Ukraine is losing the war

[BillyB]

Read the whole thing if you're interested.

I'm interested but not impressed with NATO's response that is designed to discourage Russia's military activities. Since the ceasefire, Ukraine said the separatists have gain 500 sq km of land. They are now in control of 7% of Ukraine and 20% of the population. Putin has stopped talking to Poreshenko for 11 days now and have increase troops and arms into Ukraine. Putin has escalated the war in Ukraine although there is a ceasefire and he is finalizing the papers to bring the breakaway regions of Georgia into Russia's fold. Putin doesn't sound like a man that is discouraged by NATO and continues to gain real estate.


http://news.yahoo.com/russian-fm-says-ukraine-peace-talks-focus-frontline-085305825.html


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-official-putin-escalating-emotional-144936635.html


http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/01/21/expanding-russia-issues-europe-an-ultimatum.aspx

[lordtiberius]

So you get to insult people who pretty much demolish your argument, but the use of your first name is off limits?  Your racists slurs go unpunished until they are directed at you.

Did you write the Minsk accords?  Tell us again about how awesome your different President is.

[lordtiberius]

Where do you get your information? Radio Talk Shows?

White House press briefings

[BillyB]

a lot of people in the US and the world over are getting very sick of the US running around playing world cop. If it's that important to start a war that will involve the EU then let the EU do it. Why can't the US pay more attention to the US? Fix more roads and bridges or maybe improve schools instead of pissing the budget away on the latest crisis du jour.

Steamer, America can do away with all our soldiers and cops and focus on fixing roads and improving schools but unfortunately, that won't be healthy for us. We need security at home and abroad. The EU isn't as healthy as us financially and they don't have a reputation of enforcing international laws. We will always have nations out there that desire more real estate and fortunately for the world, America exists to stop those who have selfish ambitions. We do pay more than our fair share of policing the bad guys in the world but it also benefits us more than anybody else. A safe world is what's needed for capitalism and our economy to thrive. Investing in security is a good investment.

[Steamer]

Steamer, America can do away with all our soldiers and cops and focus on fixing roads and improving schools but unfortunately, that won't be healthy for us. We need security at home and abroad. The EU isn't as healthy as us financially and they don't have a reputation of enforcing international laws. We will always have nations out there that desire more real estate and fortunately for the world, America exists to stop those who have selfish ambitions. We do pay more than our fair share of policing the bad guys in the world but it also benefits us more than anybody else. A safe world is what's needed for capitalism and our economy to thrive. Investing in security is a good investment.

So we need to take over the world because the only alternative is to get rid of our military and police? Things do not have to be viewed in extremes.

[AC]

White House press briefings.

 

[fathertime]

How about "The Great Smoking Hole in the Ground"? Has a nice ring to it.
C'mon! this is what you guys are pushing for. Yessiree, we'll fight to the last drop of Ukraine's blood. 
                               

+377


Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

So we need to take over the world because the only alternative is to get rid of our military and police? Things do not have to be viewed in extremes.

We get it.  You want to abandon Ukraine to Russia.  Noted. 

[Steamer]

We get it.  You want to abandon Ukraine to Russia.  Noted.

Who made you the official sh!t stirrer?

[BillyB]

So we need to take over the world because the only alternative is to get rid of our military and police? Things do not have to be viewed in extremes.

What I was trying to say is that we shouldn't stop providing for security at home or abroad in order to save money since security is a good investment.


I'm not sure America wanted the role of world cop but people kept calling us during WW1, WW2 and in various other conflicts. We were strong and we were reliable at those times. Someone months ago showed that the US military is in over 140 countries and in most of those countries, we were invited. Providing security for many nations has benefits that directly benefit our economy which in turn generates money for fixing roads and schools. Lots of countries want to buy American because by doing that they create a bond with America and Americans and that helps with their security. If America practices Isolationism, I'm pretty sure our country will go downhill.

[lordtiberius]

The world is getting richer except Russia

[jone]

So we need to take over the world because the only alternative is to get rid of our military and police? Things do not have to be viewed in extremes.

Humph!

If anyone seems to be so stupid that they can't think of anything else to do but invade, it is probably Russia.  Nothing could have polarized the world against Russian interests faster than the moves V. Putin has done over the last year.  Just remember, a year ago we were all watching the Olympics and complimenting the Russians on doing a nice job. 

Now, Russian world support is at an all time post Soviet low.  Ukraine is showing itself to be a gutty adversary.

And I predict that the 9 million dollars that Putin contributed to European Union Right Wing Groups is going to come back and bite him where the sun doesn't shine.

For a country that prohibits NGOs, Putin has raised the ire of every government on the European peninsula.  This topic probably deserves a thread of its own because it is intended to destabilize the Union, to further eliminate resistance to Russia's moves.  It is an act of war against the European Union.

