4 dates via Agency in Odessa last week - have I been scammed, or is she legit?

[dragonkid]

You did not mentioned who is your 10.  Is she your 10?

are we sharing pictures of our ex's now?

[GatoMoon]

are we sharing pictures of our ex's now?

Yes at least I had experienced a 1   

[dragonkid]

Yes at least I had experienced a 1   

You experienced dating a 1/10? i am not sure what to say.

[Boethius]

Whatever you may think or say (either in real life or your fantasy world on this forum), a 21 year old woman is NOT a child, and she can date and/or have sex with whomsoever she pleases.  It is not up to you, or your imaginary friends, to dictate how your ADULT children behave.  If their choices are bad, they will learn from them - we all have.  If their choices are good, you should rejoice.  Of course they may pick really lousy lovers/spouses - they may also pick superb ones.

A 21 year old may in the eyes of the law be an adult, but, from an emotional or psychological perspective, she is not.  That is why FP referred to them as "kids", and I agree.

A "superb" man 25 years older will not chase a 21 year old to begin with.

[Boethius]

Just remember that for the last 10 years I have been living what you've just now began to fantasize about.

Except for the half your age (or more) part.

[Boethius]

I'd also ask surf, based on descriptions in your posts, are you:

a)  Catholic?;
b)  member of the Church of LDS?; or
c)  Muslim?

Because if you are any of the above, finding a woman in Central or Eastern Ukraine who will share your faith will be difficult.  Most view Catholicism negatively, LDS even more so, and Islam yet more so.  If you are Catholic, you could find a woman in Western Ukraine, the other two faiths, not so much.

[Gator]

....for me this is a 7....8.....9

Your "9" has huge fake breasts. 

What is wrong with your "8"?

Every man seeks true love, yet few receive and keep it.  I believe you will develop a real relationship with your next woman if you focus not on her physical qualities but on her immeasurably larger set of inner qualities, particularly how you interact.    With such a woman you may be able to earn and keep true love.

How to do this?  I suggest you select 7s and higher, write them, Skype them, and go with the woman who touches your soul.  If a "7" is beneath you, seek professional counseling for a lack of confidence or whatever it is that ails you.     

[dragonkid]

Your "9" has huge fake breasts. 

What is wrong with your "8"?

Every man seeks true love, yet few receive and keep it.  I believe you will develop a real relationship with your next woman if you focus not on her physical qualities but on her immeasurably larger set of inner qualities, particularly how you interact.    With such a woman you may be able to earn and keep true love.

How to do this?  I suggest you select 7s and higher, write them, Skype them, and go with the woman who touches your soul.  If a "7" is beneath you, seek professional counseling for a lack of confidence or whatever it is that ails you.   

I can get a 7 with ease in uk, why should i got to fsu and get a 7 there? My last ex was better than the 8, i turned down a girl with a face of a 9, i don't want to live my life in regret.Going over the mistakes i have made, i rather take my time, date someone that would make me feel grateful that i waited. I can find an 8 that will touch my soul, blah blah blah.  Why don't you date western women? Of course i want a woman that has a good personality. I am looking for the intersect where i reach the limit in terms of looks, where anything more would be women i am incompatible with.

[GatoMoon]

Your "9" has huge fake breasts. 

What is wrong with your "8"?

Every man seeks true love, yet few receive and keep it.  I believe you will develop a real relationship with your next woman if you focus not on her physical qualities but on her immeasurably larger set of inner qualities, particularly how you interact.    With such a woman you may be able to earn and keep true love.

How to do this?  I suggest you select 7s and higher, write them, Skype them, and go with the woman who touches your soul.  If a "7" is beneath you, seek professional counseling for a lack of confidence or whatever it is that ails you.   

I, the photo, must be a 10 then

[Gator]

I can get a 7 with ease in uk

And none of the million or so 7s in the UK were good enough?   That speaks volumes.  As some pointed out, it also says you are very young - another term for not fully developed. 

i rather take my time, date someone that would make me feel grateful that i waited.

 

Preferably you will find a woman who makes you feel happy,  and she too. 

