Is it usual for Ukrainian Women to be inaffectionate when starting relationship?

[fathertime]

I agree Trenchcoat should take the lead and use suggestions by guys here on how to do that with FSU women but I don't think he should ask her why if she rebuffs him. What will he get out of the question?

He COULD get a lot out of the question, like the reason he is being rebuffed....Maybe she doesn't think of him that way, maybe she is concerned he might be a sex tourist, maybe she is paranoid about him being infected with an STD and doesn't want to bring up the subject, maybe she has herpes or something and is embarrassed,  Maybe his breath stinks, could be a dozen other things.....I guess the bottom line is a lot of that could be clarified/dispelled with a conversation.  That is why I would ask why!!  Why not have an honest conversation?


Fathertime!

[dragonkid]

You are the problem, when i first spoke to my ex, after a while she told me she was a virgin, i didn't emphasise the importance of virginity. I acted like it was a drag, she asked me the type of women i like, i said modest, and sexy, just little hints. Told her upfront i ain't having sex after marriage, and i wasn't sure if i could wait a long time to bang. The more you tell a girl how modest/respectful she is the worse it is to bang, act like you want a fun type of women who you can trust. Not a nun , women constantly ask me permission saying "If we (deleted) on the first night, i don't want you to think badly of me", they want assurance that it is okay to (deleted), invite her over to your place, say you have a nice documentary, or get war and peace new tv  show and watch it with her. Get her comfortable, put your arm around her, stroke her,, take your time, learn how to seduce a girl and make her feel loved physically.

[treadmilldude]

...

[treadmilldude]

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[BillyB]

He COULD get a lot out of the question, like the reason he is being rebuffed....Maybe she doesn't think of him that way, maybe she is concerned he might be a sex tourist, maybe she is paranoid about him being infected with an STD and doesn't want to bring up the subject, maybe she has herpes or something and is embarrassed,  Maybe his breath stinks, could be a dozen other things.....I guess the bottom line is a lot of that could be clarified/dispelled with a conversation.  That is why I would ask why!!  Why not have an honest conversation?

Trenchcoat already brought the issue up to her at least once. If she's still thinking he could be a sex tourist, she's paranoid. She's an adult, so if she thinks he may have an STD which is a deal breaker for her, she should bring it up or request a blood test done. I'm glad you brought that up. Besides talking to women about hot topics before deciding on a visit, I also tell them my blood is clean and I am disease free. Clean blood is important to those ladies. The ladies will in turn talk to me about their health. All these things should come up before or during the first meeting, not late into the game. Trenchcoat decided on a second meeting. His girl has to come around on her own. If she doesn't, Trenchcoat has his answer.

[fathertime]

Trenchcoat already brought the issue up to her at least once. If she's still thinking he could be a sex tourist, she's paranoid. She's an adult, so if she thinks he may have an STD which is a deal breaker for her, she should bring it up or request a blood test done. I'm glad you brought that up. Besides talking to women about hot topics before deciding on a visit, I also tell them my blood is clean and I am disease free. Clean blood is important to those ladies. The ladies will in turn talk to me about their health. All these things should come up before or during the first meeting, not late into the game. Trenchcoat decided on a second meeting. His girl has to come around on her own. If she doesn't, Trenchcoat has his answer.

Well Billy, different people will choose different times to bring things up like their blood/health, not to mention all their other concerns.  I really don't think it would be late in the game to bring up any of those items I mentioned.  They are getting to know each other, and haven't even kissed, if Trenchcoat makes his move and were to get rebuffed, he could then possibly find out why, and either rectify, clarify, or move on.  It would have been better to get that done on the first trip though, because still being on the bubble afterwords is not optimal.  He may not even get rebuffed, but if he does, if it were me, I'd want to know why, because some things can be easily rectified, others can not.


Fathertime! 

[BillyB]

if it were me, I'd want to know why, because some things can be easily rectified, others can not.

She told Trenchcoat it takes her a while with people earlier when he asked.  If she has more excuses, it should have been disclose the first time he asked her about her lack of affection. Any other answer, even if it can be rectified, is a delay tactic now. Trenchcoat has satisfied her concerns by giving her the time she asked for and will give her a second visit. There's no valid excuse she can give to refusing his kiss on the next visit.

[ML]

There's no valid excuse she can give to refusing his kiss on the next visit.

It will be his second visit.

Some gals have a rule of no kissing until third visit.

The third visit rule.

There are ways to beat this system however.

After first date on first visit, take a plane out to nearest city, hops on another plane and fly back for second visit.

