OK here's my idea, tell me what you think

[DKMM]

I'm obviously a newbie around here.  I have what seems to me a great plan, but having never done this I don't know how great it is.  So I have some questions for the board.

In short, I am writing 2 girls and plan to visit them both.  I think you guys might call it W2V2?  Here is the catch, one lives in St. Pete & one lives in Moscow.  I will go there with a friend (who is married so its moral support) and do both cities in 9 days total.  Is this a long enough time?  4 days with each basically.  I'm just trying to see how this whole thing goes.  Unlike some here, I'm not set on going the RW route.  I'm obviously very interested in trying though. . .

The other thing is one is, to be blunt, "better" than the other for me.  Should the fact that I'm more serious about one than the other play into which city to spend the 1st 4 days in?  What would you do?  I'm thinking of visiting the less serious one 1st so if it doesn't work out I'm "warmed up" for the other.  I hate saying it in those types of terms but I think y'all know what I mean.  They are both great from what I can tell so far. . .

Also, what is the minimum age you would consider safe?  As I am 28 and somewhat younger looking I actually get the most response from 18-23yr olds.  So its not age difference so much as their maturity that would concern me.  I know its generalizing but for instance no way would I consider any AW under 22.

Ok that's enough questions.  Here is some more info:  I've known them both since early April.  Average communication is an email or 2 a day, and one phone call every other day (with one girl).

Жду ваши ответы   

[Son of Clyde]

I think 9 days is very short. Why not a week with each?

[Turboguy]

I think your plan sounds just fine.  Sometimes the chemistry that is there in letters and phone calls is not there in person.   Sometimes if you get there and are spending a week with a gal and the chemistry is not there it is a very long week for both of you.  That is the voice of a lot of experience saying that.   If you hit it off, no matter how much time you have it won't be enough.  If you don't you can have a good friendship for the few days and move on.

There are a lot of different ways to do this thing.  It is not a "one size fits all" type thing.  If you are comfortable with that it sounds fine.  Perhaps in the future you may want to try something different. 

As far as the age difference, FSU women can sometimes be more mature than American gals.  Sometimes not.  On avererage they probably are.  I sorta like it when I hear so many guys say they don't want anyone under 24 or 28.  Gives me less competition with those 21-23 year olds.  (just joking)

[catzenmouse]

I agree with TG here. Maybe keep the option open to alter your time with one if the other doesn't work out. Say the first one is a dud after two days can you bump up your time with the other? If they both don't work out then you are still in some great places to tour with a lot of wonderful scenery. Some of the best is walking around...

Ken

[Michelangelo]

I'm obviously a newbie around here.  I have what seems to me a great plan, but having never done this I don't know how great it is.  So I have some questions for the board.

In short, I am writing 2 girls and plan to visit them both.  I think you guys might call it W2V2?  Here is the catch, one lives in St. Pete & one lives in Moscow.  I will go there with a friend (who is married so its moral support) and do both cities in 9 days total.  Is this a long enough time?  4 days with each basically.  I'm just trying to see how this whole thing goes.  Unlike some here, I'm not set on going the RW route.  I'm obviously very interested in trying though. . .

The other thing is one is, to be blunt, "better" than the other for me.  Should the fact that I'm more serious about one than the other play into which city to spend the 1st 4 days in?  What would you do?  I'm thinking of visiting the less serious one 1st so if it doesn't work out I'm "warmed up" for the other.  I hate saying it in those types of terms but I think y'all know what I mean.  They are both great from what I can tell so far. . .

Also, what is the minimum age you would consider safe?  As I am 28 and somewhat younger looking I actually get the most response from 18-23yr olds.  So its not age difference so much as their maturity that would concern me.  I know its generalizing but for instance no way would I consider any AW under 22.

Ok that's enough questions.  Here is some more info:  I've known them both since early April.  Average communication is an email or 2 a day, and one phone call every other day (with one girl).

