The Baltimore riot...

[Muzh]

Trenchant rebuttal. But you wouldn't immediately descend to swearing if you knew that you didn't have a roof here.

Oh? Is that the closest you come to say something of "value" to me that's not behind my back, Mr. Chat-Room moderator?

[Muzh]

Never been to the big city I see. You and Boethius should both come to Detroit and show everyone how things should be.

So, Detroit is the only "Big" city, eh?


I guess I've never been to a big city then.


However, even in the BIG city of Deeetroit there are areas where a person can walk away from the police, even when stopped without fear of retaliation because it is even guaranteed by the US Supreme Court. Look it up. Of course, these are the well-to-do areas where the majority are, you guessed it, able to afford expensive lawyers. See, a well dressed guy driving a late model very expensive car will never be stopped by the police. Even when he has slaughtered a whole family. That will happen later when, (GASP!!), it make news of a severely disturbed man gone wild.


In the ghetto, is it an everyday thing, it seems. That only explain why an unarmed man running from the police in the not-so-well-to-do areas is gunned down.


True, never been to the "BIG" city.

[Muzh]

"Feral youths" don't just appear from the forest.  Something in your society creates them.

<screeching halt>


STOP!!!


You are about to burst a huge bubble. 

[Muzh]

From what I have seen, many think it is easy to get out of the poverty if they just work hard.  It just so happens most of the people who think it is easy are the people who were born into middle to upper level classes.   It seems the majority of men on this board are white old dudes    which also tends to slant the perception. 


The reality is it is extremely difficult to move up classes.  While it is easier to do so in America, it is still not possible for most.  When looking at the quality of education and access to resources, it's amazing to witness anyone doing so. 

I believe I have said about the same sometime ago, but what the hell, I'm a liberal animal.


Thanks for stating it again.

I also blame the media for stroking the fires.  I just saw a great video of a intelligent black man telling Geraldo why he didn't want him there and he had a huge point.  The media will show up when a riot pops out but nowhere to be found to report the poverty and other issues going on within the city. 

I would agree about the media bit IF you have left Geraldo out of it. Who said he represents any mainstream media?

[LiveFromUkraine]

I would agree about the media bit IF you have left Geraldo out of it. Who said he represents any mainstream media?

True.  I posted the video because of what the young man had said to Geraldo.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Oh? Is that the closest you come to say something of "value" to me that's not behind my back, Mr. Chat-Room moderator?

haha I can only imagine those silly chats.   "You know, LiveFromUkraine isn't posting live from ukraine anymore?"

[Muzh]

[alex330]

So why don't all the "socialist" countries of the West, such as Norway, Denmark, Finland, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Belgium, and yes, even Canada, each and every one a Liberal loving hellhole, have these problems?

The Scandinavian countries are catching up to us with the rate of violence and rape. Sweden is a great example. England has a much higher rate of violence than the USA. The numbers are just reported differently.

The US has a diverse mix of cultures and ethnicities that contribute to our violence. Our rate of violence is actually not very high compared to the rest of the Western Hemisphere. Not to mention the stats are not reported in many of our neighboring countries.

[Boethius]

Please show me where any of the countries I have listed have similar numbers of police shootings.
 

[alex330]

"Feral youths" don't just appear from the forest.  Something in your society creates them.

It is popular to be a thug in this day and age. There are numerous resources at their disposal to get ahead in life. Probably moreso than the middle class has access to these days. They choose not to. They choose to walk down the street with baggy pants, sell drugs, get high, and play knockout.

[Boethius]

Still doesn't address why this is the case.  Something in your society creates this.

[alex330]

Please show me where any of the countries I have listed have similar numbers of police shootings.

They don't, the police violence is a US issue. I commenting on the subject in Bill's reply to you. The police overstepping their boundaries with excessive force is a major issue. I agree with much of what FT said abotu it upthread. Personally I do not see it getting better. More and more soldiers are returning home and filling the police ranks and we see further militarization. Miami just held an event with armed military helicopters intended to squash and riots.

[alex330]

Still doesn't address why this is the case.  Something in your society creates this.

Lack of father figures, peer pressure, laziness, immigration from impoverished neighboring countries, the need for instant gratification, and pop culture are a few of the reasons.

[Slumba]

Still doesn't address why this is the case.  Something in your society creates this.

It is not "American" society, but a society imported from somewhere else.  Similar to the reasons that Jane and Finch in Toronto, is not very safe.