Then fly out, and back again for third visit.

Simple solution.

[fathertime]

She told Trenchcoat it takes her a while with people earlier when he asked.  If she has more excuses, it should have been disclose the first time he asked her about her lack of affection. Any other answer, even if it can be rectified, is a delay tactic now. Trenchcoat has satisfied her concerns by giving her the time she asked for and will give her a second visit. There's no valid excuse she can give to refusing his kiss on the next visit.

Personally I wouldn't wait so long to get rebuffed without getting to the bottom of it, or moving on.  That said, the lady could have lots of reasons, some of which are sensible. So to my way of thinking, asking a question about "Why am I being rebuffed?" can either do no harm, or possibly lead to a conversation that rectifies the situation.


  why not ask why, and make a final determination after that? What is the harm at that point?


Fathertime! 

[ML]

So to my way of thinking, asking a question about "Why am I being rebuffed?"

Be sure and have the translation ready for 'rebuffed.'

It could mean you just want your knob polished again.

[fathertime]

Be sure and have the translation ready for 'rebuffed.'

It could mean you just want your knob polished again.

Ha! that's a good one...


I know I wouldn't actually EVER use the word 'rebuffed' in that fictional conversation!


Fathertime! 

[BillyB]

why not ask why, and make a final determination after that? What is the harm at that point?

The harm is when some ladies know a guy gets frustrated to the point of asking why are unpleasant things happening or good things are not happening, they give him an answer that keeps the guy on the hook. they promise change in the future, not a solution right now.


When a guy and a girl spend months communicating, have the hots for each other and building up for the moment of finally meeting, they should be ready to give each other at least one kiss if not be all over each other. If Trenchcoat can't get a kiss on the first day of a second visit, he clearly isn't appreciated and should engage in plan B and not look back. He shouldn't feel a need to get answers from a person he'll never see again.

[Trenchcoat]

He COULD get a lot out of the question, like the reason he is being rebuffed....Maybe she doesn't think of him that way, maybe she is concerned he might be a sex tourist, maybe she is paranoid about him being infected with an STD and doesn't want to bring up the subject, maybe she has herpes or something and is embarrassed,  Maybe his breath stinks, could be a dozen other things.....I guess the bottom line is a lot of that could be clarified/dispelled with a conversation.  That is why I would ask why!!  Why not have an honest conversation?


Fathertime!

Your right again Fathertime  thanks this is very helpful advice and should help make some progress for me. I never cleared the air on these subjects beforehand and should have done. I don't have any std's or anything, she is pretty hot so I wondered but she is a little church going so perhaps somewhat conservative overall so perhaps not. Writing to her before next visit I think would be best on this I think, it's not the sort of thing that would be at ease/make an enjoyable time of it bringing it up whilst with her and defences might go up if it's sensitive areas. I used mouth wash daily often more than once so I doubt it's that, lol. I know after getting back looking on EM on the Russian page where she gives advice to girls she kind of gives the advice that relationships areless llikely to work if girls give sex on first date, so could be that if she read it or her outlook as well. Hopefully the sex tourist thing should become evident that I'm not since it would be an odd way about it as if that is all I wanted there would be quicker, easier and cheaper ways. Yeah, I think for sure it's vital I address this stuff to her. While there it was more a subtle questioning as I didn't want to mess up the good time we were having by getting all heavy and by the time I asked about the affection issue it was late in the day and didn't really go into depth. I think to a certain extent we were both at the stage of getting on and getting to know each other. Next time though there would need development as I wouldn't go to a third visit without which I would make clear to her if it seemed that I would have to.

[Trenchcoat]

You are the problem, when i first spoke to my ex, after a while she told me she was a virgin, i didn't emphasise the importance of virginity. I acted like it was a drag, she asked me the type of women i like, i said modest, and sexy, just little hints. Told her upfront i ain't having sex after marriage, and i wasn't sure if i could wait a long time to bang. The more you tell a girl how modest/respectful she is the worse it is to bang, act like you want a fun type of women who you can trust. Not a nun , women constantly ask me permission saying "If we (deleted) on the first night, i don't want you to think badly of me", they want assurance that it is okay to (deleted), invite her over to your place, say you have a nice documentary, or get war and peace new tv  show and watch it with her. Get her comfortable, put your arm around her, stroke her,, take your time, learn how to seduce a girl and make her feel loved physically.

