Internal Passport/Registration address

[rotor]

Quick intro.. G'day, I'm new to the list. I look forward to learning many pearls of wisdom to make my adventures less stressful... I'm nice and green to all things Russian, although I have been corresponding with a girl from Russia for some 5 months.

My question pertains to the system of Internal Passport and address registration. My girl does not appear to have a valid ID, stating that not all people are registered at the address at where they reside, and something about a 'time registration'. She also states that her Internal Passport is held by the 'Passport Office' and is being processed. Is this something to be concerned about? I am afraid I am completely ignorant on such issues, and can find very little reference to it. I have no way to positively identify this girl before traveling, although she has offered to send part payment of my airfare, and I guess that would show up on a WU form. 

 Normally this would not concern me too much, however, we are planning my visit to her city, and I have just realized that I have no actual proof of actual identity or address. I don't want to appear too cynical, but I believe personal security is a concern for everyone traveling alone. Frankly, this site and others have given my overactive imagination much to think about.  FWIW, she lives with her mother. I have her mother's passport details should I need to send anything in the future.  Any explanations or cross checking suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Elen]

Each town in Russia has it's own rules for registration (the law are signed by local government of each city). The thing which is equal for everyone Russian citizen is there have to be an information (a mark) in local passport which indicates the permanent place of residence (town-house-flat). (Of course there are homeless persons in Russia as well but it's hardly you are looking for wife among THAT auditory)

 

I'll speak about Moscow as I live here and Moscow has the most "draconic" registration law.

 
There is common thing when people live in not the same place they have registration mark about in their passports. The cases may be different


1.      People are Muscovites (which means they do have a permanent place of residence in Moscow) but they prefer to live in another flat.( rent more bigger flat, live in the flat of husband/wife/parents and etc)  In that case nobodies bother themselves with "temporal" registration. This is MY case . I live not in that flat which is written in my passport.
 

2.      People are not Muscovites but Russian citizens. In that case they have to get "temporal" registration.  But sometimes the owners of rented flat don't want to show up they have money for rented flat and don't register people in their flats. Well in that case everybody should to decide either he wants a possible troubles with militia patrol or saves money (as without registration a price for flat is low) . 

 
3.      Non-Russian citizens just must have registration, because it would be a LOT of troubles and besides they can't be hired at any job in Moscow without registration.

 

I don't know the case of your girl, but what you should be worry about is the "truth" she tells you about period her passport "spends" in "passport office" That period (according to the law) has not be more than 6 days.( as I recall right. But anyway it can't be for centure)


 Any question?

[rotor]

Elen, many thanks for your detailed explanation, very helpful. It answers a few questions, but also raises another, such as, why I have been given an alternate passport for ID. I shall assume that every Russian has an Internal Passport. Something to look into.

[jb]

rotor,

Every Russian over the age of 16 (or is it 18 or 13?) should have an internal passport.  They need it for all sorts of reasons, like going to school, propiska, (sp), city residence registration, changing money, even getting heat in the flat,,, and a whole host of other things,,,, basically everything.

It's like a National ID card in a booklet.  They can't leave home without it.

The International passport is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

[Elen]

They can't leave home without it.

Now.. you style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"overestimate grossly 

If you are woman ( and don't look like "hooker")  you may leave your pasport home. Militia "likes" males better:D

I take it with me only when I need to draw up some papers.

Actually we need our passport only when we "want" something from our officials and therefore should  "prove" our "rights" for such action:D

There is information in our internal pasport like

- First name, Father's name, Family name

- gender, date of birth, town of birth

- town-street-house-flat of permanent residence

-when and whom married (and information about divorce) (there will be nothing if divorce was before you got passport)

- information about children under 18 

 And we got our internal passport at 14. They lowered the ages( early it was 16)  in order we could start to work as early as possible. Democracy, you know :?

For travelling aboard we must get external pasport in OVIR.

