At the risk of some venomous spew...Hello

[jone]

AC -

The idea that a lady wants a Mazda is a red flag is beyond my comprehension.  The Mazdas are one of the cheapest cars.  Like buying a KIA.  Now, I am not going to debate the amount of money spent on cars, but you seem to be the one not dealing in reality. 

Your new wife comes her, you buy her a car.  If you are unable to do so, go to a Latino bride website and get someone from South America so you don't have to spend any money on her.

My gal was driving a beaten up Ford Fiesta or some such car when I met her.  We upgraded her significantly since then.  You may want to adjust your expectations of what it will take to keep an Eastern European woman happy.    And if you can't afford it, look South of our border.

[Ade]

I know that getting her acclimated will be an exercise in patience and "cutting her loose" will be an exercise in fear.

"Knowing" this in a theoretical sense has little bearing on how it will be for you in reality and it can go way beyond that if your lady suffers even a mild case of culture shock. This may be exacerbated even further if you are relative strangers - and don't kid yourself, you will be until you've spent months and months living under the same roof.


At least you aren't like the usual foolish one week wonder that is "in love" with someone 20+ years their junior that can barely say "hello" in English without the help of Google translate. Still, the fact that you've not met yet and are planning the wedding is so way out there that it makes me think you (and perhaps her**) aren't thinking straight... 


**Rarely will a sensible, rational woman with options consider, discuss and plan to marry a stranger from another country that she's never met. More commonly, women that will and do are scammers, GCG, and/or really desperate women that have no choice but to marry the first guy she can get her hooks into (not a good basis for a marriage although there's at least one other guy on this forum that seems to be ignoring that fact).

[LiveFromUkraine]

AC -

The idea that a lady wants a Mazda is a red flag is beyond my comprehension.  The Mazdas are one of the cheapest cars.  Like buying a KIA.  Now, I am not going to debate the amount of money spent on cars, but you seem to be the one not dealing in reality. 

Your new wife comes her, you buy her a car.  If you are unable to do so, go to a Latino bride website and get someone from South America so you don't have to spend any money on her.

My gal was driving a beaten up Ford Fiesta or some such car when I met her.  We upgraded her significantly since then.  You may want to adjust your expectations of what it will take to keep an Eastern European woman happy.    And if you can't afford it, look South of our border.

Why a Latino wife if some dude can't afford a car?  They don't drive?

[BillyB]

I think the lady telling you that she wants a white Mazda is a huge red flag, but you haven't seemed to notice.

Under normal conditions that is a red flag but we have to take into consideration they are practically husband and wife and finances and how they are going to live their life should be talked about at this stage. Most of us can agree they shouldn't be at this stage before a first meeting but it is what it is. We should hope Ken found a sweetheart he can trust instead of a woman who's playing him.

[Bruce lee]

Trust me, I'll post a Trip Report!!!

Pretty much everybody who has experienced success has been where you are now – the anticipation of first trip and the meeting with an exotic lady different to anybody you have ever spoken to – most of us here would have had the same outcome – the first trip was the springboard to take you on further a learning curve of sorts.

Stats suggest that you have a good a chance as anybody – however, not sure how many one hit wonders there are on these forums, I’d probably say not many – possibly 15% at a guess (maybe somebody has an idea).

Enjoy the trip but keep a thought that most of us that have been through this stage before and crashed and burned before success – as positive as your story is the chances are high that there may be an almighty thud in the state of Utah sometime mid-March when you crash back down to earth – of course you may prove us all wrong and become the exception to the rule – whatever happens, good luck and luck forward to reading the TR.

Good luck and enjoy Moscow

[KenInUtah]

Thanks guys.  This isn't my first foray into international, just into FSU.  maybe there will be a big thud.  No one can predict it.  I hope not but it is always possible.  There are no guarantees.  As for the car, I asked her what kind she wanted, not her telling me.  A used one is about $4000 and I look for deals on cars all the time anyway, its a side job of sorts.