  I am looking for the intersect where i reach the limit in terms of looks, where anything more would be women i am incompatible with.

Confusing. That sounds more like a threshold than an intersect. 

[Morty]

Your "9" has huge fake breasts. 

You say it like it's a bad thing. 

I had an English girlfriend who was flat as Holland. She had implants and it completely boosted her self esteem. She became a lot more confident, self assured and happier. I don't see anything wrong with the 9 DK posted. They aren't absurdly big and I wouldn't chuck her out of bed for them.

[Patagonie]

FIRST : if you have already 5 childs and don't want more why are you chasing gals between 23 and 27???? 
You need to reconsider your target range with women who already have one or two, or aim women of forty or more.

Hi all - I'm new to these forums (posting at least).  Wanted to post my experience, hoping it can help some, but also I hope that some of you can help shed light on my experience so I will know whether to believe what I'm being told now by one girl or not.

I read about http://bridesofukraine.com/ agency in another forum on this website (I think it was like dating ukrainian women 101 or something).  Someone posted there recommending that agency as one of a few in Ukraine that was legit.  I began talking to them about a month ago, selecting girls on their website I wanted to meet.  Flew to Odessa last week and got there late Wednesday (May 25, 2016), was there for only 3 days (I'll explain why below), dated 4 girls that the agency set me up with for a fee of $70 each.  Interpreters would show up with the girl & I paid the interpreter $20/hr USD cash at the end of each date. 

SECOND : prices are too much expansive but Daria seems out of the usual crownd (95% of ukrainian agencies being an entire scam, especially in Odessa), needs to be confirmed.

I asked Daria (my contact at Brides of Ukraine .... she's a 23 yr old single Ukranian girl who seems sincere & honest) whether any of these girls had a direct relationship with her agency - she dodged the question a few times, then answered "No - all girls on our website are with other agencies & we have relationships with all agencies all over Ukraine - only the honest ones."  She has known that I have been very skeptical the entire time I've been talking to her.  For me, I've read so many things online about the scams that I assumed it was all fake.  But I fly free on American Airlines (gets me most of the way there), and this agency only charged me $70 per meeting, so I figured worst case scenario I could finally (after years of wanting to do this) come see what it was all about & if nothing else, at least explore Odessa.  My original plan was to also go to Kiev and date some women there. 

Anyway, Daria gave me a list of restaurants to avoid b/c they have a "double menu" where they charge westerners more than locals, and she said that if the girls try to decide where we will eat and try to take me to one of these places & run up the bill, don't let them. 

My first 3 meetings were disappointing.  Its one thing to connect on Match.com or Tinder with a girl in my city in the USA & meet for lunch or a walk in a park & find that she doesn't look much like her pictures.  It an entirely different thing to fly thousands of miles, take time off work, spend money to get there, etc & then show up and see someone that looks really different.  I had even seen "natural photos" of the girls before meeting them .... b/c their pics on the BridesofUkraine.com website are all professionally taken w/good lighting, angles, makeup, etc.  But the first 3 didn't look nearly as good as even their natural photos did, and one of them had hair shorter than most men's hair that was auburn ... when her pics had this gorgeous long blond hair ... I took pics at lunch of her face, and I really don't even think it was the same girl.  All 3 of these girls gave me their phone #s & said they wanted to go out again, chat on whatsapp or viber, and hoped i would come back soon.  All 3 of these were fine when I told them where I wanted to go to eat with them on the date. 

I'm 46 & regularly date women that are 24-33 in the US - so the girls I met with in Odessa were 23-27.


Here's the thing: I have no idea if some of the $70 and some of the $20/hr for the interpreter is being paid to these girls to get them to show up, text later, try to get me back on a 2nd and 3rd date with the same interpreter, etc.  Daria (at bridesof ukraine.com) has known I have been very skeptical since I first contacted her.

Her response is always the same "If they were getting paid, all would accept your offer to meet, but only a small number of the girls you've sent us agreed to meet you"  --- Sounds right.  But then I think, maybe some girls in their DB were never real Odessa women; others may have been years ago but may be married now or have moved elsewhere, and others could just be busy or temporarily out of town when I was there, etc. 

