Minimum Wage debate - USA

[Muzh]

You're right FT.  14% is way to high.  If Jesus Christ only asked 10%. Uncle Sam should be able to conduct his affairs with half that

Hey dipstick, JC advocated for 100% tax rate if you wanted to attain the kingdom of god. He was a socialist.

[fathertime]

 


Rather than talk about it at a discussion forum on Russian women (especially when you have no Russian woman),  you should spend your time campaigning for Elizabeth Warren.  If she wins, your socialism dreams may come true.  If she loses, you can remain miserable by continuing to whine.

YOU seem a little grumpy and whiny.  I merely responded to the discussion, and now you feel you have to whine about it?  A raise in taxes does NOT equal socialism, that is a stale line the rich like to 'whine' about to prevent it from happening!   A hallmark of a 3rd world society is a huge disparity in wealth with almost everybody on the bottom, and I would like to see that avoided.  We need a strong middle class, and reasonable taxes on the very wealthy are a part of that equation.  14% for a guy making 10's of millions is not reasonable....especially when even middle class earners are paying a higher percentage...but I'm ok with you arguing that it is...if you want to.   






Fathertime!

[Muzh]

YOU seem a little grumpy and whiny.  I merely responded to the discussion, and now you feel you have to whine about it?  A raise in taxes does NOT equal socialism, that is a stale line the rich like to 'whine' about to prevent it from happening!   A hallmark of a 3rd world society is a huge disparity in wealth with almost everybody on the bottom, and I would like to see that avoided.  We need a strong middle class, and reasonable taxes on the very wealthy are a part of that equation.  14% for a guy making 10's of millions is not reasonable....especially when even middle class earners are paying a higher percentage...but I'm ok with you arguing that it is...if you want to.   






Fathertime!

I have to give it to the fathead, his heart is in the right place. Now, if he would stop being a shill for the Russians this message would not be lost in the din.

[fathertime]

I have to give it to the fathead, his heart is in the right place. Now, if he would stop being a shill for the Russians this message would not be lost in the din.

 


Fathead!

[lordtiberius]

Hey dipstick, JC advocated for 100% tax rate if you wanted to attain the kingdom of god. He was a socialist.

Spoken from an atheist

[Gator]

YOU seem a little grumpy and whiny.  I merely responded to the discussion, and now you feel you have to whine about it?  A raise in taxes does NOT equal socialism, that is a stale line the rich like to 'whine' about to prevent it from happening!   A hallmark of a 3rd world society is a huge disparity in wealth with almost everybody on the bottom, and I would like to see that avoided.  We need a strong middle class, and reasonable taxes on the very wealthy are a part of that equation.  14% for a guy making 10's of millions is not reasonable....especially when even middle class earners are paying a higher percentage...but I'm ok with you arguing that it is...if you want to.   

Grumpy and whiny?  Yes, I always get grumpy when seeing your name listed in "Recent Posts," and for good reason.  However, you  Chicken Little are the whiner.

Why grumpy?  Your remarks about Romney are an example of how you will spend 10 seconds in reading something, don't dig deeper, and leap to a conclusion.  Then you write a post espousing something inane, yet absurdly thinking you are smart.   It is tedious, and tedious makes me grumpy. 

Today you use Romney as a surrogate what what's wrong with America.  Did you study why he paid only 14%?

Because you can only read for 10 seconds, I give you two facts. 

1.  Half of his income was capital gains, taxed by Uncle Sam at a flat rate of 15% (to encourage investment).

2.  He and his wife contributed 30% of their income to charity, and contributions are deductible. 

So you criticize a man who invests in America and donates 30% of his income to the needy.  One could say that he pays 44% in taxes (14% to the US government who does not do a good job in spending tax revenue + 30% to organizations who use the contributions more effectively than the US government would do based on what I have seen in US welfare spending). 

So tell me what is bad about what Romney did with his money? 

[Gator]

BTW, I agree with Chicken Little that we need a stronger middle class. 

This country lost big when it selected Obama over Romney.  Then again,  I sort of like Obama for what he has done to diminish the Democratic Party.  Jeb actually has a chance in 2016.   

