So does anyone here ever go to Ukraine or Russia to date anymore?

[Muzh]

A few UW I talked to told me that sex with men whom they met for the first time and without sufficient face time is a no go. They also told me a man is considered sex tourist even without 'pay and lay'. That is consistent with those Lady B, C scenarios I mentioned earlier. But then again, some posters will say these ladies are also 'uptight'.

You are making that up. Or you are talking to the "ladies" of the Baptist Chapter in Ukraine?

To other posters: When did I ever say Nightwish cannot do what he is doing? When did I infringe his sex rights as an adult? And when is someone uptight or not? Is another person uptight just because he doesn't agree with your notion about sex?

Didn't you just accused him of being a sex-tourist? And then Pooh-Pooh on sex-tourists?

I don't stop Nightwish's approach. But I think deep down I am a bit disappointed with many replies here celebrating the 'get laid' counts instead of what matters most: actually dating (in a genuine way) and later marrying that one lady. I did not see this in Nightwish's approach with Lady B. If Lady B just want to have fun, then that's fine by me. We are all speculating here, even if Nightwish gives more detail, it is still biased, unless lady B is also here. But I doubt Lady B only wanted to have fun. There are no shortage of hunks in Kiev, just saying.

Opinionated: Yours is the only (genuine) way of doing this. Also, having sex and include it in a trip report is bad.

Also Nightwish failed with that Kherson lady, with whom he spent most time with the best deep and meaningful communication. It seems like everyone shoves this under the carpet, and keep focusing on that 2 weeks communication Kiev lady with a getting laid ending. Has anyone probed deeper about why that failed? Instead, all are up in arms about this 'sex', even invoking the Shakers and playing that virginity card. At least no one mentions Mormon yet.

Intransigent: Your way or the highway.

Every man may do whatever he wants, but I recommend keeping some of the things private and discreet  Whatever we post here, it forms an impression, and I will not be surprised if some UW are looking through a thread like this. Some of you may selectively uphold Boe's and a few other women's opinion here, but as far as I know, there were very few women posters and they were given the royal treatment here whatever they said. Show this thread (especially the part started by Nightwish) to thousands of UW and see what are their average impression of foreign men.

All of the above: The rules of posting are to change for you to be happy. Nice try.

[Muzh]

I go for UW under 30 and I think many are getting laid in the past. As I have said, it is mandatory process to move in with the boyfriend. Most have had boyfriends in the past. Nobody is living in la-la land.

How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

[Muzh]

I don't think that's too implausible. One time at Tashkent international airport, the girl checking passports in one of those booths at customs, gave me this flirtatious smile upon seeing me, coupled with prolonged eye contact. The first thing she said to me wasn't, "Can I have your passport," but, "You are from overseas?" Well, I just came from an international flight from Turkey...But yeah, after checking my passport and giving me back my registration card, whilst smiling at me the whole time, I noticed I now also had an extra piece of paper...And no it wasn't cocaine, it was her email.

Maybe I'm loking at things the wrong way and she just wanted a pen-pal to practice her English, maybe I look like a sucker - I know that's how FSU airport taxi drivers see me - but yeah, if a guy is good-looking enough, perceived as a viable way out of their country, or looked like free English lessons, it's possible.

You can say the guy was being a braggard looking for validation from anonymous men on an internet forum, and probably lived a pitiful existence, and I'd agree with you, but still, it's not too implausible.

You lucky dog.


In every one of my trips to Ukraine the passport control babe I go through looks like this.

[ML]

These are the ones I see at passport control.

[Nightwish]

Well since I am being discussed here I can clarify a couple of things..

Lady A from Kherson was a 34 year old "almost virgin", she had not had any lasting relationship since her teenage years, she was talked in to taking contact with me by a friend and while it was - i would not say romantic letters going between us - they where at least quite honest and always with that strike of hope in between the lines.

Now I was the perfect gentleman when I arrived, I had - upon her suggestion - rented an apartment (not by her choosing, so not in any way a scam) We had separate bedrooms and we all together had a nice time, but she was very shy and very insecure since she did not understand a word I said, and all an all a very pleasant and sweet girl. When we parted we stayed in contact and still do, and she has realized that she was not ready to meet a foreigner, she felt to much insecure on herself to really enjoy everything but was very very happy that she had tried it.