[Boethius]

I have walked Jane and Finch, and stopped at stores there, in a car, to buy water.  I felt alien, but not unsafe.
 
Crime in that area has dropped, BTW, partly because of youth initiatives.

[Boethius]

Also walked through the worst parts of Vancouver.  I felt uncomfortable, but not unsafe.

I never ignore people who ask me for money, I always speak to them politely and with respect, although I almost never give them money (OK, a couple of sob stories that likely were untrue got to me, and in each case, the recipient asked if they could hug me). 
I have never been threatened or treated negatively by any street person.  I think it is because I recognize that this is a person, a human being.   This has been the case in large US cities I have visited as well.

[Anotherkiwi]

It is not "American" society, but a society imported from somewhere else.

All societies, except those in the Rift Valley, are "imports" by definition (although I do realise what you mean).  However, the majority of the US has pretty much the same general history as Canada (white invaders from 250-300 years ago), so why are there so many differences in the northern cities of the US?

I can appreciate that illegal immigration from Mexico (and, to a much lesser extent, other central American countries) severely skews the norms in places like Texas and southern California, but what proportion of Ohio's citizens (for example) fit that particular bill?  And, in any case, what proportion of the rioters in Baltimore and other places were immigrants?  Illegals are surely far more likely to keep their heads well down to avoid being noticed, and the legal kind are hardly likely to form any sort of majority in such a protest.

Take those out, and you're left with 99.9% of the troublemakers being native-born US citizens.  It is that part of your society that needs its attitudes reshaped, not the rest.  I'm not suggesting any answers, because I don't have any.  I come from a country that's so peaceful that we've had only a handful of riots in our entire history - the last of those being in 1984 - so trying to invent ways to change such entrenched attitudes would be downright impossible for anyone who has never experienced whatever the root cause may be.

[calmissile]

It is not "American" society, but a society imported from somewhere else.  Similar to the reasons that Jane and Finch in Toronto, is not very safe.

Your wrong Slumba.  It is not a society imported from somewhere else.  It is homegrown and we deserve what we get.  I am old enough to have witnessed most of our changes since WWII.  Prior to the changes of the 'Great Society' brought on by President LBJ, most of the us lived by the understanding 'if you don't work.....you don't eat'.  People had little time to protest and form organizations against the 'middle class' and the government in general.  Where I was raised in Oregon and Seattle, there were of course small safety nets and limited welfare for those that were handicapped and physically unable to work.  Growing up, I remember a family with 20 kids that all worked at some kind of jobs to support the large family.  They were not on welfare.  Some poor families also peeled cascara bark, dried it and sold it for medicinal needs to make ends meet.  Still, no handouts to those that can work.  At my grandparents home in Seattle sometimes the 'hobos' would come up from the rail yards and ask for work for a meal.  Generally my grandparents would  put them to work for a short while and grandma would make them a nice meal.  In addition, remember that the churches and charities would also help the needy.... all without government handouts.

LBJ and his congress upset the whole apple cart of American life.  In addition to taking the money earned by Americans and put in the SS Trust Fund, it was stolen and moved into the General Fund to be spent by them and the succeeding crooks in Washington.  LBJ started the big LIBERAL Entitlement Programs that has dragged the country down ever since.  The whole attitude and culture has changed significantly since then.  Americans are now entitled to 3 meals a day, color TV, smart phones, medical perks, etc,  While some of the liberals may have had their hearts in the right place, they had no idea of what those changes would do to productivity, crime rates, and more and more welfare demands.

I recall in California a while back it was decided that 'Food Stamps' were a demeaning method of cashing welfare benefits at the supermarkets.  So now they instituted Debit Cards so the poor souls would not have their feeling hurt if someone noticed.  As I recall when growing up, nearly everyone knew who was on welfare (very small number) and no one harbored a grudge against them and sometimes even helped them out privately.  Now, the welfare program is so large there is no way for the public to detect fraud.  One bank card looks like another.

I am so tired of minorities complaining about not having equal opportunities.  It is straight Bullshit!!!  We see Asians come to America with next to nothing, live in a cramped house or apartment to get them started and the whole family working toward achieving the American Dream.  Within a few years we see them buying businesses and assimilating into American life, including learning English.  I should add, that while their children are attending public schools, they are getting better grades than the US born kids (who nowdays don't want to work hard or do their homework).  So for you liberals, ask yourself 'Is there a genetic difference between these foreign families that work hard and obtain success, or is it a motivational problem for the so called underprivileged?'   If it's a motivational problem, is it because we have had 2 or 3 generations that have been taught that their well being and happiness is the responsibility of government?

