"The Fat Woman Is So Sexy and Beautiful"

[Boethius]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19929.msg411953#msg411953

I am not apologizing to you and IMHO, you deserve no apology from me.  I responded to what you posted.

This is what you wrote:

While they pretend to be happy and pretend to consider themselves beautiful, it is unlikely they are really happy with their bodies.  One indicator is the extreme amount of tattooing several of them display.  In my untrained opinion, very few people happy with their looks resort to this level of body art. 

When I noted one individual who is very happy with his looks (this is known by anyone who knows anything about David Beckham), you basically denied making the statement.   Or rather, you backtracked on your original statement.  That is what Muzh was referring to, and I happen to agree with him.  No desperation.  Just how we see it.

If you posted your photo, I would not post that you are old looking, or unattractive.  But if you are going to post things I disagree with, I am going to respond.  Deal with it or don't address me.

[Boethius]

I'm just a shallow male - I don't do fat. Chunked up a bit with time or whatever post children, that's very 'nother thing but unnecessary fat, nope.

I don't think that is the issue.


Do I find those women's bodies beautiful?  No.  However, I don't believe it is my place to tell them what they should look like, mock them or express disgust, or comment on their health.  I wouldn't tell a smoker he is increasing his risk of heart disease, cancer, and that he stinks, either.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Do you actually think they are as happy to look like that as he is to look like he does?

Change is tough for everyone.  Especially changing behavior.  That is why people tend to change behavior when that behavior is more "painful" than the actual change.


You're speaking for yourself.  You wouldn't be happy being that large.  I also wouldn't be happy being that large.  Many people that are obese are not as unhappy as you imagine otherwise they would make the necessary changes to avoid that pain or as you say unhappiness.  They most likely understand it isn't a healthy ideal, but content with the way they are. 


Who are you or anyone else to tell them otherwise?

[SANDRO43]

That Rubens was rather unique, in the art world, in portraying fat women -

Not quite, Michelangelo's bodies in the Sistine Chapel - male and female - were also rather on the 'heavy' side :

[Boethius]

I agree with you, Sandro.  It was Slumba making that assertion.

[Miquel Westano]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19929.msg411953#msg411953

I am not apologizing to you and IMHO, you deserve no apology from me.  I responded to what you posted.

No kidding?  I was certain you would. 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19929.msg411953#msg411953

When I noted one individual who is very happy with his looks (this is known by anyone who knows anything about David Beckham), you basically denied making the statement.   Or rather, you backtracked on your original statement.  That is what Muzh was referring to, and I happen to agree with him.  No desperation.  Just how we see it.

Nope, I just copied exactly what I said.  I said I doubt those women were happy with their looks.  I said I based that on my opinion that most heavily tatted people are not.  The reason I commented on women was that the original post was on women.  The reason I said people is because I don't single out people by gender.  The original post was on women, so my comment was on them.  But clearly my basis of reference was on people in general.

I love the word basically.  It allows you the license to reword what I say.  But is just never stacks up against the word fact, or the true quote.  You keep using it, and I will keep just using quotes and facts.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19929.msg411953#msg411953

If you posted your photo, I would not post that you are old looking, or unattractive.  But if you are going to post things I disagree with, I am going to respond.  Deal with it or don't address me.

Unfortunately Bo, in one of your post, you stated you are free to post to whoever and to post whatever you want.  I think it may have been to brownbeard you said that, but I am not sure.  Now you see the rules apply both ways.  I too am free to post to whoever and to whatever I want.  I also am free to address you anytime I choose.  You are free to go back to not responding.

It's comical if you actually thought I expected you to apologize.  I assure you I would have expected the sun to rise in the West before I would expect you to admit you just took a cheap shot at me and then apologize for it. 

There is little doubt reading my entire comment on your example of a man 80lbs overweight who you say is the most energetic person you ever met of my intent.  I meant to say no reason and even a basic level reader would have caught that. 

Since you are some kind of lawyer, I know reading and understanding context, are skills you possess.  It was obvious you just wanted to make something of nothing.  Again unlike you, when I make an error I own up to it.  So once again, I apologize for my poor proofreading.  My comments on the other hand were legit, unbiased and based on personal observations.  Much like my observations of your post told me there was zero chance you would apologize.  But it did tickle me at the thought of you reading my request for one.  Have a nice day, Bo.

[Boethius]

I took no cheap shot at you.  You just don't like to have your views challenged.  Probably more so by a woman.


I also don't care whether or not you post to me, or how many whining you do in PM's about me.