This is my biggest question - were these girls getting paid to meet me?  Wish there was a way to know.  Wish I could really know whether these girls spoke english or not.  I tested them a little when the interpreter went to the bathroom, and 3 fo the 4 could communicate with me a bit, not great (unless they were faking?). 

THAT'S GOOD TO BE SUSPISCIOUS BUT WHEN YOU WILL BE MORE EXPERIENCED YOU WILL LOWER THIS BEHAVIOR BECAUSE IT SWEATS SOME LACK OF FEAT, but that's ok for a beginner

Long story short, my 4th date showed up looking amazing.  Different than her pics, but probably same girl, and either way, absolutely drop dead gorgeous.  Daria gave me this one free (i.e. no $70 charge) b/c #3 girl looked so different from pics.  But when I told her where I wanted to go, she had the interpreter tell me to get in the cab, she wanted to go to a restaurant she has always heard of but never been to ... and of course, the sucker that I am for beautiful women, I agreed & jumped in (it was raining so would have been hard to debate while we were getting soaked). 

This restaurant was nicer and more expensive than the one I was suggested to her when we met.  She ordered appetizers (to run up the bill?) but then she served me food from the appetizer plates onto my plate .... something nobody has ever done for me on a date in my life.  Very nice - felt like she genuinely wanted to take care of me, to serve me.  OR, just trying to get me to eat lots & order lots to run up the bill?  You can see I have been super skeptical of this entire thing.  But the whole reason I invested the money to go to the Ukraine after years of wondering whether this is all real or not is b/c a close friend of mine who lived in the Ukraine for a couple of years recently married a girl from there ... and she is drop dead gorgeous, at least 3 numbers higher than he could pull in the US (I know, bc I have been with him at week long social events & seen him struggle socially).  So, for him at least, she really did want to move to the US, and it worked to help him marry at a higher level than he could have in the US.

SHE DRIVES THE GAME, ALL THE GAME AND HER INTEREST WILL VANISH AS YOU WILL BECOME A COMPLETE PUPPIE

Anyway, I loved this 4th girl's personality.  Super playful and fun, maybe even a little flirty?  Different from the other 3.  We seemed to hit it off.  Then my skepticism kicked in and I think "Daria (the agent I was working with), knew I was fed up after the first 3 and about to bail on the agency ... so did she direct this 4th date to be extra flirty, to keep me hooked in?  So, after lunch she said she had 1 more hour, so I suggested we go to a museum.  She knew of a wax museum across the street from our restaurant, so we went with the interpreter.  Super fun.  She was even more playful, seemed to find excuses to touch my arm, etc ... clear signals of interest if I was on a reg date in the US.  Anyway, we had a great time, but I just have such a hard time believing that this is real b/c she is so amazing etc & even tho I am athletic and I do pretty well in the usa, this girl is a 10, and she's 24 yrs old, and there is no way in the US I pull women like this ... so I don't want to get my hopes up. 

At end of date I ask for her number, she doesn't give it.  Says she doesn't have whatsapp or viber (which everyone there seemed to have), says we can email.  Email????  Instantly my mind thinks "scam ... pay per letter to be translated ..." but we emailed a couple times using google translate.  Her messages are short.  Mine are long.  I told her (in person & email) that if we get onto a chat/text app & communicate lots in the next few weeks, I'll come back in June & we can do fun stuff together like we talked about when we found we had common interests (karaoke, skydiving, horseback riding, etc).  She emails that she really wants to do those things & looks forward to seeing me in June.  Keeps telling me she will get whatsapp but doesn't.  Then finally today (a few days after our date) she emails me her skype ID.  I messaged her on it, ... haven't heard back yet.  She's supposedly on a family vacation to Lviv.  I have asked twice for her to send me fun selfies of her in Lviv ... would like proof she is really there. 

