Anti-fascist news

[fathertime]

Apparently you've never read Theodor Herzl and Arthur Balfour.

Go ahead and elaborate, as it stands you have name-dropped names from an earlier period regarding back room dealings.  I'd like to hear your viewpoint on this particular issue. 


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

I really have questions why Israel HAD to be placed right there in the middle of a lot of peoples that don't want them there.  I mean it was Europe's issue in regards to the millions killed in WWII, why was Israel imposed on the Middle East, in part because of the European racism issue?    Because the Jewish people lived there 1300 years before?  It seems like it was an overreaction to carve out land among other hostile countries.  They would have likely been welcomed here in the USA or perhaps other regions. 

The Zionist movement predates the Holocaust, and this is where Jews chose to emigrate.  At the time, Palestine was an outpost of the Ottoman Empire.  Herzl worked hard getting the Turks onside.  So, this is the place the Jews chose.

[JayH]

Russians are not doing so well in the battle zone as previously. Ukrainian forces have shown a big improvement in the last 12 months. If they had up to date weapons chances are they could remove the Russian forces.
The  problem for Ukraine is that the general disruption to Ukraine is Putin's game plan-or at least a significent part of it- so some of his aims are being achieved at this stage.


Paul Niland: Has Ukraine outplayed Russia?

Russia is impotent. It cannot move any further than the territory it currently controls, as was demonstrated last week when Russian forces advanced alongside the few locals they have fighting for them on the town of Mariinka. The assault was instantly condemned and there were immediate comments from the right people about “increasing costs” to Russia.

Russia’s further movement out of the areas currently occupied is not only hampered by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe Special Monitoring Mission, whose report about the events leading up to the Mariinka assault pulled no punches, but it is in fact also now hampered by what has become a quite professional and capable Ukrainian army.

Theirs is a fighting capacity that is based on anabsolute determination from Ukraine’s service personnel to remove foreign invaders from their land. They are true Ukrainian patriots and they formidably stand in the way of Russian President Vladimir Putin grabbing any more of their country or subjugating anymore of their country folk.

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/paul-niland-has-ukraine-outplayed-russia-391032.html

[JayH]

Quoting just a few of the Fascist Russian Lies that the Kremlin media tried to make run !

Russia is fond of propagating an opinion that the people of east Ukraine can never live with the rest of Ukraine again, this is another myth and petulant attempt to create a reality they would like to see.

The best demonstration of this is Slovyansk.

The town chosen to be the centre point of what Russia hopedwould be a “counter-revolution” but never was.

Who remembers the fake news about white phosphorous being used on the civilians of Slovyansk?

Who remembers the early stories of the Ukrainian army randomly and indiscriminately shelling everything killing children?

The story of “child killers” was tested there and it is still in wide use around eastern Ukraine and in Russia and when in actual fact Igor Strelkov fled Slovyansk for Donetsk what happened?

Russian TV news even invented a story about a child being crucified in the centre of the city, yet another disgraceful lie, and yet there is Slovyansk, part of Ukraine, being rebuilt by the people of Ukraine after war was brought to them against their wishes.

And Slovyansk will stand as an example for the rest of Ukraine as it is rebuilt following Russia’s manufactured war.
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/paul-niland-has-ukraine-outplayed-russia-391032.html

[fathertime]

The Zionist movement predates the Holocaust, and this is where Jews chose to emigrate.  At the time, Palestine was an outpost of the Ottoman Empire.  Herzl worked hard getting the Turks onside.  So, this is the place the Jews chose.

I get all of that...the Zionists wanted that particular spot.  From what I've read it sounds like it was truly a backroom deal...it was against the will of the Arabs living in the region...even though Great Briton/France were using their spheres of influence to create propaganda in favor of the Zionists. 


"The Arab countries (all of which had opposed the plan) proposed to query the International Court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants, but the resolution was rejected"



Fathertime!

[Larry1]

"The Arab countries (all of which had opposed the plan) proposed to query the International Court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants, but the resolution was rejected"



Fathertime!

Which country was partitioned?

