Is there a check list?

[Mtnmansummit]

I told you all before I was making my first trip to the Ukraine. Thank you very much for your help there.
Now I would like to know if there is a check list somewhere on the board covering the steps to get there. Maybe a dumb question but II need the information.
What is the logical order and chain of events? Please don't tell me to have written a woman.

[Goombah]

Presuming you are an American:

1) Get US Passport

2) Get Ukraine VISA  (suggest 5-year multi-entry)

3) Buy tickets

4) Make accomidation arrangements, and other visiting plans

5) Use tickets

Kevin

[Bruce]

Goombah has a great list for you.  I'll add that you should start thinking about the luggage and clothing you will wear now.  Versatility is the key.  Less in general is better than more when travelling to a new place.  Additionally, save some space for trinkets.  Do not forget a decent (not great in the event of loss) digital camera.

Also, think about how much cash you will bring, where you will keep it, how many credit cards etc. 

How are you getting to the airport, making arrangements with your family and at work is important before you leave and something you should start thinking about. 

Security for your house is yet another to think about in advance. 

Get a haircut a week or so before you go. 

[Elen]

let's take some drugs for "bad" stomach, because of a chance to catch so called "an illness of the tourists" after drink local water. It is NOT because the water is bad it is because it is DIFFERENT (even in bottles)

[Bruce]

ellen, I have definitely heard about what you say when travelling to all foreign countries.  However, I do not drink the tap water in Russia and buy bottled water for brushing my teeth / water drinking.  I have never been sick in Russia or Ukraine with those practices.  One other thing, on a number of trips I never bought bottled water and just used tap water for brushing my teeth (no swallowing allowed).  So, in my experience it is better gastronomically for the average American than you may think. 

[Elen]

what'sabout "borsch" or "tschi" prepared at "local" water?

Anyway everybody has his own "individual" stomach. And you never know how you sotmach will react at new conditions. Just want you to know a water in Moscow is CLEAN  and satisfys any world standarts. !!

[RacerX]

btw it is not "the" Ukriane, just Ukraine

Although the water may meet some standards, if you drink it you will die!

[Bruno]

I have drink russian water and i am not dead... i think

Only cook the water before is enough... of maybe use some pill with chloor ( hey guys, remember your army time when you drink water directly from river, purify with some little pill )...

[Turboguy]

btw it is not "the" Ukriane, just Ukraine

Although the water may meet some standards, if you drink it you will die!

I think it is not a case that you will die.  It is more a case that you will wish you were dead.  

The experts tell you not to drink the water and to avoid even ice cubes.  On my first trips there I drank the water and had no problem.  On my December '01 tour to Kiev and Moscow with EC I didn't even brush my teeth with it and was sick as a dog.  I thought it was just me at the start and then found everyone else on the tour was going through the same thing.   Believe me that was torture. 

Take some immodium with you.  It is really hard to first find a drug store and then to tell the gals working there that don't speak english what you want.   If you have not been to Europe you might not think to take electrical adapters if you use anything like a hair drier etc.  Russia is 220 and the two round plugs.   Take some kind of small dictonary or an electoronic translater.   You need to make some decisons about a hotel or apartment.   You might want to shop some of the travel sites for some way to keep your money safe.  (I use a sock safe sometimes for part of my money)  When I first went Credit Cards were useless, now they are accepted many places and you can do with less cash.  Make sure you credit cards will work there.  Some companies worry about fraud and will not let you use them unless you notify them in advance. 

[Elen]

The experts tell you not to drink the water and to avoid even ice cubes

Do what experst of yours tell you but STOP OFFEND our water at once!:X It's all about your ill guts rotten with your gamburgers:P

 

As for chlore then THAT you will have enough in Moscow water:D:D

АПТЕКА

That is drug store. (green sigh with white cross in Russia) In Moscow there is one or two small drug stores next to almost EVERY metro station. Just write (not speak ) at English what you want and show a paper to pharmacist

[jb]

I once did a study on the subject of water systems in several of the old cities of the FSU and found some interesting problems.  The water treatment plants were turning out very clean, safe, drinkable water.  Yet at the user end there were huge problems, tap water which was discolored, (rusty pipes in older buildings) and fresh tap water which was contaminated with human fecal matter.  The problems were traced to construction methods and materials.

