Poroshenko claims Ukraine is now being offered weapons by NATO.

[Gator]

Kiev is very close in accepting the VERY SAME deal in Eastern Ukraine (self-governance/representation or outright autonomy) which they initially refused.

The terms of the ceasefire are not the terms of a settlement.  The ceasefire is designed merely to stop hostilities so diplomacy can work and negotiate a peaceful settlement.  Will it happen?   If I were Kiev, I would not accept anything less than Russia's withdrawal confirmed by independent and unfettered observers.  And that will not happen without accepting some level of self-autonomy. 

I agree with you that it does not appear NATO will come to the aid of the Ukrainians with anything substantial.  I guess NATO is too busy building up in NATO member states bordering Russia, wondering who is next.

[Chelseaboy]

So,you still haven't answered my questions with a straight answer...getting uncomfortable there are we GQ ?..

I see you're having to resort to personal insults,your normal mode of operation on here..so predictable 

As for your previous comment about ex -convicts...once again you're living in the past..since when have a convicts future children been held accountable for his past misdeeds ?..only in your own little world obviously

Now,so this can sink into your little brain..here are some facts.Russia has invaded Ukraine and stolen it's land this year and guess what ? Yessss that's  in your lifetime..not in the past..but now,so let's stick to the present shall we ?

If and when England invades another country,killing it's people and steals it's land in your lifetime,then you can come back to me..got it ?

We're all well aware of your distaste for the west ,and your  tedious and repetitive conspiracy theories,none of which have been proven..but hey you stay in your own little world.

[GQBlues]

So,you still haven't answered my questions with a straight answer...getting uncomfortable there are we GQ ?..

I see you're having to resort to personal insults,your normal mode of operation on here..so predictable 

As for your previous comment about ex -convicts...once again you're living in the past..since when have a convicts future children been held accountable for his past misdeeds ?..only in your own little world obviously

Now,so this can sink into your little brain..here are some facts.Russia has invaded Ukraine and stolen it's land this year and guess what ? Yessss that's  in your lifetime..not in the past..but now,so let's stick to the present shall we ?

If and when England invades another country,killing it's people and steals it's land in your lifetime,then you can come back to me..got it ?

We're all well aware of your distaste for the west ,and your  tedious and repetitive conspiracy theories,none of which have been proven..but hey you stay in your own little world.

OY!

Dude...study your history.  It is fast becoming you're much too ignorant of it to be allowed loose in the internet.

[Chelseaboy]

And you're too ignorant about everything to be let loose on the internet,but unfortunately we have to put up with your inane ramblings.

[fathertime]

If and when England invades another country,killing it's people and steals it's land in your lifetime,then you can come back to me..got it ?

Yeah GQ you leave England out of this! Just because they colonized and enslaved half the world and have been riding that unfair advantage ever since, that doesn't mean there's anything behind the curtain.  So be a good little chap and stop pointing out the gross hypocrisy being displayed.  After all look at all the Russian speaking colonies flung all around the world.

Fathertime!

[LiveFromUkraine]

Russia has a habit, through Gazprom, of using gas as political leverage.  It has been able to do that with Ukraine, which is a weak state, and to some degree, with the EU, because EU countries had extensive business interests in Russia.  But, it appears those days  are over.  Russia has signed a contract with China that all experts have stated is far, far, less lucrative than its sales to the EU.  This crisis has also awoken the EU to the dangers of relying on a thug regime for its gas.  It may as well deal with Iran.

Bo, using things like gas or banking as political leverage seems pretty normal nowadays.  Ask the Swiss.  haha

[Chelseaboy]

Ahhh here's the other HUGE hypocrite on here..Fathertime,they say birds of a feather stick together LOL.

Fathertime,you're another one who pontificates on here about how evil the west is..yet continue to live there.

Why don't you get off your ass and go and live in Russia,then at least you'll have a crumb of credibility on here.

I'll say something about the Russians,unlike you they're not cowardly and they have national pride in their country..something which is beyond your comprehension.

You have no interest in anybody but yourself..as long as you're ok,you don't care who lives or dies.

All your postings are me me me..please don't send troops anywhere USA,i might get involved in a war ..pleeeease.