[fathertime]

Grumpy and whiny?  Yes, I always get grumpy when seeing your name listed in "Recent Posts," and for good reason.  However, you  Chicken Little are the whiner.

Why grumpy?  Your remarks about Romney are an example of how you will spend 10 seconds in reading something, don't dig deeper, and leap to a conclusion.  Then you write a post espousing something inane, yet absurdly thinking you are smart.   It is tedious, and tedious makes me grumpy. 

Today you use Romney as a surrogate what what's wrong with America.  Did you study why he paid only 14%?

Because you can only read for 10 seconds, I give you two facts. 

1.  Half of his income was capital gains, taxed by Uncle Sam at a flat rate of 15% (to encourage investment).

2.  He and his wife contributed 30% of their income to charity, and contributions are deductible. 

So you criticize a man who invests in America and donates 30% of his income to the needy.  One could say that he pays 44% in taxes (14% to the US government who does not do a good job in spending tax revenue + 30% to organizations who use the contributions more effectively than the US government would do based on what I have seen in US welfare spending). 

So tell me what is bad about what Romney did with his money?

I'm glad I hit a nerve with you and have made you grumpy and have once again resorted to name-calling as a substitute for normal dialogue.   


You have stated a lot of OBVIOUS facts.  Romney has been thinking about, was, and has been running for president for probably 15-20 years.  Yes he has been donating his money, and I say good for him...but I don't believe for a moment that he represents the typical mega-millionaire or multi-millionaires in general. Some choose to donate and MANY others do not, either way it is their decision.   I think Romney in many respects is an outstanding man, so the characterization you made on my behalf was your crusty old imagination. 


The capital gains tax is low currently, but I feel it could/should be raised.  It is an investment disproportionately by mega-millionaires and is almost always passive income.  The lower classes do not have money to invest and do not receive the same direct benefit, so it is in effect a big tax break for the people that need it least. Money to construct a society has to come from somewhere, so I see good reason to make sure that those that have benefited the most are paying more than a mere 14% of their earnings.  I paid more than that, and I am not Mitt Romney.  I await (as you would say) your tedious response.   


Fathertime!   

[LiveFromUkraine]

Grumpy and whiny?  Yes, I always get grumpy when seeing your name listed in "Recent Posts," and for good reason.  However, you  Chicken Little are the whiner.

Why grumpy?  Your remarks about Romney are an example of how you will spend 10 seconds in reading something, don't dig deeper, and leap to a conclusion.  Then you write a post espousing something inane, yet absurdly thinking you are smart.   It is tedious, and tedious makes me grumpy. 

Today you use Romney as a surrogate what what's wrong with America.  Did you study why he paid only 14%?

Because you can only read for 10 seconds, I give you two facts. 

1.  Half of his income was capital gains, taxed by Uncle Sam at a flat rate of 15% (to encourage investment).

2.  He and his wife contributed 30% of their income to charity, and contributions are deductible. 

So you criticize a man who invests in America and donates 30% of his income to the needy.  One could say that he pays 44% in taxes (14% to the US government who does not do a good job in spending tax revenue + 30% to organizations who use the contributions more effectively than the US government would do based on what I have seen in US welfare spending). 

So tell me what is bad about what Romney did with his money?

Gator getting upset again?  Say it isn't so! 


Gator, you forgot how Romney amassed a lot of money without paying normal income taxes.   Things like carried interest tax breaks are typically what most people are against and for good reason.  As far as I know, that "tax break" is still around. 


What he does or doesn't do with his money has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Muzh]

Grumpy and whiny?  Yes, I always get grumpy when seeing your name listed in "Recent Posts," and for good reason.  However, you  Chicken Little are the whiner.

Why grumpy?  Your remarks about Romney are an example of how you will spend 10 seconds in reading something, don't dig deeper, and leap to a conclusion.  Then you write a post espousing something inane, yet absurdly thinking you are smart.   It is tedious, and tedious makes me grumpy. 

