Selling an apartment in Moscow

[BillyB]

If you are a US citizen or a green card holder, income and capital gains worldwide are taxable.

We are talking about a person who is not in that category so currently she doesn't have to report anything to the American IRS. She can sell the home and bring over all that money and won't owe the American government one dime. Once she marries Ken, it will be considered his property too and her status will change.


Here's what Ken needs to know if she decides to hold on to the property and sell it while married to him.


http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/selling-property-in-a-foreign-country.aspx


When she marries Ken, the bad news is they will have to pay the taxes on capital gains but they can't be double tax by two countries. If she sells in the current market, there may not be any gains but losses. If the taxes of capital gains they pay to Russia are than in the US, Ken and his wife can take a credit or deduction from the IRS which benefits them.


tax info


http://premieroffshore.com/us-tax-breaks-offshore-real-estate/

30% for Russia tax?

If Russia does take 30%, Ken and his future wife may be getting a larger refund check from the IRS from taking a big hit like that.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Once she marries Ken, it will be considered his property too and her status will change.

Say what?  Where does it say her assets prior to marriage automatically becomes his once they are married?

[Faux Pas]

We are talking about a person who is not in that category so currently she doesn't have to report anything to the American IRS. She can sell the home and bring over all that money and won't owe the American government one dime. Once she marries Ken, it will be considered his property too and her status will change.


Here's what Ken needs to know if she decides to hold on to the property and sell it while married to him.


http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/selling-property-in-a-foreign-country.aspx


When she marries Ken, the bad news is they will have to pay the taxes on capital gains but they can't be double tax by two countries. If she sells in the current market, there may not be any gains but losses. If the taxes of capital gains they pay to Russia are than in the US, Ken and his wife can take a credit or deduction from the IRS which benefits them.


tax info


http://premieroffshore.com/us-tax-breaks-offshore-real-estate/



If Russia does take 30%, Ken and his future wife may be getting a larger refund check from the IRS from taking a big hit like that.

Billy's dump truck and tax accounting service strikes again, eh? Is there anymore bad advice you'd like to make up and add?  This is from your own source, did you bother to read what you are quoting as a source?

"For many foreigners who are not well-advised when immigrating, the sale of property post-residency is a tax trap. Although your wife may have substantial appreciation in the property prior to becoming a resident, the law still requires her to use the original purchase price. She would have been well-advised to have sold the property prior to her coming to the U.S."

[BillyB]

Say what?  Where does it say her assets prior to marriage automatically becomes his once they are married?

Your link, which provides other links, says if she marries a citizen, she will answer to the IRS or if she comes here alone and lives here a certain amount of time, she will have to report income. Certain visas are an exception. k-1 is not one of them so even if she doesn't marry Ken an decides to make a life here by herself, She can't avoid the IRS for long.

the sale of property post-residency is a tax trap.

You having comprehension problems again? Post residency will most likely mean she's in a marriage with Ken which I addressed that they have to answer to the IRS.

  She would have been well-advised to have sold the property prior to her coming to the U.S."

So far everybody here are advising her not to sell the property due to the hit she'll take in a bad market for sellers. She is currently not in the US so if she and Ken simply want to avoid the IRS, she should sell the property now and can move all that money here without the IRS being able to touch it. Most likely Russia's tax man will take more taxes than the IRS so in that case they can deduct or get a credit.

[Faux Pas]

You having comprehension problems again? Post residency will most likely mean she's in a marriage with Ken which I addressed that they have to answer to the IRS.


So far everybody here are advising her not to sell the property due to the hit she'll take in a bad market for sellers. She is currently not in the US so if she and Ken simply want to avoid the IRS, she should sell the property now and can move all that money here without the IRS being able to touch it. Most likely Russia's tax man will take more taxes than the IRS so in that case they can deduct or get a credit.

Ken stated they have applied for a K-1 visa. That would indicate to most folks that they are getting married. From the framing of his question, it's a pretty good bet she is coming to the US and they are getting married. In any event, that is what his question was, selling the apartment after that happened. Ken can correct me if I am wrong.

You Billy, in your lust to sound intelligent and failing miserably are passing off bad information on a subject you know nothing about but claim to be knowledgeable because you read it on the internet. Your fantasy world doesn't change anything Billy, it's still bad information. If Ken asks how much fill dirt he needs for his driveway by all means, step up and help a brother out.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Your link, which provides other links, says if she marries a citizen, she will answer to the IRS or if she comes here alone and lives here a certain amount of time, she will have to report income. Certain visas are an exception. k-1 is not one of them so even if she doesn't marry Ken an decides to make a life here by herself, She can't avoid the IRS for long.

Right, she will be required to report to the IRS, but you had me confused on the "considered his property too" portion.

[BillyB]

Ken stated they have applied for a K-1 visa. That would indicate to most folks that they are getting married.

Ken got enough answers and the right answers for selling a home in Russia before or after marriage. What more do you need to know?