[Boethius]

Those *who stormed buildings in Ukraine* are not official representative of the bodies at work Boethius. Anymore than you can say those who looted in Ferguson are representative of the neighborhood's cause. You're just trying to be coy here. 

No, those who stormed the buildings are exactly the same ones who declared themselves the leaders of their "republics" and demanded independence. 

The Rada fight occurred because the communist party wanted more leverage in their respective regions.

No, in Symonenko's speech, he accused Svoboda of being the cause of the problems in Eastern Ukraine. 

[fathertime]

Ahhh here's the other HUGE hypocrite on here..Fathertime,they say birds of a feather stick together LOL.

Fathertime,you're another one who pontificates on here about how evil the west is..yet continue to live there.

Why don't you get off your ass and go and live in Russia,then at least you'll have a crumb of credibility on here.

I'll say something about the Russians,unlike you they're not cowardly and they have national pride in their country..something which is beyond your comprehension.

You have no interest in anybody but yourself..as long as you're ok,you don't care who lives or dies.

All your postings are me me me..please don't send troops anywhere USA,i might get involved in a war ..pleeeease.

Looks like you need a third grade vocabulary review..lets see if I can help you.

1st... defining a hypocrite as a person that doesn't want his country to get involved with another isn't a proper definition. a hypocrite is an english man who cries foul because another country is taking away another potential slave state

2nd...because a person has a love of country doesn't make them 'brave'.  you probably delight in your county's conquest, but you don't appear brave. .. Do you understand chap?

Now onto YOU...every whining post is 'putin' this 'putin' that putin putin putin. ...yeah I'd rather focus on myself and my county's actions,  rather impotently whine about 'putin'...our country isn't about to break up like yours yet..too bad first you lose all your colonies, and now the little country doesn't even want to stay together...good...

I think I'll stay right where I am and continue speaking out against our ridiculous foreign policy that good old great Britain follows along with like a good puppy dog.

Fathertime!

[missAmeno]

They will never understand Russian mentality Great Russian Chauvinism.

Fixed.

[AC]

The $350 per thousand cubic meters you cite, Belvis, is analysts' speculation, as the terms of the contract are not disclosed.


Western Europe paid, on average, $380.50 per thousand cubic meters to Gazprom in 2013.  Eastern Europe paid more.

It should be obvious why the terms of the contract have not been disclosed.  If the analysts estimates are close, then it's obvious that Russia is losing in the long term, and China is winning.  China clearly had the better position to bargain from at the start of these negotiations (this time around).

[GQBlues]

No, those who stormed the buildings are exactly the same ones who declared themselves the leaders of their "republics" and demanded independence....

No one can *demand* independence, Boe..you can demand, initiate, enact and ultimately vote on a referendum for independence, but not in of itself 'independence'. You'll need a general consensus for a legitimate *demand independence*. IINM, even Putin at the time that such a declaration was silly. He hailed Ukraine's move for an early (May) presidential election to a step in the right direction to help quell the conflict in eastern Ukraine. Even followed that up in a meeting in France the following month.

The bottom line in this is, it would seem at this point, since obviously military actions will prove futile to establish peace in the region, that all the loses were simply idiotic if the east do in fact establishes full autonomy when they could've avoided all of these had they waited for the next presidential election term.     

...No, in Symonenko's speech, he accused Svoboda of being the cause of the problems in Eastern Ukraine.

...and henceforth a protracted representation of the region but instead they were ushered out. Boe...how many fights had happened in the Rada since January? 4-5? How many since the illegal coup? 2-3? Who are we kidding here when we say these  are all for 'change' in Ukraine?

I do hate to have to daily read Ukrainians dying for all these stupidity by people hungry for power.

[AC]

Do you realize that factual events are historical in nature, C-Boy? You can't be this dense. If it hasn't happened, regardless of certainty, then it is not *yet* a factual event.

So, to lay out *factual* information, one must present things that had already occurred and are known to be factual.

An ex-convict is simply that, an ex-convict. His behavior in the future doesn't take away from the fact he was previously convicted of a crime.

Think very slowly on this one so it doesn't confuse you any further.

 

I don't know the precise figures but I suspect that Imperial Russia is close to Great Britain for having done the things you mentioned.  Chechnya was originally "conquered" in the 19th Century.

