TATARSTAN :MAY BE, SOMEBODY WILL NEED THIS INFO

[Ludmila]

TATARSTAN :MAY BE, SOMEBODY WILL NEED THIS INFO ( I COPIED  MY EMAIL TO ONE OF MY AMERICAN FRIENDS. IT WAS WRITTEN SOME MOTHNS AGO). Hi B,
 
The people are called tatars. Tartar is an obsolete word. What do you mean by "what I think of them"?
If you mean ethnogenez, they are the blend of Turks and Mongols. The descendants of  Genghis Khan.  Russia was under Tatar yoke for 300 years, as you, I hope, are aware.  Obviously, holding the proliferation of Mongols to the West, and doing so, allowing  the West to develop. It was an upheaval in the Russian history. Tatars used the feud among the Russian princes  for their ruling.
Russia rose from knees eventually ( when we were in Moscow, my husband M bought a painting of Victory of Peresvet-- the Christian monk who finally fearlessly faced death in his clashing with the mongol leader prior to the crucial battle defining the defeat of the mongols and the  end of their rule).

Yes, in Russia the price to retain the Christian faith was very high. Mongols couldn't destroy it, communists failed and Obama won't( as much as he wants to make Russia "progressive" :-) by imposing liberal values ( I think I told you that the first statement the US ambassador during Hilary's term of office as FS was NOT  GLOBAL CHALLENGES  SUCH AS GLOBAL TERRORISM, ETC, BUT....THE RIGHTS OF GAYS AND LESBIANS)-- and eventually, same sex marriage.
 
 There're about 6 mln of them (tatars) in Russia, B. Mainly, in the Republic of Tatarstan. Russia is a federation, as is known. It means, in T they speak their language, follow their cultural traditions ( turk), religious traditions ( Islam-- sunni). They enjoy wide freedom/sovereignty in  everything inside their republic. On the federal level the Russian law applies. (Like in Quebec).
Some ladies are very beautiful, but will worship islam. There is a  certain group of t.  in Moscow ( strong network). Many of them are in the mayor's office on decision making positions. I would never be able to marry a tatar. Friends-- may be. Even though civilized, the mentality is far from  mine. 
 
 
What do you think of neocons and their doctrine?
 
All the best to you, my friend,
Ludmila.

[CDW]

I know a Tatar !!!

[Anotherkiwi]

I was quite surprised by some of the attitudes I found when I visited Tatarstan.  Coming from a country where dozens of different cultures and religions co-exist pretty harmoniously (most of the time, anyway), I was quite surprised when the woman I was visiting was rather vehement in stating that she would never have Tatar friends, would never learn any of the language (even though it's equally as official as Russian) and so on.  Although my inter-action with other locals was fairly limited, as would be expected from someone who spoke only a little Russian, this attitude seemed to be quite widespread, and was confirmed by those people I met who DID speak English.

It seemed such a shame that people from two such significant cultures did not seem prepared to learn anything about, or from, each other, especially given their past history.

[Ludmila]

Kiwi, I have a surprise for you,  Canadian anglophones are VERY FAR from being enthusiastic  to learn and admire the French culture, and francophones-- the English culture, both  ethnicities being Christian. Although peacefully co-existing, neither of these ethnicities EVER enjoyed, let alone admired each other's culture.
But knowing how hypocrytical  some members are here, especially Boe, they will come soon and will elaborate on how they like everything French. Boe will tell you that it is not typical.

[Boethius]

Kiwi, I have a surprise for you,  Canadian anglophones are VERY FAR from being enthusiastic  to learn and admire the French culture, and francophones-- the English culture, both  ethnicities being Christian. Although peacefully co-existing, neither of these ethnicities EVER enjoyed, let alone admired each other's culture.
But knowing how hypocrytical  some members are here, especially Boe, they will come soon and will elaborate on how they like everything French. Boe will tell you that it is not typical.

First, you don't know me, or anything about my life beyond what I post, so, even with your sovok superiority complex, you cannot know whether or not I am a hypocrite.  I would state no, I usually do what I say I will do.

Furthermore, it is not typical.  Perhaps in the, as you cited "redneck", circles you evidently travel in, this is the norm.  I travel in different circles.

I did a semester at Universite Laval, where anglophone Canadians went to learn French culture, and their French counterparts practiced their language skills on the English.  I was in Quebec this summer, and most everyone, even those begging on the streets, were fluently bilingual.  I ran into only one street person who spoke no English.  Moreover, if you have ever been to Banff in the summer, you know you will hear as much French on the streets as English and no cares.   It really is a non issue for most Canadians.


Just for you.

[Ludmila]

Boe, I think you're overpaid by your employer (it's just a tip for your employer, if he reads). for your lack of logics and manipulative manner of sending your message accross. Or, may be, you're paid, just exactly for that?)Noone in Tatarstan will OPENLY say anything against each other. We're talking about cultural perception and cultural interpenetration. I haven't heard of many French showmen performing, or, let alone, being popular among mainstream Americans.
I travel to Quebec every second year  AND TALK to francophones in the parks and cafes. No person in his sober mind would say direct insults and speak negatively ( unless you're in a forum like this). The "LOVE" of these two ethnicities to each other is in intonation, choice of words, gestures and many other things. Then there is political correctness, too. You dare not praise anything French here in the States : they will give you a cold shoulder.
About Anglo-French mutual admiration.
Just for you. 
 

