RUSSIA-The Future 2015 & on

[jone]

The best thing for Obama to do is get on tv and tell Americans of our obligations and that we will back Ukraine up with serious firepower. That will send chills down Putin's spine just as when Reagan said "Tear down this wall."

Reagan was using a general arms race, not an intervention, to send a message to Russia.  Russia is currently fully vested in Ukraine.  I believe that your idea of backing Ukraine with 'serious firepower' would lead to a further round of escalation resulting in a tremendous number of deaths.  As for the quote:  "Tear down this wall."  It was a plea for Russia to join the civilized West.  Gorbachev had already made significant strides in this direction before the call from Reagan came.  Now we find Russia headed in an opposite direction.  I doubt, very much, that Putin would respond as you predict.

[lordtiberius]

Jon, it is also insensitive to repeatedly insult other members. 

In other news, Russian artists throw holy water on Lenin's tomb telling him to get up and leave.
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30893554

[lordtiberius]

Reagan was using a general arms race, not an intervention, to send a message to Russia.  Russia is currently fully vested in Ukraine.  I believe that your idea of backing Ukraine with 'serious firepower' would lead to a further round of escalation resulting in a tremendous number of deaths.  As for the quote:  "Tear down this wall."  It was a plea for Russia to join the civilized West.  Gorbachev had already made significant strides in this direction before the call from Reagan came.  Now we find Russia headed in an opposite direction.  I doubt, very much, that Putin would respond as you predict.

So accommodating Russia will give us peace?

[BillyB]

Reagan was using a general arms race, not an intervention, to send a message to Russia. 

You're kidding right? Everywhere the Soviets went, Reagan went to stop them. There were other wars in Afghanistan than the one you know now. Even in peacetime our and their ships were crashing into each other above and below surface. Fighter jets having close calls too. Being tough and aggressive was the right thing to do. The higher up Soviets respected Reagan so much they attended his funeral.

[lordtiberius]

Billy is right.  The policy was called rollback.  It is the only way to deal with enemies to freedom.

[Faux Pas]

The best thing for Obama to do is get on tv and tell Americans of our obligations and that we will back Ukraine up with serious firepower. That will send chills down Putin's spine just as when Reagan said "Tear down this wall."

Really? You mean Barack Obama? Have you not been paying attention?

[lordtiberius]

Hard to argue against the facts.

[Muzh]

Oh, it's a pizza then, it looked like a tart (pie ) to me.

Nope, it's a huge lasagna.

[Muzh]

Love it!  Any champinones?


Fathertime!

Unfortunately no. My little one don't like them.

[Muzh]

Back in 94 America, under Clinton, asked Ukraine to give up their nukes in exchange for security assurances. Under Obama, we sent money to Ukraine to promote democracy and encouraged them to change. I bet you voted for those two and like those two, you'd rather shy away from responsibility when the going gets tough. Who's going to respect America when we get people into dangerous situations without backing them up? Yeah! Come try democracy, it's great! But make sure to read the small print that says "If America has to face guns, the contract is null and void."

Sigh


I know construction workers are not the most educated ones, but try to follow me here. Ukraine accepted the conditions of the Budapest Memorandum because at that time Russia seemed to be moving away from Soviet imperialism. Not to mention that they still considered the Russians as their friends. Maybe the big threat would come from the US as old habits are hard to break. Still they saw a lot of positive from agreeing to give away their nukes.


Once they declared their independence many western countries offered assistance and encouragement because Ukraine was a vast market waiting to be exploited.


If you are referring to this, yes, I agreed wholeheartedly.


I saw first hand the level of corruption way back around 15 years ago and remember discussing this at length with a Ukrainian writer. Guess what was his main concern regarding corruption? Chernobyl. I still have the book he dedicated to us.


The level of corruption you know today was not in their minds at all and there were plenty of American businesses opening doors.


If anything, it was most probably the American businesses who were most concerned about the rampant corruption, not the everyday Ivan.


What happened was exactly what I told my wife was going to happen. The goons and thugs (oligarchs) felt god-like since they were getting away with murder, literally. That is until this dog decided to bite back.


No, it was not the US Embassy, sex tourist nor the (teenage) mail order bride hunters. NONE of them.


And talking about my responsibility, what do you suppose I do? Talk to my senator and congressman about Ukraine? Already did. I personally spoke with my senator and she said her hands were tied.


So what the fcuk have you done to help Ukraine besides spewing stupid comments?

The best thing for Obama to do is get on tv and tell Americans of our obligations and that we will back Ukraine up with serious firepower. That will send chills down Putin's spine just as when Reagan said "Tear down this wall."


