Buying a home in Russia

[mendeleyev]

Now might be the very best time in decades to purchase real estate in Russia. It may also be the very worst time.

A recent poll published by the Moscow Times reveals that over 50% of the Russian population believes that the worst economic times are still ahead, despite repeated announcements by government officials that the worst is over.

My wife and I hold several properties in Russia. We have no intention of selling at this point, and have even talked about purchasing given the seemingly rock bottom prices for apartments in the Moscow region and beyond.

Russians do have one glaring fault, one that keeps the average citizen poor: they tend to sell assets during hard times. It is exactly the time when the wealthy are buying.

I understand that some desperately need the cash. That is in many cases sadly unavoidable. But, sometimes the Russian psyche almost seems unadaptable to accumulating wealth, and perhaps helps us understand why so few in Russia have so much. The average Russian is conditioned to buy high and sell low when it comes to major assets.

In December alone I was offered, by known acquaintances, the opportunity to purchase two apartments. One was offered at around $50k USD and the other at under $40k. Both had been purchased at well over $100K (one almost double that) and both were near the centre of Moscow. Both sold quickly to someone (not us) who knows and understands the advantage of buying low, and later selling high.

We live in interesting times.

[krimster2]

mendeleyev,
   what do you think the reception would be like for a US citizen in Russia right now?  I lived in Sevastopol from 2004-2007, geographically Ukrainian at the time, but culturally very Russian.  I got into 2 "altercations" with local "hooligans" for being an American and speaking English,  I would suspect Moscow would not be a good place for a foreigner right now

[alex330]

The trick is to try to buy before the market rebounds. Always a tough call, but I would wait a bit, I have a feeling prices will slide further South before they bounce....

[mendeleyev]

mendeleyev,
   what do you think the reception would be like for a US citizen in Russia right now?  I lived in Sevastopol from 2004-2007, geographically Ukrainian at the time, but culturally very Russian.  I got into 2 "altercations" with local "hooligans" for being an American and speaking English,  I would suspect Moscow would not be a good place for a foreigner right now

It is a good question, and there are a couple of ways to look at it. The big cities allow one a tad more anonymity, but there are hooligans in big cities too. Smaller towns and rural areas will be filled with lower educated folk who are more likely to believe the constant drumbeat they see about America on Russian television.

As you know, it is very different for someone who visits for a short time versus someone who is seen in the neighborhood day after day. While it is still okay to visit for a week or two, I don't recommend anyone moving to Russia at this moment.

[msmobyone]

As you know, it is very different for someone who visits for a short time versus someone who is seen in the neighborhood day after day. While it is still okay to visit for a week or two, I don't recommend anyone moving to Russia at this moment.

Mendy, I rarely differ in viewpoints with you and know you have experienced problems because of your viewpoints...

I am no fan of Putin, but the people I encounter are pleased to have visitors..I have had a small run in with two drunken Armenian/ Russians who knocked on the door of our apartment - wondering if it was for sale - who decided I was an American ..which seems to be 'bad' - if you encounter low IQ Neanderthals - but - generally - I have been made welcome.

[JayH]

Mendy, I rarely differ in viewpoints with you and know you have experienced problems because of your viewpoints...

I am no fan of Putin, but the people I encounter are pleased to have visitors..I have had a small run in with two drunken Armenian/ Russians who knocked on the door of our apartment - wondering if it was for sale - who decided I was an American ..which seems to be 'bad' - if you encounter low IQ Neanderthals - but - generally - I have been made welcome.

You are American now?

In case you miissed it--
"As for your survey of "opinions"- yeah right--very credible.I am over guys who have a narrow exposure  ( ie an extremely small sample)and then trot out  the "all the people I spoke to" justification for reaching an illogical conclusion.
Now in the case of Russia or the Crimea today-- do you really think anyone is that stupid to be expressing discontent with Putin? Russia?
Get real."

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg421944;topicseen#msg421944

[krimster2]

msmobyone,

You can have a 1,000 good contacts and it won’t alter your attitude, but get into 1 serious fight just because you’re a foreigner and it will forever alter your beliefs about Russian culture and how accepting they are of strangers.

if you’re in Russia right now, turn on your TV and experience the non-stop anti-western propaganda directed against western culture and people while extolling the virtues of Russian manhood.  when I lived in Sevastopol, I had some wonderful friendships, I also had two violent altercations simply because I was a foreigner speaking English publicly.   If something like this hasn’t happened to you yet, allow for the possibility that it might one day, two such incidents in 3 years means at least by my own experience that it is not too common (and this was all pre-sanction time period), what happened to me in Sevastopol was by no means an isolated incident there, two years ago, I know of an American who was taking pictures of downtown Sevastopol, and someone attacked him from behind which put him in the hospital, and when I lived there another American I knew was beaten in a restaurant. when it happened to me it completely changed my perception of how welcome I was there

[mendeleyev]

The dominant media, as Krimster2 says, is full of anti-Western messages on a daily basis. The two most evil places on the planet, according to Russian television, are the USA and Ukraine. Canada is treated as the 51st state and considered just as guilty by Russian media.