[Boethius]

I am self employed, so if I want to waste my whole day here, I can do so.   You are not exactly an arbiter of what is logical.


Does your employer know you don't know the difference between "waist" and "waste"?


I am not American.  Anglophone Canadians are aware of, and admire, francophone artists.  In my province, we have French language schools, we have French immersion schools, we have a French language university, francophone bookstores and financial institutions (with no English signage), and the ability to access services in French in any federal office.   

My daughter lives in Montreal currently.  She is anglophone (with a decidedly Russian surname, as my better half says, so Russian it is "Kremlin approved, like Red Square, Tsar Pushka, etc." - some posters here can attest to this), speaks French fluently, finds Montreal very civilized and not anti anglophone at all. 

I never referred to Tatars.  Your parallel is flawed, as evidently, you don't understand Canadian culture. 

[Ludmila]

And here's what your redneck buddies think of the French. Unless you land downtown Manhatten.
Just for you.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/humor/salutetofrance.html

[Boethius]

Is that another example of your "superior logical mind"?

I am not American, so your American cultural references are irrelevant to my country, and our approaches.

[AC]

And here's what your redneck buddies think of the French. Unless you land downtown Manhatten.
Just for you.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/humor/salutetofrance.html

You are so dense that you don't know what a redneck is and what isn't; you just like saying it because it makes you feel better about yourself.  Just like you claimed I had an "inflamed redneck mind" because I know that gays actually are beaten in Russia (you're clueless that most rednecks are also homophobes like yourself).

That said while I don't know the current attitude of Canadian's toward the French, it is true that Americans in general love to make fun of the French.
I especially liked this particular barb by comedian Dennis Miller:

"What do you expect from a culture and a nation that exerted more of its national will fighting against Disney World and Big Macs than against the Nazis?"
      — Dennis Miller

[I/O]

"What do you expect from a culture and a nation that exerted more of its national will fighting against Disney World and Big Macs than against the Nazis?"
      — Dennis Miller

When if comes to fighting, we've long thought they couldn't punch a hole in a hymen - their most famous force is the foreign legion which is hello.........made up of foreigners.

[Ludmila]

I am self employed, so if I want to waste my whole day here, I can do so.   You are not exactly an arbiter of what is logical.
NEITHER ARE YOU. EVERY OPINION IS ONLY AN OPINION. SO IS ANY OPINION EXPRESSED BY ANY MEMBER OF THIS OR ANY OTHER FORUM.  I CAN CARE LESS FOR YOUR PERSONALITY. THAT SAID, YOUR TOTALITARIAN MANNER OF TALKING WITH THE FORUM ( I'VE BEEN READING THIS FORUM FOR YEARS) IS DISGUSTING, AND QUITE A FEW MEMBERS HAVE TOLD YOU THIS.
Does your employer know you don't know the difference between "waist" and "waste"?
I CANNOT JUDGE YOUR WAISTLINE BECAUSE I CANNOT SEE IT, BUT THAT OVER THE YEARS YOUR INTELLECT IS WASTING IS PRETTY NOTICEABLE. MAY BE, NOT TO YOU.
YOU ASKED ME WHETHER I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, I HOPE I ANSWERED.
 


I am not American.  Anglophone Canadians are aware of, and admire, francophone artists.
SOME DO, MANY DON'T ( I DO)
In my province, we have French language schools, we have French immersion schools, we have a French language university, francophone bookstores and financial institutions (with no English signage), and the ability to access services in French in any federal office.   
AS AN ACCOMPLISHED CLASSICAL PIANIST ( A HOBBY OF MINE), I CAN TELL YOU  IF THE  PARENTS BOUGHT  A PIANO DOESN'T MEAN THE CHILD WILL PLAY .ESPECIALLY EAGERLY. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF ANGLOPHONES IN CANADA USE FRENCH ONLY AS A NECESSITY. I TRAVEL TO CANADA VERY OFTEN, AND SEE EVERYTHING WITH MY OWN EYES. THERE IS NO INTERPENETRATION OF THOSE TWO ETHNICITIES. YOU CAN TEACH PEOPLE RESPECT EACH OTHER'S CULTURE, BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE THEM INTERPENETRATE AND LOVE EACH OTHER. THIS IS THE CASE IN TATARSTAN.
YOU DIDN'T CATCH THE POINT, AS ALWAYS.

My daughter lives in Montreal currently.  She is anglophone (with a decidedly Russian surname, as my better half says, so Russian it is "Kremlin approved, like Red Square, Tsar Pushka, etc." - some posters here can attest to this), speaks French fluently, finds Montreal very civilized and not anti anglophone at all. 
YOUR DAUGHTER IS THE DAUGHTER OF UKRAINIAN JEWISH IMMIGRANTS, AND HAS A SPECIAL BACKGROUND.