[JayH]

Exclusive Access to the Russian Forpost Drone Shot Down in Ukraine
Russia’s repeated attempts to convince the international community and its own citizens that there are no Russian troops, or weapons in Ukraine have grown tiresome and farcical, especially when compared against the meticulously researched mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Shortly after Ukrainian troops captured two Russian Spetsnaz soldiers, a Ukrainian special forces unit of the Dnipro-1 Battalion shot down a $6 million Russian Forpost drone near Avdeevka in Eastern Ukraine. The Russian government was quick to distance itself from the soldiers, and even went so far as to parade their families in front of the media to deny their active status. However, the drone that was shot down that day is not something the Russian government can deny owning and operating. Drones, advanced as they might be, do not as of yet have the power of free will, so this particular one could not get lost and fly into Ukraine, or leave its unit to volunteer for service in Ukraine.






http://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/06/13/the-russian-forpost-drone-shot-down-in-ukraine/

[Boethius]

The next paragraph at the link is important, particularly for those who believe Russian denials about its involvement in Donbas -

It’s used to acquire a complete picture of the battlefield and relay real time information to artillery teams in order to correct their fire which devastates enemy positions. Although it doesn’t drop bombs, the impact of the surveillance is equally

[JayH]

This is another failure that is now obvious for Russia -- Putin overplayed his gamble long ago. Unlike the  lie upon a lie concept actually penetrating-- the gamble on top of a gamble has not worked.
Putins-misreading-of-situation-behind-hardening-of-wests-position-on-ukraine
The toughening of the West’s position on Ukraine, very much in evidence at the G7 meeting, reflects the fact that Vladimir Putin has fundamentally misread the situation and not taken advantage of the face-saving measures which the West had been offering him, according to Vitaly Portnikov.

The Kremlin leader “sincerely believed that the fact that Merkel and Hollande came to him and that negotiations in Minsk followed were connected with the West’s fear of further destabilization.” But in fact, the Ukrainian commentator says, “Merkel like all other Western leaders was concerned above all with the need to give Putin the chance to save face.”

Minsk was “a magnificent opportunity” for that, he continues. The “’peoples republics’” could continue to function but with Putin “looking not like a traitor but a peacekeeper and defender of the interests of ‘the Russian world’… And talks about Crimea in such a paradigm could continue forever.”


Everyone “must understand that there is no good outcome for Putin here, although in the case of the second, [Ukrainians] may pay for a new outburst of aggression with the lives of [Ukrainian] soldiers and civilians, with destruction, and with economic losses.”

“But all this was the case only if you viewed the situation realistically,” Portnikov says. But “if on the other hand, you are Putin, then you are certain that the West is “tired’ of Ukraine… and you are the one giving the West the opportunity to save face” by allowing talks to happen even as you solidify your control over a neighboring country.]Putin’s misreading of situation behind hardening of West’s position on Ukraine, Portnikov says[/size]

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/06/13/putins-misreading-of-situation-behind-hardening-of-wests-position-on-ukraine-portnikov-says/

[jone]

The Zionist movement predates the Holocaust, and this is where Jews chose to emigrate.  At the time, Palestine was an outpost of the Ottoman Empire.  Herzl worked hard getting the Turks onside.  So, this is the place the Jews chose.

In summary, you are absolutely right.  By the time the Holocaust occurred, there were Jewish settlements up and down Palestine.  The British even worked to keep the Jews from going to Israel after WWII, thinking that they would be slaughtered.The Brits went so far as to deliver much of their war making capabilities in situ to the Arabs in the assumption that the Arabs would control the land.

What was the impetus for those Palestinian settlements?  Not the writings of Herzl, who simply stated that the Jews were already migrating to Palestine.    And while the Balfour Declaration laid out means of occupying Palestine as a central Jewish home, it was an acknowledgement of hundreds of years of repatriation of the Jewish community already ongoing.   Old Jewish cities, like Safed, had existed for generations, even back through the Crusades, with substantial Jewish populations that experienced a noticeable upswing in the late 1800's.

Funniest thing is that no one, back then, thought the Jews were ever going to have a State of their own.  The British Cabinet felt that the Jews were too querulous to self govern.

[JayH]

Dont let too many facts get in the way of Kremlin Lies & Propaganda-- the nonsense posted by some in thread needs off setting with a few realities.

