Hell Unleashed: The U.S. Government is Driving Us Into War with Russia

[The Natural]

By one of the best AMERICANS, Paul Craig Roberts:

"Americans, being an insouciant people, are unaware that it was Russians, not England’s Wellington, who defeated Napoleon.  The Grande Army did not return from Russia. The loss broke the back of French military power.

The German Wehrmacht, which in a few days overran France and drove the British off the continent, was destroyed in Russia by the Red Army.

The allied invasion of Normandy encountered only a few under-strength German units deprived of fuel.

The German army and all available resources were on the Russian front."




http://www.globalresearch.ca/hell-unleashed-us-government-is-driving-us-into-war-with-russia/5449296

I Wonder, if Madness in Washington prevails, how many US coffins are the American Public willing to receive in order to wage a Proxy war in UKRAINE (a failed state for generations to come) With Russia?

[Boethius]

1.  It was a coalition of Russia-Austria-Prussia that defeated Napoleon.  However, it was Tsar Alexander II who convinced the Austrians and Prussians to switch sides.   He anticipated and waited for invasion.  So, he is the architect of Napoleon's defeat.
 
2.  The U.S. military is bigger, better trained, and better equipped than the Russian army.  It has no desire for a war.  Even with Putin the warmonger.
 
3.  If Ukraine is a failed state, Russia is as well.  It's just a failed state with a lot of natural resources and less democracy.

[fathertime]

After reading our high school textbooks you are left to believe that we were the Hero of wwII.

 

Interesting parallel the author makes between the violence with our police and the violence we inflict upon the world.   



We certainly haven't fared well in conflicts since Japan. 

Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

What history textbook are you reading from?

[The Natural]

1.  It was a coalition of Russia-Austria-Prussia that defeated Napoleon.  However, it was Tsar Alexander II who convinced the Austrians and Prussians to switch sides.   He anticipated and waited for invasion.  So, he is the architect of Napoleon's defeat.

I'm not informed of the Napoleon wars. You are, as you (seemingly) are very well informed on all of history, not only on Earth, but surely also on all other parts of the universe, so I'll leave this one alone.
 

2.  The U.S. military is bigger, better trained, and better equipped than the Russian army.  It has no desire for a war.  Even with Putin the warmonger.

Hahaha.

 

3.  If Ukraine is a failed state, Russia is as well.  It's just a failed state with a lot of natural resources and less democracy.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....stop.....you're killin' me here..hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahashahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahaha

[Boethius]

I'm not informed of the Napoleon wars. You are, as you (seemingly) are very well informed on all of history, not only on Earth, but surely also on all other parts of the universe, so I'll leave this one alone.

It's called reading.  You should try it.
 
Last book I read on Napoleon -
 
http://www.amazon.com/Russia-Against-Napoleon-Story-Campaigns/dp/0143118862
 
Professor Lieven had three ancestors who fought in the Patriotic War of 1812.  He speaks fluent Russian and German, and had access to Russian archives that have never been provided to a Western scholar before.

There are a lot of things I don't know about.  For example, the extent of my knowledge on cars is, I have a key and can turn on the ignition.  I can fill the gas tank and windshield wiper fluid.  I can pump air in a tire.  Beyond that, nothing.   Same goes for anything mechanical.  There have been a few threads here on airplanes, something else I know nothing about, and, frankly, have no interest in, other than as a means by which I can travel quickly across long distances in relative comfort.


I don't know much about baseball.  Couldn't tell you the difference between a fastball and a curveball, or the significance of RBI beyond knowing what the acronym stands for.


I know nothing about hip hop music.  That is not going to change, even though I am subjected to it thanks to my sons. 


I know virtually nothing about India, or its history, other than forced Muslim conversions (and then, only because I have been reading a lot about Islam, not India).  I have a very superficial knowledge of Chinese history and culture.


This forum is devoted to the FSU, a culture that is not alien to me, a history I have read, lived, and studied since childhood (up to a masters degree), languages I can speak, and a region where I lived.  I didn't learn it because I was chasing tail.  It is something that has interested me for almost my entire life.  So of course I know a lot about various aspects of that culture.  You don't have to agree with my views, I don't really care, one way or another.

Hahaha.