[GQBlues]

I don't know the precise figures but I suspect that Imperial Russia is close to Great Britain for having done the things you mentioned.  Chechnya was originally "conquered" in the 19th Century.

...now go share that with C-Boy.

[Chelseaboy]

Fathertime,

                 England is my country..since when is it about to  break up ?

A hypocrite is someone who is happy to accept all the benefits of living in a country,but constantly whines about how bad that country is.The hypocrite of course won't actually choose to live in another country that he defends no matter whatever the actions of that country are.

As for Putin,you know the guy you won't have a word said against,ask Ukrainian people how they feel about him..try a few Georgians too.

What's up..did a few Ukrainian girls reject you ? Can't say i'm surprised if they did..they like MEN.

As for bravery,well i've served my time in the Fleet Air Arm..and i've been to war,so once again you show your ignorance.

Keep making yourself look stupid though.

[AC]

Fixed.

Interesting article about the rebirth of Russian chauvinism:


"President Vladimir Putin is not as all-powerful as the czars or Joseph Stalin, but he has effectively emasculated domestic opposition to his rule. The institutions of a liberal democracy exist in his Russia – political parties, elections, news media – but they are paper airplanes against his steel.

He will, by such means as he deems appropriate, restore Russia to its past greatness, as he defines it. He will rewrite Russian school texts, give large latitude to the Orthodox Church, execute grand projects (such as the Sochi Olympics), allow oligarchs to enrich themselves provided that they support him (just as oligarchs did in czarist times), deploy the agencies of the state to produce internal revenues and secure domestic order, and extend Russia’s influence, where possible, over contiguous geographic territories – be they in Central Asia, the Caucusus, Belarus and now Ukraine.

Ukraine is where the shoe pinches most, because it is splintered between its western Ukrainian-speaking portion, which looks to Europe, and its Russian-speaking eastern portion, which gazes at Moscow. Ukraine is large in geography but weak in almost everything else: energy dependent, badly governed, much indebted. No amount of nostalgia or Ukrainian diaspora support can mask these weaknesses, the reality of which Mr. Putin completely understands."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/the-return-of-great-russian-chauvinism/article17298477/

[fathertime]

Fathertime,

                 England is my country..since when is it about to  break up ?

A hypocrite is someone who is happy to accept all the benefits of living in a country,but constantly whines about how bad that country is.The hypocrite of course won't actually choose to live in another country that he defends no matter whatever the actions of that country are.

As for Putin,you know the guy you won't have a word said against,ask Ukrainian people how they feel about him..try a few Georgians too.

What's up..did a few Ukrainian girls reject you ? Can't say i'm surprised if they did..they like MEN.

As for bravery,well i've served my time in the Fleet Air Arm..and i've been to war,so once again you show your ignorance.

Keep making yourself look stupid though.

I'm glad I could help you with definitions of the basic 3rd grade words...I noticed reading isn't a strong point for you either so maybe that will be next. 


I enjoyed my brief time in Ukraine....the lady I spent most of my time with was strictly pro-Russian...and anti 'orange revolution' in 2005....


You don't act much like a man, so I am not surprised you are sitting alone....women do like men that take care of THEIR business....not get involved in everyone elses....
lets hear some more 'putin this' 'putin that' since it will take your mind off your own soon to be broken country!


Fathertime!   

[GQBlues]

...
A hypocrite is someone who is happy to accept all the benefits of living in a country,but constantly whines about how bad that country is.The hypocrite of course won't actually choose to live in another country that he defends no matter whatever the actions of that country are....

No. That's called 'freedom' and 'democracy'. Having the ability not only to choose your leaders through election (eherm...not bloodlines), and the ability to call out and criticize your government whom you feel runs afoul.

A hypocrite is condemning a society of a nation for the action of it's leader/s in doing exactly the same things his own country's leaders have done.

Sort of like a robber calling out thief.

Now which part of YOUR nation's criminal history you want to start with?

[Gator]

If anyone wants to examine brutal treatment of colonies, you should Google the history of  Belgium in the Congo.

[Russian123]

If anyone wants to examine brutal treatment of colonies, you should Google the history of  Belgium in the Congo.