Lady B from Kiev was a 30 year old single mother, well we had an instant physical connection, right from the start and in the few letters we exchanged before going on Skype, we both where kind of delighted how good sense of humor we shared, how alike we seemed to be, in tune mind wise I would say.
She was quite good in writing English, and not bad in speaking it, even if we had some mixups along the way. We spent a wonderful evening downtown in Kiev before going back to my hotel, it was an instant attraction. When it was time to part we both looked at each other and I think we both had came to the same conclusion, we where quite good together in bed, but that spark just wasn't there.... And we parted as quite good friends and said if we were both still single in a year we should try it again..but that time in separate rooms so we really got to know each other....and not just where that special place she had the cutest dimple was...

If this makes me a sex-tourist..well shoot.. I take it!

With my two new jewels from Odessa, well I will try my hardest to avoid any physical contact with them,...so mroz87 feels more comfortable...and if they insist on touching me in any way, I am going to show them this thread... 

[LAman]

Well since I am being discussed here I can clarify a couple of things..

Lady A from Kherson was a 34 year old "almost virgin", she had not had any lasting relationship since her teenage years, she was talked in to taking contact with me by a friend and while it was - i would not say romantic letters going between us - they where at least quite honest and always with that strike of hope in between the lines.

 

Is that anything like being 'almost pregnant' ??????  or maybe 'not inhaling' ??????

[RoboCop]

I don't think mroz87 is as bad or evil as everyone thinks he is. He just strikes me as someone who is inexperienced with women, and has a naive conception of how relationships naturally evolve.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he probably wouldn't be considered attractive by the American, or FSU paradigm of beauty in a male. In my mind that is the only logical reason why he developed such a perspective on things.

His jadedness is more of a reflection of this inexperience.The fact he refuses to accept the possibility a UW women could do what she did with nigthwish consensually, without him misleading her, is concerning.

Go easy on the guy. He went to Ukraine from Australia with good intentions and failed. He's younger than most men on this forum, and was probably a bit naive about the whole thing.

I still wish you the best of luck. Re-group yourself and get back out there after profiting from your experience.

[LAman]

I don't think mroz87 is as bad or evil as everyone thinks he is. He just strikes me as someone who is inexperienced with women, and has a naive conception of how relationships naturally evolve.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he probably wouldn't be considered attractive by the American, or FSU paradigm of beauty in a male. In my mind that is the only logical reason why he developed such a perspective on things.

His jadedness is more of a reflection of this inexperience.The fact he refuses to accept the possibility a UW women could do what she did with nigthwish consensually, without him misleading her, is concerning.

Go easy on the guy. He went to Ukraine from Australia with good intentions and failed. He's younger than most men on this forum, and was probably a bit naive about the whole thing.

I still wish you the best of luck. Re-group yourself and get back out there after profiting from your experience.

Why is it someone comes back home from a trip without marriage proposal or steady gf ......he has FAILED?
Everyone has their own goals and expectations!! My first trip was to get home safe and sound , another was to get home healthy. another was to see if a girl/s were compatible or not. It is a journey, a process, some like to take time to be sure while others decide on spot. Exactly where is it I have failed all these years??? I consider myself in a better place than I was a few years back.

[Muzh]

I don't think mroz87 is as bad or evil as everyone thinks he is. He just strikes me as someone who is inexperienced with women, and has a naive conception of how relationships naturally evolve.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he probably wouldn't be considered attractive by the American, or FSU paradigm of beauty in a male. In my mind that is the only logical reason why he developed such a perspective on things.

His jadedness is more of a reflection of this inexperience.The fact he refuses to accept the possibility a UW women could do what she did with nigthwish consensually, without him misleading her, is concerning.

Go easy on the guy. He went to Ukraine from Australia with good intentions and failed. He's younger than most men on this forum, and was probably a bit naive about the whole thing.

I still wish you the best of luck. Re-group yourself and get back out there after profiting from your experience.

I don't think he is an evil person, just a little fcuked up.


AND for someone without much experience, too opinionated.

[AC]

Why is it someone comes back home from a trip without marriage proposal or steady gf ......he has FAILED?
Everyone has their own goals and expectations!! My first trip was to get home safe and sound , another was to get home healthy. another was to see if a girl/s were compatible or not. It is a journey, a process, some like to take time to be sure while others decide on spot. Exactly where is it I have failed all these years??? I consider myself in a better place than I was a few years back.

