A Hit on Russia's Opposition

[BillyB]

(The Mendeleyev Journal)

After arrests in the murder case of Boris Nemtsov, prosecutors must now convince the Russian public that two Muslin men from the North Caucasus, Anzor Gubashev and Zaur Dadayev, found it necessary to gun down an opposition leader to president Vladimir Putin.

Got to figure out a touchy feely story that will bring anti and pro Putin citizens together to fight common foes and slow the protests down.

[AkMike]

5 Terrorists!

[Muzh]

[mendeleyev]

Three Chechens arrested for the murder of Boris Nemtsov, however all three now claim that they were tortured into signing confessions of guilt.

[AC]

Three Chechens arrested for the murder of Boris Nemtsov, however all three now claim that they were tortured into signing confessions of guilt.

There is absolutely no doubt of this.  Too bad we can't give Putin some sodium pentothal and torture him into a confession.  Maybe the Russian people could learn the locations of the Billions he has stolen from them. 

[AkMike]

Three Chechens arrested for the murder of Boris Nemtsov, however all three now claim that they were tortured into signing confessions of guilt.

Tortured by Russian in order to get a 'confession? 

 Oh My.. What's the world coming to? 

[JayH]

Boris Nemtsov and the Convenient Chechen Connection
Russian investigators have followed the trail of the opposition leader’s murder to an implausible motive and an unlikely suspect. And that’s OK with them.

MOSCOW — A little more than a week after opposition leader Boris Nemtsov was gunned down in central Moscow just feet away from the Kremlin, Russian state investigators claim to have found the culprit, and it’s not who anyone expected: lone-wolf Islamist radicals.

Nemtsov’s acquaintances, independent experts, and even one of Russia’s biggest newspapers have ridiculed this hypothesis, sensing that it has all the markings of a cover-up. While the exact origins remain murky — and the full story may never be discovered — the high-profile killing likely involved influential organizers from Russia’s troubled republic of Chechnya, not a devout fighter angry about insults to the Prophet Mohammed.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/12/boris-nemtsov-and-the-convenient-chechen-connection/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Flashpoints&utm_campaign=FLASH2015_FlashPoints_PROMO_GMU-RS3%2F12

[fathertime]

As I was browsing around the internet I found this story about 7 'suicides' of top officials in the former govt. of Ukraine, the pro russian ones I guess.   Upon finding this out and reading the story I find that hard to believe. 


One question is: Where are the western leaders calling for an  'international investigation'?  Or perhaps it is ok to kill, so long as it is the 'unapproved' of leaders. 


Here is the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-old-guard-plagued-mystery-deaths-113906039.html




Fathertime!   

[AkMike]

They're scared of prison life and the many that they've sent there during their tenure as oligarchs.

Bend over Boris, it's not your turn anymore. 

[lordtiberius]

As I was browsing around the internet I found this story about 7 'suicides' of top officials in the former govt. of Ukraine, the pro russian ones I guess.   Upon finding this out and reading the story I find that hard to believe. 


One question is: Where are the western leaders calling for an  'international investigation'?  Or perhaps it is ok to kill, so long as it is the 'unapproved' of leaders. 


Here is the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-old-guard-plagued-mystery-deaths-113906039.html




Fathertime!

Win win

[LiveFromUkraine]

I would be interested in some feedback on this article.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/murdered-putin-critic-knew-lot-193226761.html;_ylt=AwrBEiLktw1Vqx0AIjfQtDMD-


Apparently, Putin may have lost control over Kadyrov.  Thanks!

[lordtiberius]

LFU is right.  His post reveals an ignorance many of us on the forum have in interpreting this event.  He deserves the credit for first seeing this.

We don't understand how important Boris Nemtsov was or still is:



For his death is influencing events as we speak.

http://www.rferl.org/content/podcast-three-weeks-that-shook-the-kremlin/26912136.html

We also don't understand Kadyrov's role in Kremlin and with the Siloviki.  This podcast interpreting Nemtsov, Putin in absentia and Kadyrov.  Things are not what they seem.

Whatever I have said about LFU in the past, He deserves credit for bringing this information to our forum.   