SHE HAS OTHER CARDS IN HER GAME AND SHE PLAYS THE GAME, AS THE SUMMER IS COMING SHE HAS DOZENS OF PROPOSITIONS TO GO EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD. AND YOUNG UKRAINIAN WOMEN ARE ALL FOND OF TRAVELS.

I was planning on meeting other women, but once I met her, and we both told each other at end of date we were really into each other & wanted to see where it could go, there was no reason for me (or motivation) to meet other women.  I told her this face to face on the date.  I said something like "I don't know you well, but from what I do know, I am not interested in having more dates while I am here.  If you aren't serious, please tell me now, but if you are genuinely interested in dating me & seeing what we can build together, then I will call my agency right when our date ends and cancel all remaining meetings with girls they have set up, and since you are leaving tonight for Lviv with your family and we can't go out again while I was planning on being here, there is no reason for me to stay in town."  She insisted she was interested, so I cancelled all other dates & left Odessa.

WHY DOES SHE NEED TO BE SERIOUS AFTER ONE HOUR OF MEETING? SHE DON'T KNOW YOU YET AND SHE DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE HER SCREAM IN THE BED.

I've told her a couple times that if we text regularly on skype/whatsapp/viber (one of these) during the next 3 weeks, I will come to Odessa in June instead of touring parts of europe that I had already planned to visit in June.  If I stick to my guns on that, then I think this will resolve itself.  If she uses one of those apps and is actively communicating with me, like we all naturally do when we are genuinely interested in someone, then I'll go back & date her more, and not worry that she is using me to take her skydiving or horseback riding, or to get paid part of the ongoing interpreter fees (also, if I go back and use an interpreter on our dates, I'll hire and bring my own interpreter.  I should have required this with my agency for all initial meetings, but Daria insisted that the other agency that supplies the girl has to provide the interpreter - that this is how it is done.)

So, maybe none of you will read all of this - but it was therapeutic to write lol.   I would be done for life if this girl ends up being everything she seems to be.  But at this point, I am about 90-95% skeptical & thinking this is a scam, and the other part of me hopes it is real. 

My trip to Odessa did, at least, confirm a few things for me that I now know for sure - beyond any doubt.

1) There are an incredibly high percentage of women in Odessa walking around that have long hair, beautiful faces, and fit bodies.  I'd say in most states in the US, maybe 5-10% of women qualify like this.  In Odessa, it was like 65-70% - unreal.  Seems like they all have the exact same genetics when it came to body type ... they all wore tight jeans & almost every woman has thin toned legs.  Incredible.

CORRECT

2) Many of these women were coupled up with average or below average looking men.  I saw this a lot.  Stands out b/c in the US you would never see that.

CORRECT

3) Many women there are coupled up with much older men.  (saw this lots in Odessa, then had a layover in Kiev last night, went to dinner near airport, very cool restaurant with excellent food, and only other table occupied was men in 50s and women in late 20s or early 30s - very attractive girls, very average men, but maybe they had money.
CORRECT

What I wasn't able to confirm, and in fact my experience there, albeit short, seems to deny this claim, was the idea that Ukrainian women want to marry a western man.  If that was the case, then why is it that when I approached women on the street, in a club, at Arcadia (an outdoor arcade/restaurant/nightlife area near the beaches of the black sea), didn't any of them want to talk to me?  If meeting and possibly marrying an american is so desired by women here, why couldn't I get the time of day when approaching women?  It was worse than my success/failure ratio in the US when I approach women like that.  Weird - but made me wonder if very few women here want that.  I know that for me, back in the US, if an English or Aussie girl was to talk to me, her accent would increase the hotness factor by at least 1 lol.

