Ukraine Can Win

[lordtiberius]

Ukraine defends NATO.

[JayH]

For the sanctions to work they need to be savage in attacking Russian money anywhere & everywhere-- and restricting the movement of all Russian passport holders (or former) everywhere.
Create real difficulties for all Russians and force them to face the result of Putins actions.As it is--it is all to easy to deny knowledge or understanding by Russians-- drive the message into Russian consciousness would be a starting point-- so inconveniencing all is a start.
hand in hand with much more severe sanctions-- give Ukraine the military help desperately needed-- and do it now.
Forget how Putin distorts the story to Russians--let him explain away the deaths of 1000's of Russian military and the loss of equipment in Ukraine-at some point the reality will be seen in Russia.
US senators urge Kerry to tighten sanctions on Russia

WASHINGTON (AP) — A bipartisan group of senators Friday called on Secretary of State John Kerry to tighten economic sanctions on Russia and provide defensive weapons to Ukraine after Russian-backed rebels breached this month's cease- fire agreement and seized the Ukrainian town of Debaltseve.

The senators, including No. 2 Senate Democrat Dick Durbin and Armed Services Committee Republican Chairman John McCain, told Kerry in a letter that "it is time to provide defensive weapons to Ukraine and to consider imposing additional sanctions and penalties that will increase the cost of Putin's actions."

The senators see the cease-fire as failing, though France and Germany, which brokered the accord, hope to salvage it.

The war in eastern Ukraine has killed more than 5,600 people and forced over a million to flee their homes since fighting began in April, a month after Russia annexed the mostly Russian-speaking Crimean Peninsula. Putin denies arming the rebels.

"Putin's duplicity regarding these agreements has been matched only by his delusional denials of Russian involvement in eastern Ukraine," the senators wrote.

"We can only conclude that in the absence of greater Western support for Ukrainian forces, a Russian-imposed military outcome will continue to unfold in Ukraine," they said.

The Senate letter was signed by six Republicans and four Democrats

http://news.yahoo.com/us-senators-urge-kerry-tighten-sanctions-russia-204645378.html;_ylt=AwrBJSCknudUlCoAgijQtDMD

[JayH]

Ukraine defends NATO.

Russia's war moves to Mariupol, while West just keeps ignoring reality

Meanwhile the Russians – and it is the regular Russian forces, not the toothless, yokel, poorly-trained thugs that form the “separatist” pro-Moscow fighters that are invading Ukraine - are continuing their advance.

And with sickening hypocrisy Merkel maintains that although there have been serious breaches of the cease-fire it's not yet “dead." Both she and Hollande assiduously avoid saying who has breached the cease-fire as if apportioning blame equally in advance of abandoning Ukraine.

"We tried our best," they will plead.

After a short interval they will resume business with Moscow as usual. Perhaps Merkel will replace her predecessor German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder on Gazprom's board of directors. Will Hollande sail in on the Mistral aircraft carriers France delivers to Russia or only fly in for their official launch and the crazy Russian partying?

The despicable duo ignore the overwhelming evidence from their own intelligence agencies, that of the United States & NATO (aren't the Germans still part of NATO? The French, we know, are only when it suits them) that Putin has been behind every step of the Ukrainian invasion and conflict and that his soldiers took Debaltseve and are now heading to other destinations in Ukraine.

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/askold-krushelnycky-russias-war-moves-to-mariupol-while-west-just-keeps-ignoring-reality-381338.html

[JayH]

Everyday we are seeing more articles that are getting and at the crux of the Ukraine crisis--how long can it be before the political leaders finally get the message that urgent action-not talking--is needed?


Britain and Europe ‘Sleepwalked’ Into the Ukraine Crisis, Report Says

“A loss of collective analytical capacity has weakened member states’ ability to read the political shifts in Russia and to offer an authoritative response,” it said.

The report concluded that the European Union had failed to appreciate “the exceptional nature” of Ukraine and its relationship to a more aggressive Russia in Mr. Putin’s latest term as president.

Britain failed to live up to its obligations in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which it signed with Russia, the United States and Ukraine, guaranteeing Ukraine’s territorial integrity and offering security “assurances” in return for Kiev’s renouncing its extensive nuclear arsenal, the report said.

“The U.K. had a particular responsibility towards the country, and it has not been as active or as visible as it could have been,” it said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/21/world/europe/britain-europe-ukraine-house-of-lords-report.html?action=click&contentCollection=Europe&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article

[AkMike]

To a lesser degree France and China are also derelict in this with other agreements also. 

[fathertime]

Russia's war moves to Mariupol, while West just keeps ignoring reality

It should be very obvious that the Western nations know the reality, and are choosing to deal with the situation differently then what many here would like to see.  If they were ignoring it, they wouldn't talk about it, or do anything at all.   


Fathertime!   

[mendeleyev]

Wrong again. If they were choosing to ignore, there would be no sanctions, and no meetings in places like Minsk.

