Russian General in Debaltseve?

[Изумруд]

So For all those who continue to believe there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine: is this General Lentsov?  He's pretty well disguised in 'separatist' uniform and camouflaged ushanka.    But it looks remarkably like his photo!  the interview with him starts at 10 minutes.

[mendeleyev]

There have been reports, both from Russian and from Ukrainian sources, that he was also leading the final charge against the Donetsk airport. One can only imagine that he is lost, or perhaps he is on holiday....and that he carries some pretty modern weapons in his entourage when on vacation. 

[Изумруд]

There have been reports, both from Russian and from Ukrainian sources, that he was also leading the final charge against the Donetsk airport. One can only imagine that he is lost, or perhaps he is on holiday....and that he carries some pretty modern weapons in his entourage when on vacation. 

They really have to start issuing them with better maps.   

[Boethius]

Of course there are Russian troops in the occupied territories of Ukraine.  A bunch of miners couldn't operate the sophisticated weaponry unleashed not only on Ukrainian soldiers, but also on Ukrainain civilians.

In Poroshenko's place, I would cede Debaltseve, and pour a lot of money into rebuilding the region once peace is achieved.  However, I would give newcomers to the region first crack at new apartments, and create state jobs there, so that the region is flooded with a pro Ukrainian population that would overtake the so called "rebels".
 

[mendeleyev]

The increase in the number of Russian T72B3 tanks found in the battle zones, a new version not available to Ukrainian troops, likely are connected to his presence.

[mendeleyev]

Of course there are Russian troops in the occupied territories of Ukraine.  A bunch of miners couldn't operate the sophisticated weaponry unleashed not only on Ukrainian soldiers, but also on Ukrainain civilians.

In Poroshenko's place, I would cede Debaltseve, and pour a lot of money into rebuilding the region once peace is achieved.  However, I would give newcomers to the region first crack at new apartments, and create state jobs there, so that the region is flooded with a pro Ukrainian population that would overtake the so called "rebels".

Exactly what Putin did after pounding Chechnya into submission.

Chechnya is somewhat different in that Putin was able to place his own puppet in place, but even still the sheer number of restive Muslims there leads me to think that someday, when Russia least expects it, that region will again explode. It is funny how Putin loves to talk about the Crimea referendum, but ignores not one, but two independence referendums that didn't go his way in Chechnya.

[Boethius]

From the British Embassy in Ukraine -

http://twitter.com/UKinUkraine/status/567995706549653504
 
It is time to ban Russia from SWIFT.

[Boethius]

"We've gotten used to living in an upside-down world with respect to Ukraine. Russia speaks of peace, and then fuels conflict. Russia signs agreements, and then does everything within its power to undermine them. Russia champions the sovereignty of nations, and then acts as if a neighbor's borders do not exist. Yet even for those of us growing accustomed to living in an upside-down world, the idea that Russia - which manufactured and continues to escalate the violence in Ukraine - has tabled a resolution today calling for the conflict's peaceful solution, is ironic, to say the least. Bitterly ironic, given that this Council has dedicated some thirty meetings to calling on Russia to stop escalating the very same conflict, and given the human consequences that are growing daily.
 
 "We are for peace in Ukraine. We are for Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and unity. We are for ending the violence in eastern Ukraine that has taken more than 5,600 lives since last April, and displaced already approximately one million people," 

-Samantha Power, in a UN speech yesterday on the situation in Ukraine.

[Изумруд]

From the British Embassy in Ukraine -

http://twitter.com/UKinUkraine/status/567995706549653504
 
It is time to ban Russia from SWIFT.

It drives me nuts when they continue with that line: "we're deeply concerened........."  I'm sure Ukrainians are sick and tired of it too; however, the fact that the West is now directly and openly speaking of Russian involvement is a good thing.  It's getting to the stage, where if the West keeps procrastinating, they're going to appear even more disjointed and indecisive than they do right now; this of course, won't go unoticed.

SWIFT: that is a huge step and would affect me personally, but if things continue to get worse, well................

[Boethius]

Re SWIFT - I think this would hit the elites, and that is why I advocate it.  That is where the behaviour will possibly change, when the elites can't access their money, or only with great difficulty.  Of course, those also banned from travel will have additional problems.