In June I could have lost my life were it not for an official escort by an Army Colonel. I was on an approved assignment with the blessing of the Foreign Ministry tasked with documenting several WWII sites, and Stalin burial sites of Polish and Russian civilians. We were at one site making photographs when about 40 villagers, with apparently nothing more to do than drink vodka and watch the First Channel, decided that an American, with or without an official escort, had no business at such a sacred site.

Fortunately the Colonel knew how to quickly shove a large Westerner into his vehicle and gun the ignition. Also fortunately, the Colonel was packing.

[krimster2]

ahhh good times!
but does make the objective of buying a home in Russia a difficult proposition!  now imagine if you have children...

[cc3]

Mendy, your tales of life in Russia, seen through an expat's eyes, make me most grateful to be living in the very civilized, pleasant city of L'viv.

[mendeleyev]

Mendy, your tales of life in Russia, seen through an expat's eyes, make me most grateful to be living in the very civilized, pleasant city of L'viv.

You do indeed live in one of the jewels of Europe!

[msmobyone]

msmobyone,

You can have a 1,000 good contacts and it won’t alter your attitude, but get into 1 serious fight just because you’re a foreigner and it will forever alter your beliefs about Russian culture and how accepting they are of strangers.

if you’re in Russia right now, turn on your TV and experience the non-stop anti-western propaganda directed against western culture and people while extolling the virtues of Russian manhood. 

Hi Krimstar,

I DO watch RU news and current affairs, daily and the worst form of propaganda - IMHO is the sites run by westerners who want to put a negative spin on western democracies' policy re the Kremlin's acts.

Sure, I endure the constant ads for the new Crimean bridges [yawn ] and the latest Russia - it's a big nation clips...I come from a place where patriotism isn't derived from insecurity.

I am not an American and that probably saves me from some of the grief...I have lived in places where my political viewpoint does not suit the majority and perhaps should know better.. 

Yes, one's opinion is effected by experiences... but  - so far  - I've only experienced mostly friendliness.

We have friends married to a Turk - who has RU citizenship and after the SU24 shooting down, he promptly had a visit from the FSB... He reassured them, that he was no fan of Erdogan and was a Russian citizen and that was that ..


Britain and Russia have a history of disagreements over a FAR  longer time than the US. Perhaps, the Brits are not regarded in the same negative light.

[Chicagoguy]

I am always with a native when in Russia and nothing has happened yet. I imagine speaking English and attracting attention isn't too wise and I stay out of the bars.

[mhr7]

I've said it here before but I'll repeat myself because my experience in Russia has been different than what many expect. I have nothing but positive things to say about the Russians and their hospitality. I've been here for 1.5 years and have made many friends and acquaintances. I've been invited out to dinner, welcomed to their homes, shared  shots of vodka with some soldiers in a bar and have even been interviewed on the radio. When I go into a restaurant or some of the markets, people will attempt to use what little English they know in order to accommodate me. I was fairly nervous before I first came to Russia because of the anti-Western bias of the media and government but now I feel very comfortable.

[LAman]

I've said it here before but I'll repeat myself because my experience in Russia has been different than what many expect. I have nothing but positive things to say about the Russians and their hospitality. I've been here for 1.5 years and have made many friends and acquaintances. I've been invited out to dinner, welcomed to their homes, shared  shots of vodka with some soldiers in a bar and have even been interviewed on the radio. When I go into a restaurant or some of the markets, people will attempt to use what little English they know in order to accommodate me. I was fairly nervous before I first came to Russia because of the anti-Western bias of the media and government but now I feel very comfortable.

May I ask what city/area you live? Seems the smaller/medium sized cities the acceptance would be easier, if you lived there.

I have a close friend that lives in Moscow, even bought some properties there, have not been able to speak to him recently, I would like to know what he is experiencing now.
From my previous trips in Russia( large cities) I was hassled by police, constantly wanting to see my papers, this was a few years ago.

[ML]

From my previous trips in Russia( large cities) I was hassled by police, constantly wanting to see my papers, this was a few years ago.

Interesting.

I have been dozens of times to many locations in FSU (including Russia) going back to 1998 . . . and was never once stopped and asked to show any identification or papers (except when crossing the borders).

And, I even talked to a few policemen on the streets to ask directions etc., and still they never asked me to show them anything regarding ID, etc.

I guess that I look too harmless or too stupid to be up to no good.

[LAman]

Interesting.

I have been dozens of times to many locations in FSU (including Russia) going back to 1998 . . . and was never once stopped and asked to show any identification or papers (except when crossing the borders).

And, I even talked to a few policemen on the streets to ask directions etc., and still they never asked me to show them anything regarding ID, etc.

I guess that I look too harmless or too stupid to be up to no good.

You just don't have that "California Tan" !!!    Stopping was only in Moscow and St Pitre.