??? ???? ??????   

Actually, I would visit the one you think has the most potential first.  And if it's great, I'd postpone the second meeting and spend all the time with the first girl.  Four days is not enough...

Then again, if you do not have chemistry with the first girl, move at once.

Here is one piece of Golden Advice--if the girl is not totally "into you," crazy about you, move on.  Don't hang around with a girl that kinda likes you...

I am concerned about your only having 2 girls to visit--both could bomb. So be prepared to visit a quality agency or get a good guide in case neither girl words out.

[Killer-B]

DKMM-

I used to be in the WOVO camp - but that's slowly changing after a few "wasted" trips....  Either way, since you're already leaning in favor of one gal - why not make it a WOVO WITH a "backup"?

Some here will advise that if you meet (focus) with more than one, your mind will be always thinking of "what about the other one?"...

There's an old Russian saying: "Better is the enemy of best"...  Pretty wise IMO.

I'm not opposed to you meeting 1 or 100 girls - for the more exposure and "time" you get with this gal (or girls) the better equipped you're gonna be to make an educated decision -

9 days is really a 1 stop trip (in a perfect world) - Moscow and St. P are definitely doable in 10 days - but it's tight - Will assume you're going during the summer? - If so, your head is gonna twist off its neck just walking the streets of St. P (as documented by Jack's and others photos posted here!) -

You are "young" - and wouldn't worry about the age stuff too much... 18 from Moscow is probably no different than 20 in NYC/Chicago/LA etc... but at 18 did you truly know what you wanted in life?  Not many do - regardless of country...

As someone said in your other post, as long as your not "monkey ugly" - odds are you're gonna do quite well there... Just make sure you have someone (friend, agency, lady, whatever) that can "help" you get around and not taken for a ride (literally LOL) - There *is* a huge difference between "city girls" and "small town gals" - as well as there's a difference between Russian and Ukrainian (or Moldova, Belarus, etc.) -

IMHO - If *I* were you, I'd keep the plans rolling as to visit the one that is of most interest to you... Keep gal #2 as a "backup" and just plan on having a great "vacation" and exploring a new and interesting country... Absorb and observe the culture and people - Take it all in, and see (at the gut level) if this endeavour is really for you? Might wanna keep in mind, that if you do some day marry a gal from Russia, plan on many, many return trips to see "family" -

Just my .02 cents - but you are in a very advantageous spot and have LOTS to see and experience mate - Enjoy!

Cheers -

Killer

[BC]

Go to have fun and to get your feet wet.. not to get married.

[Bruno]

As someone said in your other post, as long as your not "monkey ugly" - odds are you're gonna do quite well there...

And if you are "monkey ugly" like me, don't worry too much, it is always possible to find the right RW... Simply show your inner quality like mind, humour, kindness... don't drink to much and help your lady in daily "home" task...

Several of these women don't seek a Apollo, they can find a lot in Russia... They seek a husband and potential father for future or already existing children... Russia is big and women lack of quality husband... Everybody can find the right woman, simply keep your expectation at a normal level, mean a little more high that with local women !

[KenC]

DKMM,
I don't see anything wrong with your plan. This first trip is more of an introduction any way. You really won't "know" either of them until you spend some face to face time. Even after this trip, there will be much more to learn about which ever one you may lean toward. You also have to consider that niether of them may be the "right one" for you.

Which ever one yu choose to visit first, I would make sure that you follow through and meet the other though. It might be a waste of time on the surface, but seeing the second will help you put the first in perspective. On my first trip to Russia, I was mostly interested in meeting my now wife of 7 years, but I forces myself to meet others too. I never regreted it. It some how made me more secure in my ultimate choice.

The most important thing is to go! I think taking a buddy is a little odd and may impead your progress. Best of luck to you.
KenC

[DKMM]

Thanks all that was very informative.  No I'm not monkey ugly LOL, I actually get hit on in bars sometimes but I'm not Apollo either.