 
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....stop.....you're killin' me here..hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahashahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahaha

It is true.  The US has more military equipment, and better equipment.  That is what is behind this militarization in Russia.   
 
I am not American, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. 
 
Here are comparisons.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=United-States-of-America
 
http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=russia
 
As for failed states, Russia is really not any different from Ukraine, other than it is authoritarian, and Ukraine is not.  Russia has the same oligarchic structure with an underdeveloped middle class.  The difference is, Russia had oil and gas, and used that to bribe  compensate its bureaucracy.  That is a significant part of its middle class (1 in 3).  So, no oil and gas, no economic gains.
 
But thank you for that scintillating analysis.  It has opened my mind to new possibilities.

[fathertime]

What history textbook are you reading from?

the ones i remember from when i was in school.....I'll have to take a look at my kids high school books and see what they are saying now. 


fathertime!   

[The Natural]

 
It is true.  The US has more military equipment, and better equipment.  That is what is behind this militarization in Russia.   
 
I am not American, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. 

Hahaha, no, you don't have a dog in this fight. You obviously have a pack of volves in this fight. You're not an American we know. But what are you then? A Canadian Citizen, as I understand. Perhaps With Ukrainian ancestories, perhaps  nacionalist socialist ones, only you know.

Then on to the gear. Yes, the US have way more military Equipment that do Russia. After all, the US spend more than 10 times more on defense (offence) than do Russia.
However you are wrong about that fact being the reason behind Russia's "militarization". It is really not much more that a modernization done by Russia. I can see that a Russia-hater take that as an aggressive move and insist that Russia stay With Technologies from the 80's while the "free world" freely advance into the next Century.
 

As for failed states, Russia is really not any different from Ukraine, other than it is authoritarian, and Ukraine is not.  Russia has the same oligarchic structure with an underdeveloped middle class.  The difference is, Russia had oil and gas, and used that to bribe  compensate its bureaucracy.  That is a significant part of its middle class (1 in 3).  So, no oil and gas, no economic gains.
 
But thank you for that scintillating analysis.  It has opened my mind to new possibilities.

Jeez, and I thought you were Bright. In these few lines you show Your utter ignorance to hard facts and resort to daydreaming about Your fantasy Ukraine. Listen, Your Ukraine is and will remain a failed state and you have done Your bit to make that reality come true. Face it!

[Anotherkiwi]

Jeez, and I thought you were Bright. In these few lines you show Your utter ignorance to hard facts and resort to daydreaming about Your fantasy Ukraine. Listen, Your Ukraine is and will remain a failed state and you have done Your bit to make that reality come true. Face it!

How things change!  Your wife is from Kerch, and all your original trip reports and posts were full of the wonders of Ukraine, and how great it was to find such a special Ukrainian woman.  Not a word about her Russian nationalist sympathies, or how she would love Ukraine to become part of Russia again.

As soon as Putin invades and annexes Crimea, it's all change with you.

Talk about two-faced - you've got it in spades. 

[Boethius]

Hahaha, no, you don't have a dog in this fight. You obviously have a pack of volves in this fight. You're not an American we know. But what are you then? A Canadian Citizen, as I understand. Perhaps With Ukrainian ancestories, perhaps  nacionalist socialist ones, only you know.

Then on to the gear. Yes, the US have way more military Equipment that do Russia. After all, the US spend more than 10 times more on defense (offence) than do Russia.
However you are wrong about that fact being the reason behind Russia's "militarization". It is really not much more that a modernization done by Russia. I can see that a Russia-hater take that as an aggressive move and insist that Russia stay With Technologies from the 80's while the "free world" freely advance into the next Century.
 
Jeez, and I thought you were Bright. In these few lines you show Your utter ignorance to hard facts and resort to daydreaming about Your fantasy Ukraine. Listen, Your Ukraine is and will remain a failed state and you have done Your bit to make that reality come true. Face it!

Please point out all these "hard facts".  I mean real facts.

[The Natural]

How things change!  Your wife is from Kerch, and all your original trip reports and posts were full of the wonders of Ukraine, and how great it was to find such a special Ukrainian woman.  Not a word about her Russian nationalist sympathies, or how she would love Ukraine to become part of Russia again.