Liberals are living in a dream world.  Sure it would be nice if everyone had a nice home and all the luxuries they want.  Unfortunately, those that work the most and hardest are not willing to have the government decide how much of their hard earned pay is going to be given away to someone else that is too frigging lazy to earn their own way.  As our liberal entitlement programs continue to grow, it is going to only get worse.  At some stage we may deteriorate to a stage where everyone wants the government to give them handouts and no one wants to work anymore.

In looking back, I think the late 40's to the early 60's was the best period of our nation and our culture.  I am thankful I got to witness/live it.  The only way I can see to turn things around it by drastic national policy changes.  This is unlikely to happen within our 2 party system.  One set of liars and crooks is as bad as the other set.  Unfortunately, the alphabet media has droned these dependent ideas into our heads for years and any thought of radical change is not on the horizon.   Our media is as effective as the Russian media, just a different message.

[BillyB]

I'm not sure I follow here.  The guy was running away from the cop.  How can the cop be in danger if the guy is running away from him?

The cop was only in danger when the suspect turned around and when after his taser. If the cop shot the suspect then, it would've been justified. The suspect failed to grab the taser, turned his back and ran again. The cop originally wanted to use non lethal means to stop the suspect. The cop lost his cool and shot the suspect, who now wasn't a threat, in the back. That is why the cop will be tried for murder.

Wasn't all of this over delinquent child support payments?

I doubt the cop cared about that issue except he had to do his job and take the suspect to jail. Taser used up, tired of running and losing his cool, he pulled out his gun.

Something in your society creates this.

When does personal accountability come in? If we take those lazy, unlawful on welfare youths and put them in the Canadian welfare system, they be the same people.


America is extremely successful in many aspects and some people may feel they're left out but I'm willing to bet our poor are more fatter than your poor. Opportunity is out there. There's nobody keeping them down. Financial aid for college is available for all poor kids and they alone are responsible for getting good grades and getting a degree. Asians have been in America less time than African Americans and are extremely successful. What other country has a minority group of people making more money than the majority group? Only in America.

It is not a society imported from somewhere else.  It is homegrown and we deserve what we get. 

Many of the immigrants who came here left their societies for a reason and didn't want to bring it here.

[Muzh]

It is popular to be a thug in this day and age. There are numerous resources at their disposal to get ahead in life. Probably moreso than the middle class has access to these days. They choose not to. They choose to walk down the street with baggy pants, sell drugs, get high, and play knockout.

Where do you hail from?


Where were you raised? White middle-class neighborhood?


Where stories about that "those" people are mooching the system taking away your hard-earned tax dollars abound?


I'm betting that's close to it.

[AC]

"Feral youths" don't just appear from the forest.  Something in your society creates them.

Correct.  They were created by "The Great Society", a liberal program of quotas and hand-outs started by a liberal Democratic President; LBJ.

[Boethius]

Most Western societies have handouts and quotas, in fact, in many countries, they are far more generous than in the U.S., yet they don't have your violence. 


Try again.

[Muzh]

Correct.  They were created by "The Great Society", a liberal program of quotas and hand-outs started by a liberal Democratic President; LBJ.

Oh, right.


I forgot that before "The Great Society" all these black people lived in affluent suburbs, had a high rate of literacy, and had well-paying jobs as they lived in harmony with the white people. Silly me. How could I have forgotten that?

[Anathema]

Lol @ the usual foreigner goof troop commenting on things in the US.

Is there anything that you're not a know it all/expert in, Boe?

 

[Boethius]

I don't have to be an expert to know that in other countries, police aren't killing citizens at the rate they are in the U.S.   It also doesn't take any level of expertise to know that almost all the rest of the Western world has social programmes which are  more developed than in the U.S., and yet, despite these so called "liberal" policies and values, don't have the level of violence that exists in American society.  So, something else is at play.


I'll take your lack of any explanation beyond your neanderthal "it is all the retard liberals' fault" as the prescient social commentary one can expect from a searing intellect such as yours.


I suppose it could be flattering to know someone follows my posts so closely, but I find it creepy and bizarre.  Do FSUW a favour and stay home.