So bringing someone along is a bad thing?  I guess this trip was in my mind going to be about more than spending time with the girls.  I'm also a tourist and we both want to see the sights.  We also both speak some Russian so its not like I'm getting a "terp".  I cannot travel alone the 1st time, my mother would die of a heart attack.

I get this nagging feeling though that this trip really is going to be all about the girls, especially everytime we get to know each other more.  Plan B would be to bring a 3rd friend so the both of them can do their own thing if I get caught up in the moment.  And if the girls don't turn out to be what I had hoped, oh well I'll be a tourist with my friend(s) and what happens happens, I'll still have fun.

OK so next question.  Do I tell the girls beforehand that i'm hanging out with another girl while in the other city?  Or can I get away with not telling them, its not like they'd know??  For all they know I'm just playing tourist at the other big city for a few days before or after visiting them.  Bad idea?   

The lots and lots of return trips are fine with me as long as she's from a fun to visit city!  How many a year are you doing anyways?

[Jumper]

for tourism ,hanging out , and checking out the cities,  bring your buddy.

if your trip is really centered on meeting the girls ,,
and seeing if you want to pursue a relationship with one of them ,
i wouldnt want a wingman along,even on a first trip..

 

[snowtree]

for tourism ,hanging out , and checking out the cities,  bring your buddy.

if your trip is really centered on meeting the girls ,,
and seeing if you want to pursue a relationship with one of them ,
i wouldnt want a wingman along,even on a first trip..

This advice is good for over 30 years old, not for 23-28.
DKMM,
Bring your buddy! I think this is a more than brilliant idea.
Not everybody can bring a buddy: it's too expensive plus time is costly thing.
It is a normal for the young man or a girl to come with a friend in the beginning of dating. It's proper, it's all right, for young people. The conversation is more smoothly and understanding is better. You can see your girl from your side and make your decision.  And you always can let go your buddy, if you wish so.
 

[Muj]

DKMM,

I would visit the one I liked first.  Contacting other potential women if either one doesn't work in either city a good plan.  The face to face can be more informative than months of writing.  Also you said you're not set on marrying?  What have you told the women?  Are they just looking for a date or a husband?

[Markus]

DKMM,

During my first impression, I thought of two things:

1) I wish when I was 28 I knew about pursuing FSUW.

2) Your comments suggest you are only shopping and that you are not serious.

With your age, there's no problem with the little age difference. Even middle aged men (40s, 50s)  go for ladies under the age you that you have limited yourself to (22); But, I liked Turboguy's response in that he can go for the younger ones now, jokingly he stated. I think you are wise in going for 22 versus 20. The reason why is that the maturity in a 20 year old girl versus 22 can be significant. So, you're on the right track.  I have known an FSUW girl since she was 20, and still know her today, so, based upon only that experience am I stating my opinion. She lives in the FSU today and is now almost 23. Of course, I know many 20 year old girls here in the U.S., so perhaps I can add that I have additional young ladies to base my opinion upon. Now stating all of that, the 20 year olds sure look hot, but then again, at 45, I think the 22 years look even hotter. I need to clarify that in that I have a hot 32 year old.

I want to say that you are talking with ladies who want a husband, but, 18-22 FSUW is beyond my ability to even guess what they want. It's obvious from your post that you are only exploring and that may be why you are taking a friend with you. Most "men" I know about who are searching for a wife go alone. Are you afraid to go alone? I don't understand why you would want to take a friend with you unless you're really not serious and are only exploring and perhaps want a mini party. Or you may flat out be afraid. Of course, sometimes I am wrong so I asked my wife about what you are doing. Her opinion differs many times from my opinion about questions I ask her about what I read on this board.

