The Russian/Syrian connection thread

[2tallbill]

Russia concerned about ISIS air force

Russia sent antiaircraft missiles to Syria
Associated Press

Russia has sent antiaircraft missiles to Syria to safeguard its jets involved in airstrikes
against militants in the war-battered Arab country, the commander of the Russian Air
Force was quoted as saying Thursday.



read about it here
http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-sent-anti-aircraft-missiles-to-syria-2015-11

[2tallbill]

Russia's Syria force grows to 4,000, U.S. officials say
BY JONATHAN LANDAY, PHIL STEWART AND MARK HOSENBALL Reuters



read all about it here
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/05/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-idUSKCN0ST2G020151105#CIhKKKt3Ryobr5sV.97

[2tallbill]

[2tallbill]

War by proxy: How Syria could get even worse than it is now


By David Ignatius

Read more at http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1115/ignatius110515.php3#juFv7x1q4hwBAr0b.99

[2tallbill]

Iran, Saudi Arabia clash inside Syria talks
By Josh Rogin The Jewish World Review

Read more at http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1115/rogin110515.php3#76T2yWpCEt1mSYsb.99

[Anotherkiwi]

Russia's Syria force grows to 4,000, U.S. officials say

Wow!  So their force in Syria is now about a third of the number they have in Ukraine! How many Westerners have any idea of the comparative numbers?

[fathertime]

 If it is now suddenly 'unclear'...I'm wagering that it was the 'rebels', just as is being suggested now....if it was even possibly Assad, the US representatives would be accusing Assad....the fact that they say nothing tells me the truth which is that the 'rebels' are using chemical weapons.  And we think that arming them and taking their side is important...




 [size=78%]http://news.yahoo.com/mustard-gas-used-syria-fighting-august-chemical-watchdog-194704844.html[/size]


Mustard gas use in Syria conflict confirmed


Beirut (AFP) - Mustard gas was used during summer fighting in Syria but it was not clear by whom, the global chemical weapons watchdog said Thursday, while jihadists seized a key town from regime forces.

The deadly gas was used in the flashpoint town of Marea in the northern province of Aleppo on August 21, a source from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) told AFP.

"We have determined the facts, but we have not determined who was responsible," the source said.

Allegations that jihadist militants have been using chemical arms have been increasing in recent months in both Iraq and Syria....

[Brasscasing]

Not surprisingly MSF has issued a Press Release clearing themselves of any wrong doing in the US bombing of the hospital facility in Kunduz.

http://kunduz.msf.org/pdf/20151030_kunduz_review_EN.pdf

Probably mean the US and Afghani investigations found something.

Brass

[jone]

Putin suspends flights to Egypt.  Making arrangements to get Russian nationals out of Egypt.  Still investigating cause of crash. 

I was talking with my woman on the phone when this came across.  She could not make the link that Russia just admitted that it was a bomb that took out the plane.  I love my woman to pieces.  But she has insular thinking just like most of the Russian population.

My guess is that Russia will not admit it was a bomb for another couple of months.

But I can guarantee that there will be retaliation attacks on ISIS.

[jone]

Not surprisingly MSF has issued a Press Release clearing themselves of any wrong doing in the US bombing of the hospital facility in Kunduz.

http://kunduz.msf.org/pdf/20151030_kunduz_review_EN.pdf

Probably mean the US and Afghani investigations found something.

Brass

It is still a dramatic incursion.  Wiping out a hospital, I hope that the US has evidence that can't be refuted that proves that the hospital was used for something other than care giving.  Otherwise the decision makers should be brought to justice. 

[jone]

One other thought that I have:

If you look at those pictures in the report, you can see how accurate the US bombs are.  It is evident, that for whatever reason, the US intended to take out that hospital and did so.

[Brasscasing]

One other thought that I have:

If you look at those pictures in the report, you can see how accurate the US bombs are.  It is evident, that for whatever reason, the US intended to take out that hospital and did so.

Accuracy counts. It'll be terrible if the investigation(s) determine the pilot had been aiming for a building down the road and hit the hospital.

Brass

[SANDRO43]

Not surprisingly MSF has issued a Press Release clearing themselves of any wrong doing in the US bombing of the hospital facility in Kunduz.

What on earth do you mean by "clearing themselves of any wrong doing" ? Their hospital was BOMBED and MACHINE-GUNNED, resulting in 30 deaths so far !

MSF and Emergency, a similar Italian non-profit medical organisation, have medical facilities in many war zones, and have always declared that they treat ANY wounded seeking help, regardless of political/religious affiliations.

[Brasscasing]

What on earth do you mean by "clearing themselves of any wrong doing" ? Their hospital was BOMBED and MACHINE-GUNNED, resulting in 30 deaths so far !

