Is it usual for Ukrainian Women to be inaffectionate when starting relationship?

[GatoMoon]

And if she thinks I am gay, then oh well she will think I am gay, I don't care. I am a gentleman. I am going to Belarus to find my life partner, not for sex.

It is one, the main reason why I never did well with British women.  They expect me to make the first move.  Like you, I am a gentleman.

[JayH]

It is one, the main reason why I never did well with British women.  They expect me to make the first move.  Like you, I am a gentleman.

That  does not make you a gentleman!  It does tell me you a slow -- and no wonder you cannot make an impression on fsuw!

[2tallbill]

Some of us, genetically, cannot skip the comedy.

Of hundreds of FSU women I met (for business and romance) I would say something less than 5% of them did not respond favorably to my humor.

I use humor too and was almost always successful it. Once you get a
girl laughing then everything else becomes easier.

Some humor doesn't translate well between language and cultures. It's
not impossible to figure out that they won't understand and then avoid
that kind of humor.

Example of bad joke to tell,

diarrhea is hereditary, it runs in your genes.

They would never understand that joke and they would think it was
disgusting, so if you tell a joke like that they would think you were
weird. A lot of American humor are linguistic puns, a play on words
etc. Avoid humor like that, it will almost never work. I think that
might be what Steamer was alluding to.

Telling funny stories about yourself is the easiest, eventually you
can learn what tickles their funny bones.

[GuppyCaptain]

Most FSU women expect the man to make the first move.  I know that this has been discussed here, but you may be missing out if you haven't pushed it.

Agreed. A well timed attempt at a romantic kiss will probably answer your questions about her. There will either be sparks or she'll be noticeably reluctant. Either way will be telling. Go for it!

[2tallbill]

Steamer, your post has me sad, worried and disappointed. I am very affectionate, even in public. I love to hold hands in public with the woman I love and care for. You are telling me that on the first date, towards the very end of the date....if we have been together for 7, 8 hours for that first date, there is great chemistry, we have been laughing the entire date, everything is going extremely well, clearly there is a lot of romantic / sexual tension in the air whenever we look into each others' eyes....you are telling me that if I do what I have almost always done during my dating life in the US, when the first date is going really great, and I quietly and innocently, take her hand with my hand, look into her eyes and smile very lovingly and warmly...that this will not be appreciated and may not be reciprocated? 

If there is mutual chemistry and she is romantically interested in you
then you have nothing to worry about.

[GatoMoon]

That  does not make you a gentleman!  It does tell me you a slow -- and no wonder you cannot make an impression on fsuw!

Who said I only look for FSU!!!  I don't have problems with Latin women!!  It doesn't matter if your slow or not, I am looking for THE perfect woman, not trying to get women in bed to find out if she is the one!

Your atavar states that you are LOOKING - does it mean that you are moving TOO FAST?  !!!

[ML]

I have dated, probably around 12 women from the FSU.  I have never not had one take my arm or hold hands on even the first date.  The ones I've connected with, by the second date we were kissing. 

If by the third date, there were no sparks flying, I would throw her back in the pond and fish for another fish.

This pretty much mirrors my experience.

[BillyB]

So like not much physical body contact, not meaning sex here, but no real kissing, holding each other, holding hands even. Friendly, not expressionless just no real physical contact as we would normally expect in the west.

I assume you made an effort to hold hands and kiss but you were rejected?

I like to know where I stand, she says it takes her a while with people (I understand this as we have only just met in person recently).

I suspect there was a failure to communicate. Some guys will jump on a plane for a women if she says "Hi!" to him in an email. You should only visit a woman who is thrilled to hear your voice. This excitement will carry over to when you two will meet. My wife was jumping up and down waving at me as I came through the customs exit doors at the airport.


Just as you were visiting her with the thoughts she could be your future wife, she should have the thoughts you could be her future husband yet you leave this trip confused as to where she stands. The first meeting is to figure each other out and it seems she is confused about what you mean to her and she didn't put much effort into learning more about you. After a first meeting, the answer should be yes or no on if you two will become exclusive.