[jone]

I read that article.  I believe it to be window dressing.  Many of the fighters assigned to Eastern Ukraine were directed there from Chechnya.  I think the alliance is ongoing and mutually beneficial.  It doesn't have a payout in either direction to have the Kremlin and the Chechnyan strongman at odds.

[lordtiberius]

Is the King dying?  Is the King already dead?

Professor Mark Galeotti of NYU asks that very question in the podcast I referenced.

Galeotti also cites Kadyrov as a man of very low impulse control.  See his instagrams:

http://instagram.com/kadyrov_95

Maybe the Russian Civil War is already going on and we don't even know it.

[mendeleyev]

LFU, thanks for posting that and for asking for comments.

Several articles in that vein have appeared recently, and that often makes one skeptical. However, I will comment on what I know, and what I think.

I know that there are those within the security organs who hate Kadyrov. If allowed, they'd take him out in a heartbeat. But, and now this is what I think, it has never been my understanding those feelings to be the result of an affinity for human rights. Most of the serious players in that culture of the government have absolutely no regard for who might be tortured, killed, etc. They yawn at such concepts. Ordinary people are expendable.

What I think is along two tracks:

- Kadyrov is a Muslim. He is hated, outside Chechnya, for that alone were one to poll the average citizen. To be sure, those asked would cloak their dislike and distrust for him in high sounding moralistic tones, but Russians to their core remember the days of the Islamic hordes, and they abhor any thought of allowing such a ruler in the Kremlin.

- Kadyrov has alienated many within the security organs by his past declarations that someday he might aspire to lead the nation, after Putin of course. He has unwisely tested the political winds with such comments. Those in the security services feel, just as the KGB used to believe, that it is they who have the responsibility to put leaders into positions. That includes the top spot, and Kadyrov does not quality as he is not a member of that club. Nor do they intend to ever allow him to be a member.

So, is the article correct in saying that some in the Security services do not agree with the free reign that he has been given by Putin? Yes.

Are there those who might carry out such an act to lay the blame at Kadyrov's feet? Possibly.

Could it have been possible for Chechen security officials to have ordered Nemtsov's murder without Kadyrov's green light? Not very likely.

Could it have been Kadyrov himself who ordered the hit, to weaken Putin's regime? Possibly, but how likely?

Maybe it was Putin, working through Kadyrov, who ordered the hit? Possibly.

Was it competing members of the opposition who carried out the hit? Not very likely at all, there is no serious power struggle for the top opposition slots

Was it a random shooting that just happened to hit Nemtsov? No. Too many details, from webcams that were off, to the street sweeper truck stopping at just the right moment to block any direct view of the killing. This was a well-planned and executed hit.

Perhaps this was a plot by the evil CIA, FEMA, FDIC, MSNBC, Bell South, AIG, Obama's relatives in the Muslim Brotherhood, the DNC, PGA, NBA, MLB, the NFL, and the Detroit Hot Wings to eliminate the opposition and pin the blame on Vlad? Sure, it makes perfect sense to take out a guy who might someday replace Putin were there to ever be a colour revolution.

In summary: the Chechen armed fighters are to be feared in certain settings. In Ukraine, were you to be captured by one of Putin/Kadyrov's units, they are known to take no prisoners in most cases, especially the wounded. Even Russian soldiers in Ukraine will tell you that Chechen units prefer to slit the throats of their captives. Those in security remember the Moscow theatre crisis, the St Petersburg train bombing, the bombing at Domodedovo, the Metro bombings, etc. They have concerns were the Chechens to bring their full time game to central Russia.

So, are those in certain corners of the Security services justified in their fears that maybe Putin has gone too far, and given Kadyrov to much independent power, making him more difficult to contain down the road? Very likely.

[lordtiberius]

Could Kadyrov secede Putin?

[mendeleyev]

I guess nothing is impossible. The fact that he is a Muslim, and a somewhat darker skinned complexion (albeit ever so slightly) from the Caucasus region, would make it very hard for him to be elected even if "anointed" by Russia's messiah.

Were such to happen, I would lay odds that violence accompanied his ascension.

[lordtiberius]

If Rooskimir would extend from the Sea of Kamchatka to the plains of France, they will need Kadyrov's minions to excite an Islamic spring in Europe, no?