I never referred to Tatars.  Your parallel is flawed, as evidently, you don't understand Canadian culture.
AGAIN, YOUR OPINION IN GENERAL, AND ON THE SUBJECT IN QUESTION, IN PARTICULAR, IS ONLY ONE OPINION. AND I HEARD IT.

[Boethius]

INEITHER ARE YOU. EVERY OPINION IS ONLY AN OPINION. SO IS ANY OPINION EXPRESSED BY ANY MEMBER OF THIS OR ANY OTHER FORUM.  I CAN CARE LESS FOR YOUR PERSONALITY. THAT SAID, YOUR TOTALITARIAN MANNER OF TALKING WITH THE FORUM ( I'VE BEEN READING THIS FORUM FOR YEARS) IS DISGUSTING, AND QUITE A FEW MEMBERS HAVE TOLD YOU THIS.

And even more have told you that you are crazy. 

Should we take a poll?

Does your employer know you don't know the difference between "waist" and "waste"?
I CANNOT JUDGE YOUR WAISTLINE BECAUSE I CANNOT SEE IT, BUT THAT OVER THE YEARS YOUR INTELLECT IS WASTING IS PRETTY NOTICEABLE. MAY BE, NOT TO YOU.
YOU ASKED ME WHETHER I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, I HOPE I ANSWERED.

I didn't ask you if you knew the difference.  I asked if your employer knows that you don't.  For, despite the profound intellect you keep telling us you possess, you have consistently used the incorrect verb.

I am not here to display my intellect.  For me, this is entertainment when my husband is at work.
 

I am not American.  Anglophone Canadians are aware of, and admire, francophone artists.
SOME DO, MANY DON'T ( I DO)

You are not an anglophone Canadian.
 

AS AN ACCOMPLISHED CLASSICAL PIANIST ( A HOBBY OF MINE), I CAN TELL YOU  IF THE  PARENTS BOUGHT  A PIANO DOESN'T MEAN THE CHILD WILL PLAY .ESPECIALLY EAGERLY. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF ANGLOPHONES IN CANADA USE FRENCH ONLY AS A NECESSITY. I TRAVEL TO CANADA VERY OFTEN, AND SEE EVERYTHING WITH MY OWN EYES. THERE IS NO INTERPENETRATION OF THOSE TWO ETHNICITIES. YOU CAN TEACH PEOPLE RESPECT EACH OTHER'S CULTURE, BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE THEM INTERPENETRATE AND LOVE EACH OTHER. THIS IS THE CASE IN TATARSTAN.
YOU DIDN'T CATCH THE POINT, AS ALWAYS.

Oh, I caught your point.  I just disagree with it.

Anglophones in regions where French is commonly used do, in fact, speak French.  The further West one travels, the less common it is to encounter English/French bilingual speakers.  However,  over 1 in 4 Canadian anglophones is completely bilingual.  That is not an insignificant number.

YOUR DAUGHTER IS THE DAUGHTER OF UKRAINIAN JEWISH IMMIGRANTS, AND HAS A SPECIAL BACKGROUND.

ROFL.  I knew you would accuse me of being Jewish, as you have an obscure mentality.

I am not Jewish.  If you knew anything about how Ukrainians came to this country and settled it, you would know that virtually none of them were Jewish.  I am not a from the USSR.  I was born in Canada, as were my parents, three of my grandparents, and six of my great grandparents.   

My husband is not Jewish either.  His ancestor (the one whose surname his family carried) was granted a large estate by Catherine the Great.  He can trace his family back to the 16th century, on both sides, and has not a drop of Jewish blood.  He was denied the right to emigrate when we married.  So, no, you are wrong, my daughter is not the daughter of Ukrainian Jewish immigrants.  However, were she, I would not be ashamed of that fact.  But, I know exactly why you made the "accusation", I was expecting it, as it is typical sovok mentality, and you are not very difficult to understand.  Evidently, one can move the sovok wench from Moscow, but cannot remove the ingrained sovok attitudes from the wench.

I never referred to Tatars.  Your parallel is flawed, as evidently, you don't understand Canadian culture.
AGAIN, YOUR OPINION IN GENERAL, AND ON THE SUBJECT IN QUESTION, IN PARTICULAR, IS ONLY ONE OPINION. AND I HEARD IT.

No, it is not an opinion.  It is fairly evident that in your biannual trips, you have failed to understand the essence of Canadian culture.  Stick to something simpler.

[mendeleyev]

Then of course there is the expression of scratch a Russian--and underneath you will uncover a Tatar.

[lordtiberius]

I had a brief correspondence with a Russian woman from Tatarstan.  She seemed nice.

There is friction between the races of any multicultural polity.  I consider Russia multicultural.  I did not observe friction between the Canadians and French Canadians in the Canadian contingent on the Sinai.  They had more problems with the American contingent and that was due to some institutional, cultural and our officers were just weirder than their officers.  I am not shading the truth because of my naked scorn for Sloboan Vladimirovich and his minions.  I say this because it is the truth, which maybe alien to some of our Eastern subscribers.