As soon as Putin invades and annexes Crimea, it's all change with you.

Talk about two-faced - you've got it in spades. 

Here comes the intelligencia from down under With his Sharp analysis.

Listen ; are you dense? My trip report was from 2011 and you demand of me to make a political commentary then, of events not happening yet? How dense can one become and still be able to Write on a keyboard?

You really made Your way up there on my personal hate list and it's getting pretty crowded there by idiots from Down under. Is it a virus or something, maybe snakes or spiders making you guys mad on the low side?

Come on, do Your bit, I will take it as far as the moderator lets us. As a pro-Russian my money's on me getting moderated first!

[Boethius]

You will notice that Belvis is never moderated.  Why do you think that is?


He can express his views without resorting to threats or expletives. 

[Boethius]

BTW, the U.S. did not invade Crimea.  It has not supplied billions in weaponry to Ukraine.  That is all the work of your heroes in Moscow.  But khokhol lives don't matter to you, right?

[The Natural]

Please point out all these "hard facts".  I mean real facts.

Oh no, dear attorney. It seems to me that you, unlike all others that I know about in Your profession, have all the time in the world to find out stuff for yourself.

Besides, all the hard facts in the world I would spend a lot of time digging up, will not make ANY difference to someone dedicated to THE CAUSE, like you are With Ukraine. Listen my friend, without Russia (which fools keeps trying to slap the hands of), Ukraine is DEAD!. At some point even the psycopaths in Washington and the lap-dogs in Europe will realize ity's either Ukraine or World War III. What do you think they will choose?

[Boethius]

In other words, you can't prove your assertions on Ukraine's "failed state" status.




Poland isn't dead without Russia.  The Baltics aren't dead without Russia.  The Czechs and Hungarians aren't dead without Russia.  But of course, Ukrainians can't function without their "elder brother", right?

[The Natural]

You will notice that Belvis is never moderated.  Why do you think that is?


He can express his views without resorting to threats or expletives.

Belvis is never moderated? i have no opinion as I don't, unlike you obviously, follow this site from day to day to know the inner workings on this stuff.


threats or expletives.



You get personal With me and I will give back. Don't play victim of an assholes behalf. Let him spoeak his venom

[The Natural]

In other words, you can't prove your assertions on Ukraine's "failed state" status.

Poland isn't dead without Russia.  The Baltics aren't dead without Russia.  The Czechs and Hungarians aren't dead without Russia.  But of course, Ukrainians can't function without their "elder brother", right?

Don't you know that numerous EU countries are in the red? What about Greece? No leniiency on Greec cebt. Large deficits in southern European countries, not to speak about the eastern ones. Cries of "Russian aggression" to fund more on defence on already Budgets in the red? A crisis of refugees fleeing in the thousands to Europe because of US and Europe backed bombing raids on northern Africa
?

Everyones bankrupt and you expect somebodys going to give Ukraine hundreds of billions to get out of the ditch? You must be dreaming. Same as always will happen; USA will use usefull fools in whatever country to do it's bidding, next round they are useless or even an enemy. Paul Craig Roberts warned the Ukrainian Citizens of this over a year ago. He received hate mail. Later on he received mail saying they were sorry for believing in the illegal coup!They saw what's coming and it's going to get much worse for those who backed illegalities and neo.nazism!

[fathertime]

Besides, all the hard facts in the world I would spend a lot of time digging up, will not make ANY difference to someone dedicated to THE CAUSE, like you are With Ukraine. Listen my friend, without Russia (which fools keeps trying to slap the hands of), Ukraine is DEAD!. At some point even the psycopaths in Washington and the lap-dogs in Europe will realize ity's either Ukraine or World War III. What do you think they will choose?

I think your bottom line is correct.  Russia will retain control over much of Ukraine.  If we (the US) get too much more involved it will only make things more bloody, and Russia will still retain control, but at a greater cost to both Ukrainians and Russians...at best...at worst other nations are drawn in and a very large war erupts. [size=78%] [/size]


Fathertime!   

[The Natural]

Washington must be mad if they commit troops to Ukraine. It will be a factory of US draped flag coffins and impossible politically (unless the US Public still finds it in it's best interest to sacrifice it's Young men and women for big Corporations).