...That Doctor's Without Borders incident...It smells to high heaven. It's already been established there were Taliban in the building....

..."In a news conference here in the Afghan capital, Doctors Without Borders officials reiterated that they think the hospital’s main building was “deliberately” targeted because it was the only structure hit during the bombardment. They denied that any Taliban fighters in the hospital were armed or using it as a base."...

..."In the aftermath of the bombing, which killed at least 22 people, some Afghan leaders have suggested that the hospital had become a command center for Taliban fighters who seized control of Kunduz on Sept. 28."...

..."Hospital officials denied that assertion Thursday, although they conceded that they had been treating wounded Taliban fighters, some of whom probably were in the building at the time of the attack. They said Taliban fighters were cared for in the same manner as other patients in accordance with international law designating hospitals as “noncombatant” zones."

Mistakes do happen but my experience with these organizations (like MSF) tells me they're going to try and blame the US regardless of what the actual circumstances were and they're really pushing this 'war crimes' angle - It's a bit too political in nature and quite frankly OTT. Seems to me this organization is leaning a bit towards sympathy for the Taliban.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/u-s-gunship-made-five-passes-over-afghan-hospital-despite-9-foot-flags-iding-it-as-a-medical-facility-msf

...As usual the apologist-in-chief was quick to accept US culpability for the incident. However, I'm going to reserve judgment until the investigation(s) are complete...

MSF and Emergency, a similar Italian non-profit medical organisation, have medical facilities in many war zones, and have always declared that they treat ANY wounded seeking help, regardless of political/religious affiliations.

... At this point I'm not convinced this was a mistake in that the pilot bombed/strafed the building without cause.

There were Taliban in the building and hospital compound. If the pilot was taking small arms fire from the building/compound he would have been justified in returning fire.

Doctors Without Borders have admitted there were Taliban fighters in the building but state they weren't armed. I find this hard to believe. Taliban don't just surrender their weapons in a building also occupied with Government soldiers in the middle of a firefight (that took Kunduz). It smells.

It would not be in DWB's best interest to admit they were allowing Taliban use of their compound/building as a safe haven to conduct military operations. That's why we have conflicting reports as to what actually happened.

I note that everyone talking about this incident refer to 'all those Doctors killed' (including yourself), in fact, there were no actual DWB 'Doctors' in the building at the time, they were all 'local' staffers. Edit: This is relevant in that anyone who's served in the Middle East knows that the 'locals' will not enforce the 'Regs', so to speak, when they're confronted with an armed terrorist who's also local and knows where you and your family live. Hell, they might even be related.

Not that I believe someone's profession or where they were born makes their lives any less/more important but there are a lot of assumptions being made by the media as to who exactly the casualties were, what the Taliban were doing in the building in the first place and whether or not it was nine casualties, 37 casualties, staffers, patients etc....

Some updated reporting on the incident...

The U.S. Investigation Into The Kunduz Hospital Bombing Is Off To A Rough Start

..."Any investigation will need to investigate why the U.S. military targeted the hospital and whether it was aware it risked killing innocent aid workers and Afghans seeking medical treatment. Conflicting explanations on this matter have emerged. Campbell suggested last week that Afghan forces had asked for the strike, a disturbing allegation given previous evidence of Afghanistan mistreating Doctors Without Borders.

The Associated Press reported Thursday that U.S. special operations analysts had been looking into the hospital prior to the attack because they believed a spy from Pakistan -- whose military has links to the Taliban insurgency fighting the Afghan government -- was using the facility to work with the Taliban. The AP report was unable to confirm whether the American officials who launched the strike were aware of the analysts' suspicions."...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/msf-hospital_5620fa51e4b06462a13ba11f

In amongst the complaints and accusations by MSF a pattern is starting to emerge.

Information like this (my bolded) is what the three investigation teams will be looking at. The rest of the article is reporting on the politicking that is ever present with incidents such as this.

I'll reiterate though that regardless of what the investigations determine the US will be perceived to be at fault. They always are.

It's been my opinion for decades these organizations should not be allowed to function inside theatres of operations. They're habitually obstructionist towards US/NATO/UN forces and if something does go wrong (usually as a result of being where they shouldn't have been) they're the loudest to complain.

They're more trouble for our military forces working in country than their worth.

Brass

[BillyB]

It's been my opinion for decades these organizations should not be allowed to function inside theatres of operations. They're habitually obstructionist towards US/NATO/UN forces and if something does go wrong (usually as a result of being where they shouldn't have been) they're the loudest to complain.