Seven Reasons the War in Ukraine is Actually a Russian Invasion

Since the Euromaidan protests, Kremlin-aligned media has created an avalanche of propaganda aimed to discredit the protesters as Western-backed, and exaggerate the role played by far right groups. Stories of “fascist atrocities”, and grasping at any mistakes of the new authorities such as a hasty repeal of Yanukovych’s law granting Russian language regional status initially fueled the pro-Russian protests across largely Russian-speaking South-Eastern Ukraine. Subsequently, pro-Putin media has capitalized on the Odesa tragedy, the Mariupol clashes, and Donbas civilians killed by Ukrainian return fire as a result of the terrorists’ human shield tactics. This has been mobilizing volunteers to the separatist cause from both Donbas and Russia. Perhaps without the Russian media influence the conflict would never have started in the first place.
Image: an example of external advertising in Crimea after masked Russian troops invaded the peninsula, and before the illegal “referendum” of 16 March 2014. The sign reads: “on March 16 we choose – [Crimea with swastika] or [Crimea with Russian flag]. Similar posters are on the territories of the so-called separatist “republics.”

http://euromaidanpress.com/seven-reasons/

[Brasscasing]

And in a handful of replies, you got a mod threat/edit, accusations of conspiracy sites and pollution with western propaganda. Here they will drown out your topic with white noise and/or find another way to make it go away.

Pffft, once again the propagandist has swept in with another hit and run post.

Finish the paragraph there Lord Haw-Haw...

...However, if you return to my place and post I guarantee you'll have a sympathetic ear.

...is what your random swipe is really suggesting.

I see you've moved from covert tactics to overtly beating the cyber bushes looking to reacquire members.  The ol' forum post count must be sliding, eh?

Oh, and please do deny you snipe other forum's members, I'd take some satisfaction in showing/proving that you do.

Brass

[The Natural]

Jay is again up to his copycat and stalking behaviour. Truly disturbing, but a good example of someone trying to drown any and all opposing viewpoints.
I'm beginning to Wonder if certain members here don't hold a normal job, With all the time they spend here. But then again, maybe that is their job!

Silly guy.  Can you imagine a coup d'etat in Russia in 2011?  Putin was a known entity (at least until 2014) and was someone that the US could do work with.  Change of government is ALWAYS a risk.  You and I have talked about this before and feel that the alternatives to Putin could be someone even worse.

I was widely published that Russia cracked Down on the western funded NGO's (Foreign agents). Washington was happy to work With Putin before he felt Russia was strong enough and ready to assert itself on the world stage and upset Washington's plans in Iran and Syria. Washington is happy to co-operate with any nation, as long as they do as told.

Yes, Putin is a moderate and we can all be very happy there's not a Hawk in charge in Moscow, we agree on that. But Washington probably felt they could contain the situation and get their man into Office, but The chances are slim now that they can't operate within the country freely and also that Putin is so popular.

 

[jone]

It was widely published that Russia cracked Down on the western funded NGO's (Foreign agents). Washington was happy to work With Putin before he felt Russia was strong enough and ready to assert itself on the world stage and upset Washington's plans in Iran and Syria. Washington is happy to co-operate with any nation, as long as they do as told.

Yes, Putin is a moderate and we can all be very happy there's not a Hawk in charge in Moscow, we agree on that. But Washington probably felt they could contain the situation and get their man into Office, but The chances are slim now that they can't operate within the country freely and also that Putin is so popular.

Oh, don't think that I agree that Putin is a moderate.  I just think he is a pragmatist.  Russia would have been much more successful with Medvedev in a second term.  But I do agree that Putin totally upstaged Obama on Syria.  Obama had his clown mask on.

[Muzh]

Don't know much about Manny's posts aside from what he posts here,  but I do know that YOU often post things packaged as indisputable truth but are actually only opinion.   Not always, but sometimes. 


I don't think Steamer or Manny have 'utter contempt' for Ukraine.


Fathertime!

LMAO


You really don't like strong-willed women, do you cupcake?

[Muzh]

I don't view Ukrainians With utter contempt! I view anyone (Ukrainian, American, Norwegain, etc) that support the war in Donbass, With utter contempt. See the difference?

