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Author Topic: The Russian/Syrian connection thread  (Read 117409 times)

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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1000 on: February 19, 2018, 07:59:27 AM »
More FT obuscation

Fess up man - you're busted and you know it..

1/ NOT as you claimed by the UN. - you'll know the feelings of the then UN Sec Gen, by now - I've pointed them out to you 3 times, already - such is your obstinance to fact when presented


I said a "UN delegation"  I was incorrect, it was an international delegation. 

I've known right along the elections were shaky, that is how elections are in many nations. 


You knew b all about the Al-ASSad dynasty and 'moderate' was an aspiration the west hoped for - under Al-ASSad mark II... sadly, it has become clear that his advisers were more concerned about not being arrested by a victorious democratic movement - oppression it from the get go with unreasonable and disproportionate force .
 

IF the west had imposed a no-fly zone - it is likely Al-ASSad  and his cronies would have gone .. 



Had the west had attempted a no fly zone, we can't say for sure what the result would have been.  The war would have likely been wider, and involved many of the world powers is what I think. 

It just isn't our place to try to force out Assad.  Our involvement perpetuates problems, and I think that is the intent. 

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Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1001 on: February 19, 2018, 10:07:55 AM »

Had the west had attempted a no fly zone, we can't say for sure what the result would have been.  The war would have likely been wider, and involved many of the world powers is what I think. 


That's because you have no balls at all.   A no fly zone would not have led to war and would likely have  reduced the number of Syrian casualties and refugees.   

There is more.  As stated in much earlier posts in this thread, a crisis developed in 2013 when Assad  used chemical weapons against the rebels, thus  crossing Obama's red line.   Putin bluffed Obama into not bombing Assad even though I showed in my posts the  Russian Navy told Putin they could not defeat the US Navy in the Med.  Obama's weakness emboldened Putin, who already felt untouchable after Bush did little when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.  So Putin felt free to take an even more aggressive step -  he seized Crimea from Ukraine in early 2014.   

At least in regard to Crimea, the West hit Russia with sanctions.  Noteworthy, upon being hit with sanctions, the Russian government started its program to interfere in the US elections.

When do you believe we should stand up to Putin?  When they take military control of the future Artic shipping lanes?   Never? 

No one likes war, but there comes a time when one has to take a stand.  If not, tyrants will push you again and again. 

Offline ML

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Attack on US forces led by former Russian Marine
« Reply #1002 on: February 19, 2018, 10:43:29 AM »
Maybe this duplicates something already posted by others.

Wagner’s failed attack on US forces in Syria ‘led by former Russian Marine officer’

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/wagners-failed-attack-us-forces-syria-led-former-russian-marine-officer.html
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Offline alex330

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Re: Attack on US forces led by former Russian Marine
« Reply #1003 on: February 19, 2018, 10:59:11 AM »
Maybe this duplicates something already posted by others.

Wagner’s failed attack on US forces in Syria ‘led by former Russian Marine officer’

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/wagners-failed-attack-us-forces-syria-led-former-russian-marine-officer.html

It sounds like they were launching an attack on our positions to retake the refinery. Most of the guys killed were career mercenaries that fought in Chechnya and were the "Little Green Men" in Crimea and Donbass. We basically took out most of Putins battle hardened mercs in this strike.


Edit - Now would be the time for Ukraine to make an aggressive push into the East to retake land.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 11:04:36 AM by alex330 »

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1004 on: February 19, 2018, 02:03:02 PM »
That's because you have no balls at all.   A no fly zone would not have led to war and would likely have  reduced the number of Syrian casualties and refugees.   


Not only do you lack balls, but also lack the wisdom to make a good judgement as it pertains to wars or individuals.  I think ultimately a no fly zone would have created a larger and unnecessary war, in a place where we are not wanted.   


When do you believe we should stand up to Putin?  When they take military control of the future Artic shipping lanes?   Never? 

No one likes war, but there comes a time when one has to take a stand.  If not, tyrants will push you again and again. 