People in the FSU walk arm in arm and kiss each other on the cheek during a greeting or when parting. I always give my dates a kiss on the cheek at the beginning of the date and offer my arm when going on a walk and kiss on the cheek at the end of the date. I've dated dozens of FSU women mostly in America. All but one took my arm when I offered and the one that didn't, there wasn't a second date. All took my kiss on the cheek except one who said she didn't hug or kiss on a first date. She felt comfortable with me during the date and at the end, I said "thanks for meeting me and hope to see you again". She then gave me a hug and kiss on the cheek.


Kissing on the cheek or walking down the street with her holding your arm isn't signs of affection but you can get a read on how comfortable the lady is with you and if she's comfortable, you may go in for that kiss on a first or later date. Also you need to make the move to kiss on the cheek and offer your arm. Don't expect them to take it on their own until they are more comfortable with you.


If I were getting bad signs a lady wasn't "into me" early into a trip, I would say "goodbye" early so I could pursue plan B. I know you invested a lot time and money into meeting this woman but know when to hold and when to fold.


Find a woman that is thrilled to communicate with you before visiting her. It may take some time to find this woman. You may also have to make adjustments on how you talk to women too but, if you rush this and think you don't have time to do it right, when will you have the time to do it over?

As they build trust with you most RW I know are very affectionate and demonstrate affection publicly. My wife always holds my hand, runs her hands through my hair and pull me in for tender kisses in public.

My wife does that stuff too and also runs her fingers through my hair and bald spot but she didn't do it near as much as that Ukrainian nymphomaniac I once dated.

[alex330]

My wife does that stuff too and also runs her fingers through my hair and bald spot but she didn't do it near as much as that Ukrainian nymphomaniac I once dated.

LOL, better not let your wife in on that 

[cc3]

My UW wife tells me that most UW's feel that western men (WM) are all potential sexpats, thus they maintain the chill but polite exterior until the day they determine differently. She was that way with me until the fourth day together, then she opened up to me with all of the Slavic warmth and passion which we attribute to them in our WM fantasies of FSUW's. That was four years ago. Now she is my committed, loving wife...to a degree that I never experienced from AW's.

If she hasn't opened up to you after a few days, she either has yet to make the determination that you are not a sexpat, or she's just not into you as a potential mate.

[Faux Pas]

My UW wife tells me that most UW's feel that western men (WM) are all potential sexpats, thus they maintain the chill but polite exterior until the day they determine differently. She was that way with me until the fourth day together, then she opened up to me with all of the Slavic warmth and passion which we attribute to them in our WM fantasies of FSUW's. That was four years ago. Now she is my committed, loving wife...to a degree that I never experienced from AW's.

If she hasn't opened up to you after a few days, she either has yet to make the determination that you are not a sexpat, or she's just not into you as a potential mate.

So she showed no affectionate interest until the fourth day?

[cc3]

She showed polite, intellectual, non-committal interest.

[Trenchcoat]

I this me you made an effort to hold hands and kiss but you were rejected?



I suspect there was a failure to communicate. Some guys will jump on a plane for a women if she says "Hi!" to him in an email. You should only visit a woman who is thrilled to hear your voice. This excitement will carry over to when you two will meet. My wife was jumping up and down waving at me as I came through the customs exit doors at the airport.


Just as you were visiting her with the thoughts she could be your future wife, she should have the thoughts you could be her future husband yet you leave this trip confused as to where she stands. The first meeting is to figure each other out and it seems she is confused about what you mean to her and she didn't put much effort into learning more about you. After a first meeting, the answer should be yes or no on if you two will become exclusive.


People in the FSU walk arm in arm and kiss each other on the cheek during a greeting or when parting. I always give my dates a kiss on the cheek at the beginning of the date and offer my arm when going on a walk and kiss on the cheek at the end of the date. I've dated dozens of FSU women mostly in America. All but one took my arm when I offered and the one that didn't, there wasn't a second date. All took my kiss on the cheek except one who said she didn't hug or kiss on a first date. She felt comfortable with me during the date and at the end, I said "thanks for meeting me and hope to see you again". She then gave me a hug and kiss on the cheek.


Kissing on the cheek or walking down the street with her holding your arm isn't signs of affection but you can get a read on how comfortable the lady is with you and if she's comfortable, you may go in for that kiss on a first or later date. Also you need to make the move to kiss on the cheek and offer your arm. Don't expect them to take it on their own until they are more comfortable with you.