I never have been stopped by any police in Ukraine, the closest was the taxi bribes by police on street with flashlights. Scariest was in Moldova when a herd of police late one night asked what I was doing ( while I was walking with a date), girl told me to keep walking and ignore..... took a couple blocks before they stopped following.

[mendeleyev]

Unless you are breaking some law, local police are rarely an issue--they're looking for darker skinned folk from the former Soviet republics. There are bonuses for rounding up those folk who come to Russia for work without papers. As for being a Westerner, local cops most definitely do not like it when we pay attention to shakedowns we happen to see. The only problem I've ever encountered in such a scenario was when I was photographing a group of local cops making arrests of illegals outside a train station.

I am asked about directions just about every day, and that is common of just about anyone living in Moscow. The city is massive and if you look like you might know where you're going, someone who is not so sure may ask. No big deal and often I can give directions. It is actually a hoot if that person answers with a thank you in English.

Tourists and infrequent visitors rarely have issues. If you are seen constantly day in and day out, it can be a different story.

[mhr7]

May I ask what city/area you live? Seems the smaller/medium sized cities the acceptance would be easier, if you lived there.

I have a close friend that lives in Moscow, even bought some properties there, have not been able to speak to him recently, I would like to know what he is experiencing now.
From my previous trips in Russia( large cities) I was hassled by police, constantly wanting to see my papers, this was a few years ago.

I live in Novocherkassk, it has a population of about 170,000 and is around 20km northeast of Rostov-on-Don. Never had any problems with the police.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novocherkassk

[LAman]

Unless you are breaking some law, local police are rarely an issue--they're looking for darker skinned folk from the former Soviet republics. There are bonuses for rounding up those folk who come to Russia for work without papers. As for being a Westerner, local cops most definitely do not like it when we pay attention to shakedowns we happen to see. The only problem I've ever encountered in such a scenario was when I was photographing a group of local cops making arrests of illegals outside a train station.

I am asked about directions just about every day, and that is common of just about anyone living in Moscow. The city is massive and if you look like you might know where you're going, someone who is not so sure may ask. No big deal and often I can give directions. It is actually a hoot if that person answers with a thank you in English.

Tourists and infrequent visitors rarely have issues. If you are seen constantly day in and day out, it can be a different story.

Mendy, my issue was consistently being stopped and asked for papers, once or twice per block. The girl/girls I was with was/were visually upset. My papers were in order.....as I said, I don't look Russian, especially with a nice TAN!!! Certainly not dark skinned but I get the drift!!!!

[Anotherkiwi]

Mendy, my issue was consistently being stopped and asked for papers, once or twice per block. The girl/girls I was with was/were visually upset. My papers were in order.....as I said, I don't look Russian, especially with a nice TAN!!! Certainly not dark skinned but I get the drift!!!!

You must have been VERY unlucky.  My experience on the streets, although nowhere near as extensive as ML's, is the same as his - never a hassle, and help from the Police when talking to them.

[BillyB]

My experience on the streets, although nowhere near as extensive as ML's, is the same as his - never a hassle, and help from the Police when talking to them.

When you are in public, the cops will behave differently but they didn't earn their reputation for being corrupt for no reason. One can watch a traffic cop take bribes on a regular basis.


In Russia and in Uzbekistan I was pulled over and both times the taxi driver said "don't say anything".


I watched a couple of cops beat a guy at Sheremetyevo II airport in Moscow. He was sitting a few spots from me and didn't seem to cause any problems. Don't know why the cops were upset with him. Probably refused to show ID when asked.


Late at night I walked under a tunnel that crosses the streets in Maidan Square, in the center of Kiev. A couple of cops stopped me and asked for my passport. They then frisked me and pulled out my wallet and opened it. I kept my eye on the wallet but the other cop quickly turned me around to continue frisking me but I turned my head around to keep my eyes on the wallet. After they let me go, I'm sure they pulled out $100 for themselves. If they didn't have guns and the law on their side, I would've ripped their heads off. My wife said I should never use those tunnels at night. I called the embassy to report what happened and they said that happens often to tourists.

[BC]

jeez Billy... you walk in tunnels late at night in a major city of one of the poorest countries in the world with a wad of Franklin's in your wallet or at least enough of them that maybe one was missing after frisking you? and then call the consulate to report?  Heck if so at least you ran into real cops
I can only laugh at that...  simply stupid I say..

Put a hundred in twenties in your front pocket and passport and a credit card in other pocket next time. 

Can't recall ever having been 'controlled' by police in either UA or RU..  you must have bad karma there on the streets.

[BillyB]

wad of Franklin's in your wallet

Remember in grade school when the teacher asks all the students to sit in a circle and ask one student to whisper a story in another student's ear and that student in turn repeats the story to the next student and so on, but when the story gets to the end, it's completely different than the original? YOU are the student that always changes the story aren't you? I did not carry a wad of Franklin's in my wallet. There was one and smaller bills. I also carry money and passport in my front pocket which is better to fend off pickpockets.

[mendeleyev]

Now that new laws require that officers video record every traffic ticket, corruption at the local traffic level has decreased significantly.