California Insurance Laws - It might affect your brides ability to drive.

[calmissile]

Time for a rant!!!!

After passing her written driving test, my wife was granted a temporary California drivers license.  It allows her to drive legally unrestricted for about 2 months in which she must schedule and pass a driving test.  This is not a learners permit which has restrictions.  The DMV will issue as temporary license if the foreigner has a valid license and can prove it.  Otherwise a learners permit is issued.

The next step would logically be to allow her to drive one of my cars for a month and take the driving test.  In order to accomplish this it is necessary for me to get insurance for her which is also required by California law (at least liability insurance).  Now the craziness begins....

California does not provide liability insurance to drivers (without cars).  All auto insurance is tied to a vehicle.  My first attempt was to approach AAA since I have been with them for 18 years.  I had already inquired earlier and was told that they would not insure someone with a foreign license.  OK, we circumvented that requirement by actually getting a valid license.  Now AAA tells me that they will still not allow her to be insured under my policies unless the Ukraine government will send a translated report of her driving record in Ukraine.  That is not likely to happen within the 2 month period of her temporary license.  Furthermore, without proof from Ukraine of her driving record AAA informed me that she would need to drive a year and one half here before they will add her to my policy.  I suppose these idiots are suggesting that she should become an uninsured driver for that time like most of our illegal aliens.

We then went to a couple cheapo insurance places that cater to the Mexican population figuring that surely they would insure her.  Guess again.  Here is what we were told by those agencies.
1.  Drivers license is no longer a problem, however  they cannot issue an additional policy on a vehicle that is already insured.  According to the agent(s) this would be fraud under California law.  This project is going nowhere!!
2.  Next proposal to the agents was to buy her a car in her name and only have insurance under her name.  Nope!  Can't do that either because it is registered at the same address and the insurance company makes the assumption that she would have access to all the vehicles at that address.
3.  As a last resort I went online and searched for the rules about becoming insured by the 'assigned risk' pool that California has for drunk drivers and others that cannot get insurance in the private market.  Guess what?  In order to qualify you have to prove that your income is below some multiple of the poverty level.  This has become rediculous!!!
4.  There is one last idea that I will investigate.  Perhaps she can lease or rent a car as others do when visiting and buy the insurance that is part of the lease.  This is becoming a real pain in the ass!

Also of note, current insurance questionnaires require you to disclose all household members whether they are drivers or insured or not.  Failure to disclose information on these forms is a way for insurance companies to refuse claims, so that isn't such a good idea either.

Lastly, how the hell is California expecting for all these illegal aliens to get auto insurance.  The flood of new licenses for illegals began on Jan 1.

End of Rant!

[krimster2]

are the circumstances of this law new?  my wife got her Califonia driver's license in 2007, a few months before she became a citizen, I bought her a new car first, and registered it in her name, she didn't have to show citizenship, license, or insurance when the car was registered, everything was fine...

[lonedrake]

She has a legal driving license and the car is insured.

Just let her drive. She can't get a ticket for either.

[ML]

Doug, I am pretty  sure that your insurance will cover ANYONE who drives one of your vehicles with your permission.

Call another AAA outlet and start asking general questions about this without disclosing that you are calling with respect to a wife who lives with you.

Just say things like:  A  cousin will be visiting for awhile and I am going to let him drive my car,  etc., etc.

[calmissile]

are the circumstances of this law new?  my wife got her Califonia driver's license in 2007, a few months before she became a citizen, I bought her a new car first, and registered it in her name, she didn't have to show citizenship, license, or insurance when the car was registered, everything was fine...

First of all, she had a car in her own name.  I wanted my wife to drive one of my cars.  That is one of the differences.
You do not need to show insurance when you buy a car or get a drivers license.  That is not the issue.
The problem is that the insurance companies will not insure her to use MY cars which are already insured (but not for drivers not on my policy).
Additionally, another insurance company cannot insure the same vehicle that is already insured (to add another driver).
Sorry for the confusion.

[calmissile]

Doug, I am pretty  sure that your insurance will cover ANYONE who drives one of your vehicles with your permission.

Call another AAA outlet and start asking general questions about this without disclosing that you are calling with respect to a wife who lives with you.

Just say things like:  A  cousin will be visiting for awhile and I am going to let him drive my car,  etc., etc.

ML, you are partially correct.  Anyone can drive my vehicles and be covered, except....... the exclusion that excludes an immediate family member or words to that affect.  This came up on a previous renewal when I wanted to add my live-in girlfriend.  I will have to dig out the policy to read the exact language but it was explained then, and confirmed now that someone living with you must be on the policy to be covered driving my vehicles.   Otherwise it is a breach of the contract.

A visitor cannot be a family member and be covered on my policies.  I am going to dig out the language but it is the second time I have been reminded of this exclusion.

[ML]

Doug, here is a very comprehensive write-up by a lawyer.

http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2014/06/05/249762.htm

[AC]

AAA is not the only insurance company.  Simply change companies since they are giving you so much grief.  Get a policy with a nationwide company like Allstate or Farmers.

Good luck!