When she called this morning, she told me she sent me flowers for Valentines Day.  She felt bad because she had to tell me because she wanted me to check and see if she did it right online.  She did.  That meant a lot to me. 

[bagalia]

Everything said in this thread is relevant to you and you should go over it all again just to keep it in mind. Normal marriage is a 50/50 thing as it is but an international one is more strangely complicated. We are much the same yet very different and some of those differences will color your future in ways you cannot now imagine. Most of what the others have said I have also seen myself. My own wife has said that I am extremely different from when we met and that's not saying better.

As a previous agency owner I have known a hundred others just like you and that is not a bad criticism. It is a normal observation and it includes myself. Doesn't matter what you think, it is a 50/50 crap shoot. You will get it mostly figured out after meeting her. She (or you) may not feel the chemistry. If she does not then will she pull out or take you as 2nd choice? Will you see the difference? The answer is not likely, at least for a year or so.

I have also seen perfectly good starts such as yours fall totally dead over some stupid little thing. One man I knew bought a piece of cake to share between the two of them and thought it would be romantic. She thought it to be totally cheap of him and refused to see him ever again. Another man found his whole lifestyle under Russian control from the first minute he landed and had to sneak off just to drink a soda. That lasted most of a week. Another thought that a strong-willed business woman was an amazing thing for Russia until that will was turned against him which is a case of "you usual get what you look for in Russia".

I am not trying to discourage you. You will do as you wish just as we all did what we wished. There are two things I do want to place in your head though.

1. Of the men who went to Russia and failed on the first WOVO attempt both in my experience and on newsgroups probably 90% were emotionally devastated, had no backup plan and sat in an apartment for the rest of their trip effectively wasting the entire effort and expense. Of those who had a minimal backup plan they often got screwed paying high in-country fees to meet new women on short notice.

2. I understand that you are a one woman kind of guy and I was originally the same. I call it being shy. Once I saw about a thousand women walk through the door I realized that it was all only about interviews. The effort is upon the woman to get you into her arms. You can meet a thousand women but her choices are much more limited. Be wary of everything until and after you meet. These women understand men totally. You are likely in love now and she is most likely not at this time but you would not likely go meet her if you thought she was not.

The initial meeting is where it all starts regardless of what you think or feel and often what you feel gets in the way of that. She will not have that problem. I have been on the female side of the picture enough to know this as fact.

But to finish my #2 suggestion... It is all about interviews and backup plans. Know exactly what you can do and how you can do it if things go south. Know where and how to meet other women. Do not be afraid of interviews at all. Think of it as interviewing for a new friend. It is really quite easy and while you eliminate half you are also eliminated by half. You end up meeting a few that can be your best friend and then perhaps find chemistry there also.

Some women say they would never be involved in an interview but most think nothing of it. It is an opportunity for a free meal or desert and to meet a foreign man who could possibly be the second half. If it is no sweat to them it should be no sweat to you. At the very least know where and how you can find them cheaply.

[Jumper]

Ken-

It may seem to many of us the two of you have the cart in front of the horse until you have met. That's a bit rational isn't it?
A bit of over investment, which is not advisable in long distance virtual *relationships*.
She seemingly has those same early expectations ,its not one sided,so over all,it  doesn't matter as long as you both wont be devastated if it isn't what you dream when actually meeting.

No one is trying to rain on your parade, they just hope both of you can easily rebound and take it in stride,  if the face to face isn't what you both have envisioned,as you have both taken it as far as possible,
to the meeting being merely a prelude to the  marriage, with a dress picked out ,and white picket fence

As Livefromukraine mentioned its  dependent on the two of yours attitudes. My wife dint really believe i'd show up. Even after alot of communication , calls ,skype, and her knowing well the flight number and date of my arrival. She also dint have ANY plans of marrying, naturally, as she dint really believe think i'd even show..lol and certainly did not know me even after a few visits.
If my initial visit had gone south, I had plans to enjoy my trip regardless.The whole plan B thing can be really simple, be of the mindset it might not work out, and be able to enjoy your time regardless.
  I really doubt anyone needs the names of dating sites, or other women,  written down in their pocket,as google is their friend.
They just need the  attitude to move forward ,and enjoy their visit.