Most world leaders today are cowards, and frankly that is human nature. We only confront the schoolyard bully when we learn that he isn't really interested in dialogue and compromise.

Then, because we have waited too long, we fight world wars.

[Steamer]

Russia: Moscow And Washington May Cooperate On Anti-Terrorism

Situation Reports  FEBRUARY 20, 2015 | 08:17 GMT

Russia and the United States may cooperate and exchange intelligence in the campaign against the Islamic State, director of Russia’s Federal Security Services Alexander Bortnikov said, Sputnik News reported Feb. 20. Bortnikov is in Washington to attend a summit on anti-terrorism. Bortnikov, who is on the European Union sanctions list, said his visit to the United States is a political signal.


An interesting item from Straford. It seems that even though Bortnikov is on the sanctions list and not allowed to enter the US; this somehow got papered over so he could attend this summit. It's nice to see the US and Russia cooperate on things.

Strange that this isn't getting much press in the western media.

[BillyB]

Russia: Moscow And Washington May Cooperate On Anti-Terrorism

Russia and the United States may cooperate and exchange intelligence in the campaign against the Islamic State,

America is also teaming up with Russia to get Iran to stop their nuke program. Recently Russia just signed a $3.5 billion arms deal with Iran.


Obama seems to think his reset button still works and he can play pals with Putin by teaming up to fight a common enemy. While Obama is publically making Russia look good by showing they are team players against global terrorism, Putin is trying turn radical Muslim anger on America. I wouldn't doubt Russia will supply them the arms they need.


Putin to Obama "Let's share intelligence on this issue so I can tell radicals what your plans are.

[lordtiberius]

Russia: Moscow And Washington May Cooperate On Anti-Terrorism

Situation Reports  FEBRUARY 20, 2015 | 08:17 GMT

Russia and the United States may cooperate and exchange intelligence in the campaign against the Islamic State, director of Russia’s Federal Security Services Alexander Bortnikov said, Sputnik News reported Feb. 20. Bortnikov is in Washington to attend a summit on anti-terrorism. Bortnikov, who is on the European Union sanctions list, said his visit to the United States is a political signal.


An interesting item from Straford. It seems that even though Bortnikov is on the sanctions list and not allowed to enter the US; this somehow got papered over so he could attend this summit. It's nice to see the US and Russia cooperate on things.

Strange that this isn't getting much press in the western media.

Lazy

[fathertime]

Wrong again. If they were choosing to ignore, there would be no sanctions, and no meetings in places like Minsk.

I agree with this, I think I said the same.

Most world leaders today are cowards, and frankly that is human nature. We only confront the schoolyard bully when we learn that he isn't really interested in dialogue and compromise.

Then, because we have waited too long, we fight world wars.

I altogether disagree with the logic and comparisons here.  The schoolyard bully doesn't apply here.  The potential consequences are way to great to go headstrong into a conflict because somebody is angry.   I think the western leaders are courageous and sensible enough to allow themselves to be put into a position where they appear cowardly, when they aren't.  It does take some courage to allow yourself to be criticized for being a coward, when you are actually doing the most sensible thing under the circumstances.   This particular crisis had 'world/nuclear war' written all over it from day one...we can either fight it, or avoid it....I am glad our representatives are choosing to avoid it....there may very well be no part 2 to this when there is a final outcome in Ukraine.  Consequences/sanctions will likely be long lasting and other nations will be better prepared...the world will move on. 


Fathertime!   

[size=78%]  [/size]

[mendeleyev]

The schoolyard bully doesn't apply here.

Really?

Mind enlightening us?

[mendeleyev]

No this did not have nuclear war. Putin understands the principle of MAD, trust me.

It has liars and thieves, that is all.

The West lied about protecting borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up nukes. Bill Clinton should rot in hell if the BM has no teeth.

Meanwhile, Russia understands appeasement freaks who pretend to be intelligent. As long as your boy in the WH is a wimp, Putin will do as he pleases.

[fathertime]

Really?

Mind enlightening us?

Us? You and your tick?

No this did not have nuclear war. Putin understands the principle of MAD, trust me.

It has liars and thieves, that is all.

The West lied about protecting borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up nukes. Bill Clinton should rot in hell if the BM has no teeth.

Meanwhile, Russia understands appeasement freaks who pretend to be intelligent. As long as your boy in the WH is a wimp, Putin will do as he pleases.

I don't agree with what you continue to call appeasement.  The Western nations have imposed consequences, perhaps not to your satisfaction, but that is not a requirement.   Russia will likely win out in this particular battle, as I suspect that has already been determined by Western representatives.  Perhaps the goal is to minimize losses, while imposing non-military consequences.   That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, many other writers closer to the situation, and likely for the other 200 or so countries of the world, who don't need to suffer from the aftermath of a damaging war involving the strongest military's of the planet.     
Fathertime!   