[ML]

Doug, go here and look at page 5 of the Allstate Policy.

http://www.allstate.com/resources/Allstate/attachments/tools-and-resources/know-your-policy/Policy-Illustrator-Auto.pdf

Anyone residing in your home who has a license is covered under an Allstate Policy.

[lordtiberius]

Sucks to be you dude.  Move.  I did.

[calmissile]

Thanks for the info guys.  My hesitation to dropping AAA is due to the accumulated discounts for being a member for so many years.  If I don't get it resolved with them I will bite the bullet and change companies.

[lordtiberius]

No worries dude

[AC]

Thanks for the info guys.  My hesitation to dropping AAA is due to the accumulated discounts for being a member for so many years.  If I don't get it resolved with them I will bite the bullet and change companies.

Don't drag your feet.  They are just playing on your emotions with that sales pitch.  Trust me, other companies such as Allstate which ML listed above will also give you discounts for having insurance so many years without an accident.  More importantly is that you do business with a company that covers your wife when she drives.

[lordtiberius]

Or you could switch to USAA.

[Ade]

Or you could switch to USAA.

Or move to a proper country.

[lordtiberius]

Or move to a proper country.

Norway?  Its a Muslim country, right?

[Shadow]

Norway?  Its a Muslim country, right?

You are doing it wrong. It's a socialist country.

[dogspot]

What I don't get is this.

2.  Next proposal to the agents was to buy her a car in her name and only have insurance under her name.  Nope!  Can't do that either because it is registered at the same address and the insurance company makes the assumption that she would have access to all the vehicles at that address.

When my wife arrived in 2011 and received her learner's permit, we went out and bought a car, registered it in my name, and insured both of us on the new vehicle through the same insurance company that insured my existing vehicle.

As others have suggested, switch insurance providers. AAA will be happy to have you back later. 

[ML]

There is a 'fly in the ointment' possibility here that may prevent Doug from benefiting from all our advice.

First, each insurance company can establish its own rules.

And second, a given insurance company can have different rules in different states.  Some of these rules may be self imposed and some may be mandated by State Insurance Commissioners.

We wish the best to you Doug in this possible 'Catch 22' situation.

[calmissile]

There is a 'fly in the ointment' possibility here that may prevent Doug from benefiting from all our advice.

First, each insurance company can establish its own rules.

And second, a given insurance company can have different rules in different states.  Some of these rules may be self imposed and some may be mandated by State Insurance Commissioners.

We wish the best to you Doug in this possible 'Catch 22' situation.

Thanks for the post ML, also for the post from the lawyer.  Anyone that read it will better understand the confusion and idiocy of the insurance laws and practices.

I got on line quotes from a couple companies and discovered that Geico charged double what I am paying for less coverage.  Progressive was about the same rate I am now paying but for considerably less coverage.  Neither company offers $1M liability coverage.

I read the actual AAA policy I have and it specifically covers wives and relatives that live in the same household, yet I cannot find any exclusions that the agents are adamant about.  Not being a lawyer, I am hesitant to rely on my interpretation of all the legalese and small print.

Before giving up on AAA, I am going to call the main office today and try to have her added without saying anything about the advice/comments from the field offices.   I also have the policy in hand so I can ask them for references in the policy to support any negative input from them.

[Gylden]

Doug,

I would recommend to call the insurance commissioner's office and enlist their help. It is their job and can be quite usefull. I have used the office before when I lived in California and it helped me.

[calmissile]

Doug,

I would recommend to call the insurance commissioner's office and enlist their help. It is their job and can be quite usefull. I have used the office before when I lived in California and it helped me.

Thanks, it has been in the back of my mind.

[lordtiberius]

Thanks, it has been in the back of my mind.

Lol

[calmissile]

Success!!!!       

My decision to call the main office of AAA and not mention any of my previous grief with the field offices paid off.

I simply told the pleasant lady that I wanted to add my wife to my policy.  She took all the info over the phone and gave me a quote of $510 to add her to the policy through the rest of this policy period (end of May).  She downloaded her license data directly from the DMV and I answered a few questions about which car she will drive primarily, date of birth, etc. and that was it.

A little small talk about how great Toyota trucks are (her husband is trying to locate a used one) and of course some chatter about my wife immigrating.

So after coming home from work and planting a big kiss on Larissa, I told her she is now insured and can drive.

I was a little surprised the premium was so high because when I inquired about how high my rates were a couple years ago, I was told that since I have 3 cars, the insurance company rates the policy as though 3 people could be driving them all at the same time.  My argument that I was single and my legs could not stretch to drive 3 at once had no merit.   

At least the current addition is a cheaper option and less hassle than buying her another car and licensing and insuring it separately.  Any future  dealings with AAA will be to the main office by phone, no more branch idiots.

Thanks for all the tips you guys offered.

[ML]

Well, good that you got her officially covered.

But that $510 number is fairly outlandish.

My further suggestion is for you to check with Allstate and State Farm and Hartford (but only through AARP) for the next renewal period.

AND, most importantly, get quotes for having your vehicle and home owners insurance with the SAME carrier.

The saving from having both with the same carrier can be quite substantial.  Just off the top of my head, I think my total went down over $1,000 when I put both types of policies with the same carrier.