I'm okay with people volunteering to help as long as they don't complain about getting harmed when getting in harm's way. Since Russia's actions in Syria, they've hit 9 medical facilities and not much world criticism for those actions. I don't know all the details but its always possible that the men Russian's are targeting are in those facilities. Some groups don't play by rules in war. They hide in churches, hospitals, and schools hoping the enemy will not shoot or shoot someone innocent.

[mendeleyev]

This was a sticky subject from WWII (Great Patriotic War) in that Germany was a signer of the Geneva Convention agreement on treatment of prisoners (1929-1930), but the Soviet Union had refused at least in part because Stalin's Gulag camps were a violation of international law given that there were many nationalities residing in those camps.

During the war, it was common for both sides to shoot, or ignore, the enemy wounded. Both countries felt that they were above the law.

[SANDRO43]

They're more trouble for our military forces working in country than their worth.

But not to the victims of what those military forces hypocritically term "collateral damage" .

[Brasscasing]

But not to the victims of what those military forces hypocritically term "collateral damage" .

Unfortunately, collateral damage has been part and parcel of combat since the inception of organized warfare.

Now, if you're suggesting western militaries engage targets without regard for non-combatants or minimizing collateral damage? You'd be wrong.

In this case if the Taliban were using a hospital facility as a base of operations or to fire on a US jet would not they be the ones placing non-combatants in harms way?

Is there no condemnation for the insurgents who attacked Kunduz in the first place creating the circumstances that led to this incident?

These various humanitarian organizations and aid groups have their purpose in post conflict countries and areas suffering from natural disasters. So your comment has some merit in that treating the indigenous sick and injured is a worthwhile endeavor...However, not at the expense of our service personnel's lives.

Brass







 

[SANDRO43]

In this case if the Taliban were using a hospital facility as a base of operations or to fire on a US jet

We'll see if the investigation(s) will provide any proof of that .

[deccie]

Not surprisingly MSF has issued a Press Release clearing themselves of any wrong doing in the US bombing of the hospital facility in Kunduz.

http://kunduz.msf.org/pdf/20151030_kunduz_review_EN.pdf

Probably mean the US and Afghani investigations found something.

Brass

WOW, that is a heck of an assumption to make!

Gee, by your comments Brasscasing you would think Abu Ghraib and the US Forces pissing on corpses never happened....

[deccie]

We'll see if the investigation(s) will provide any proof of that .

MSF have called for an investigation by neutral parties. The US is not agreeing. Wonder why...

[deccie]

Interesting comparison between the US bombing of the MSF hospital where photos and video emerged of the damage and the US won't even name the hospitals they have accused Russia of damaging.

[deccie]

Unfortunately, collateral damage has been part and parcel of combat since the inception of organized warfare.

Except sometimes civilians get targeted EXPLICITLY - such as the fire bombing of Dresden. That was by no means collateral damage.

Now, if you're suggesting western militaries engage targets without regard for non-combatants or minimizing collateral damage? You'd be wrong.

Peeing on bodies mininizes collateral damage?

In this case if the Taliban were using a hospital facility as a base of operations or to fire on a US jet would not they be the ones placing non-combatants in harms way?

MSF does not agree with your assertion.

Is there no condemnation for the insurgents who attacked Kunduz in the first place creating the circumstances that led to this incident?

Of course there is. But where does one crime excuse another by the other party? Is that part of International law of warfare?

These various humanitarian organizations and aid groups have their purpose in post conflict countries and areas suffering from natural disasters. So your comment has some merit in that treating the indigenous sick and injured is a worthwhile endeavor...However, not at the expense of our service personnel's lives.

So we hang people of the basis of attacks on hospital ships yet an attack on a hospital itself is excusable? Your logic double take is quite astounding. And I suspect the civilians saved by MSF would not agree with your assertions.
No one else cares for them after all.

[deccie]

Unfortunately, collateral damage has been part and parcel of combat since the inception of organized warfare.

Now, if you're suggesting western militaries engage targets without regard for non-combatants or minimizing collateral damage? You'd be wrong.

My Lai -  Was that a legitimate target Brass?

[fathertime]

Gee Whiz, what a 'surprise'...more US troops going to Syria.  If they say it is possible, it has either already happened covertly, or pretty much a sure thing that it will. Lets see how many more hospitals we can bomb, in order to forward OUR own 'important' interests at the expense of the Syrians, whatever they may be....obviously we aren't doing this to any other purpose.     
More US Troops Possible in Syria, Defense Sec. Ash Carter Says

Just days after the White House announced that President Obama had authorized the deployment of a small contingent of special operations forces to the war-torn country of Syria, Secretary of Defense Ash Carter said more American troops could "absolutely" be sent into the country if the United States can find more "capable" local forces to partner with in the fight against ISIS.
http://gma.yahoo.com/more-us-troops-possible-syria-defense-sec-ash-180524236.html




Fathertime!