[mendeleyev]

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me

Ah, so you are qualified to just what is reasonable for the Ukrainian people?

many other writers closer to the situation

You do not know of, nor have you read, any other writers closer to the situation than myself. Sorry.

[mendeleyev]

Neville, an automotive manufacturer in Canada, in joint production with KRAZ in Ukraine, is developing these vehicles which can safely drive over mines.



Do you believe that the West has the authority to condemn Ukrainians to life as subjects to Putin, or should friendly nations help her defend her borders?

[fathertime]

Ah, so you are qualified to just what is reasonable for the Ukrainian people?

The Ukrainian people get to decide what is reasonable for them...but YOU don't get to decide/insist on what help you may or may not receive from Western nations.  Given the actions/inactions of Western representatives, it appears to signal that military assistance is low on the list of priorities, and I continue to hold that is the right move for them to be making.  Most of us don't want to be dragged into this battle which Russia will probably escalate if need be. 

You do not know of, nor have you read, any other writers closer to the situation than myself. Sorry.

No need to apologize. 
Perhaps you feel you are the most important person writing about this crisis, but that is not a fact.  The representatives with more information then any of us have made decisions to take this very slow, and I continue to believe it is the better route for them to go. 

Do you believe that the West has the authority to condemn Ukrainians to life as subjects to Putin, or should friendly nations help her defend her borders?

False dichotomy, but regardless it is up to Ukraine mostly...we (the West) have imposed our consequences thus far. 







Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

What a mental midget

Russia is reinforcing Novavozsk for an attack on Mariupol.  It sent a tank company - 20 tanks and artillery.  Can we say Minsk 2.0 is dead?

[fathertime]

What a mental midget

Russia is reinforcing Novavozsk for an attack on Mariupol.  It sent a tank company - 20 tanks and artillery.  Can we say Minsk 2.0 is dead?

Thus far most all the other 'mental midgets' in charge are advocating doing nothing much militarily.   How does it feel to be 'mentally towering' yet completely out of step with reality?   


Fathertime! 

[Belvis]

Do you believe that the West has the authority to condemn Ukrainians to life as subjects to Putin, or should friendly nations help her defend her borders?

Why ask questions when the answer is known already? West helps Ukraine to suppress Donbass, though on limited scale. The US military delivered three lightweight, counter-mortar radar  (LCMR ) systems to Ukrainian armed forces on November 20. The radar systems see incoming mortar fire and quickly calculate the point of origin of a mortar round fired by the enemy, and allows friendly forces to react appropriately.



Judging by video report on February 19  rebels received one of those LCMR systems collecting trophies after Ukrainian troops withdrew from Debaltsevo. According to rebel information (no confirmation from Ukrainian side) soon after the transfer one of the stations was damaged during transportation, and then another station was damaged by artillery fire at the first attempt of its combat use by the Ukrainians.

[lordtiberius]

Belvis, how do you define victory for Russia in Ukraine?

[Steamer]

Lazy

Nave

[lordtiberius]

Nave

[BillyB]

Russia is reinforcing Novavozsk for an attack on Mariupol.  It sent a tank company - 20 tanks and artillery.  Can we say Minsk 2.0 is dead?

Nobody present at the Minsk summit wants Minsk 2 dead even as Putin continues to send weapons into Ukraine. Hollande and Merkel's reputation is at stake. Putin wants Ukraine's Constitution changed. Poroshenko needs the peace agreement to work just to delay Putin's from gaining more territory. 3 weeks left for Ukraine to rewrite it's Constitution. Serious violence will happen again but you have to be patient.

The radar systems see incoming mortar fire and quickly calculate the point of origin of a mortar round fired by the enemy, and allows friendly forces to react appropriately.

Considered non lethal aid and is better than blankets and MREs. Let's say that radar system documents incoming fire at coordinates inside Russia. Would you accept Putin was lying to you and your fellow citizens?


Getting back on topic "Ukraine can Win", Putin has a solution. He's allowed Yanukovych to speak again and Yanukovych gives God, not Putin, credit for allowing him to live and it's a sign he's needed for something. He said he will return to Ukraine and do everything he can to make life better for people there.


Will Ukrainians welcome back Yanukovych with open arms or will Putin shove Yanukovych down their throats?

[lordtiberius]

Nobody present at the Minsk summit wants Minsk 2 dead even as Putin continues to send weapons into Ukraine. Hollande and Merkel's reputation is at stake. Putin wants Ukraine's Constitution changed. Poroshenko needs the peace agreement to work just to delay Putin's from gaining more territory. 3 weeks left for Ukraine to rewrite it's Constitution.

The Ukrainian people don't like the Minsk peace accords.  The facts on the ground say its a failure.  Merkel's credibility is gone.  Hollande never had any.  And no one believes Putin not even Lukashenko.  It doesn't matter how powerful or rich you are when you make an enemy out of the truth.  You will always be a loser.

Serious violence will happen again but you have to be patient.

because the everyday violence under this phony truce from September is not serious?