Is it usual for Ukrainian Women to be inaffectionate when starting relationship?

[alex330]

I am surprised that no one mentioned it yet (at least that I noticed), but FSUW will definitely initiate sex.

The way they do it is by forcefully proclaiming that they are going to go take a shower.

Of course, for those not aware of this signal, they will think she actually just needs a shower.

So true...

[JayH]

Hey Dude--there are people who have posted in this thread with a lot of good advice . Some who I would not say a kind word about   eg FP who remarkably makes good observations here.Many others also-- and some clueless eg FT--who knows only what he has read here about fsuw but hardly surprising he offers comment on ANOTHER topic he is clueless on!!
   What needs to be recognised in threads like  this--people post what is general advice in any given situation  and many guys read these threads and are too afraid to ask in case the questions look dumb--just lucky you are here to do the asking!!

[GoodOlBoy]

Your head is so far in the clouds or up your ass (I really can't tell which) for you to be successful in this adventure or any healthy relationship. Your fantasies have taken over.  You are headed head first into a crash and burn if ever I saw one and it will be you that did it.

Yeah... what he said.
Choo...Choo... LOL

[GoodOlBoy]

The greatest threat that you have to a budding relationship with a UA woman with child is that the father will put up roadblocks to her living in the US.  As a matter of fact, without the father's written and notarized consent, that child will never step foot in America. 

I had a neighbor who paid $5000. (a sh!tload of rubles) to a absentee RM for his signature, before the daughter was "allowed" to leave. No money, no signature.......

[GuppyCaptain]

I had a neighbor who paid $5000. (a sh!tload of rubles) to a absentee RM for his signature, before the daughter was "allowed" to leave. No money, no signature.......

I was recently told that the going rate is $10,000 now. This person would know and has a lot of experience witnessing this play out in AM/FSUW relationships. 10K?! Are you ^*#+ing kidding me?! 

[treadmilldude]

I had a neighbor who paid $5000. (a sh!tload of rubles) to a absentee RM for his signature, before the daughter was "allowed" to leave. No money, no signature.......

What if your PPO health plan, like mine (and probably my FSU wife if I did in fact already have a FSU Wife who was here in the US with me, got pregnant with my child, and went to the hospital to have the child), has a $2,500 deductible, then a 20% copay after that for a hospital visit (including maternity visit)...I would probably end up spending right at $5,000, maybe a little more, on bringing my new child into the world. So what that FSU sperm donor asked for, $5K, is really pretty reasonable. Anyway you slice it, having a FSU child is expensive and is gonna cost money! LOL I learned that from Manny Stuart of RUA fame through PM's - he gave me a lot of good advice through PM's. I learned a lot from Manny, good guy.

[fathertime]

Hey Dude--there are people who have posted in this thread with a lot of good advice . Some who I would not say a kind word about   eg FP who remarkably makes good observations here.Many others also-- and some clueless eg FT--who knows only what he has read here about fsuw but hardly surprising he offers comment on ANOTHER topic he is clueless on!!
   What needs to be recognised in threads like  this--people post what is general advice in any given situation  and many guys read these threads and are too afraid to ask in case the questions look dumb--just lucky you are here to do the asking!!

Given your incredibly poor track record, you should be the one doing the asking, not the one doing the advising.


Fathertime!   

[msmobyone]

LOL I learned that from Manny Stuart of RUA fame through PM's - he gave me a lot of good advice through PM's. I learned a lot from Manny, good guy.

What can you learn from a guy who hasn't BEEN to Russia / Ukraine for years ? 

[Faux Pas]

I was recently told that the going rate is $10,000 now. This person would know and has a lot of experience witnessing this play out in AM/FSUW relationships. 10K?! Are you ^*#+ing kidding me?! 

I've heard of higher amounts. $20-25K wouldn't be an unusual request from a sure enough Richard Cranium

[2tallbill]

LOL I learned that from Manny Stuart of RUA fame through PM's - he gave me a lot of good advice through PM's. I learned a lot from Manny, good guy.

What can you learn from a guy who hasn't BEEN to Russia / Ukraine for years ? 

Manny is a very knowledgeable, although he probably ought to make his comments
on the open forum so he wouldn't be falsely accused of trying to recruit newbies from
this forum to his through the PM function.