The amount of past posters that have been overly emotionally invested , and then did indeed sit in the hotel room totally despondent is what the concern is.
*********************

By the way flat rental is the way to go when visiting (no hotels)

We'd be happy to give some advise on her relocation and adjustment period as well, but figure you guys should at least meet first! lol
but as a rule she'll have some culture shock regardless how well versed she feels she is in western culture., unless living in the west prior.
The overall adaptation is quite individualistic as you'd imagine.
 Some people will struggle a lot, others adapt like a duck to water.

I wish you both a great luck and a good meeting...
and look forward to hearing about your experiences!

[KenInUtah]

Thanks Guys.  I know everyone is speaking of experiences and I appreciate that.  Should things go south, my plan is to just have fun in Moscow as it will be my first time there.  I am emotionally invested and should it be a trainwreck, I'll just have fun and meet people.

[BillyB]

Of the men who went to Russia and failed on the first WOVO attempt both in my experience and on newsgroups probably 90% were emotionally devastated, had no backup plan and sat in an apartment for the rest of their trip effectively wasting the entire effort and expense.

Very believable. Many guys don't have a plan in the event of failure since they believed they couldn't fail. They cry. They wonder what they are going to say to family and friends. They question themselves for being so stupid to spend thousands of dollars and lose time from work on a first date. They perform desperate acts and beg the woman they're visiting for another chance.

I really doubt anyone needs the names of dating sites, or other women,  written down in their pocket,as google is their friend.

There are times Google can be the enemy. When a guy searches for dating/marriage sites, usually the first ones are ones that have scammed men before. As Bagalia said, they will also pay expensive fees to get dates from those agencies. It's best a guy does his homework now and prepare for anything. Mamba.ru can get guys dates same day for free. A guy can also meet women on the street, restaurants, or coffee shops. I've walked up to women in the past and introduced myself and asked if I could have a seat at their table. A guy could easily get 3 phone numbers a day from meeting ladies in public. Rejection will happen but doesn't discourage me.

[AC]

AC -

The idea that a lady wants a Mazda is a red flag is beyond my comprehension.  The Mazdas are one of the cheapest cars.  Like buying a KIA.  Now, I am not going to debate the amount of money spent on cars, but you seem to be the one not dealing in reality. 

Your new wife comes her, you buy her a car.  If you are unable to do so, go to a Latino bride website and get someone from South America so you don't have to spend any money on her.

My gal was driving a beaten up Ford Fiesta or some such car when I met her.  We upgraded her significantly since then.  You may want to adjust your expectations of what it will take to keep an Eastern European woman happy.    And if you can't afford it, look South of our border.

They have not even met.  They are hardly man and wife.  Total speculation and not healthy IMO.  Of course you are more than welcome to disagree, however most would agree that it is indeed a red flag, because they've never met.

You upgrading your GF's car -- good for you.  Needless to say this happened after you met and after you had a real relationship.  The rest of your post is nonsensical however your attempted dig is noted.

[Muzh]

Red flags could be anything. Here are a few examples:

1. She sees you once out of every three days and only for a few hours at a time.

2. She's an alcoholic drinking morning, noon, and night.

3. She's sweet with you but rude to everybody else especially to food servers in restaurants.

4. She takes you into high end stores and points at shoes and clothing worth hundreds and tells you those are things she's always wanted.

5. Her house is a big mess, except for the room you see her in Skype.

6. She doesn't make you a home cooked meal.

7. She discloses unpleasant things during your visit that she never disclosed before such as she's still legally married.