[jone]

Bo,

What other actions, if any, would you advocate at this juncture - or if Russia pushes for Mariupol?

[Boethius]

I would advocate ever more isolation from the West, first, cutting banking ties, then, trade ties.  The elites don't want to spend their time in Russia, or China.  The problem is ensuring those sanctions are not circumvented.

[Изумруд]

Re SWIFT - I think this would hit the elites, and that is why I advocate it.  That is where the behaviour will possibly change, when the elites can't access their money, or only with great difficulty.  Of course, those also banned from travel will have additional problems.

I'm not sure the West actually has the stomach to instigate this, even though it would be a devestating blow.  The lack of any decisive  action so far, would appear to give some credence to this article:

Timothy Ash: Does West want Ukraine to surrender to Moscow?
Western government have proven incapable, or unwilling, to respond to Russia's drive to re-assert its influence in the "near abroad" leaving the Ukrainians pretty much on their own - there has been much cheap talk, but scant hard action. The sense is that many Western governments would prefer Ukraine to sue for peace now - any peace, on any terms, and including the further surrendering of its sovereignty to Moscow. Few major Western countries want to risk a more serious fissure with Moscow over Ukraine - shades of Budapest '56 or even Prague '68 spring to mind for many.

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/timothy-ash-does-west-want-ukraine-to-surrender-to-moscow-381024.html

[Larry1]

It's time to arm and train Ukrainian forces, although I doubt even that will stop Putin from taking Ukrainian territory all the way to Moldova if he wants it.

I suspect that wealthy Russians won't be able to do much of anything to Putin. He controls the media, the gunmen, the judiciary, and the bureaucracy. His control of the media has enabled him to form public opinion, thus ensuring stratospheric favorability ratings.

There will continue to be a few independent journalists and mothers who want to know why their sons in the army were killed.  But the former will be beaten by nationalist thugs (or security forces) and the latter will be hushed up.

[ML]

Does anyone know why Ukraine hasn't thrown all the military might they can muster up into the fight to stop the land bridge ?

Surely the entire Ukrainian military force could easily win that battle; although I realize this might be a short lived victory as Russia poured more men and equipment in.

But, when Russia brought in a truly overwhelming force . . . no one in the world would then believe that Russia was not invading Ukraine.

Would not the rest of world do something then ?

[lordtiberius]

Billy B, is the revelation of a Russian general holidaying in a war zone a big victory for Putin?

[BillyB]

Billy B, is the revelation of a Russian general holidaying in a war zone a big victory for Putin?

No but the current retreat of Ukrainian soldiers is. The general may have been sent there to right the wrongs to get the job done. Anybody wonder why the ceasefire was supposed to start a few days after Minsk 2? I didn't understand it till now. Putin was trying to buy more time to take Debaltseve since his troops were in position to do so. Putin sent in heavy weapons during the talks to help out with the offensive. Unfortunately for Putin, he didn't take Debaltseve before the ceasefire started so he is violating it temporarily till the job gets done. Strangely enough, Putin does want everybody to believe he will honor Minsk 2. Now that Debaltseve is in his hands, I think Putin is going to take a break, plan, give the Ukrainian government a month to change their Constitution and make the West believe they are making progress so it would divert their attention elsewhere. If Minsk 2 is successful which Putin hopes on some points, the West will have basically legalized everything Putin has done and handed Ukrainian land to Russia. After that, Putin can resume the regularly scheduled violent program in search of more regions.

It's time to arm and train Ukrainian forces.

I was talking to an Iraqi/Kurdish friend of mine today. He's upset Obama pulled out of Iraq before making sure it's stabilized. He figures 100-150 innocent Iraqi people are dying everyday to ISIS. I told him the Middle East is more important to America than Ukraine and asked him if Obama is giving them weapons. He said "no" but the French and Germans are giving them small arms.


Funny the two nations who believe in diplomatic solutions and say war is not a solution is putting arms in the hands of Iraqis to save their nation but think it's not in Ukrainian's best interest. I'm having serious doubts Obama will arm Ukraine since he's not arming Iraqis. His tough talk about supplying arms before Minsk 2 may be a bluff. Fortunately we have a lot of people in Congress that supports giving weapons to Ukraine and even passed a bill to do so. Hopefully Obama caves in to pressure.