 

(I have nothing against Robocop's post in fact it was very good; I just think this is also very important, and that is whatever you do in life is a journey)

[Nightwish]

but but butt 

I still haven't seen an answer to why several members (more then one) has said on numerous times, stay away from these Odessa girls..
What makes them such a "bad" choice?

[Muzh]

but but butt 

I still haven't seen an answer to why several members (more then one) has said on numerous times, stay away from these Odessa girls..
What makes them such a "bad" choice?

The honest truth?


Maybe the boatload of old geezers chasing girls their grandaughters' age and the girls more than willing to help them part with their money.

[Nightwish]

The honest truth?


Maybe the boatload of old geezers chasing girls their grandaughters' age and the girls more than willing to help them part with their money.

and this is only limited to Odessa? 

[ML]

but but butt 

I still haven't seen an answer to why several members (more then one) has said on numerous times, stay away from these Odessa girls..
What makes them such a "bad" choice?

This has been discussed here at length in several different threads over the years.

Try to do a search to get the full-blown discussions.

But basically, it boils down to this:

1) Several guys (included myself) have first hand experience that the women in Odesa are much less sincere, honest, trustworthy, etc., in general than gals from other parts of Ukraine.

2) The reasons are not totally clear, but possibly due to Odesa being a seaport that receives thousands of sailors and visitors and the women have adopted a mentality toward men that often occurs in such towns around the world.

3) There is also some reason to believe the women's mentality in Odesa is influenced by their ethnic makeup which is somewhat different (in general) than the rest of Ukraine.

[Muzh]

and this is only limited to Odessa? 

Well, it is one of the MOST advertised city in Ukraine (by the honest agency owners) where a 69 yo man can date a 20 yo babe.

[BillyB]

2) The reasons are not totally clear, but possibly due to Odesa being a seaport that receives thousands of sailors and visitors and the women have adopted a mentality toward men that often occurs in such towns around the world.

That could be a factor. When I was in the Army, the women outside the post in the nearest town were different than the ladies back home. Not all towns outside military bases allowed strip clubs and prostitutes if they police those activities and deny business license to clubs. Girls living in towns without commercial sex entertainment had jaded views of men, probably because they get hit on constantly by men who are immature and not serious.

[RoboCop]

Why is it someone comes back home from a trip without marriage proposal or steady gf ......he has FAILED?
Everyone has their own goals and expectations!! My first trip was to get home safe and sound , another was to get home healthy. another was to see if a girl/s were compatible or not. It is a journey, a process, some like to take time to be sure while others decide on spot. Exactly where is it I have failed all these years??? I consider myself in a better place than I was a few years back.

Well, I wasn't talking about you, what I was talking about was pertinent to mroz's situation. He went to Kiev, with the objective of metting a lady to start a romantic relationship with. By his account, all he met was disinterested women and pro-daters, so based on that, he failed. Now if he had the same objectives as you, then he didn't fail, but once again, by his accounts, he didn't achieve his objective, so therefore, he failed.

[Faux Pas]

mroz
Your outlook very much comes off as negative and jaded. Your views on sex are downright draconian and outdated to say the least. For most grown adults sex, doesn't define the relationship unless of course it is only about sex to one or both parties. Sex can happen within minutes of a first meeting or weeks. That really depends on the individuals and does not define or categorize them.

Apparently most of the women you've spoken to are prudes or they are lying. I would gamble on the latter. The brass tax is, most single people are getting laid and they are not marrying those that they bed. Sexual gratification is a response to a need that most folks only need an "adequate" partner to achieve, not necessarily a marriage partner. IMHO, you are well past overly judgemental of the women you say you know/knew and Nightwish. People have sex all the time without any further commitment or obligations and unfettered by your moral judgements.

[Faux Pas]

but but butt 

I still haven't seen an answer to why several members (more then one) has said on numerous times, stay away from these Odessa girls..
What makes them such a "bad" choice?

I've never been to Ukraine but, I can tell you this. If you need the "shooting fish in a barrel" approach, Odessa is probably a wrong choice of city to visit, go elsewhere. If you are comfortable in your skin, have dating options at home, know how to woo and date women and are not intimidated by competition Odessa is as good as any other city.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what city or country you are in, it is still boy meets girl. It doesn't matter if she is in a busy seaport town, capitol city or in the boondocks. A match can be a match anywhere but even matches made in heaven have to be developed and fostered into relationships.