[Boethius]

Change is tough for everyone.  Especially changing behavior.  That is why people tend to change behavior when that behavior is more "painful" than the actual change.


You're speaking for yourself.  You wouldn't be happy being that large.  I also wouldn't be happy being that large.  Many people that are obese are not as unhappy as you imagine otherwise they would make the necessary changes to avoid that pain or as you say unhappiness.  They most likely understand it isn't a healthy ideal, but content with the way they are. 


Who are you or anyone else to tell them otherwise?

It's an addiction.  But rather than being addicted to alcohol, or cocaine, or tobacco, the addiction is to food. 

One of the problems with a food addiction is that, unlike alcohol, tobacco, or drugs, the individual will still need to consume food in order to survive.

There's a good book on this, by Dr. David Kessler.  Dr. Kessler studied food addiction because he was overweight throughout his childhood, and as an adult.  He did end up losing weight, but once said he is one cookie away from sliding back to old habits.

http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Overeating-Insatiable-American/dp/1605294578


 

[Slumba]

That Rubens was rather unique, in the art world, in portraying fat women -


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19929.msg411802#msg411802

If you actually read what I wrote, instead of getting "triggered" at "Rubens was a chubby chaser":

Isolated, backwards tribes aside, the waist/hip ratios and other ratios that indicate beauty are remarkably similar across the centuries and between major cultures.

The Sistine Chapel image posted by Sandro shows mostly men, so I don't see that it supports your argument - though note that those men are not fat, just very stocky and muscled, the way I assume men who did hard physical labor all their lives, would have looked like back then.

You posted Beckham - in a pose strangely reminiscent of Michelangelo's Creation of Adam - you will note that the shoulder/hips ratio, V-shape etc. are remarkably similar to 2000s Beckham and that early 1500s painting.

No one is saying that fat women were never painted by anyone, that wasn't my argument at all - just that fat women (of the kind posted) were NEVER the standard of beauty.

Did you even use Google to look at any images of "odalisque paintings" by French or Italian masters?  Surely you know what an odalisque is, and that any painting of them would show them as being desirable - do any of them look like the girls in the photos?

[Boethius]

just that fat women (of the kind posted) were NEVER the standard of beauty.

I don't think anyone ever argued that they were, at least not in Western culture.  However, fat women, or at least Rubenesque women, were the standard of beauty in the past.

[Miquel Westano]

I took no cheap shot at you.  You just don't like to have your views challenged.  Probably more so by a woman.


I also don't care whether or not you post to me, or how many whining you do in PM's about me.

Ah yes you do, or you wouldn't peek. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

It's an addiction.  But rather than being addicted to alcohol, or cocaine, or tobacco, the addiction is to food. 

One of the problems with a food addiction is that, unlike alcohol, tobacco, or drugs, the individual will still need to consume food in order to survive.

There's a good book on this, by Dr. David Kessler.  Dr. Kessler studied food addiction because he was overweight throughout his childhood, and as an adult.  He did end up losing weight, but once said he is one cookie away from sliding back to old habits.

http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Overeating-Insatiable-American/dp/1605294578

Thanks Bo.  I will have to take a look at this.  It's an interesting topic to me since I have some large family members.  I do think there is a sort of oxytocin response to eating depending on what is being consumed.  While I always knew there is a food addiction for some people, it may be more widespread than I imagined.

[Boethius]

Lillian Russell, a popular singer and actress of the late 19th/early 20th century, considered a beauty -


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[BdHvA]

Odalisque means a servant or concubine. It has (I think) an Arabic background. Thus an odalisque can be young or old as well as thin or fat. It was a popular subject for artists in the 19th century but remains so for RWD readers today.

[Slumba]

Lillian Russell, a popular singer and actress of the late 19th/early 20th century, considered a beauty -


g" width="236" height="397">

Note the ratio of waist to hips, which is the point I am making.

To clear up any confusion:



0.70 , or thereabouts, has been the standard of beauty for 1000s of years.  And note, it correlates almost perfectly with excellent health, as well.

[Muzh]

Scientists find how obesity gene works, a clue to treatment

The discovery challenges the notion that "when people get obese it was basically their own choice because they choose to eat too much or not exercise," said study leader Melina Claussnitzer, a genetics specialist at Harvard-affiliated Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. "For the first time, genetics has revealed a mechanism in obesity that was not really suspected before" and gives a third explanation or factor that's involved.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/AP67cec7e35be14506ad51c79d4c53ad00

[SANDRO43]

Odalisque means a servant or concubine. It has (I think) an Arabic background.