You could actually be right here, growing up with all the feminism around tends to mean I probably overdid the gentleman thing a bit. Though I think there was that needing to get at ease with each other and personal space vibe. I should of as Fathertime suggests brought up some pertinent issues beforehand that I did not perhaps thinking it would take its course so avoid being uncouth - actually having just considered this a bit more think I avoided such talk in Email beforehand as I didn't want to create a virtual reality then have the awkwardness of the real reality and adjusting to it. In other words I didn't wish to get ahead of myself before we had met and create a online romance (online Romeo) when I hadn't really met her so creating an unreal situation that might make it feel real uneasy when meeting if you know what I mean. So kind of like fake as in she might be thinking, 'well ok but you have never really met me' - a bit like how you can only really put love to someone with sincerity once you have made love, if only kissing, and perhaps I feel she feels like this also. However, like you say I think your right when saying women act to how the man acts and I should have let her know it was ok and not think less of her either beforehand in email or after first day or so when we were more at ease with each other. She's a sweet girl so I probably let this influence me more than it should off, possibly a virgin though she's around thirty so would be surprised as its very unusual by then I think.

[fathertime]

The harm is when some ladies know a guy gets frustrated to the point of asking why are unpleasant things happening or good things are not happening, they give him an answer that keeps the guy on the hook. they promise change in the future, not a solution right now.


When a guy and a girl spend months communicating, have the hots for each other and building up for the moment of finally meeting, they should be ready to give each other at least one kiss if not be all over each other. If Trenchcoat can't get a kiss on the first day of a second visit, he clearly isn't appreciated and should engage in plan B and not look back. He shouldn't feel a need to get answers from a person he'll never see again.

Well billy I guess we see this one differently...Without being one of the actual participants it is hard to say...but I think I'd try to see if the solution is reasonable/fixable, prior to moving on. 


Fathertime! 

[BillyB]

You could actually be right here, growing up with all the feminism around tends to mean I probably overdid the gentleman thing a bit. Though I think there was that needing to get at ease with each other and personal space vibe. I should of as Fathertime suggests brought up some pertinent issues beforehand that I did not perhaps thinking it would take its course so avoid being uncouth - actually having just considered this a bit more think I avoided such talk in Email beforehand as I didn't want to create a virtual reality then have the awkwardness of the real reality and adjusting to it. In other words I didn't wish to get ahead of myself before we had met and create a online romance (online Romeo) when I hadn't really met her so creating an unreal situation that might make it feel real uneasy when meeting if you know what I mean. So kind of like fake as in she might be thinking, 'well ok but you have never really met me' - a bit like how you can only really put love to someone with sincerity once you have made love, if only kissing, and perhaps I feel she feels like this also. However, like you say I think your right when saying women act to how the man acts and I should have let her know it was ok and not think less of her either beforehand in email or after first day or so when we were more at ease with each other. She's a sweet girl so I probably let this influence me more than it should off, possibly a virgin though she's around thirty so would be surprised as its very unusual by then I think.

Trenchcoat, you're making all kinds of speculations on to why she may not be affectionate with you. You say she's a sweet girl but you really don't understand her. She told you the reason she's not affectionate with you and it's because she needs more time. There's nothing more to it unless she's lying. Go ahead and discuss health with her before your next visit. Go to a doctor and get your blood checked out to show her the results you're disease free. There should be no more excuses to why she can't kiss you the next time you show up. Me and a bunch of guys here can testify it shouldn't be this hard to get a kiss from a girl.

[David1963]

 Me and a bunch of guys here can testify it shouldn't be this hard to get a kiss from a girl.

It really shouldn't.
Do you have difficulty getting a kiss from a girl where you live?  If you visit her again you need to have some serious discussions on were this relationship is going.  Have a back up plan because I doubt this will be a relationship.
You are already across the pond so trips, even short ones would be easier for you.
Put together additional planning, have some back up ladies to visit that way you don't feel you have to make this one work if it's not working.
 

[2tallbill]

It really shouldn't.
Do you have difficulty getting a kiss from a girl where you live?  If you visit her again you need to have some serious discussions on were this relationship is going.  Have a back up plan because I doubt this will be a relationship.
You are already across the pond so trips, even short ones would be easier for you.
Put together additional planning, have some back up ladies to visit that way you don't feel you have to make this one work if it's not working.

+ 1

I believe fortune favors the bold, I would tell the girl that it's fortunate that the
apartment manager arranged for a ladder to be in the closet, because that's the
only way I could get her panties down from the chandelier.

+100
On having a backup plan.

If things don't work out, you could set up a dozen or so dates on Mamba or a local
agency. I met my wife after things didn't work out with a girl that I went to see wovo.