I don't think we need to 'stand up' to Putin.   It is more like more nations need to stand up to the US. We are the ones doing as much pushing as anyone, probably more.  Due to our wealth, we can afford tactics that are sometimes less barbaric but it is still us pushing.  It is only those that are willfully blind that can't see it. 

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Offline jone

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1005 on: February 19, 2018, 02:43:48 PM »
On Al Jazeera today, apparently Assad's forces are to join the Kurds in throwing back the Turkish army in a cross the border incursion to punish the Kurds in Afrin.  Hungary is emphatic that if such support is provided, that there will be war between the two countries.  However, Assad cannot claim control of his state if he cannot demonstrate control over this area.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/turkey-denies-reports-syria-ypg-afrin-180219200244851.html

This could be a problematic escalation.   Moreover, the faction of the Kurdish resistance which is joining with the Syrian forces is also the same faction that is currently supported by the Americans.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 04:29:37 PM by jone »
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Offline JayH

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1006 on: February 19, 2018, 02:59:54 PM »
That's because you have no balls at all.   A no fly zone would not have led to war and would likely have  reduced the number of Syrian casualties and refugees.   

There is more.  As stated in much earlier posts in this thread, a crisis developed in 2013 when Assad  used chemical weapons against the rebels, thus  crossing Obama's red line.   Putin bluffed Obama into not bombing Assad even though I showed in my posts the  Russian Navy told Putin they could not defeat the US Navy in the Med.  Obama's weakness emboldened Putin, who already felt untouchable after Bush did little when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.  So Putin felt free to take an even more aggressive step -  he seized Crimea from Ukraine in early 2014.   

At least in regard to Crimea, the West hit Russia with sanctions.  Noteworthy, upon being hit with sanctions, the Russian government started its program to interfere in the US elections.

When do you believe we should stand up to Putin?  When they take military control of the future Artic shipping lanes?   Never? 

No one likes war, but there comes a time when one has to take a stand.  If not, tyrants will push you again and again.

I agree with the general tenor of your post.

One point -- "Noteworthy, upon being hit with sanctions, the Russian government started its program to interfere in the US elections."
It got into gear in 2012 when Putin was re elected  . Most probably had been on Putin's agenda for some time before that. The explosion of the internet in the period prior to 2012 gave access to a means only dreamt of in earlier times.
The success of the program in Ukraine ( by sowing considerable confusion) saw the program expanded  .
It is interesting how the right to extreme right in the US seem intent on ignoring /downplaying the significance of that interference in the US.
My point--it was not the sanctions as such that led to the Russian policy- it was already in gear prior to that.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1007 on: February 19, 2018, 04:31:55 PM »
On Al Jazeera today, apparently Assad's forces are to join the Kurds in throwing back the Hungarian army in a cross the border incursion to punish the Kurds in Afrin.  Hungary is emphatic that if such support is provided, that there will be war between the two countries.  However, Assad cannot claim control of his state if he cannot demonstrate control over this area.


I think you meant Turkish army, not Hungarian army. 

The Kurd lands  in and around Afrin area are not contiguous with the Kurd homelands in eastern Syria.  Thje Afrin region also contains Turkmen tribes who are more allied with Turkey than Syria (Russia was bombing the Turkmen rebels when Turkish jets shot down a Russian jet earky in Russia's involvement).  The area is akin to a mini-Balkans. 

This would be an escalation.

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1008 on: February 19, 2018, 04:42:26 PM »
Not only do you lack balls, but also lack the wisdom to make a good judgement as it pertains to wars or individuals.  I think ultimately a no fly zone would have created a larger and unnecessary war, in a place where we are not wanted.

Unlike you I gave an analysis of why this would not lead to larger war.  Where is your analysis of why it would lead to larger war. 


How many Syrians would have been saved if Syria could not bomb rebel positions?  Another way of pahrasing this is to ask how many Syrians were killed, injured or made homeless  by barrel bombs?   

 
Quote
I don't think we need to 'stand up' to Putin.   It is more like more nations need to stand up to the US. We are the ones doing as much pushing as anyone, probably more.  Due to our wealth, we can afford tactics that are sometimes less barbaric but it is still us pushing.  It is only those that are willfully blind that can't see it. 