[mendeleyev]

No but the current retreat of Ukrainian soldiers is. The general may have been sent there to right the wrongs to get the job done. Anybody wonder why the ceasefire was supposed to start a few days after Minsk 2? I didn't understand it till now. Putin was trying to buy more time to take Debaltseve since his troops were in position to do so. Putin sent in heavy weapons during the talks to help out with the offensive. Unfortunately for Putin, he didn't take Debaltseve before the ceasefire started so he is violating it temporarily till the job gets done. Strangely enough, Putin does want everybody to believe he will honor Minsk 2. Now that Debaltseve is in his hands, I think Putin is going to take a break, plan, give the Ukrainian government a month to change their Constitution and make the West believe they are making progress so it would divert their attention elsewhere. If Minsk 2 is successful which Putin hopes on some points, the West will have basically legalized everything Putin has done and handed Ukrainian land to Russia. After that, Putin can resume the regularly scheduled violent program in search of more regions.

Exactly.

 

I'm having serious doubts Obama will arm Ukraine since he's not arming Iraqis. His tough talk about supplying arms before Minsk 2 may be a bluff. Fortunately we have a lot of people in Congress that supports giving weapons to Ukraine and even passed a bill to do so. Hopefully Obama caves in to pressure.

Exactly, again.

[lordtiberius]

No

How much money/lives lost/political support does that cost Putin to loose the goodwill of the World Community?  In 2012, 2% of Americans including this one considered Putin's Russia an enemy.  Now he is # 1.  Another big victory for Forbes' most powerful man?

I think Putin is going to take a break

No.  He is going to continue to kill Ukrainians until Ukraine is eradicated.

I was talking to an Iraqi/Kurdish friend of mine today. He's upset Obama pulled out of Iraq before making sure it's stabilized. He figures 100-150 innocent Iraqi people are dying everyday to ISIS. I  . . .  asked him if Obama is giving them weapons. He said "no" but the French and Germans are giving them small arms.


Funny the two nations who believe in diplomatic solutions and say war is not a solution is putting arms in the hands of Iraqis to save their nation but think it's not in Ukrainian's best interest. I'm having serious doubts Obama will arm Ukraine since he's not arming Iraqis. His tough talk about supplying arms before Minsk 2 may be a bluff. Fortunately we have a lot of people in Congress that supports giving weapons to Ukraine and even passed a bill to do so. Hopefully Obama caves in to pressure.

Sad but true . . .

[Belvis]

Billy B, is the revelation of a Russian general holidaying in a war zone a big victory for Putin?

General Lentsov was always there as a mediator force. He visited rebels and Ukrainian army both, kind of shuttle. There are a team of  Russian officers in Ukrainian army as observer mission for cease-fires.

Does anyone know why Ukraine hasn't thrown all the military might they can muster up into the fight to stop the land bridge ?

Ukraine has thrown all  the military might  they can master. However this might is limited as not many Ukrainians want to participate in civil war.  Of course, propaganda figthers want to allure  more soldiers but people in field (locals) know situation there much better than readers in US

[Anotherkiwi]

General Lentsov was always there as a mediator force. He visited rebels and Ukrainian army both, kind of shuttle. There are a team of  Russian officers in Ukrainian army as observer mission for cease-fires.

Interesting point - I hadn't heard that one before.

However this might is limited as not many Ukrainians want to participate in civil war.

What "civil war," Belvis?  A "civil war" is restricted to opposing forces within one country - it does NOT involve thousands of troops pouring over the border from a neighbouring state.

[Belvis]

Interesting point - I hadn't heard that one before.

You have access to selected filtered info. Here is general Lentsov with Ukrainian officer:

What "civil war," Belvis?  A "civil war" is restricted to opposing forces within one country - it does NOT involve thousands of troops pouring over the border from a neighbouring state.

What you said is the intervention in civil war which has the place from Russia. Up to now I did not see the evidences of "thousands of troops pouring over the border" except that I hear they exist. When somebody put the evidences later it turns out to be fakes. Right now there are no officially proved eveidences that western officials could use to accuse Russia.