Always be cautiously optimistic, but with a plan if things don't work out.


Udachi!


Bill

[fathertime]

I believe fortune favors the bold,

Agree 4-square!


Fathertime! 

[Anotherkiwi]

Told her upfront i ain't having sex after marriage...

Wow!  And she was still interested in you? 

[GuppyCaptain]

It really shouldn't.
Do you have difficulty getting a kiss from a girl where you live?  If you visit her again you need to have some serious discussions on were this relationship is going.  Have a back up plan because I doubt this will be a relationship.
You are already across the pond so trips, even short ones would be easier for you.
Put together additional planning, have some back up ladies to visit that way you don't feel you have to make this one work if it's not working.

Precisely. We're talking about getting a kiss here. It's not like you were trying to get in her pants.

[dragonkid]

Whatever you do, do not talk to her, you will come off desperate which is really unattractive. get some other girls, not for back up, but get in a mentality that you are an alpha male, that can get girls easily in FSU, and she is lucky to have a guy like you after her.

[msmobyone]

+100
On having a backup plan.

Counter opinion...MEGA DAFT IDEA ...  If you are on a VO trip and you've done your 'due diligence' and checked each other out on - say - SKYPE video chats - having back up plans is just STUPID ....

I know Beel met AE like that ...but she is one in a million ... most FSU don't take kindly to being 'back up plans'... would you ?

You're likely to be far more successful  - if you're confident in yourself and her... without 'complications' ...

Beel - love ya lots 

[Trenchcoat]

Whatever you do, do not talk to her, you will come off desperate which is really unattractive. get some other girls, not for back up, but get in a mentality that you are an alpha male, that can get girls easily in FSU, and she is lucky to have a guy like you after her.

Think there is something in this, I told her I was just going to meet her, which was true and that I have stopped communicating with other girls, also true. I did this as I believed her to be the one, I still believe this even though I hoped for more affection. However, while she seems to have appreciated this I do wonder if I have made a faux pas here in virtually telling her there's no competition, at least not at present. Perhaps it kind of meant that she could play it as she like who knows, maybe it wouldn't have made a difference either way. Anyway, that is why I think going to Odessa with her next may help as a lot of beach babes there so she'll feel the competition a bit  Kiev was good but its not really a place where women are flaunting it a lot, only here and there, and if the weather is a bit cool its heavy coat time. So thinking with a bit of suggesting coaxing beforehand and having already got to have known her, it could be better on the affection front. She seems genuine so if she seems more agreeable to it I think she would be fine.

[Trenchcoat]

Counter opinion...MEGA DAFT IDEA ...  If you are on a VO trip and you've done your 'due diligence' and checked each other out on - say - SKYPE video chats - having back up plans is just STUPID ....

I know Beel met AE like that ...but she is one in a million ... most FSU don't take kindly to being 'back up plans'... would you ?

You're likely to be far more successful  - if you're confident in yourself and her... without 'complications' ...

Beel - love ya lots 

Back up plans would be real difficult on a visit one trip particularly if it is a short trip of say about four days like mine. Using whatever dating site Mamba, EM, etc it may prove difficult to meet someone at short notice for sure and even then you'll likely have limited time to get to know them, plus you may not click at all in which case you'll be trying to bring up others and most likely have big waiting periods in between, not a good way to spend a holiday/time abroad, you would have to be lucky I think so your right there.

Also places like central Kiev dint necessarily have a lot of walk in bars (maybe because of the alcohol problem with the young men) so its mostly sit down restaurants. This doesn't make the pick up scene easy, to me it looked like better chances would be had during the daytime wandering around the supermarket/shops, but even then  Beach cities might be better like Odessa during the summer is my thoughts but personally I think back up plans are difficult it would be what you are left with if main plan failed. Even contacting women beforehand may not strike up a good back up situation is what I tend to think.

Main thing with the visit one is risk - the guy is taking a high risk on the face of it - risk she won't show, risk they may not get on, risk that either party may call it off and ditch other, risk girl may turn out to be scammer, other motives, etc. This cannot be emphasized enough. Even with girls that come across as very genuine there are still those nagging doubts when in the hotel room beforehand that she may not show. From the UK it would be bad enough but from the US it would be worse, i.e flown all that way, expense and time. So to be honest the WMWM approach seems the more common sense/logical approach. However, the visit one approach though seemingly very risky might I wonder be more selective upfront and so perhaps turn out more appropriate results maybe. Just my thoughts on it all at present.