I was banned from his forum reportedly for trying to recruit members to leave
his forum by PM. I didn't do that and I knew it is expressly against the rules and that
it's an unpardonable violation.

I wouldn't want to see him getting banned here for something he didn't do either. 
He knows the rules too and probably didn't do any obvious recruiting.

Udachi!

Bill

[Faux Pas]

What if your PPO health plan, like mine (and probably my FSU wife if I did in fact already have a FSU Wife who was here in the US with me, got pregnant with my child, and went to the hospital to have the child), has a $2,500 deductible, then a 20% copay after that for a hospital visit (including maternity visit)...I would probably end up spending right at $5,000, maybe a little more, on bringing my new child into the world. So what that FSU sperm donor asked for, $5K, is really pretty reasonable. Anyway you slice it, having a FSU child is expensive and is gonna cost money! LOL I learned that from Manny Stuart of RUA fame through PM's - he gave me a lot of good advice through PM's. I learned a lot from Manny, good guy.

Did he tell you about his forum?

[fathertime]

I was recently told that the going rate is $10,000 now. This person would know and has a lot of experience witnessing this play out in AM/FSUW relationships. 10K?! Are you ^*#+ing kidding me?! 

This also occurs in AM/Latina woman relationships.    On one hand, I can certainly sympathize with the man who is permitting his child to leave his country and sphere of influence, but in many cases the man really has nothing to do with the child anyway, and is just trying to make money because he can extort the new man he may feel he has over a barrel. 


I never put myself in that situation, but I think I would attempt to speak with the man and ascertain which type of guy he is, A) The caring father.  B) The greedy opportunist.  C) A mixture of both.  Once the Westerner figures out what he is dealing with, he can possibly tailor an offer that works for both parties.  In some cases, it may not be possible to make an offer that works for all parties, but there are plan potential plan B's that can be discussed if it reaches that point. 


Fathertime! 

[GuppyCaptain]

I've heard of higher amounts. $20-25K wouldn't be an unusual request from a sure enough Richard Cranium

JESUS!!!! Are you kidding me?! I guess a guy doesn't have much room to negotiate if they Richard Cranium wants to dig his heels in. Does anyone know if these negotiations usually go through a lawyer? Sorry for the thread drift.

[jone]

The first thing you need to know is that the FSUW probably already has a plan to get the child out of the country if she is serious about leaving.

This discussion is miles ahead of where these forum members are at, currently.

[Faux Pas]

JESUS!!!! Are you kidding me?! I guess a guy doesn't have much room to negotiate if they Richard Cranium wants to dig his heels in. Does anyone know if these negotiations usually go through a lawyer? Sorry for the thread drift.

Not kidding. I personally know a guy that was willing to pay the $25K requested (it started at 5K). His bride to be was refusing to work it out that way. She had a plan to make it happen without the payment. Dude didn't have a stomach for her way and they eventually split the sheets. Rarely through a lawyer.

jone's post is more truer to the "usual" situation. I would suggest to anyone (as I did to Dude I mention) let her work it out. She'll be much better and apt at navigating the situation and there is literally nothing the foreign man can do except provide ransom

[BillyB]

So what that FSU sperm donor asked for, $5K, is really pretty reasonable.

You don't know what the guy will ask for when you ask him to give up his parental and visitation rights forever. Some FSU men will refuse to sign the papers regardless of how much you offer them. There are various ways men here have tried to get stubborn fathers to sign the papers besides offering money. They've made promises to the father the child will visit him every summer. They, with their fiancée's agreeing, threaten she will leave the country regardless of him signing the papers, and the father will have full custody of the child. Some have bribed judges to give full custody to the mother. Some have hired strongmen into threatening bodily harm to get a father to sign papers. How ugly are you willing to get to make a father lose custody of his child over a woman?

[jone]

My observation, above, and the post that started all of this, was to be able to sound out an issue at an appropriate time.  Knowing if the father participated in the birthday celebration (how many AM that were part of their child's life would fail to participate?) is an indicator of whether the father is involved in the child's life.

This endeavor of bringing a new wife and (potentially) a child to the US is difficult enough without having a father object to the child leaving.

The questions I posted were innocent enough, but true indicators of future roadblocks.