The US has already sent 300 troops to Train Ukrainian neo-nazi Battalions. On the other hand, Foreign minister Kerry went to Sochi to meet up With Lavrov and Putin. Some say the US is backing Down on the Russian Assault because they have more pressing issues elsewhere. That remains to be seen. Personally I would have hard evidence before I'd trust a snake.

[Steamer]

On the other hand, Foreign minister Kerry went to Sochi to meet up With Lavrov and Putin. Some say the US is backing Down on the Russian Assault because they have more pressing issues elsewhere.

I could only HOPE that is true. People in the US are getting plenty sick and tired of spending endless billions on every war that pops up around the globe; while at the same time our roads, schools and cities are going straight down the crapper but we have NO money for that!

[jone]

Natural,

I have seen nothing on the horizon that would commit US fighting troops to Ukraine.  There are many other scenarios that would play out before that would happen.  I see the US delivering Joint Stand Off Weapons to Ukraine as a quid pro quo as a much more likely scenario. 

Ukraine has had a great deal of time to prepare for the next assault.  I don't think we will be seeing another Debal'tseve again in 2015.  Should Russia proceed with its hybrid war, I think that we will see many Russians going home as Gruz 200.

[Anotherkiwi]

Here comes the intelligencia from down under With his Sharp analysis.

Listen ; are you dense? My trip report was from 2011 and you demand of me to make a political commentary then, of events not happening yet? How dense can one become and still be able to Write on a keyboard?

No, you're the dense one.  Of course I didn't expect any political commentary on your original trip report - it would be nonsensical of anyone to expect that.  What I find objectionable in your conduct is the way that you have effectively changed sides at a moment's notice to support a regime which has invaded another country, without giving any thought to how that makes you look.

As I wrote above, you were full of praise for Ukraine and all things Ukrainian - you loved the country, you loved the scenery, and you especially loved the woman you found.  We all cheered for you because it seemed like a very happy ending.  Obviously I'm not going to look at all your posts again, but I can't remember the slightest whiff of dissatisfaction with the country at any time from your initial trip, through your subsequent visits and on to when your wife landed in Norway.

Seriously, what changed you?  As far as I can tell, your wife had a good life under Ukrainian rule, and I can't remember you ever saying that she was so glad to leave her country behind that she would gone anywhere to get away.  Why would you so suddenly become so against the country which has given the two of you so much?

Whatever happened in the Maidan in Kyiv had absolutely no effect on Crimea, because that part of Ukraine was already autonomous, with special status and its own Parliament.  Everything that happened there was due SOLELY to the Russian invasion.

You really made Your way up there on my personal hate list and it's getting pretty crowded there by idiots from Down under. Is it a virus or something, maybe snakes or spiders making you guys mad on the low side?

Come on, do Your bit, I will take it as far as the moderator lets us. As a pro-Russian my money's on me getting moderated first!

I don't give a monkey's whatsit if I'm on your hate list - it's not as if we're ever going to meet.  I'll give you a little bit of latitude because English is not your first language, but some of what you write does appear to be a response to something which you may have misinterpreted.  Don't be so quick to judge everybody - give us some real reason to consider why we should read anything that you write - and that doesn't mean repeating the same old claptrap about a neo-Nazi coup in Kyiv, funded totally by the United States.

You've also wilfully ignored the point that jone and I (and others) have made - we're not anti-Russia in the sense of hating the country.  I've actually been there, and love it - it's the current regime and its lying mouthpieces Putin and Lavrov that I despise.  Have you ever been there?  Or did you only go to Ukraine?  And DON'T count Crimea as part of Russia. 

[Doll]

Oh no, dear attorney. It seems to me that you, unlike all others that I know about in Your profession, have all the time in the world to find out stuff for yourself.

 ?

What is her profession? Attorney? hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[cc3]

I could only HOPE that is true. People in the US are getting plenty sick and tired of spending endless billions on every war that pops up around the globe; while at the same time our roads, schools and cities are going straight down the crapper but we have NO money for that!

Steamer, off-topic sidebar: the US spends more money on its schools than any country on the planet. It's simply not spent wisely.

[Steamer]

Steamer, off-topic sidebar: the US spends more money on its schools than any country on the planet. It's simply not spent wisely.

I can believe it.