[Gator]

The brass tax is, most single people are getting laid and they are not marrying those that they bed.

Am I missing something?

I gave your post an "Excellent" up to this point.  From one perspective, you are correct in that a person (man or woman) can marry only one and not all the hundreds they have had sex with. 

My guess, 99% + of the men and women who marry (in the West) have had  sex together before marriage.  Someone please give up the latest Cosmo survey.   

[Faux Pas]

Am I missing something?

I gave your post an "Excellent" up to this point.  From one perspective, you are correct in that a person (man or woman) can marry only one and not all the hundreds they have had sex with. 

My guess, 99% + of the men and women who marry (in the West) have had  sex together before marriage.  Someone please give up the latest Cosmo survey.

Ah no. How about this.

mroz
Your outlook very much comes off as negative and jaded. Your views on sex are downright draconian and outdated to say the least. For most grown adults sex, doesn't define the relationship unless of course it is only about sex to one or both parties. Sex can happen within minutes of a first meeting or weeks. That really depends on the individuals and does not define or categorize them.

Apparently most of the women you've spoken to are prudes or they are lying. I would gamble on the latter. The brass tax is, most single people are getting laid and they are not necessarily marrying those that they bed. Sexual gratification is a response to a need that most folks only need an "adequate" partner to achieve, not necessarily a marriage partner. IMHO, you are well past overly judgemental of the women you say you know/knew and Nightwish. People have sex all the time without any further commitment or obligations and unfettered by your moral judgements.

[ML]

My guess, 99% + of the men and women who marry (in the West) have had  sex together before marriage.

Billy Bob and Missy Sue got married.
They headed down the road to first motel out of town.
As she came out of bathroom with new lingerie on she said:
"You knows Billy Bob this will be my first time."
Billy Bob: "Yes, I knows this is our first time."
Missy Sue: "No, I mean my first time ever."
Billy Bob:  "What the sheeeet . . . I'm outa here."
Billy Bob drives back up road to parent's house.
His Dad: "Billy Bob, why you back here and not down the road poking Missy Sue."
Billy Bob: "Can you believe that no good woman hain't never been screwed."
Dad: "You did the right thing leaving her.  If'n she hain't good enough for her family . . . she hain't good enough for ours."

[Jumper]

and this is only limited to Odessa? 

No it's not the only place,
but do not doubt its a booming business there, with an entire industry of agencies, taxi drivers,interpreters ,  cafes, finer restaurants,flats,  clubs, and even shops, set up with it,and it was likely a significant percent  of the cities tourism in the past, but less prominent now.
 By the way, if guys feel they were gleaned by a pro dater shopping, they may be more surprised the shops may have bought those items back,as the dater pre-arranged, there are numerous other soft scams, inflated tourist prices etc.

 I do not advise to look for scam everywhere .. in fact advise the opposite, treat individuals as legit until given good reason not to!!

but to think Odesa wasn't ,and isn't , a big hub for that kind of shamming would be going in there truly blind.

If a man has what seems good good contacts there, no problem.

If his contacts are through agencies,, he has a 50/50 shot at best of it being legit, as its just as easily all soft sham..from the trip from the airport, to his flat rental, and all meetings and interaction.

It happens again and again, the stories of failures and sham there are endless  and men interested in this venture seemingly flock there..
Why? the men in general are not headed there because more legit/sincere UW live in Odessa than else where? lol
 It's because the affiliate agencies operating there are more active and have more internet presence/profiles etc up.
luring them right in.

[Gator]

Ah no. How about this.

George Bernard Shaw lives among us.   

[Gator]

Billy Bob and Missy Sue got married.
They headed down the road to first motel out of town.
As she came out of bathroom with new lingerie on she said:
"You knows Billy Bob this will be my first time."
Billy Bob: "Yes, I knows this is our first time."
Missy Sue: "No, I mean my first time ever."
Billy Bob:  "What the sheeeet . . . I'm outa here."
Billy Bob drives back up road to parent's house.
His Dad: "Billy Bob, why you back here and not down the road poking Missy Sue."
Billy Bob: "Can you believe that no good woman hain't never been screwed."
Dad: "You did the right thing leaving her.  If'n she hain't good enough for her family . . . she hain't good enough for ours."

IIRC you are from West By God Virginia or thereabouts, so this must be a true story.   

Heard that one a long time ago, but I consider it the best of the WV incest jokes.