Ken, what if some, all, or other things like that popped up? Are you ready to walk? Do you have the ability to walk away? Because you don't know how you'd react if a red flag popped up, I'm not sure you can make rational decisions. Nobody is perfect yet you've had nothing but praise for this lady. She has flaws. Hopefully they aren't major.

Here's mine.


She's a teenager.

[Muzh]

AC -

The idea that a lady wants a Mazda is a red flag is beyond my comprehension.  The Mazdas are one of the cheapest cars.  Like buying a KIA.  Now, I am not going to debate the amount of money spent on cars, but you seem to be the one not dealing in reality. 

Your new wife comes her, you buy her a car.  If you are unable to do so, go to a Latino bride website and get someone from South America so you don't have to spend any money on her.

My gal was driving a beaten up Ford Fiesta or some such car when I met her.  We upgraded her significantly since then.  You may want to adjust your expectations of what it will take to keep an Eastern European woman happy.    And if you can't afford it, look South of our border.

Tell me about it.


I told my wife, you want a Mercedes you buy it. And she did. Then I told her that this is not the end of it. I want a Porsche.


TALK about red flags!!!!

[Muzh]

"Knowing" this in a theoretical sense has little bearing on how it will be for you in reality and it can go way beyond that if your lady suffers even a mild case of culture shock. This may be exacerbated even further if you are relative strangers - and don't kid yourself, you will be until you've spent months and months living under the same roof.


At least you aren't like the usual foolish one week wonder that is "in love" with someone 20+ years their junior that can barely say "hello" in English without the help of Google translate. Still, the fact that you've not met yet and are planning the wedding is so way out there that it makes me think you (and perhaps her**) aren't thinking straight... 


**Rarely will a sensible, rational woman with options consider, discuss and plan to marry a stranger from another country that she's never met. More commonly, women that will and do are scammers, GCG, and/or really desperate women that have no choice but to marry the first guy she can get her hooks into (not a good basis for a marriage although there's at least one other guy on this forum that seems to be ignoring that fact).

Ouch, that's kind of harsh.


However, you cannot argue that FSU women aren't pragmatic and practical.

[Muzh]

Thanks guys.  This isn't my first foray into international, just into FSU.  maybe there will be a big thud.  No one can predict it.  I hope not but it is always possible.  There are no guarantees. As for the car, I asked her what kind she wanted, not her telling me.  A used one is about $4000 and I look for deals on cars all the time anyway, its a side job of sorts.

When she called this morning, she told me she sent me flowers for Valentines Day.  She felt bad because she had to tell me because she wanted me to check and see if she did it right online.  She did.  That meant a lot to me.

Lease.

[Muzh]

Normal marriage is a 50/50 thing as it is ....
 

Nope, it's 100%/100%

[Muzh]

Thanks Guys.  I know everyone is speaking of experiences and I appreciate that.  Should things go south, my plan is to just have fun in Moscow as it will be my first time there.  I am emotionally invested and should it be a trainwreck, I'll just have fun and meet people.

Ken, this would be a good time for you pause the RWD and take a breather. Stay away from this thread and any more advice. Then come back with a trip report.


Seriously.


Good luck Bud.

[cc3]

Ken, this would be a good time for you pause the RWD and take a breather. Stay away from this thread and any more advice. Then come back with a trip report.


Seriously.


Good luck Bud.

+1000!

[Gator]

My wife dint really believe i'd show up. Even after alot of communication , calls ,skype, and her knowing well the flight number and date of my arrival. She also dint have ANY plans of marrying, naturally, as she dint really believe think i'd even show..

IMO such is a good indication that a FSUW really cares. 

FSUW have experienced many more disappointments in their lives than have their AW peers.  So many disappointments that optimistic women can be pessimistic about something very precious to them.

They never celebrate anything early.   This is both a defensive mechanism and one of their many superstitions.  If the consular officer says "Your visa to America is approved," they are happy of course, but will not have a party with friends until one week later when the document is in their hands, fully examined and verified as having no mistakes. 