The big difference between then and now is France promoted Americans to fight for freedom to get out from under the British Empire and France actually helped us out. You think Americans fought with pitchforks?

As I said, any more bright ideas, your Illuminati?

[BillyB]

Really? You mean Barack Obama? Have you not been paying attention?

Yeah, I've seen Obama eliminate sanctions on Cuba and threaten to veto legislation if Congress votes to impose more sanctions on Iran should nuclear talks fail. I've seen our friends in the Middle East frustrated with Obama's lack of interest in pursuing ISIS hard. Obama is weak and the world knows it.

Billy is right.  The policy was called rollback.  It is the only way to deal with enemies to freedom.

Here are a few things I know Reagan did when he was president.


When Reagan was elected and before he was inaugurated in, he told Iran he was going to bomb them if they didn't release the prisoners. One Reagan's first day of work, Iran release the prisoners. Reagan still punish Iran for 8 years after by supporting an Iraq war against Iran.


When Libya wanted more international water, Reagan sent a carrier fleet over there to push them back. A friend of mine was on a nuclear carrier and they were going so fast they left their escorts behind and were pushing through the water so hard that the entire ship was shaking violently. The reactors weren't even at max power. After we sunk some Libyan ships, they retreated.


When Libya downed an airliner, Reagan bombed them besides hurting them economically. Most of Europe didn't agree with bombing and didn't allow us to use their airspace but our bombers took off from England and went around Europe to get the job done.


When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan between 79-89, Reagan supplied billions of dollars of weapons to Afghans to punish the Soviets.


When the Soviets wanted more international water in the Black Sea, Reagan sent a fleet there to push back their ships to where they belong and that is when some of our ships played bumper cars with theirs.


Reagan had the guts to enforce international law and prevent those who want to grab land by showing them there are real consequences to their actions. Because he stood up for his principles, he gained respect even from his enemies. Better to nip problems at the bud before they grow too big. Putin is a problem. Their military doctrine has been revised to label us the enemy and their military will be built to eliminate their main threats.

And talking about my responsibility, what do you suppose I do? Talk to my senator and congressman about Ukraine? Already did. I personally spoke with my senator and she said her hands were tied.

What did you tell her? To apply more sanctions? 

So what the fcuk have you done to help Ukraine besides spewing stupid comments?

Sent packages of goods and food over to Ukraine for their soldiers. Gave some money to my MIL who just went back to Ukraine so she could buy them things they need since they are lacking support. You're all talk like Obama. Try action sometimes, you'll feel better. If you see any Ukrainian soldiers eating Spam, that is coming from my mom. She also donated $5000 for their cause.

[Muzh]

Sent packages of goods and food over to Ukraine for their soldiers. Gave some money to my MIL who just went back to Ukraine so she could buy them things they need since they are lacking support. You're all talk like Obama. Try action sometimes, you'll feel better. If you see any Ukrainian soldiers eating Spam, that is coming from my mom. She also donated $5000 for their cause.

Since you are such a testosterone-spewing macho man, why don't you drag that phallic symbol (sword in your avatar just in case what I mean) to Ukraine and chop some Russian heads? How about grab a machine gun and join the cyborgs at the Donetsk Airport?


C'mon, you advocate tough actions. How about it tough guy?

[Gator]

It looks good.  However, doesn't your wife know how to cook?   

As husbands to FSUW, we all love our servings of Slavic cuisine. 

Yet, consider this point.  When planning a night out with friends, the choice of restaurant is frequently the primary discussion topic.  In my decades of such socializing, I have never heard anyone say "Let's do Russian tonight."

I hear the words Chinese, Mexican, Italian, fusion, seafood, Thai, Cuban, Cajun, beef, barbecue, tapas, Greek,........  In Tampa, we have Moroccan restaurants, which I enjoy immensely,  Haitian, Jamaican, Latin American varietals such as Peruvian, etc.   We even have Ethiopian.   But no Russian of note.   I am not sure we have any authentic Eastern European places after a Hungarian restaurant closed.  Think about that.   

[AC]

As husbands to FSUW, we all love our servings of Slavic cuisine. 

Yet, consider this point.  When planning a night out with friends, the choice of restaurant is frequently the primary discussion topic.  In my decades of such socializing, I have never heard anyone say "Let's do Russian tonight."