If I were getting bad signs a lady wasn't "into me" early into a trip, I would say "goodbye" early so I could pursue plan B. I know you invested a lot time and money into meeting this woman but know when to hold and when to fold.


Find a woman that is thrilled to communicate with you before visiting her. It may take some time to find this woman. You may also have to make adjustments on how you talk to women too but, if you rush this and think you don't have time to do it right, when will you have the time to do it over?



My wife does that stuff too and also runs her fingers through my hair and bald spot but she didn't do it near as much as that Ukrainian nymphomaniac I once dated.

No I made no attempt at holding arm or kissing - I kind of read from her vibe that she would unlikely to be open to this. Not that she had a bad vibe of disinterest in me and I am not one to wish to force myself on anyone I would want it reciprocal.

In any case she is a lovely girl so I wouldn't fold on someone like that only on someone who was not nice/showed obvious disinterest. In any case she turned up and we both had a wonderful time together which is better than being miserable in a hotel room. I know what you're saying though but looking elsewhere etc would just make an unpleasant situation of it and be inconvenient.

Essentially that's why I didn't bring it up until near the end as I didn't want to risk turning a pleasant holiday into a bad atmosphere. Well we eventually talked several times, I raised the affectionate situation and she stated that it takes her time to get to know a stranger and feel comfortable. That for some people it's different but it's how she is. She's slightly church going and into music cultural scene and seems genuine so could be straight up. She smiles a lot and I guess simile eyes when I am around her so seems to like being around me, shown no signs of negativeness towards me. Still seems bizarre situation to me it gets kind of anxious feeling over several days as you don't really know where you are, but we shall see I guess.

[Trenchcoat]

Guess just to add she seemed thrilled to communicate when on skype, messaging and when I said I would visit her, she seemed cheerful all the time I was with her. I liked her and both seemed to get on well so seemed valid enough to visit her. Ok if she really does want to take it steady just seems an oddball situation otherwise which aren't great to be in. Would seem weird of her to do all of that for the joy of it so hoping it's all ok but we shall see I guess.

[BillyB]

My UW wife tells me that most UW's feel that western men (WM) are all potential sexpats,

That's possible since most men going to the FSU are looking to party instead of wife hunting. One way a guy can eliminate a cold woman at a meeting is to get her comfortable with him during correspondence to the point she's excited to meet the guy instead of looking at him suspiciously during the first dates. After reading enough trip reports, I come to the conclusion most men do not phone or Skype with the ladies their visiting. When a lady sees a man put some effort before a first visit to get to know her on a much deeper level, she will understand she's not just a piece of meat to the man. Recently my wife told me she remembered my first phone call to her and she felt good about me after I talked to her. If I never talked to her or talked to her often before a first visit, she probably would be more cautious about me on a first date.

My UW wife tells me that most UW's feel that western men (WM) are all potential sexpats, thus they maintain the chill but polite exterior until the day they determine differently. She was that way with me until the fourth day together, then she opened up to me with all of the Slavic warmth and passion which we attribute to them in our WM fantasies of FSUW's.

Trenchcoat may feel there is hope reading your post but his girl never opened up to him. Things are not settled after the meeting to get things settled took place.

No I made no attempt at holding arm or kissing - I kind of read from her vibe that she would unlikely to be open to this.

You made no attempt but you believe she is not a very affectionate person? Her body language must have been really cold to you. Next time you're dating any FSU woman, greet her with a kiss on the cheek and when you're walking down the street together or in a park, offer your arm(not your hand) for her to take. This is dating 101 stuff. You're worried about if the woman will reject you and you'll damage your chances of success with her? She should worry about damaging her chances with you. Get some confidence. Would you reject a woman you're interested in if she went in for a kiss or held your arm? If she rejects you, then you'll be able to make a decision quicker to find a woman that won't reject you.

she stated that it takes her time to get to know a stranger and feel comfortable. That for some people it's different but it's how she is.

That's how most normal people are. You need to realize the position you're in with her. She just told you that you're still a stranger. Like most normal people she will open up when the time is right and at this time, it ain't right for her and it may never be right for her. I don't know if you done something wrong or she didn't feel a connection with you but the fact is, she doesn't have the hots for you cause if she did, she wouldn't want to lose you and would not be so cold.