[Patagonie]

I have learned to be careful about discussing money amongst our FSU friends and relatives. So much of Western life in lived on a different financial plane than most FSU folk can imagine. Even now, my wife carefully steers/controls/guides conversations when a relative or friend pops the "how much do you make?" question. By the way, in FSU culture, that question is not out of bounds. We'd be appalled in the West, but this something often freely discussed in this part of the world.

The problem is bridging the gap. If you live full time in the West, the way you live and handle finances just isn't a mirror of the Eastern world. You might be comfortable, or even on a tight budget, but the amount you make, and the expenses you have, are not always comparable. An FSU friend may think you are Donald's Trump's son given your income, but in reality, until she lives in the West, there is difficulty in understanding why your income has its limits.

I approve Mendy on this one, +2

[Patagonie]

No leg pulling out of me...and I can't see where I'm doing anything wrong.  Just following me heart and seeing where it leads

As for everything else, let's see...We've already started making plans such as:
- We have picked a place for our wedding
- She has chosen her dress
- We know where we will honeymoon
- We have been looking at houses
- She knows what king of car she wants and we have already talked to a driving school
- She knows where she wants to volunteer/work and I have already talked to them and they are excited as well
- She wants a White Mazda-6 with an automatic transmission
- She is bringing her cat and we have discussed what type of puppy to get
- She is VERY familiar with my work
- We have discussed insurance/savings/retirement issues
- We practice interview questions together and try to stump each other

You are 48 ?
That is what people do when they are 20.
A lot of men believe that is romantic, they speak about honesty.

But excuse me that is very immature
All of this is surrealist, it says a lot about you, but more dramatically, a lot about her.
And that is a RED FLAG.

So you know i just told now your story to my wife and she answered :

Is he seek ? They are many crazy people over the world. Perhaps he is feeble.
(Ukrainian answer coming from a very well educated person belonging to the medical corp)


You should seriously consider to see a shrink and reconsider your emotional problems. 

[AC]

You should seriously consider to see a shrink and reconsider your emotional problems.

 

[cc3]

I have learned to be careful about discussing money amongst our FSU friends and relatives. So much of Western life in lived on a different financial plane than most FSU folk can imagine. Even now, my wife carefully steers/controls/guides conversations when a relative or friend pops the "how much do you make?" question. By the way, in FSU culture, that question is not out of bounds. We'd be appalled in the West, but this something often freely discussed in this part of the world.

The problem is bridging the gap. If you live full time in the West, the way you live and handle finances just isn't a mirror of the Eastern world. You might be comfortable, or even on a tight budget, but the amount you make, and the expenses you have, are not always comparable. An FSU friend may think you are Donald's Trump's son given your income, but in reality, until she lives in the West, there is difficulty in understanding why your income has its limits.

Extremely realistic and succinct appraisal of the different dimensions of western economic life versus FSU economic life. I have decided to reside in the FSU in the near term future, but should my fiancee desire to move to the US, after visiting it, I would be hard pressed to refuse her. I know that she might be immediately dazzled by the US environment, but I believe, in the final analysis, neither she nor I would be happier living in the US than in Lviv.

[KenInUtah]

As I knew I would receive venomous spew, the comment above has been handled.  No need for condescending insults anywhere here as far as I am concerned

[Shadow]

Ken I understand you are going to do this your own way, yet you should try to keep things under control a bit.
While you may (or may not) be serious in all your ideas that you exchange with her, there is a good chance that she sees you as nothing more but a fantasy. What you discuss may seem serious, but until you actually show up on her doorstep she might have a feeling that all of this is just unreal.
Once you do show up, it will turn her mind upside down as now all the fantasy might turn in to reality, and that is when she has to decide if she really likes you enough to go through with it. The meeting will seal or break the deal, and you should be prepared to accept both.