Today you use Romney as a surrogate what what's wrong with America.  Did you study why he paid only 14%?

Because you can only read for 10 seconds, I give you two facts. 

1.  Half of his income was capital gains, taxed by Uncle Sam at a flat rate of 15% (to encourage investment).

2.  He and his wife contributed 30% of their income to charity, and contributions are deductible. 

So you criticize a man who invests in America and donates 30% of his income to the needy.  One could say that he pays 44% in taxes (14% to the US government who does not do a good job in spending tax revenue + 30% to organizations who use the contributions more effectively than the US government would do based on what I have seen in US welfare spending). 

So tell me what is bad about what Romney did with his money?

http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-romneys-charitable-donations-mormon-church-2012-7


So he donated 80% to the Mormon Church and then some through the Tyler Foundation.


(Okay, so what is good for Obama is good for Romney)


So what does that say? He was just trying to be a Mormon in good standing so he could use it for his presidential aspirations.


Oooo, what a charitable guy. Ooo, what a giver. Oooo, what a man!! If only I could grow up and be a millionaire like him!


Yep, he gave.


Now, what would JC Superstar would think about that?

[Muzh]

What he does or doesn't do with his money has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Not so fast. Topic is Minimum wage in the USA and we are talking about the gazillionaires who are complaining that 47% of the population are a bunch of moochers and raising the minimum wage would cut into their profits. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Not so fast. Topic is Minimum wage in the USA and we are talking about the gazillionaires who are complaining that 47% of the population are a bunch of moochers and raising the minimum wage would cut into their profits. 

 Let the gazillionaires make more so they can give more but don't raise min wage so the people can make more without having to wait for scraps.  Makes sense.

[Muzh]

 Let the gazillionaires make more so they can give more but don't raise min wage so the people can make more without having to wait for scraps.  Makes sense.

Excellent. And while we are at it, why don't we get rid of the unions? After all, there are laws that prevent usury (credit cards) legalized racketeering (insurance) and slave labor (50 wk work year). This way people can work harder (3-50 wk work year jobs) and build a strong middle class without the need of handouts.


Heh, there goes millions of white people malnourished. Just like the gilded age where the industry lions could and would flood entire towns because the dam was not the right size of their horse-buggy.


And while you are at it, get rid of mandated health insurance. Just don't get sick as some pundits argued.


I promise you, this will be the time when the Second Amendment will come in very handy to many Americans.

[Gator]

 
Why single Romney out?    Surely there were more appropriate examples of what's wrong with America, such as Bernie Madoff, pro athletes, etc.   

[Gator]

I expressed my position earlier:  increase the minimum wage but also increase military pay, as military pay for many is below minimum wage. 

That can't happen because military pay comes from Federal tax revenue, and that is needed for more "change and hope" programs.  Minimum wage is paid by businesses and they can afford anything including more taxes, higher health insurance premiums (to provide coverage not for their workers but for people who chose an unhealthy lifestyle), etc.

[fathertime]

Why single Romney out?    Surely there were more appropriate examples of what's wrong with America, such as Bernie Madoff, pro athletes, etc.

YOU and your angry grumpiness are unsuccessfully trying to make Romney (and socialism) the issue.   I merely mentioned Romney as an example of how a person can make mega millions and pay relatively little in taxes.  I didn't demonize him as an individual, like you implied.    He was an example that everybody has heard about, and he has disclosed his tax rate, which few others have done.    If you want to sound off against Madoff and pro athletes then go ahead, but my response was to AC's Bill Gates link, and that didn't have to do with the criminal actions of Madoff or  (what I feel) are the inflated salaries of pro athletes.  So go ahead and defend all the mega-millionaires who pay 14% in tax,(or less) if you think that is a worthy cause!   


Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I expressed my position earlier:  increase the minimum wage but also increase military pay, as military pay for many is below minimum wage. 

That can't happen because military pay comes from Federal tax revenue, and that is needed for more "change and hope" programs.  Minimum wage is paid by businesses and they can afford anything including more taxes, higher health insurance premiums (to provide coverage not for their workers but for people who chose an unhealthy lifestyle), etc.