Guess just to add she seemed thrilled to communicate when on skype, messaging and when I said I would visit her, she seemed cheerful all the time I was with her.

Your version of a woman seemingly being thrilled to talk to you may be different than others but lets say for arguments sake, she was thrilled to Skype with you. That means after being face to face, she went cold for whatever reason. Things simply didn't advance for the better after correspondence.

I liked her and both seemed to get on well so seemed valid enough to visit her. Ok if she really does want to take it steady just seems an oddball situation otherwise which aren't great to be in.

I would not visit her but significantly increase my contacts with other women. It's stupid to put your life on hold for someone who you do not have a commitment with. You can remain on a friendly level with her and slowly reduce your amount of contacts with her over time. Go a week without talking to her and see what happens. A woman who is interested in you would ask why you're not talking to her as much anymore. A woman who is interested in you would care enough to ask if you're alright if you disappeared for a few days. You made the first move to visit her and you gave your best effort although it could've been better. It's her move now but while you're waiting, continue living life. I'm sure she's still keeping an eye out for that guy that would light her fire but for now, it's doesn't take much effort for her to keep you on the hook as a backup plan if that guy never shows up.

[2tallbill]

No I made no attempt at holding arm or kissing - I kind of read from her vibe that she would unlikely to be open to this. Not that she had a bad vibe of disinterest in me and I am not one to wish to force myself on anyone I would want it reciprocal.

I'm not questioning your reading of the situation, I wasn't there. I just
want to state my opinion for when guys find themselves in close proximity 
to an FSUW that they are genuinely interested in.

Generally speaking:
An FSUW would like you to make a pass/kiss attempt/reach for 2nd base
etc too early rather than too late. It's important to them to know that you
are interested in them. If they aren't ready yet they will tell you. They
want you to make the first move.

These girls are not feminists who will spray mace in your face or get
offended because you make a move. They've accepted meeting you
for a date. They are at least somewhat interested in you to do this.
They've been hit on by FSU men their entire lives, so my general
advice is to be bold, kiss the girl and let her know that you want to
curl her toes.

Udachi!

Bill

[Steamer]

Guess just to add she seemed thrilled to communicate when on skype, messaging and when I said I would visit her, she seemed cheerful all the time I was with her. I liked her and both seemed to get on well so seemed valid enough to visit her. Ok if she really does want to take it steady just seems an oddball situation otherwise which aren't great to be in. Would seem weird of her to do all of that for the joy of it so hoping it's all ok but we shall see I guess.

This woman sounds perfectly normal. Going slow is a good thing for both of you. The longer you take to get to know each other the better. You can't hide personality flaws forever so time is your friend.


Think about it; before you have sex you can objectively look at a woman and see her warts and all. After sex you cannot think right and only want more sex even if she's an axe murderer. You may feel guilty about trying to end it and marry her against your better judgement. Before sex if you have any misgivings you can kick her out of your life without a tinge of guilt.


After a nasty divorce I came to realize my own weaknesses and so I tried very hard to keep my head clear. I can be my own worst enemy sometimes.

[Trenchcoat]

Yeah I know what you're saying 2tallbill - she wasn't cold when we were together, she seemed thrilled (smiley eyes and smiley nearly all the time and seemingly to me) yet I didn't get the feeling being touched was something she was comfortable with (maybe in general). I pressed her on the matter near the end and she said some person people are affectionate immediately and some aren't saying  for now...  She's messaged a little since which is ok. She said we were strangers when we met, friends now and later we'll see. I'm happy with friends though more may be better but we'll see. I don't mind so much as long as we're straight up with each other and intentions weregenuine whatever the outcome.

For sure I can't be beholden to someone who if they turn out to be non-committal on affection/relationship. Any further meeting would have to be on the basis that she is ok being affectionate with me on the get go (holding arms, etc). She did hug and kiss me on the cheek when exchanging gifts (she got me a nice little something) /meeting/leaving which was fine enough - though kind offmandatory maybe.

So yeah it was a nice trip anyway and learnt more about the Ukraine and visited loads of stuff/did nice things so I don't regret it. Of course it's a little bit of distress over the affection thing since although I know I can't expect anything it was so mixed signals/unawareness of where I stood. I never expected it to be ending in marriage on first trip, I was sounding out possibility depending on scenario.