[Anotherkiwi]

Could Kadyrov secede succeed Putin?

If Rooskimir would extend from the Sea of Kamchatka to the plains of France, they will need Kadyrov's minions to excite incite an Islamic spring in Europe, no?

LT, I thought English was your first language.  Please use the correct words so as not to confuse everyone.

[LiveFromUkraine]

LT, I thought English was your first language.  Please use the correct words so as not to confuse everyone.

How about you try and use common sense for once.  You seem to be the only one not understanding the context because of simple spelling mistakes.  You might want to work on that instead of insisting others change because you can't follow the conversation. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I appreciate the feedback on the article.


I do admit my ignorance on this topic, but I have always had good intuition.


I understand Nemtsov has been a sort of pain in Putin's side for quite some time.  I don't see how organizing against the actions in Ukraine would set off Putin to kill the man.  I would have thought this would have happened a long time ago if that Putin wanted him dead.

Especially when all eyes are on Putin as they currently are.

That is why the article was interesting to me.  Was there something else happening in the background to change Putin's mind about Nemtsov or did someone else step up to the plate in this situation?

[mendeleyev]

LFU:

Was there something else happening in the background to change Putin's mind about Nemtsov or did someone else step up to the plate in this situation?

That could possibly be the question to which we may never have an answer, much like who really ordered the execution of Anna Politkovskaya.

Could Putin feel invincible after the West knows of his troops in Ukraine, yet hesitates to confront his violation of the Budapest agreement? Possibly.

Could someone(s) in the Security services, or the Chechens, have done it to frame Putin? Possibly.

At least for now, the only thing we can count on for certain is that is was not just a random street killing.

[lordtiberius]

LFU,

The fact is you have lived over there and you have dealt with Russians and Ukrainians.  Respect is earned and commanded.

Brian Whitmore and Professor Mark Galeotti believe there is a power struggle going on in the Kremlin.  Galeotti thinks Putin is sick.  Whether he is sick or not, the fact remains he has demonstrated weakness.  In mobland, weakness leads to gang wars, am I wrong?

Billy B addressed this is a different thread.  "Is the war back on or is it over?"  PG posited in another thread whether Mariupol is seized will that be another "deep concern" malaise or does that mean armament or even more drastic intervention?  But all those calculations assumed a healthy and strong Putin and a united Kremlin.  I don't think we see that, do you?

Who are the competing factions in the Kremlin?  I think they are the:

• The Eurasians who want war and territory at all costs.
  
• The SysLibs or the System Liberals - the Medved types who want to use a Potemkin village approach to democracy and a free economy to loot the country and sock their wealth in the West
  
• The Siloviki who divide themselves in either camp.
• The Kadyrovsty - the Chechen muscle who Putin uses as a check against the FSB.

Whatever happened these lines of cleavage have been exposed by the Yanukovych engagement of the EU Association Agreement.  Why did Putin, a man who is by all accounts a brilliant politician miscalculate so badly?


And the seizure of Crimea and the agitation in Donetsk and Lugansk provinces is a miscalculation, wouldn't you agree?  The territorial acquisition of has hurt his economy, the political support he has withink the Kremlin which is more important than the "love" of the people. 


This guy has it right.  I don't know if he is still publishing reports.  But when he was, he knew what he was talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/user/CaspianReport


I would love to hear more about what you or others might have to say on this topic.  Thank you in advance.

[Anotherkiwi]

How about you try and use common sense for once.  You seem to be the only one not understanding the context because of simple spelling mistakes.  You might want to work on that instead of insisting others change because you can't follow the conversation.

No, LFU, these aren't simple spelling mistakes - they are completely different words, which mean something completely different from what lordtiberius was trying to say.  I had no problem eventually working out what he meant but, for those of us with larger vocabularies (which includes you and me) what he actually wrote was nonsense.  Have you forgotten that there are plenty of members and guests here whose English is not of the same standard as yours or mine?  We're trying to help them - not confuse them by using incorrect words.

[AkMike]

Not quite the opposition but..

Ukraine ex-President Yanukovych's son 'drowns in lake'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32009480