You Billy, in your lust to sound intelligent and failing miserably are passing off bad information on a subject you know nothing about but claim to be knowledgeable because you read it on the internet. Your fantasy world doesn't change anything Billy, it's still bad information.

If you're winning a debate, you don't need to attack posters. Try winning sometimes, it feels better and you won't have to go off topic.

If Ken asks how much fill dirt he needs for his driveway by all means, step up and help a brother out.

Trying to embarrass me by letting everybody know I work with dirt for a living? I bid on and secure multi million dollar contracts but I'll do small jobs such as driveways. What do you do for a living, piss people off? I've lost count how many people you've turned off this forum. When people leave due to your rudeness, you accuse them of not being man enough but when they stick around like I do, you're still grumpy. Figure out where the problem lies and get to a happy place.

[Faux Pas]

Ken got enough answers and the right answers for selling a home in Russia before or after marriage. What more do you need to know?



If you're winning a debate, you don't need to attack posters. Try winning sometimes, it feels better and you won't have to go off topic.



Trying to embarrass me by letting everybody know I work with dirt for a living? I bid on and secure multi million dollar contracts but I'll do small jobs such as driveways. What do you do for a living, piss people off? I've lost count how many people you've turned off this forum. When people leave due to your rudeness, you accuse them of not being man enough but when they stick around like I do, you're still grumpy. Figure out where the problem lies and get to a happy place.

I see nothing wrong with working with dirt for a living. Maybe you do? Stick with what you know and it's still bad information

[KenInUtah]

Ugh.  All I wanted to know is if someone knew a reputable real estate agent/attorney.  I wasn't asking for legal advice or trying to start a fight.  I have an attorney and accountant here for all the US issues anyway.

[Faux Pas]

Lilia is going to want to sell her apartment in Moscow after she is established here but she is worried about "thieves" in the Russian legal and real estate profession. 

How should she:

1. List the house for sale an secure a buyer
2. Close the deal (go back to Russia to do it or get a real estate lawyer)
3. Transfer the funds to the US
4. Pay taxes - is it just the 30% to Russia or is the US going to want something to?  I know we have a tax treaty with Russia and the apartment will be under $250K

Anyone have any suggestions?  Maybe someone knows a reputable Real Estate agent and/or Attorney that could do the closing?  How did anyone else do this?

Fight? LOL not even close but as a reminder ^ that is what you asked.

[mendeleyev]

(From the Mendeleyev Journal)

In recent weeks, readers have inquired as to real estate prices in Russia, and specifically in relation to the ongoing economic crisis in Russia. The housing market is depressed, and in the terminology familiar to real estate investors, it is a "buyers" market at the moment.

To give some perspective, we snapped this photo of a real estate advertisement while riding on the Moscow Metro last night.




Amenities include a gated community, 24 hour security on-site with swimming pool, golf privileges nearby, and fitness facilities. There is a supermarket adjacent to the development and a kindergarten already built inside the development. These homes feature large kitchens, playgrounds for children, plenty of green space including a park with trees, and a parking space assigned to each apartment. Brand new brick construction with modern insulation will make these homes to be energy efficient.

Price: 2,9 million rubles (just under $53,000 USD)

The ruble has fallen 1.9% in the past three days and we are guessing that this price will torpedo the notions of big money for some who hope to sell an older flat. On the other hand, it will perhaps encourage some readers to invest at this time of low prices for homes.

[sleepycat]

Wow... That is really cheap for real estate prices in a major city.

Mendy, to give us some perspective, roughly how much would the same apartment be sold for 2 years ago?

[mendeleyev]

Two to four years ago this would likely have been listed for $125,000-150,000.

Today, more younger adult children are still living with parents, for example. The economic crisis, especially in sectors like real estate, is a result of the loss of access to credit sources, and the fact that most of the Western sanctions are aimed at the small group of ultra-wealthy oligarchs who possess a majority of Russia's resources and real estate.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Two to four years ago this would likely have been listed for $125,000-150,000.

Today, more younger adult children are still living with parents, for example. The economic crisis, especially in sectors like real estate, is a result of the loss of access to credit sources, and the fact that most of the Western sanctions are aimed at the small group of ultra-wealthy oligarchs who possess a majority of Russia's resources and real estate.

Mendy, do you think it's a safe environment for foreigners to invest in real estate there? 

[mendeleyev]

That would be a personal decision. I am already invested so I have no other option but to ride it out.

As to being safe for foreigners, it depends on who is the foreigner. From Europe and Asia, it is much safer.

I would caution Americans in particular, and Canadians, from rushing in. The media has made the atmosphere so much more toxic with daily anti-American features. 

There is not a single week that goes by without hearing either well-meaning questions relating "why do you want war with us?" to outright hateful and rude comments made by strangers. It is not yet a daily thing, but it happens more than once weekly, especially when traveling alone. I find that when a family member with typical ethnic Russian features is at my side, such incidents are nearly non-existent.

[mhr7]

That would be a personal decision. I am already invested so I have no other option but to ride it out.

As to being safe for foreigners, it depends on who is the foreigner. From Europe and Asia, it is much safer.