Long and short is if she cannot be committal on what I see as the basics within reasonable time it obviously works both ways and other possibilities with others may arise. I don't think I would be prepared to do the visit one again though as yeah I do need to know that a girl is fully into me for sure so you are right there.

[ML]

. . . let her know that you want to
curl her toes.

That was part of Chinese culture . . . but has been banned for several years now.

[ML]

Think about it; before you have sex you can objectively look at a woman and see her warts and all. After sex you cannot think right and only want more sex even if she's an axe murderer. You may feel guilty about trying to end it and marry her against your better judgement. Before sex if you have any misgivings you can kick her out of your life without a tinge of guilt.

Hey Steamer, I cannot relate at all to what you wrote.

After sex, you want it more . . . but you didn't want it as much before ????

After sex, you might feel obligated to marry her ????

Myself, I would be more clear headed and able to think objectively about a woman after sex, as compared to before sex.

[jone]

Yeah I know what you're saying 2tallbill - she wasn't cold when we were together, she seemed thrilled (smiley eyes and smiley nearly all the time and seemingly to me) yet I didn't get the feeling being touched was something she was comfortable with (maybe in general). I pressed her on the matter near the end and she said some person people are affectionate immediately and some aren't saying  for now...  She's messaged a little since which is ok. She said we were strangers when we met, friends now and later we'll see. I'm happy with friends though more may be better but we'll see. I don't mind so much as long as we're straight up with each other and intentions weregenuine whatever the outcome.

For sure I can't be beholden to someone who if they turn out to be non-committal on affection/relationship. Any further meeting would have to be on the basis that she is ok being affectionate with me on the get go (holding arms, etc). She did hug and kiss me on the cheek when exchanging gifts (she got me a nice little something) /meeting/leaving which was fine enough - though kind offmandatory maybe.

So yeah it was a nice trip anyway and learnt more about the Ukraine and visited loads of stuff/did nice things so I don't regret it. Of course it's a little bit of distress over the affection thing since although I know I can't expect anything it was so mixed signals/unawareness of where I stood. I never expected it to be ending in marriage on first trip, I was sounding out possibility depending on scenario.

Long and short is if she cannot be committal on what I see as the basics within reasonable time it obviously works both ways and other possibilities with others may arise. I don't think I would be prepared to do the visit one again though as yeah I do need to know that a girl is fully into me for sure so you are right there.

So, what about you?  Do you feel the beast inside you with this woman?

[Steamer]

Hey Steamer, I cannot relate at all to what you wrote.

After sex, you want it more . . . but you didn't want it as much before ????

After sex, you might feel obligated to marry her ????

Myself, I would be more clear headed and able to think objectively about a woman after sex, as compared to before sex.

That's OK, you're not me. Like I said I've discovered many of MY weaknesses.

[Trenchcoat]

So, what about you?  Do you feel the beast insidedampens down th . this woman?

Sometimes I do, but without more affection it's not really a possibility so I know it's not likely/nowhere near that so it dappens down any thought of that.

Also,  I guess she did ask for/have separate room before we met so I guess it suggests a more reserved type which is understandable I guess.

That I guess and I did say I wasn't expecting anything before I arrived so perhaps I am being a little unfair/getting overly excited that said.

[2tallbill]

That was part of Chinese culture . . . but has been banned for several years now.

I was talking about the FSU not China 

[BillyB]

Any further meeting would have to be on the basis that she is ok being affectionate with me on the get go (holding arms, etc).

How will you know she'd be willing to hold hands and kiss on a second meeting before you decide to visit? You will ask her or tell her the conditions that you have before deciding on a second visit? That would be awkward and a bad move. It would give you a false sense that she's into you if she agreed to your requirements. You won't know if any affection she'll give you at the second meeting is real and you will leave just as confused as you are now about where you stand with her.


If she's not missing you while you two are apart, she's not likely to open up to you more on a second visit. Doesn't matter if a woman is reserved, religious, and conservative, if a woman doesn't want to lose you, she'll make sure you're happy when you're together. You are not happy. Nothing changed even after you expressed your concerns with the lady. Other men have left the FSU very happy after meeting their woman. You can have this too but not with this woman.