This suggests that you believe the US is a greater threat to world stability than Russia.  If true, I am stunned.  Folks we have found someone working for the Russian troll factory and doing it wittingly.  Someone report it to Mueller.     
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 04:44:33 PM by Gator »

Offline jone

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1009 on: February 19, 2018, 05:07:52 PM »
I think you meant Turkish army, not Hungarian army. 

How did you catch that.  I thought I had changed it before anyone could quote it.   I always get Hungry when someone mentions Turkey. 

In any event, while the areas are somewhat disparate (most of the Kurds living in North Eastern Syria) there is a possibility that the Kurds working with the Syrian Army, in and around Afrin, could still impact the US support for the Kurds living in Eastern Syria.  What happens if the US supports the Kurds in Eastern Syria while the Turks are at war with them in Western Syria?  Turkey is a member of NATO.  And, it could then be said that the US is supporting an escalation of war against a NATO nation.
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1010 on: February 19, 2018, 05:57:07 PM »
a crisis developed in 2013 when Assad  used chemical weapons against the rebels, thus  crossing Obama's red line.   Putin bluffed Obama into not bombing Assad even though I showed in my posts the  Russian Navy told Putin they could not defeat the US Navy in the Med.  Obama's weakness emboldened Putin



Putin also read Sec of State, Hillary's unsecured emails probably stating they would not challenge Russia if Russia got involved in Syria. He knew the Obama administration wouldn't challenge his entry into the war. Obama spent half a billion dollars to train and arm rebels. It was almost a good investment since there was a time where it was thought Assad would topple even with Obama's minimal help but Russia came to the rescue of Assad. If Obama did more and gave the impression he'll put a hurt on anybody that tries to stop him, Assad may have fallen, lives would be saved and there wouldn't be a massive refugee problem we and the rest of the free world would have to pay for. Too little, too late.
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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1011 on: February 19, 2018, 06:12:13 PM »
Unlike you I gave an analysis of why this would not lead to larger war.  Where is your analysis of why it would lead to larger war. 


How many Syrians would have been saved if Syria could not bomb rebel positions?  Another way of pahrasing this is to ask how many Syrians were killed, injured or made homeless  by barrel bombs?   

I don't agree with your speculative analysis, it is not a requirement for me to give a detailed speculative analysis to disagree with yours.  In a broad stroke, I don't think Russia would have stood idle had we started to get more aggressive. 



This suggests that you believe the US is a greater threat to world stability than Russia.  If true, I am stunned.  Folks we have found someone working for the Russian troll factory and doing it wittingly.  Someone report it to Mueller.     
 
At this moment in time, at LEAST as big a threat which shouldn't be of any surprise.  Plenty of others think the same thing.     Why would Mueller need to investigate people with this veiw?    Why must people fall in line with what the US is doing abroad?  Sounds like you would like to stifle such views.

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Offline alex330

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1012 on: February 19, 2018, 06:22:32 PM »
I don't think Russia would have stood idle had we started to get more aggressive. 

We just took out some of their best forces and they are sitting idle.

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1013 on: February 19, 2018, 06:30:15 PM »
We just took out some of their best forces and they are sitting idle.
Without knowing all the details that may be true, and it may or may not have been a situation where we unintentionally targeted them.   Perhaps they are biding their time for now, but if indeed we targeted and killed a bunch of Russians, I'd expect some  retaliation when the opportunity arises, doesn't have to be today or tomorrow. 

Fathertime!   
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1014 on: February 19, 2018, 07:59:56 PM »
t if indeed we targeted and killed a bunch of Russians, I'd expect some  retaliation when the opportunity arises, doesn't have to be today or tomorrow. 



Two months ago Putin announces mission in Syria is accomplished and orders the withdrawal of troops. There's not supposed to be any Russian troops left in Syria and if there are, there should be no activity from them since the Russian mission is accomplished and over. With the election next month, Russian citizens can feel comfortable voting for Putin now since he got the job done in Syria and pulled out it's troops with minimal casualties. Of course all this good news is happening right before an election. What a coincidence.