I would caution Americans in particular, and Canadians, from rushing in. The media has made the atmosphere so much more toxic with daily anti-American features. 

There is not a single week that goes by without hearing either well-meaning questions relating "why do you want war with us?" to outright hateful and rude comments made by strangers. It is not yet a daily thing, but it happens more than once weekly, especially when traveling alone. I find that when a family member with typical ethnic Russian features is at my side, such incidents are nearly non-existent.

The atmosphere in Moscow seems to be far more hostile than here in my little city. Folks have been nothing but friendly and welcoming to me. I've had zero anti-American experiences.

[mendeleyev]

The most pointed, and downright hostile, encounter that I have experienced recently was approximately 12 days ago in a small village about 30 minutes from Torzhok (well past Tver). The village had 200 residents at best, and when news that an American journalist was filming their two war monuments, it seemed that the entire village gathered to investigate. TV news on Russian networks is very anti-American these days and each little house in this village seemed to have a Satellite dish.

It almost turned hostile, not because of anything I said, but because of my presence. I was accompanied by my wife, and most fortunately, was under escort by a Colonel in the Russian Army. Things calmed down a bit when he announced that I had full permission, and that they should be grateful that the first American journalist had been granted permission to visit and film on that day.

It didn't hurt to have a Russian wife, and to be Orthodox. I do not wear the Orthodox badge as a way to gain favour, but the Colonel made it known that I was a fellow Orthodox believer--although that almost backfired as he did not realize that most of the village was part of an "Old Believer's" community, not in communion with the mainstream Russian Orthodox Church. I did not realize it either and when a couple of the grandmothers returned with an old icon for me to venerate, I used the typical 3-finger fold to make the sign of the cross. Oops, the Old Believers use only 2 fingers and I had to endure a lecture on the history of the differences between the two.

That being said, I understood it better to politely endure such a lecture, than to face the small crowd that had been so angry earlier. 

[Faux Pas]

The most pointed, and downright hostile, encounter that I have experienced recently was approximately 12 days ago in a small village about 30 minutes from Torzhok (well past Tver). The village had 200 residents at best, and when news that an American journalist was filming their two war monuments, it seemed that the entire village gathered to investigate. TV news on Russian networks is very anti-American these days and each little house in this village seemed to have a Satellite dish.

It almost turned hostile, not because of anything I said, but because of my presence. I was accompanied by my wife, and most fortunately, was under escort by a Colonel in the Russian Army. Things calmed down a bit when he announced that I had full permission, and that they should be grateful that the first American journalist had been granted permission to visit and film on that day.

It didn't hurt to have a Russian wife, and to be Orthodox. I do not wear the Orthodox badge as a way to gain favour, but the Colonel made it known that I was a fellow Orthodox believer--although that almost backfired as he did not realize that most of the village was part of an "Old Believer's" community, not in communion with the mainstream Russian Orthodox Church. I did not realize it either and when a couple of the grandmothers returned with an old icon for me to venerate, I used the typical 3-finger fold to make the sign of the cross. Oops, the Old Believers use only 2 fingers and I had to endure a lecture on the history of the differences between the two.

That being said, I understood it better to politely endure such a lecture, than to face the small crowd that had been so angry earlier. 

Did you apologize? 

[Steamer]

Wow... That is really cheap for real estate prices in a major city.

True but this is NOT in a major city. The Metro doesn't even go out this far which is one reason for the cheap price.

[fathertime]

True but this is NOT in a major city. The Metro doesn't even go out this far which is one reason for the cheap price.

Professional investors might say NOW is the time to invest, especially if it was already a consideration.  Big discounts don't last forever.   


Fathertime!   

[SANDRO43]

Professional investors might say NOW is the time to invest, especially if it was already a consideration. Big discounts don't last forever.

Wise investors might wonder how long they would have to wait, to eventually reap benefits from their investment .

[fathertime]

Wise investors might wonder how long they would have to wait, to eventually reap benefits from their investment .

True...that is the risk/reward for those that have the stomach for it.  Depends on how one might think the current issues are going to wrap up.  If they wrap up relatively smoothly in the next few years, it could turn out great...if they wrap up in nuclear war then the money spent won't matter anyway! 


Fathertime! 

[Chicagoguy]

Nothing happened in my wife's city of 500,000 even though I am an obvious
American. My clothes, hat with English writing and speaking only English.

[mendeleyev]

True but this is NOT in a major city. The Metro doesn't even go out this far which is one reason for the cheap price.

Steamer, it is a well populated and growing suburban area of Moscow. That is like saying that Orange County is not a major factor just because it sits in the shadow of Los Angeles. I travel areas like this frequently and they are a popular alternative to the crowded inner city of Moscow.

[mendeleyev]

Nothing happened in my wife's city of 500,000 even though I am an obvious
American. My clothes, hat with English writing and speaking only English.

No doubt, as your time in-country is limited, and you are likely most often accompanied by an ethnic looking Russian. Go solo, for weeks, and then let me know the change.