[rotor]

Thanks again for all the helpful information. It is a steep learning curve, for both my girl and I.  And that is not a negative statement, we both enjoy a challenge. It seems that we have both had some misunderstandings in this issue, compounded by machine translation, but our sense of humour has remained intact. By this comment, you can probably guess that the issues are more complex than the single issue of registration/passport, but it is representative of the type of misunderstandings that can occur. We write through machine translation, (5 months, 400+ letters, 2 misunderstandings, not a bad average?) although my girl tells me that as her understanding of English improves, she now reads my past letters in English, and has a good chuckle at some of the revelations. I had an agency translate one of my letters and she "forgot to breathe". Didn't have that affect first time around... As I have been learning Russian, I have had quite a laugh at how some of my artistic writings in our comparatively less specific English language may have been construed by a less romantic artificial intelligence. Although, sometimes it has lead to minor misinterpretations which appear to have worked in my favour - overall a net positive result. :cool: Fortunately, we are open enough to frankly discuss issues as they arise - I cannot over emphasize how important this is. Candor is usually appreciated.

 In any case, the background on facts of this issue have helped clarify the situation neatly, much appreciated guys. Once my girl has relocated and settled into her new job, I shall be arranging to visit. Another aspect, she wants to contribute to my airfare, and although the assistance is a helpful gesture, I am not entirely sure on the etiquette of accepting such an offer... advice welcome...

[Elen]

Another aspect, she wants to contribute to my airfare, and although the assistance is a helpful gesture, I am not entirely sure on the etiquette of accepting such an offer... advice welcome...

 WHAT??? Have I got that right?? - she wanted to pay money for your ticket??? (or what does then contribute to my airfare mean?)

[rotor]

Elen, yes, she wants to pay for my airfare. You appear shocked? She's a sweet girl. However, I don't think she realizes the cost, hence why I kindly chose the term "contribute".

 I don't want to offend by refusing, yet she is the type of girl to go without just to make such a gift. I am thinking I might take the money and give it back to her in some way when we meet. I have been reading other threads regarding cultural etiquette, and this appears to be the least problematic method.

 I asked about etiquette as money seems to be such a taboo subject amongst girls on this group (actually, my girl uses the word shame and humiliation in connection with money), a can of worms connected mostly to scammers... though I guess this could be considered an expression of trust more than a transaction.

[Elen]

You see boys there is only one etiquette rule about money -

THERE IS NO POCKETS AT WOMAN GOWN :P:P

(nothing in common with scamers, BTW)

I asked about etiquette as money seems to be such a taboo subject amongst girls on this group

 Ha! We just afraid to say a word without being market as scammers:?

Actually may be our Russian men lack of many qualities and are bad husbands, but nevertheless  they manged to "spoil" Russian girls with their "courtings".

We didn't use to pay for anything at dates, we used to go home at taxi after a date late in the night but not at metro (as we do every day), we used to get gifts and flowers. We don't like men who bargain with price about anything with anybody in our presence :? (we leave such "utilitarians" for husbands:D).

We used to all that and think men know it and therefore actually we didn't use to ASK all that. So we can go next to you at a date and thinking to ourselves  "When that "import dude" will guess at least I'm tired  and want to eat and invite me even in Mc Donalds. And does he rally think after spending a half hour at bus station in night in company with those "suspect guys" after my "import boy friend" put me at metro train I would want to see him again?"

One date with such "fiance" may force us to become a perfect "scammer" and star to  ASK for anything:D

Well it all so complicate I can't give advice for any case in life. Sorry I know little about that subject

[Elen]

I am thinking I might take the money and give it back to her in some way when we meet.

 

Firstly you have not take these money at all. (I just can'r see any reasons. You just can't have less money than she has.)

Even if you takes them (wich is above my mind:?) you should return it not in some way but stright saying "that's for my ticket"

I know only one situation when girls paid some money "ahead". It's the case when she rents a flat for you and doesn't want to bother with  Western Union. Of course if she has  these money at all and believes you will return all sum back. (But not a half like some of you did, thinking we're all here dreamed about egual rights with males:X)