Odalisque is the French adaptation of the Turkish Odalık, a concubine in a Turkish harem - particularly the Ottoman Sultan's -  originally "chambermaid" from oda ("chamber" or "room").

[SANDRO43]

Note the ratio of waist to hips, which is the point I am making.

You cannot rely on that photo as evidence, Counsel .

In those times, and earlier, women used to wear all sorts of contraptions to modify their silhouette - guépières, culs de Paris (below), etc.

[Muzh]

You cannot rely on that photo as evidence, Counsel .

In those times, and earlier, women used to wear all sorts of contraptions to modify their silhouette - guépières, culs de Paris (below), etc.

Actually, the picture in Slumba's post looks more of a metrosexual man from Gucci or Calvin Klein ads.

[Slumba]

You cannot rely on that photo as evidence, Counsel .

In those times, and earlier, women used to wear all sorts of contraptions to modify their silhouette - guépières, culs de Paris (below), etc.

They wore the contraptions to modify their silhouettes, *because* they were trying to get closer to the 0.70 waist / hip ratio.

[BdHvA]

While not 100% certain the image seems to be from G. Boldini. Perhaps some should post some works by C. Helleu to bolster there opinions.

Note even though from almost a 100 years ago these are not work place approiate images.

On the other side of the Atlantic we have the Gibson girl.

[Larry1]

Wow!  For the metric folks 910 pounds is 413 kgs.

Often when you hear of cases like this where people are too big to fit through their door they cut a piece out of the wall of their houses.

A 910-pound woman had to be rescued through the window of her second-floor Harlem apartment Friday afternoon after suffering from an undisclosed medical condition, authorities said.

The woman, 70, was hoisted in a large yellow net by FDNY paramedics from her Fifth Avenue home and rushed to St. Luke’s Hospital, where she was listed in stable condition.

“Firemen came down and measured the elevator door,” the building doorman said. “She would not have been able to get out of the door.” Firefighters tried to take her through her apartment door before opting for the window.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/22/fdny-rescue-910-pound-woman-through-apartment-window/

There is a photo of the operation at the link.

[fathertime]

Wow!  For the metric folks 910 pounds is 413 kgs.

Often when you hear of cases like this where people are too big to fit through their door they cut a piece out of the wall of their houses.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/22/fdny-rescue-910-pound-woman-through-apartment-window/

There is a photo of the operation at the link.

Sweet Jesus!  I didn't know it was possible to be 910 pounds and still alive at age 70.  She must be a miracle woman or something.


Fathertime!   

[Miquel Westano]

Wow!  For the metric folks 910 pounds is 413 kgs.

Often when you hear of cases like this where people are too big to fit through their door they cut a piece out of the wall of their houses.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/22/fdny-rescue-910-pound-woman-through-apartment-window/

There is a photo of the operation at the link.

I wonder if her health insurance covers the cost of this, the taxpayers have to cover it or if she has to pay it herself?  I always wonder when people put themselves in a situation requiring some major rescue who pays for their error in judgment? 

If you climb mountains, sail oceans by yourself or gain so much weight the FD has to haul you out of a building with a crane, I think you should absorb that cost yourself and not pass it on to others. But I really think it gets passed back to other policy holders or to the tax payers. 

I can't imagine ever letting myself get into this kind of condition. I could see slowing down and getting fat with advanced age.  But, never getting to be this big.  I don't even see how the human body could get this large?

[Larry1]

I read about these massively fat people from time to time. I did a quick search and found an article briefly discussing some of them:

Paul Mason, a 50-year-old man from England was once considered the world's fattest man at 980 lbs. but he recently underwent gastric bypass surgery and already is down to 560 lbs. He says his 20,000 calorie-a- day diet is what attributed to his extreme size, but he also blames Britain's national health service for not allowing him to see an eating disorder specialist when he was just over 400 lbs

Donna Simpson (born 1967) is an American woman who, in 2008, expressed a desire to become one of the world's heaviest women. She wished to attain a target weight of 1,000 pounds (450 kg). As of June 2010, Simpson weighed 602 pounds (273 kg), down from her weight of 630 pounds (290 kg) in 2008. During the process, Simpson maintained a website where fans paid to watch her eat. In 2010, she won the Guinness World Records for the "Heaviest woman to give birth." In August 2011, Simpson decided to go on a diet to reduce her weight to a target of 370 pounds (170 kg) in order to become more self-sufficient and be able to do a better job of raising her children.

http://www.oddee.com/item_98150.aspx

Fans paid to watch her eat? Wow. Note that her goal was to reach 1,000 pounds (455 kgs).

By the way - don't click on that link unless you're willing to see photos of these people.