Lacking the large, fast, earth moving equipment we take for granted, the infarstructure was installed, about 60 odd years ago, (post WWII) in hand dug ditches, and both lines, fresh water supply pipes, and sewer waste lines, were laid alongside the each other in the same trench.  The material used was cast iron with a life expectancy of about 20+ years.  As the pipes aged in the ground, leaks in the rotted piping allowed waste water to co-mingle with the fresh water supply.

Drinking tap water is not recommended.  Getting sick on your trip is a sure fire way to spoil even the best laid plans.  Spending the few extra bucks at the market for bottled drinking water is not a big part of your travel budget anyway, so do yourself a favor and plan on it.

[Elen]

Have not idea in what "holes" you are going find your brides. :?:? that you such worry about "fecals" in your water:D

If water mix with "fecals" you would get Cholera or gepatit A all round a town in few weeks!! Have many proved examples of such events in Russian towns with central water-pipe???

As for bad pipes then I'd tell you know what If things would be such bad as you "immagine" there in the West we will frozen uo to death in the first winter about broken pipers. But we still alive and healthy:P

 

[jb]

Elen,

Some of us made trips to the CCCP long ago, before the MOB era, to do engineering consulting work.  I am only relating what we discovered, and tell you what we recommended to the Central Government as a "fix" for the problems.  I believe the problems were corrected in most parts of Moscow, but still exist in other cities to a large extent.  Places like Vladivostok and other far eastern cities are still waiting for the 20th Century to catch up.  

I'm not trying to offend you, just relating the facts as I know them.

[Elen]

I told - "holes" are the places you are looking for brides:P

[jb]

Elen,

I found my wife in Moscow, she did not crawl out of a "hole".

[Elen]

You CAN't complain at Moscow water then.

[Bruno]

Don't more worry about water in Moscow... because of terrorist  , the water is very strong controled NOW :cool:...

Pravda 10/30/2004


[align=justify]"However, it was decided to take certain measures not to let terrorists attack the Moscow water. "Law-enforcement agencies  guard all water intake areas, police officers patrol them, the 24-hour video surveillance is provided too. Specialists constantly supervise the quality of water, conduct the daily chemical analysis of water samples," Valery Shantsev said. In addition, Moscow authorities plan to start using harmless hypocloride instead of poisonous chlorine to purify water."[/align]

[align=justify]And with the help of USAID[/align]

[align=justify]"Finally, the Moscow water utility and SanEpi (public health) Service adopted the latest U.S. analytical laboratory techniques to more accurately assess the threat of parasitic disease contamination in Moscow's drinking water. "
[/align]

[align=justify]Actual control :[/align]
"The quality of potable water is controlled by the operations of the Moscow Centre of sanitary and epidemiological control. Microbiological indicators that characterize safety of the waters in epidermiological terms are defined twice a day. Organoleptic (odour, colour, transparancy) parameters are checked 6 to 12 times a day (given deterioration of the quality of water, 12 to 24 times a day). The lab control is effected at all stages of water treatment in any technologies."

And now, a last advice for the water ... don't take your hotel near a stay place of Putin :

Moscow Times, July 18, 2002

"Putin's Neighbors Left Without Water


[align=left]
[align=left]OGARYOVO, Moscow Region -- The Ogaryovo village along the prestigious Rublyovskoye Shosse has not had any cold water since Monday, and residents are furious. Their water supply has been cut off to serve the area's prime customer -- President Vladimir Putin.[/align][/align]

[align=left]
[align=left]"It's a nightmare. There is no way to flush the toilet or make preserves, I have berries but can't do anything," Lyudmila Medvednikova, 65, snapped angrily Wednesday." [/align][/align]

[jb]

Elen,

Even so, my wife's flat is in a 25+ years old building.  I didn't trust the plumbing.   My wife's mother is elderly and is not up to the task of hauling water, therefore we had installed an R/O (reverse osmosis) water filtration system in the flat to provide an adequate supply of safe drinking water, and thus we eliminated the problem forever.

Better safe than sorry...

[jb]

And BTW.

I told you all before I was making my first trip to the Ukraine.

And:

btw it is not "the" Ukriane, just Ukraine

We've seen this correction before, and I suppose it's technically correct, but the syntax is good, or at least it sounds right to the ear when it's spoken this way.