Er..., you forgot to include your buddies, the Ruskies. 

[Muzh]

Actually YOU brought up Manny and his posting history after he made a remark on this thread.  Perhaps you have a beef with him. 


I seem to recall reading here before that posters should not talk about what is posted on other Russian discussion boards....That seems fair to me, as who knows what was posted elsewhere and in what context.  It would seem the wise thing to do would be address individual points that are brought up without name-calling...hence the conversation moves FORWARD rather than sideways or backwards. 


Fathertime!

This just sounds as if you were being cued on.


Nice. 

[Muzh]

According to you he has an utter contempt for Ukraine....I have my doubts.  Perhaps he will follow-up and say one way or another, and I will be proved wrong.  I tend to think he is merely voicing his opinion, which is more pro-Russian, anti-westernization.  I assume it is OK to come from that viewpoint, not everybody has to love everything about the west and what we do...there is definitely a grey area..


Fathertime!

Er..., Manny's words:


If you want to go on a sex trip, go to Ukraine. If you want to find a good wife, go to Russia.

[Muzh]

Hi Rainman,



Why so angry?  Are you drunken again, and is this your 'persona'? 


I like to hear from different perspectives, including what might be Manny's...Like many others, I certainly don't believe most of the ignorance YOU have written about on various topics. 


I don't know if that is supporting him in so much as at least hearing him, and this topic out.     


Fathertime!

Tsk, tsk


Didn't answered the question.


That's not nice.

[Muzh]

I think quite a few here think they must try to kill any other point in order for their point to remain standing.  Meanwhile they often sweep under the rug inconvenient truths, rather than allow the topics to be discussed in a normal way.

Fathertime!   

Oh? Like not answering questions and instead start ad hominem attacks?


(see above)

[Muzh]

The Zionist movement predates the Holocaust, and this is where Jews chose to emigrate.  At the time, Palestine was an outpost of the Ottoman Empire.  Herzl worked hard getting the Turks onside.  So, this is the place the Jews chose.

If people here don't know this, they should go back to school and take a few history lessons.

[Muzh]

Pffft, once again the propagandist has swept in with another hit and run post.

Finish the paragraph there Lord Haw-Haw...

...However, if you return to my place and post I guarantee you'll have a sympathetic ear.

...is what your random swipe is really suggesting.

I see you've moved from covert tactics to overtly beating the cyber bushes looking to reacquire members.  The ol' forum post count must be sliding, eh?

Oh, and please do deny you snipe other forum's members, I'd take some satisfaction in showing/proving that you do.

Brass

Ha Ha


Glad you said it as it was so obvious.

[Muzh]

Jay is again up to his copycat and stalking behaviour. Truly disturbing, but a good example of someone trying to drown any and all opposing viewpoints.
I'm beginning to Wonder if certain members here don't hold a normal job, With all the time they spend here. But then again, maybe that is their job!

Let me get this right.


You post your source of info and people rebuts your assertion and that is "drowning any and all opposition viewpoint?"


And instead of rebutting the statement, you engage in the same tactics you are decrying?


What a peach.

[Muzh]

Oh, don't think that I agree that Putin is a moderate.  I just think he is a pragmatist.  Russia would have been much more successful with Medvedev in a second term.  But I do agree that Putin totally upstaged Obama on Syria.  Obama had his clown mask on.

Putin is just staying alive. 

[fathertime]

LMAO


You really don't like strong-willed women, do you cupcake?

Er..., you forgot to include your buddies, the Ruskies. 

Er..., Manny's words:


If you want to go on a sex trip, go to Ukraine. If you want to find a good wife, go to Russia.

Ha Ha


Glad you said it as it was so obvious.

Let me get this right.


You post your source of info and people rebuts your assertion and that is "drowning any and all opposition viewpoint?"


And instead of rebutting the statement, you engage in the same tactics you are decrying?


What a peach.

Putin is just staying alive. 

If people here don't know this, they should go back to school and take a few history lessons.

I tallied up the value of all your posts here...I got zero...then I decided to tally again and it was less than zero.    Too bad, unless someone would like for the conversation to turn sideways rather than forward.


Fathertime!