Thank you, Gator. You reminded me:
Heart of Darkness by Josef Conrad - classic, highly acclaimed book about Congo and Belgium colonial administrators, written by a 'giant of English literature'.
Josef Conrad original name was Jozef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski, he was born in 19th century in a city near Kiev, that is in Russia.
Who was Josef Conrad? English or Polish or Russian or Ukranian?
Are we to despise him and find 'rotten to the core', because Russian Empire had been 'pacifying' multiple nations right at that time?

[Boethius]

Conrad always self identified as a Pole, so I suppose we should consider him Polish. 

I am not certain a writer who never viewed himself as Russian, and left the Russian Empire to settle in England is really the best example of a Russian.

[Gator]

Thank you, Gator. You reminded me:
Heart of Darkness by Josef Conrad

Great read, many, many years ago when I had the travel bug.  Not that long if I recall correctly.  Thanks for refreshing my memory.

Based on what I later read about life in Africa circa 1900, Conrad did not adequately describe the brutal treatment of the Congolese peoples by white rulers and farmers.   To quote one source:

Most have never heard of Belgium’s King Leopold II, but he should be regarded as a tyrant up there with Hitler and Stalin. Under his tyrannical rule over the modern-day Democratic Republic of Congo, about 10 million people – or half the population – died horrible deaths.  Millions were forced to collect sap from rubber plants; those that missed their quotas had their hands chopped off.

The French and British were more civil, yet don't say that to Kenya, India, Ireland, Vietnam, etc. 

[Chelseaboy]

Hey Fathertime,

                       Have you worked out the difference between a country and a Kingdom yet ?

Maybe you'd better learn that before you start pontificating about the affairs of other countries.

I see someone else has noticed what a coward you are..it's not difficult though,your posts reek of it.

[Anotherkiwi]

Based on what I later read about life in Africa circa 1900, Conrad did not adequately describe the brutal treatment of the Congolese peoples by white rulers and farmers.   To quote one source:

Most have never heard of Belgium’s King Leopold II, but he should be regarded as a tyrant up there with Hitler and Stalin. Under his tyrannical rule over the modern-day Democratic Republic of Congo, about 10 million people – or half the population – died horrible deaths.  Millions were forced to collect sap from rubber plants; those that missed their quotas had their hands chopped off.

To be fair to King Leopold, I would think it highly unlikely that he personally told the farmers to chop off the hands of the local peasantry if they didn't fill their buckets, or that he expressed any preference as to what sort of torture to inflict.  With central Africa being a long way from Belgium, and the lack of communications facilities at the time, it would take months for any edicts or news to travel in either direction.  Any telegraph offices that there may have been would surely have existed only in the capital at the time.

Hitler and Stalin, however, knew exactly what was going on throughout their empires, because they themselves were the architects of so much of the genocide which occurred during their reins of terror - and they had good communications systems in place.

The French and British were more civil, yet don't say that to Kenya, India, Ireland, Vietnam, etc.

Second-hand experience of "civility" that happened in Ireland - my paternal grandfather was a 19 year old in the Irish Republican Army during the Easter Rising of 1916, fighting for independence.  He was captured by English soldiers, who offered him an ultimatum - join our Army, or we'll shoot you!  (as they had done to his colleague).  Pop, being a pragmatic sort of chap, decided to join the British Army - and saw independence finally come to Ireland a few years later.  He stayed in the service for over 30 years (much of that in peacetime India), right through the Second World War and beyond, before bringing his wife and son (my father) to New Zealand in 1951.

[fathertime]

Hey Fathertime,

                       Have you worked out the difference between a country and a Kingdom yet ?

Maybe you'd better learn that before you start pontificating about the affairs of other countries.

I see someone else has noticed what a coward you are..it's not difficult though,your posts reek of it.

Go ahead robin hood, go on over there and fight....mr 'brave guy'...show that 'woman cyber friend' what a brave person from your disintegrating kingdom do....instead of trying to use other people's children to bolster yourself......you have no excuse you aren't in a wheelchair...chickenhawk!


If not permitting chickenhawks like yourself from sending our young people into a conflict that isn't ours makes me a coward, then I'm the biggest coward ever!   It is very brave of you to try to make others fight a fight that you want so badly.  Your words and actions don't match...that is why you are still alone and your colony-less 'kingdom' is close to breaking up...


Fathertime!