We might say, "someone is coming to America", but we also would say they are "coming to the USA".  Likewise we say "going to England", and also "going to the UK.

Without going back to high school English lessons, long since forgotten, a guy might say he's going to Ukrainia, to see a Ukrainian woman, and while he's there he will stay at the Ukraine Hotel.  As long as a post is understandable, I wouldn't worry too much about proper syntax.  

It's all just smoke and mirrors, IMHO.

[Elen]

Ok, guys according to your strong believes about the quality of our water you all are going to be married at mutants:P

BTW There is no chance for you to be next to Ogarevo closer than 100 km

 

btw it is not "the" Ukriane, just Ukraine

Funny:D:D:D Even in English Ukraine managed to make problems with using language.

Explain: Ukraines just DEMAND that Russians mention the word Ukraine on RUSSIAN language ONLY with the preposition "v" - V Ukraine"

but not with the preposition "na" - Na Ukraine" like Russians used to do that for centures :D:D That offends their national dignity.

Let's take that into cosideration:D

[Bruce]

OK, we understand Russian water is ok, but some of the infrastructure is in need of better maintenance (thanks JB) and we travelers, especially first time visitors, are physically fragile initially, so it makes sense to use bottled water for drinking and brushing our teeth etc. 

Elen - I am so happy you are on this board, as JB, Jack, Bruno, BC, Dan, Tigerpaws, Vaugn etc. but your perspective is really refreshing and appreciated.  Yes, continue to tell me why I am dead wrong (not this thread other ones), I always appreciate an education.

Here is one big mistake guys make - plan your trip well in advance ie. three months or so if possible.  Make sure if you fly say on June 15 out of New York your passport entry visa date is either June 15 or June 16 (the usual tourist single entry visa is 30 days, so it is best to make it June 16 when you arrive in the event you want to stay a full 30 days).  Whatever you do, do not make it June 17 ie. miscalculate a day later then when you actually arrive in Russia.  Also, shop around for the best travel deal for yourself.  One caveat, the cheapest travel deal is not necessarily the best travel deal.  My advice: always try to stay with the same carrier and more importantly take direct flights  whenever possible.  If you are thinking about using a subway system in a city you are going to get the map in advance - same goes for rail system, schedules.  They are already on this site on other threads.  Make sure you get a ticket you can change if you need to for flights if possible.  I have never had to change a flight, but so many guys just have to stay another week for whatever reason etc. 

If possible have your bags packed and ready to go up to one week before the trip - that way you will add things as the days go by.  An umbrella is often forgotten.  Copy your visa page and put it in each bag in a top or side pocket in the event your bag is misplaced and has to be retreived by the airline carrier.  Make sure you know the address of where you are staying / going to in Russia with a telephone number in the event your bag is "lost."  Usually they deliver it to you in a day or two.  Make sure in your carry on bag you have an extra underwear for this mishap as well. 

Have a money belt, money pouch or hidden pocket for extra cash. 

[Elen]

so it makes sense to use bottled water for drinking and brushing our teeth etc.

Well I don't want to split out our secrets but bottles are filled from the same  faucet but not form some "holly spring":P (kidding:D)

[Bruce]

Elen, I am starting to think you are as cynical as most New Yorkers!

[Bruno]

For people from Europa, take with you your european identity card... and stay it in the safe of hotel... it is more easy with it for ask a new passport at your ambassy when you loose the original...

For US citizen, have always with you, in a safe place, documentation that establishes identity and citizenship (drivers license, old passport, birth certificate, naturalization certificate, etc.)... for the procedure in case of loose of passport, visit http://moscow.usembassy.gov/consular/wwwhcals.html

[Elen]

Elen, I am starting to think you are as cynical as most New Yorkers!

 Yes I'm :P:P So what?

 Let's keep to scare each other  with "horrors" about life in FSU After you return ( of course if you don't vanish here without a track) from your "Russian safari" you would be able to brag in front of your neighbors about how you got over all difficulties (such as scammers from bad agencies ,  hookers , pretended good women, "faeces" and rust in water, thieves and militia patrols at streets, greedy taxi-drivers…. Did I miss something?? Ah year there are also FSB's (former KGB) agents under your beds and in each phone receiver in each hotel). 

I'm kidding, Americans.:D:D Welcome to Russia. We are not such bad. (But don't forget drugs for your guts, though;))