What I see is the weaponry Russia sent to rebels. Also I think a few Russian battalions were involved in combat mission in Donbass last summer at Ilovaisk. For sure there are Russian military experts in rebel force.

[BillyB]

General Lentsov was always there as a mediator force. He visited rebels and Ukrainian army both, kind of shuttle. There are a team of  Russian officers in Ukrainian army as observer mission for cease-fires.

The general should be fired for doing a poor job then. He failed to get the rebels to honor the ceasefire in Debaltseve. He failed to get the rebels to honor the ceasefire in Minsk 1. I still say the general was in Debaltseve to tell the rebels the supreme leader wasn't happy with the speed they're moving and to right the wrong. Don't believe me? Show me one article where Putin criticizes the rebels in Debaltseve for violating the ceasefire. The rebels are doing exactly what the general and Putin asks of them otherwise Putin will take back and deny them those high tech and heavy armored toys they're using.

You have access to selected filtered info. Here is general Lentsov with Ukrainian officer:

I seen photos and videos of Putin and Poroshenko shaking hands and sitting next to each other. Does it mean they're on friendly terms? I can Google and find photos of the general standing next to Ukrainian officers. Happens  when ceasefires are agreed to but the few peaceful photos aren't a good representation of what's happening when the bullets are flying elsewhere. The photos are a good propaganda tool though.

I did not see the evidences of "thousands of troops pouring over the border" except that I hear they exist. When somebody put the evidences later it turns out to be fakes. Right now there are no officially proved eveidences that western officials could use to accuse Russia.

Did you see evidence of America behind Maidan or is Putin good on his word? If Putin is good on his word then take this into account: Putin admitted that the thousands of unidentified little green men in Crimea was his after he took Crimea. Don't you think the same thing is happening in east Ukraine? Putin admitted many of the troops in east Ukraine was Russian but he denies sending them there. He says those troops are following their hearts. Do you think Putin will court marshal those troops for leaving their posts back in Russia without permission?


Let's say you learn Putin did send those troops into Ukraine, would that change your mind about Putin when discovering he's a liar? I doubt it. You and most Russians believe Ukraine is Russia's business.


Russia is inching closer to claiming some land in Georgia too.


No harm in having a little snack before finishing the main course

[southernX]

 

billy b ...No but the current retreat of Ukrainian soldiers is. The general may have been sent there to right the wrongs to get the job done. Anybody wonder why the ceasefire was supposed to start a few days after Minsk 2? I didn't understand it till now. Putin was trying to buy more time to take Debaltseve since his troops were in position to do so. Putin sent in heavy weapons during the talks to help out with the offensive. Unfortunately for Putin, he didn't take Debaltseve before the ceasefire started so he is violating it temporarily till the job gets done. Strangely enough, Putin does want everybody to believe he will honor Minsk 2. Now that Debaltseve is in his hands, I think Putin is going to take a break, plan, give the Ukrainian government a month to change their Constitution and make the West believe they are making progress so it would divert their attention elsewhere. If Minsk 2 is successful which Putin hopes on some points, the West will have basically legalized everything Putin has done and handed Ukrainian land to Russia. After that, Putin can resume the regularly scheduled violent program in search of more regions.

yep nailed it billy ,

putin knows a full scale invasion would draw a  response, his methods to date of taking a small piece, then wait , use proxys , diplomacy , denial , meetings etc , allow the facts on the ground to psychologically be accepted by western leaders , then each new accomplishment  for his proxys again becomes the new focus for the west etc, accepting and leaving behind his prior wins as a done deal

he is artfully exploiting the weakness of the wests leaders to make a coherent decision and stick to it over ukraine

SX

[BillyB]

Belvis, take a look in the link below. One of the unidentified little green men in the photos is of Russian General Lentsov in Debaltseve. Soldiers are supposed to wear their insignia, rank, and identification tags, not a rebel uniform. I can believe you that he plays the role of a mediator some times but I don't believe that's his job all the time. Putin is his boss and he does what his boss tells him.


http://asian-defence-news.blogspot.com/2015/02/russian-lt-general-alexander-lentsov-in.html