[treadmilldude]

Guppy, the woman you are with right now has a Daughter, correct? Is the little girl's Biological Father a part of her life, and hence rough waters ahead? Or is there smooth sailing ahead of you if you decide to marry the Mom and bring her and her Daughter back to the US? I hope for the latter case.

Guys, question for ya'll. From talking to many many FSU girls over the last 2 1/2 years through Skype, email, VK, whatsapp, etc...a huge percentage, I'd say probably even the majority, of FSU Fathers do not pay monthly Child Support that they are legally required to pay. It pisses the FSU Moms off, obviously, to no end. I have never seen such sweet, kind, calm, passive, loving FSU Women.......suddenly erupt like Mount Saint Helens when the topic of their Child's Father, who will not pay child support, is broached. Hell hath no fury like a FSU woman scorned (or screwed on her alimony payments).

I think that in the US, if a Biological Father gets too far behind on his child support payments, and lets it be known in no uncertain terms that he refuses to ever catch up on them, or make future alimony payments....does he not forfeit his rights as a Parent? I mean common sense to me seems this would dictate he should naturally lose his rights as a parent, right? Raising a child is enormously expensive. If he is doing nothing to help support that child financially, then to me he is nothing more than a sperm donor and he should have zero rights as a Father.

Do you guys know if this is the way the family court system works in Belarus? Or are the family court laws pretty messed up in Belarus, and the sperm donor still has rights as a Dad even when he never pays child support?

I'm gonna ask Olya about Veronica's Biological dad this afternoon when I chat with her. But she actually brought him up, accidentally, twice, during our Skype chats. And this calm, mild-mannered woman who normally is about as harmless as a flea.....she got so angry I thought she was going to punch me through her computer screen! Those 2 times are the first and only times I have ever seen her not in a wonderful, happy mood. I am guessign the guy absolutely does NOT pay alimony.....which leads me to my original question....since Veronica's sperm donor does not pay Olya any alimony, does he still retain his rights as a Father in the Belarussian family court system?

Also, I might add I am not sure if he even sees Veronica. He might not ever even see her. This would be the best case scenario for me, that and the fact that the way Olya was acting, with such extreme anger, I seriously doubt he is paying any Alimony. 

[jone]

Guppy Captain -

Knowing your present situation, I would hope that you would make the lady's child part of your ongoing conversations, bringing it up slowly and without controversey.  All of theses doom an gloom stories are forbidding (and real) but are not present in many of the situations. 

Beware of a woman who says that she will remove the child from the country without the father's consent.  Or that she will "obtain" papers when the time is right, but does not include the father's actual signature.  In the initial stages of discussion of this very important topic, allow her to do the talking and you do the listening.   At this point, you are not the husband or stepfather to the child.  You are simply someone who has had a few dates with the woman. 

Probably the most recent and detailed discussion on these issues will come from CalMissile.  His now wife was very proficient in securing her daughter's release from the non-participating father.  The first thing she did was gain, through the courts, complete custody.  She subsequently had the father made accountable for all of the back and ongoing child support.  (Which caused him to hide from her.)  Once she had custoday, and the court had the assurance that this was a deadbeat dad, then the release was issued, I believe, without the ex-husband's consent.

He, of course has a much more detailed version of the story (and probably more accurate).  Hope he's around soon and can fill in the blanks.

[treadmilldude]

God Bless Cal. I have read his thread about how he adopted that beautiful little girl and is now her loving Father. I am so happy for Cal and his beautiful Wife that everything worked out perfectly in regards to him being able to bring the little girl to the US to live with Cal and his FSU Wife and he was able to legally adopt her as his own Daughter. Happy story. I love happy stories. 

[jone]

One final thought on this topic:

The courts (in any of the FSU countries) are not pre-disposed to helping a woman move her child out of the country.  So unless there is universal consent, any action on the part of the father to retain the child in country will be looked upon favorably by the court system. 

That is why Calmissile's wife sought sole custody.  So she would have complete control over what happened to her daughter.  And allowed her to gain visas for both her and her daughter.  One key component in the ongoing interaction.  I don't believe CalMissile, or his now wife, ever let on to the ex-husband that they were planning to take her daughter out of the country. 

I know of another situation, where the guy was a deadbeat dad whereby the future husband tried to get involved.  That situation ended in disaster for all parties.   