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/11/vladimir-putin-orders-russian-forces-to-start-pulling-out-of-syria.html
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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1015 on: February 19, 2018, 08:07:09 PM »

Two months ago Putin announces mission in Syria is accomplished and orders the withdrawal of troops. There's not supposed to be any Russian troops left in Syria and if there are, there should be no activity from them since the Russian mission is accomplished and over. With the election next month, Russian citizens can feel comfortable voting for Putin now since he got the job done in Syria and pulled out it's troops with minimal casualties. Of course all this good news is happening right before an election. What a coincidence.


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/11/vladimir-putin-orders-russian-forces-to-start-pulling-out-of-syria.html

before we cast too many stones elsewhere, look at how Donald J. Trump's truth meter stacks up on Politifact: 



http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/   
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1016 on: February 19, 2018, 08:37:45 PM »
before we cast too many stones elsewhere, look at how Donald J. Trump's truth meter stacks up on Politifact: 



http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/   

Politfact is a liberal mouthpiece.  Look at the origins of it.  It is like asking FOXNEWS how often Hillary tells the truth.

Nonetheless, I agree that Trump has a way of looking at things askew from the rest of reality.
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1017 on: February 19, 2018, 08:53:11 PM »
Nonetheless, I agree that Trump has a way of looking at things askew from the rest of reality.
He just flat out lies.  He knows it doesn't matter very much, so it is calculated in a rough way.  Our society has allowed him to get away with it...while many encourage him to continue or even repeat things they know are lies as if they are facts.   This is partially why we are so 'exceptional' here in the USA! 

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1018 on: February 19, 2018, 08:55:38 PM »
before we cast too many stones elsewhere, look at how Donald J. Trump's truth meter stacks up on Politifact: 


Politifact is owned by the Tampa Bay Times. They haven't endorsed a Republican candidate at the state or federal level this century. Politifact almost always claim Republicans are lying and they rarely claim a Democrat is lying. The media has been cruel to Trump making up stories on him yet they feel qualified in making these "independent" sites that know what is and what isn't true. What honest journalist is so well respected that people elected him/her to Congress? I don't think highly of most journalists either. They care less about truth and more about the entertainment value of their work so they can get people reading.
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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1019 on: February 19, 2018, 09:16:03 PM »
Politifact is owned by the Tampa Bay Times. They haven't endorsed a Republican candidate at the state or federal level this century. Politifact almost always claim Republicans are lying and they rarely claim a Democrat is lying. The media has been cruel to Trump making up stories on him yet they feel qualified in making these "independent" sites that know what is and what isn't true. What honest journalist is so well respected that people elected him/her to Congress? I don't think highly of most journalists either. They care less about truth and more about the entertainment value of their work so they can get people reading.

More liberal bias.  It seems any that publication/website that doesn't agree with the conservative view on certain issues is considered biased by conservatives.  I took a close look at some of the statements Trump has made that politifact considered to be lies....and they actually were lies.    Liberal, conservative, or in the middle, a lie is a lie, and Trump has told some whoopers, so I'm not sure we need to worry about Putin's lies when we have Trump. 

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1020 on: February 19, 2018, 09:22:38 PM »
It seems any that publication/website that doesn't agree with the conservative view on certain issues is considered biased by conservatives. 



When a "truth" website never endorses Republicans and always endorse Democrats, they are bias. I don't need a conservative website to tell me that. Trump lies a lot because the liberal media says he lies a lot. To me that means Trump doesn't lie a lot. I do not have faith the media owns the truth and I don't think they are qualified to judge Trump because they have an agenda against him.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 09:32:45 PM by BillyB »
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1021 on: February 19, 2018, 09:46:03 PM »

When a "truth" website never endorses Republicans and always endorse Democrats, they are bias. I don't need a conservative website to tell me that. Trump lies a lot because the liberal media says he lies a lot. To me that means Trump doesn't lie a lot. I do not have faith the media owns the truth and I don't think they are qualified to judge Trump because they have an agenda against him.