[lordtiberius]

Yeah, but its not worth going to war for, right?

[Steamer]

Humph!

If anyone seems to be so stupid that they can't think of anything else to do but invade, it is probably Russia.  Nothing could have polarized the world against Russian interests faster than the moves V. Putin has done over the last year.  Just remember, a year ago we were all watching the Olympics and complimenting the Russians on doing a nice job. 

Now, Russian world support is at an all time post Soviet low.  Ukraine is showing itself to be a gutty adversary.

And I predict that the 9 million dollars that Putin contributed to European Union Right Wing Groups is going to come back and bite him where the sun doesn't shine.

For a country that prohibits NGOs, Putin has raised the ire of every government on the European peninsula.  This topic probably deserves a thread of its own because it is intended to destabilize the Union, to further eliminate resistance to Russia's moves.  It is an act of war against the European Union.

One of the biggest things I like about Russia is that they don't care a bit about what everyone else thinks. They understand PC as a club that is used by the west to beat other countries into submission but NEVER applies to the west. Russia understands its strategic priorities and will protect them. If the west wants to fight about it they'll be happy to oblige.


However the west really doesn't want to fight so instead they dither about and make a lot of empty promises to UA to keep them fighting an unwinnable war. Just because they haven't lost doesn't mean they've won. Soon UA will look like a Mad Max hellscape with the Right Sector "zeig heiling" all over the place.

[Boethius]

Soon UA will look like a Mad Max hellscape with the Right Sector "zeig heiling"
all over the place.

Complete and utter B.S.   You have been listening to too much Russian propaganda.

[Steamer]

Complete and utter B.S.   You have been listening to too much Russian propaganda.

No, I read and watch the news.

[Boethius]

You must not have been watching too closely.  Yarosh received less than 1% of the popular vote in Ukraine's presidential election.  Hardly a threat for Kyiv, even if one assumes he is "far right" (which he denies).

[Изумруд]

Complete and utter B.S.   You have been listening to too much Russian propaganda.

Indeed: really, when people come out with such propaganda, you know debate is pointless; apart from being inaccurate, it shows real laziness.  However, I would agree with Steamer that the West is showing real weakness at present. 

[lordtiberius]

Tony Soprano didn't give a sh!t about political correctness either.  Let's make him Tsar of everyone.

[Изумруд]

No, I read and watch the news.

Then I'm sure you're aware that Pavel Gubarev, the former leader of the DPR, was a member of the neo-Nazi Russian national Unity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity

[Steamer]

Indeed: really, when people come out with such propaganda, you know debate is pointless; apart from being inaccurate, it shows real laziness.  However, I would agree with Steamer that the West is showing real weakness at present.

Ok then, we'll see how all this plays out and then we'll find out who is buying into propaganda BS.

[AC]

Then I'm sure you're aware that Pavel Gubarev, the former leader of the DPR, was a member of the neo-Nazi Russian national Unity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity

I notice he is completely silent about this post, and you could make hundreds of them.  Real Russians waving swatiskas on their VK and facebook pages and then going off to war in Ukraine.  The hypocrasy of these guys like "Steamer" and their fascist heros in Russia is mind boggling.

excerpt
"Racism in Russia appears mainly in the form of negative attitudes and actions by Russians towards people who are not considered ethnically Russian. Traditionally, Russian racism included antisemitism, as well as hostility towards various ethnicities of Caucasus and Central Asia.[1] The director of the Moscow Bureau for Human Rights, Alexander Brod, stated that surveys show xenophobia and other racist expressions are prevalent in 50 percent of Russians.[2] In 2006, Amnesty International reported that racism in Russia was “out of control” and estimated the number of Russian neo-Nazis at around 85,000 in 2008.[3][4] But despite all this Russia is the second largest immigration receiver after the United States. Russia has also the second highest immigration rate in Eastern Europe after the Czech Republic[5] while other European countries like Germany and Poland stay very homogeneous with lower openness for immigrants."[5][6]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia

[Taz]

A very well written article about the current state and the almost total lack of support (if you don't flowery rhetoric by Obama) from the US.


http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/22/the-death-of-ukraines-cyborg-army-ukraine-russia-donetsk-airport-shelling/?

[lordtiberius]

. when more than 400 Ukrainian soldiers were nearly butchered on live, Russian state-controlled television

The sources on this forum stated the kill ration was 50:1.  Someone's facts are off.

This is a must read.  Props to TAZ for posting.

[Taz]

The sources on this forum stated the kill ration was 50:1.  Someone's facts are off.

This is a must read.  Props to Tax for posting.

LT - Tax or Taz for posting?