC?

[Doll]

.


 

At this point I hope Russia gets what they deserve. If I were president of the US I would bomb the Russian troops and separatists back to the stone ages and make sure Putin never attempted any such aggression in my lifetime. As bad as our idiot President needs to go Putin needs to leave even sooner.

Just in case

[Taz]

Putin should have made reforms sometime ago but all he did was encourage more corruption.


Putin is NOT the cause of the improvement for the average Russian, the rise in oil prices was along with FOREIGN investment in Russia. Go to almost any country that had an oil based economy and you will generally see better living conditions and growth over the time Russia saw growth. It wasn't Putins magic at work. The only magic Putin has is making people disappear. Russian has continuously been at the top of the list for the most dangerous countries in the world for journalists.


Say anything against his regime and you magically disappear or commit suicide even while on vacation. Putin is a purely a thug and criminal, albeit a well educated one. Any illusion of freedom in Russia is just that; an illusion. Speak out against Putin and his oligarchs and you have a very short lifespan or something bad happens to your business. No civilization can truly prosper under such an environment. As goes oil, so goes Putin.


If things end well for Russia, it will be despite Putin's efforts, not because of them. Putin will only make the reforms when he has not other choice and only then. Almost all businesses now are more and more state controlled or quasi-state controlled. There is almost no free market. Putin and his cronies get richer and they sometime through just enough to the commoners to keep them from unrest. Problem is now there is no surplus money to buy off the populace. If it goes on too long, the Russian sheeple will suffer even more for no reason at all except for Putin's ego.

[Taz]

So you are calling for the Global war?
I really love this forum.

Have you read the news today? About the guy who was plotted to bomb DC?

My father always said, don't start a fight unless you are willing to finish it. Why would it be a global war? Let me ask you the same question. Is Putin trying to start a global war? Who was the aggressor here? CLEARLY Putin and Russia. So don't blame me for wanting to put a quick end to it. It might have saved those 13 civilians killed by a Grad rocket attack just yesterday in Ukraine. Thirteen innocent people died as a result of Russian supply of arms and quite likely Russians were responsible for the launch of rockets 13 innocent lives.


Somebody should have stood up to Hitler sooner and there would have been no WWII. Russian continues to invade countries airspace with no permission. They are the ones trying to provoke a reaction. Punch the idiot bully in the nose and you will typically shut him up. Better to wipe out a few thousand Russian troops that supposedly AREN'T in Ukraine according to Putin. So apparently there would be no loss of life since according to Putin there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine.


So better to stop the conflict while small than to let it spiral out of control. In addition it has been Russia claiming they would consider using nuclear weapons in even a "small" conflict. Stop Putin and his madness now or watch this spiral out of control.