I hear the words Chinese, Mexican, Italian, fusion, seafood, Thai, Cuban, Cajun, beef, barbecue, tapas, Greek,........  In Tampa, we have Moroccan restaurants, which I enjoy immensely,  Haitian, Jamaican, Latin American varietals such as Peruvian, etc.   We even have Ethiopian.   But no Russian of note.   I am not sure we have any authentic Eastern European places after a Hungarian restaurant closed.  Think about that.

Sounds like a long winded explanation to tell us that your wife does not cook very often. 

[AC]

Since you are such a testosterone-spewing macho man, why don't you drag that phallic symbol (sword in your avatar just in case what I mean) to Ukraine and chop some Russian heads? How about grab a machine gun and join the cyborgs at the Donetsk Airport?


C'mon, you advocate tough actions. How about it tough guy?

What a surprise.  When you cannot make a decent argument which is the case 3 times out of 4, resort to insults.

[BillyB]

What a surprise.  When you cannot make a decent argument which is the case 3 times out of 4, resort to insults.

That's Muzh being Muzh. I've got nothing to be ashamed about. During the first Gulf War I signed up in the Army. During the Vietnam war my father signed up in the Army. During WW2 my grandfather signed up in the Navy. During WW1 my great grandfather signed up in the Army. I've had multiple greats sign up during the Civil war. I guess it's in our genes to sign up when there's trouble instead of running away. Maybe Muzh can enlighten everyone here on his reactions when duty calls?

[AC]

That's Muzh being Muzh. I've got nothing to be ashamed about. During the first Gulf War I signed up in the Army. During the Vietnam war my father signed up in the Army. During WW2 my grandfather signed up in the Navy. During WW1 my great grandfather signed up in the Army. I've had multiple greats sign up during the Civil war. I guess it's in our genes to sign up when there's trouble instead of running away. Maybe Muzh can enlighten everyone here on his reactions when duty calls?

Like most democrats who think that talk means more than actions, he spoke to his Senator.   

[Muzh]

What did you tell her? To apply more sanctions? 

I told to try to follow. It was not that difficult.


Now, let's go slowly.


If the POTUS policy is NOT to arm Ukraine and she is from the same party and she said her arms are tied when I talked to her, what do you think I asked her?


C'mon, think. I know it's difficult for you but did I asked her to apply for more sanctions? Wouldn't that be against the POTUS policy? If she said her hands are tied, does that mean that my request would be ignored?


So, think. What do you think I talked to her about?

[Muzh]

As husbands to FSUW, we all love our servings of Slavic cuisine. 

Yet, consider this point.  When planning a night out with friends, the choice of restaurant is frequently the primary discussion topic.  In my decades of such socializing, I have never heard anyone say "Let's do Russian tonight."

I hear the words Chinese, Mexican, Italian, fusion, seafood, Thai, Cuban, Cajun, beef, barbecue, tapas, Greek,........  In Tampa, we have Moroccan restaurants, which I enjoy immensely,  Haitian, Jamaican, Latin American varietals such as Peruvian, etc.   We even have Ethiopian.   But no Russian of note.   I am not sure we have any authentic Eastern European places after a Hungarian restaurant closed.  Think about that.

I'm pretty sure you frequent Ybor City.


BTW, bit of trivia. What Spanish possession was the first one occupied by the American army during the Spanish-American War?

[Muzh]

What a surprise.  When you cannot make a decent argument which is the case 3 times out of 4, resort to insults.

You a tough guys too? You may want to join Mr. B. here.


Let's see you cut some heads. 

[Muzh]

That's Muzh being Muzh. I've got nothing to be ashamed about. During the first Gulf War I signed up in the Army. During the Vietnam war my father signed up in the Army. During WW2 my grandfather signed up in the Navy. During WW1 my great grandfather signed up in the Army. I've had multiple greats sign up during the Civil war. I guess it's in our genes to sign up when there's trouble instead of running away. Maybe Muzh can enlighten everyone here on his reactions when duty calls?

I'm sorry, but I always thought you were from Filipino descent. My apologies.

[Muzh]

Like most democrats who think that talk means more than actions, he spoke to his Senator.   

This is so funny. Just yesterday I was explaining to my little son that brawns are not always that powerful. I then told him of the old saw The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword and what it means.


Do you want me to explain it to you too?

[lordtiberius]

The Filipinos in my family fight for America including my grandfather, 3 cousins and a brother.  You really need to get a life.

[Muzh]

The Filipinos in my family fight for America including my grandfather, 3 cousins and a brother.  You really need to get a life.

They were here during the Civil War?


Wow!!

[lordtiberius]

WW2.  The Japs captured and almost killed his brother and my great Uncle dog fought Nap Zeroes.