Businesses don't pay anything, they pass on expenses to customers.  Some may be able to pass on more with higher prices and others will have to take in less profit.


I don't have a problem paying more for products if that means people are able to support themselves and their families.   That is what most people want, isn't it?  I think many miss the human factor when discussing these topics.  It isn't always about numbers but about people who just want a decent life.

[LiveFromUkraine]

So go ahead and defend all the mega-millionaires who pay 14% in tax,(or less) if you think that is a worthy cause!   


Fathertime!

Hey FT, if you're talking about capital gains tax rates then I don't see a problem with it.  You also have to factor in corporate taxes into the equation.   


Now if you're talking about tax breaks like carried interest, I'm with ya.

[Gator]

Businesses don't pay anything, they pass on expenses to customers. 

Why don't you start a business and charge huge prices so you can become a gazillionaire, and then contribute your money to charity because your taxes are too low.   

I don't have a problem paying more for products if that means people are able to support themselves and their families.   That is what most people want, isn't it?  I think many miss the human factor when discussing these topics.  It isn't always about numbers but about people who just want a decent life.

You have expressed your opinion.  I respect it but personally don't subscribe to it exactly as you phrased it.  Why do I imagine you sitting in front of your computer screen,  wearing a T-shirt saying Hands Up - Don't Shoot? 

[fathertime]

Hey FT, if you're talking about capital gains tax rates then I don't see a problem with it.  You also have to factor in corporate taxes into the equation.   


Now if you're talking about tax breaks like carried interest, I'm with ya.

First I'm happy you are back to posting!

I agree with you on carried interest, but I am also think capital gains tax at 15% is too low at this point in time.  In a more perfect world it could be doable....The 15% rate (in the USA) is the lowest in recent decades at a time when we are 18 trillion in the hole and growing daily. The lower classes are getting pinched, so why not pinch the upper classes just a little more, not too be mean or vengeful, but to be fair and keep the society in balance, which benefits all, including the wealthy. 
 Shoot most of the non wealthy are earning <1% on their little savings accts at this point, and I feel that is result of the national debt the country is currently carrying. 


Fathertime!   

[AC]

First I'm happy you are back to posting!

I agree with you on carried interest, but I am also think capital gains tax at 15% is too low at this point in time.  In a more perfect world it could be doable....The 15% rate (in the USA) is the lowest in recent decades at a time when we are 18 trillion in the hole and growing daily. The lower classes are getting pinched, so why not pinch the upper classes just a little more, not too be mean or vengeful, but to be fair and keep the society in balance, which benefits all, including the wealthy. 
 Shoot most of the non wealthy are earning <1% on their little savings accts at this point, and I feel that is result of the national debt the country is currently carrying. 


Fathertime!

We are in the hole because 47% of the population does not work.  Raising the minimum wage will not result in them getting a job either.

[Gator]

I agree with you on carried interest...

Why do you agree because I am certain you have no clue what it is?  It is an esoteric tax topic, applicable to a very few, and even fewer as hedge funds continue to implode. 

If eliminated I doubt it would affect total tax revenue significantly.

[fathertime]

Why do you agree because I am certain you have no clue what it is?  It is an esoteric tax topic, applicable to a very few, and even fewer as hedge funds continue to implode. 

If eliminated I doubt it would affect total tax revenue significantly.

You are 'certain'?  Haha...you seem to be grasping, which is OK with me.  I've been paid to do taxes, and need to be aware of lots of things YOU would find 'esoteric'.  Try again Mr ' I Know Everything'...

[Shadow]

I can only laugh when I read how people oppose raising the tax rate.
Capital gains tax in the Netherlands is 30%, and a standard minimal capital growth of 4% is assumed, if your growth is lower you will have to prove it by full assesments of all you assets througout the year.

[fathertime]

We are in the hole because 47% of the population does not work.  Raising the minimum wage will not result in them getting a job either.

Well AC I don't know where you get the 47% of the population is not working, unless you are including senior citizens and young children. 






Fathertime!