Here is a link to some of Trump's lies.  It is good to keep them all organized.   
I noticed that the lie of the year a few years back was one from Obama, so I don't think the site is that biased.
We shouldn't ignore our own lies while/before we call out other lies 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/pants-fire/ 
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1022 on: February 19, 2018, 10:06:39 PM »

Here is a link to some of Trump's lies. 



I don't have time to address all the politifact crap but lets take the first one since it's been in recent news "Donald Trump falsely says he never denied Russian meddling"

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/feb/19/donald-trump/donald-trump-falsely-denies-he-denied-russian-medd/

Can you show me anywhere on the internet where he denies Russian meddling of the elections based on Muellers recent revelations of Russia's activities on social media?

Trump denies collusion. He said it may be Russia, China or a 400lb man hacking into Hillary's emails. Because Trump said that in the past, Politifact is claiming Trump lied but Trump didn't lie. Trump has never denied Russia being involved in meddling. He only denies collusion with Russia and he was always open to Russia possibly being involved with the meddling.

Politifact says "During an overseas trip to Asia in November 2017, Trump spoke of his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. A reporter asked how Trump brought up the issue of Russian meddling in the U.S. election."Every time he sees me, he says, ‘I didn't do that,’ " Trump said. "And I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it."
While politifact is reporting truth, they are leaving out truth so their truth is a lie. I remember that time and all the irresponsible journalism that came out giving us the impression Trump is believing every word Putin says. In the link below is responsible journalism where Fox News actually reported everything Trump said pertaining to his meeting with Putin and Trump said "
As to whether I believe it, I'm with our agencies,” the president added. “As currently led by fine people, I believe very much in our intelligence agencies.”[/color]

[/size]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/12/trump-says-stands-with-us-intel-agencies-on-russian-meddling.html

[/color]Currently, as you been reading, the mainstream media is claiming Trump never believed Russia was involved with the meddling of our elections but I remember a few times he admitted it was Russians. So the media and Politifact is lying to you, not Trump.



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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1023 on: February 19, 2018, 10:08:38 PM »


I don't have time to address all the politifact crap but lets take the first one since it's been in recent news "Donald Trump falsely says he never denied Russian meddling"

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/feb/19/donald-trump/donald-trump-falsely-denies-he-denied-russian-medd/

Can you show me anywhere on the internet where he denies Russian meddling of the elections based on Muellers recent revelations of Russia's activities on social media?

Trump denies collusion. He said it may be Russia, China or a 400lb man hacking into Hillary's emails. Because Trump said that in the past, Politifact is claiming Trump lied but Trump didn't lie. Trump has never denied Russia being involved in meddling. He only denies collusion with Russia and he was always open to Russia possibly being involved with the meddling.

Politifact says "During an overseas trip to Asia in November 2017, Trump spoke of his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. A reporter asked how Trump brought up the issue of Russian meddling in the U.S. election."Every time he sees me, he says, ‘I didn't do that,’ " Trump said. "And I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it."
While politifact is reporting truth, they are leaving out truth so their truth is a lie. I remember that time and all the irresponsible journalism that came out giving us the impression Trump is believing every word Putin says. In the link below is responsible journalism where Fox News actually reported everything Trump said pertaining to his meeting with Putin and Trump said "
As to whether I believe it, I'm with our agencies,” the president added. “As currently led by fine people, I believe very much in our intelligence agencies.”[/color]

[/size]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/12/trump-says-stands-with-us-intel-agencies-on-russian-meddling.html

[/color]Currently, as you been reading, the mainstream media is claiming Trump never believed Russia was involved with the meddling of our elections but I remember a few times he admitted it was Russians. So the media and Politifact is lying to you, not Trump.


He told Putin, to his face, that he believed that the Russians weren't involved in our campaign.
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #1024 on: February 19, 2018, 10:20:41 PM »
He told Putin, to his face, that he believed that the Russians weren't involved in our campaign.


Trump needed to say that. If Trump told Putin he knew Russians were involved in his campaign for president, Mueller would find that out and Trump would probably be impeached for collusion.


We need to be careful with the media messing our brains up with Trump collusion with Russia and Russia meddling in the election. Two different things Mueller will look at. One of those things definitely did happen, the other most likely didn't happen.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

 

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