My wife didn't see anything wrong with you taking a friend. I compared what you are doing to the first visit when I met my wife. I asked my wife how she would feel when we all three went to dinner or visited the sites? My wife suddenly changed her opinion. Is this guy going to venture out alone and make his own party or is he going to hang with you and the girl? I would first of all think that you haven't thought about what he's going to do. If you plan on bringing him with you to meet her then I think you should stay home. Or maybe you have plans to have a group meeting, which, in my opinion is a party. Heck, you can do that anywhere or in any country. The question is: Do you really want an FSUW? If you don't know, that's ok. But, don't waste the time of two ladies and take a friend unless you just want to explore and educate yourself. I hope the ladies know you are bringing a friend. Frankly, in this process I have never heard of a man bringing another man to meet a lady. You are the first.

You ask is 4 days enough? What you didn't ask is what 4 days is enough for? I think if you planned your trip alone you will find that 4 days is enough to do what you want to find out. I can tell you that, in my opinion only, that you will see some beauty in ladies that you won't see where you live. But, Moscow and St. Pet don't come close to representing the rest of Russia. I think it's the rest of Russia or FSU is where I would seek a lady.

Mark

P.S. I just read my wife what I wrote and told her how old you were. She emotionally asked, "He's only 28? Yes, he needs a friend to take with him. He is very young." Hey, those are my wife's words so take it from there.

[Turboguy]

I have made some trips with a friend along and I find it much more enjoyable.   I would not take a friend with me when I had a date but usually there is a fair amount of dead time and it gives you someone to share your thought processes with.   The times I have had a friend along it was always someone who was also searching for a gal so we could compare notes and kick around ideas and hang out when there was nothing going on. 

I was mostly joking about the younger ones.  I don't absolutely rule them out but have been targeting the 27 to 45 range lately although my next trip, if there is one will include a 23 year old and a 25 year old as well as a 45 year old and some in their 30's.   I may be done making scouting trips.  Not sure yet.

[Markus]

Turboguy,

I realize you were joking and I tried to continue your humor in my post. But, let's move to the "friend" thing. I would take a friend to "take a trip", although I've had more fun by myself in traveling to different countries. I've been to many countries by myself, but, I can say that visiting the FSU is not somewhere I would care to visit alone. That's where the trust in the lady comes into play and the backup plans are important, although my backup plan was only to go home. I put my trust in the lady, but, you can betcha I knew the flights scheduled to get out of there. But, I don't think he is serious in actually finding a wife because of his own admission of "...I'm not set on going the RW route."

I interpret what he said literally and think he only wants to satisfy his curiosity. Of course, after seeing the ladies, perhaps not only the ladies he is going to visit, but the scenery he will experience, he will want to go back alone. My main concern is not only about him but includes the ladies he is writing. If the ladies know he's bringing a friend then I stand corrected (actually I'm sitting). But, if he hasn't told these ladies he's bringing a friend, that's a different story. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Rookie taking a friend and checking things out. I would care to know if the ladies know his plans about bringing a friend.

Mark

[DKMM]

I should have been more clear, I said I'm not set on marrying a FSU woman.  Meaning I am open to marrying a girl from any country.  I definitely am looking to get married, you gotta be kidding me if you think I'd go through this just to date or play around.  I can get girls stateside if that was my goal.  So again, I am looking for the Mrs. DKMM here.  And these girls are absolutely the types of girl I could do that with.

Also, my "buddy" is very well prepared and expecting to me alone time if the situation calls for it.  

TOWW:  Actually I knew about it when I was 20 but it moved to the background during other things that happen to a guy at that age.  Now I'm 28 which might seem young to some here, which is understandable.  But I'm ready for marriage emotionally, fiscally and otherwise.  I'm not afraid to travel alone, I just thought it would be better to have someone there.  

I'm bringing a friend -or 2 as it is likely now- because they wanted to go.  I know that sounds weird but I told them about wanting to go there to meet some girls and I got talked into letting them tag along.  One is married so he's there to help me out so to speak and the other is single and actually starting to talk to one of the girl's friends.  This is getting a little off track here but it could add a bit of complexity to the situation if you know what I mean but its too late I already "introduced them."