The reason I believe it is important for a man to find out the status of the child is not to participate with the woman in the ongoing actions to get the child's  visa, but to protect himself from getting involved with a woman who doesn't have a clue as to how to get her child a visa.  In this situation, I would strongly advise against continuing the relationship with the woman until she deals with the reality of her situation.

[treadmilldude]

You don't know what the guy will ask for when you ask him to give up his parental and visitation rights forever. Some FSU men will refuse to sign the papers regardless of how much you offer them. There are various ways men here have tried to get stubborn fathers to sign the papers besides offering money. They've made promises to the father the child will visit him every summer. They, with their fiancée's agreeing, threaten she will leave the country regardless of him signing the papers, and the father will have full custody of the child. Some have bribed judges to give full custody to the mother. Some have hired strongmen into threatening bodily harm to get a father to sign papers. How ugly are you willing to get to make a father lose custody of his child over a woman?

Actually, I am not willing to even go to first base. It is completely up to the child. If the Child loves his/her Father, I mean really loves her Father, and the Man pays his alimony and is a loving Dad, then I will have to break the news to the Belarussian girl I am with that I refuse to take that little girl or little boy away from his / her Father. No matter how much the FSU girl loves me, wants to marry me, and move to the US with me and bring her child to the US...none of that matters to me, I will not take a little girl or little boy away from his/her Father. I just will not do it. It's not the honorable thing for me to do.

[redfeather]

What is the legal age of a kid in Ukraine because several of the women I am talking to have kids that are 19 yrs old and 20 yrs old.  The women say that these older kids are living on their own.  I would not want to get into a bad position regarding the woman's kids even if they are over 18 years old.  Has anyone experienced any of these issues?

[Faux Pas]

One final thought on this topic:

The courts (in any of the FSU countries) are not pre-disposed to helping a woman move her child out of the country.  So unless there is universal consent, any action on the part of the father to retain the child in country will be looked upon favorably by the court system. 

That is why Calmissile's wife sought sole custody.  So she would have complete control over what happened to her daughter.  And allowed her to gain visas for both her and her daughter.  One key component in the ongoing interaction.  I don't believe CalMissile, or his now wife, ever let on to the ex-husband that they were planning to take her daughter out of the country. 

I know of another situation, where the guy was a deadbeat dad whereby the future husband tried to get involved.  That situation ended in disaster for all parties.   

The reason I believe it is important for a man to find out the status of the child is not to participate with the woman in the ongoing actions to get the child's  visa, but to protect himself from getting involved with a woman who doesn't have a clue as to how to get her child a visa.  In this situation, I would strongly advise against continuing the relationship with the woman until she deals with the reality of her situation.

Deadbeat dad is a term that doesn't really exist in the FSU. Although he may not have paid one kopek for the child's upkeep the courts won't go after him for the money and he will retain all of his rights as a father unless he signs them away or the process was instituted for the court to legally take them away. Not paying support or not visiting the child doesn't mean anything in those courts.

The case I mention that I am familiar with, the woman had fake documents drawn up to initiate the process and had paid off a judge to make them legal which likely in all probability would have worked. Dude didn't want to risk it and then he got too far involved and the price went up. She saw that as a victory for the ex and would have no part of it. They split over it

[BillyB]

And this calm, mild-mannered woman who normally is about as harmless as a flea.....she got so angry I thought she was going to punch me through her computer screen!

You've witnessed it. Do not be surprised how this lady will react to you each time she thinks you done something wrong. Also be skeptical of any woman who says it's all the ex's fault and he's a deadbeat dad.

If the Child loves his/her Father, I mean really loves her Father, and the Man pays his alimony and is a loving Dad, then I will have to break the news to the Belarussian girl I am with that I refuse to take that little girl or little boy away from his / her Father.

It's natural for all kids to say they love their parents regardless on how bad they are. You will only know how much the child loves the father if you get to see them interact with each other. I doubt you will have that opportunity. There are some women who get their children to hate their father and refuse the father his rights to see the child. Sometimes the father retaliates by withhold child support. Don't assume your lady is an angel. Is she one to hurt her ex and poison her child's mind? When you visit her, you need to really figure her out before believing it's going to end happily ever after.