Now I realize I should be sensitive to how the girls responded when they heard my plans.  As I said one thought it was great and wants to double date so to speak.  I think I will send the guys off on their own when I'm with the other girl though.  That actually answers my other question because it makes sense to me now to visit the "double date" girl last and leave open the option of staying a few days late (alone) if things progress.  A problem could be, if I really like the 1st girl I still have to meet the 2nd and then my friend is going after her friend. . . that's an interesting scenario. . .

I do appreciate your responses as I have nobody in your guys' position to bounce my ideas off of.  Thanks again.

DKMM

[Michelangelo]

Friends are fine...at first.  In fact, when you are on an agency date, the girl often has a terp with her.

But later you'll want some alone time, for sure 

[Markus]

DKMM,

I like your admission that literally manifests what men talk about on this board, especially for men just beginning. You stated that you are "looking to get married." Well, that statement is exactly what men reading this board want and for those of us who have found wives, we had the same desire when we began this process. I like and appreciate your clarification.

I hope that my previous comments and my comments now do not have the tone of trying to be argumentative. My hope is that my comments are thought provoking. I may not agree with your plans, but, because I do not agree does not mean that I am correct. I am only seeing your situation from a computer and responding with my opinion. But, I still have an interest in you taking a friend or two. You state that the subject of bringing a friend is "getting a little off track here..." but, you are wrong in that the subject you refer to is exactly the subject I am talking about.

You commented that " I can get girls stateside if that was my goal." I don't dispute that statement but do you take friends with you when meeting a girl stateside? There's something I'm missing here, because If I'm going to meet a lady, I don't want some dudes hanging around. So, I completely miss the correlation in that you are "looking to get married", have decided to write to ladies in the FSUW, who have swallowed their pride and listed themselves on a site so men who want a wife can learn if they are the "chosen one" or not, but you are taking dudes with you.  Please explain to me the correlation of finding a wife from the FSU and taking a friend or two. I will ask the same question again. Are you afraid to travel alone? Repeating myself, you are the first man seeking an FSU woman who wants dudes accompanying him. Dudes accompanying me is the last thing that I would want. Are you REALLY serious about meeting the ladies you have been writing to or are you so unsure of yourself that you need friends to give you "moral support?" What is your motivation in bringing dudes with you to meet FSUW that you have been corresponding with? Have these dudes been helping you write your letters? Why do you need dudes; That is my question. How can you justify going to meet a lady in the FSU who could possibly be your wife with a couple of dudes with you. There will be a time when you will need to be with her alone.

Mark

[DKMM]

TOWW:  No need to worry about the tone of your posts.  The more feedback the better and if it needs to be said it should be said rather than me worry about my feelings being hurt.

The issue with bringing a friend is that he is starting to talk to her friend now.  And that is changing what I originally posted because obviously he has to come if it progresses.  Apparently the one girl who posts online is really taking a bold step and her friends like the idea of possibly being hooked up.  Perhaps double dating doesn't sound serious enough but she said I need to meet her before we decide to consider things between us as serious or exclusive (and I totally agree).

The whole point of my post was if you think its a good idea or not.  I never really thought about it until later when I realized that I would need to spend more time alone.  I know you are just one man's opinion but it helps me think it out because obviously I'm a little concerned that it could ruin my chances with these fabulous ladies.  Yet, I see this more as a get to know them trip.  If things have any potential I'll be back in a month or two.  I'm able to go there often as I like but not before this fall (which is killing me right now). . .

And yes if these girls were in New York I'd definitely go on a trip with these guys there if the situation called for it.  Its not like I wouldn't be able to without them but it seems more fun to bring them along.  I guess you'd have to know them fully understand it.  But now I will make sure to allow some "alone time" and I'm glad you all brought it up because I hadn't previously planned for it.

I guess I'll have an interesting story to share with you on the trip report board come late September.