NOT SO MUCH, FEW WANT TO MARRY TO A FOREIGNER, MANY FANCY TO MARRY A LOCAL ONE. TRADITIONAL AGENCIES' BS

Also, I've had a paid Tinder account for a while, and have also used fdating.com to contact girls in Odessa and Kiev long before coming here.  In the US, I get dates with girls I'm interested in from Tinder or FB occasionally.  But I rarely matched with girls on Tinder that I liked that were in Odessa or Kiev - and when I did, most ignored messages (just as girls do in US).  So, again, if women there are so interested in western men, why didn't I have more success on Tinder or on fDating.com?
PHOTOS IN AGENCIES ARE ONE THING, REAL LIFE IS DIFFERENT

BTW - to preempt those of you chomping at the bit to rip on me as a shallow, physical-appearance-fixated-blah-blah-blah ... save your breath.   I'm fully aware that a woman's character, her personality, our common lifestyles, interests, etc are much more important than physical looks when it comes to making a long term relationship work.  But I can land a 7 or 8 that is 15 years younger than me in the US anytime ... one with the character etc that I'm looking for ... so for me, I'm looking in the Ukraine to land a woman on a level I can't attract/land in the US.
RAISE THE AGE OR BE READY TO HAVE A SIXTHIEST BABY

OK - rant over.  Tired.  Will likely need to seriously edit this & clarify it tomorrow when not so sleep deprived. 

But I'd love to hear thoughts from those of you more experienced with this stuff.  Did I get scammed?  If so, what's the play now?  Why is she emailing me still?  OR, do you think my #4 girl is legit?  The solid 10 who is 24 yrs old that supposedly doesn't want to have children (b/c I have 5 and she knows I don't want to start over & have more) ... she wants to date and maybe marry me and move to US with me? 

DROP ASAP THIS GIRL, SCHEDULE ASAP AN OTHER TRAVEL OF 17 DAYS WITH MORE PROFESSIONALS PEOPLE AND TARGET women more than 27, if possible women with at least a child or women more than 40 without any child

What do you think?

[dragonkid]

And none of the million or so 7s in the UK were good enough?   That speaks volumes.  As some pointed out, it also says you are very young - another term for not fully developed. 

Just because a 7 is good for you, doesn't mean we should all stick to what is acceptable for you. There are plenty single american women, why go to russia? I am young, you are older, but an old man that is a hypocrite, may die remaining as a fool.

Preferably you will find a woman who makes you feel happy,  and she too. 

message i got today,she messaged me first, from a woman looking for a guy, she states she wants an attractive man, no guys over 35. I haven't taken good pics, i want to reword my profile, sounds very boring, yet i am doing fine. I have not put my heart into the search yet, still lots of sites i am going to join, i am waiting to sort some things out in my life first. I got to set the foundations of my life, then i am going to russia, and will take my search seriously, looking to spend 2 years.At the moment, rest assured, i am taking it easy, not expecting anything. I really have no need to widen my search, i am considering women 8.5+, i feel that is a good number for me, i don't feel limited to picking a small bunch of women, plenty to choose from, especially when i decide to go serious about my search.

[Gator]

Just because a 7 is good for you, doesn't mean we should all stick to what is acceptable for you. There are plenty single american women, why go to russia? I am young, you are older, but an old man that is a hypocrite, may die remaining as a fool.

Hypocrite!? Old man!?  LOL 

Much of the advice us old people give is not derived from always being right, but from having made many mistakes in life and learning how to not repeat them.  Sporadically reading your posts suggests you have many mistakes awaiting you in the future.  I hope you will learn from them.

Back to my remarkably fulfilling life, but after a few posts elsewhere. 

[treadmilldude]

Gator, you are not old. Just "Chronologically Challenged". 

I will say that Boethius is whipping you over the last few days in terms of handing out lots of outstanding advice. You don't want Boethius to lap you too many times Gator, so let's pick up the pace young guy.

[dragonkid]

Hypocrite!? Old man!?  LOL 

Don't you understand? Are you just ignorant or just plain arrogant? You could of dated an american woman who was genuinely interested in you, but you chose russia as you find the women attractive. Not exactly hard to understand, but does make you a hypocrite for judging me, because i set my standards higher than what you would deem acceptable. I can find plenty women at 8.5+, i can pick the ones that have a good personality.

Much of the advice us old people give is not derived from always being right, but from having made many mistakes in life and learning how to not repeat them.  Sporadically reading your posts suggests you have many mistakes awaiting you in the future.  I hope you will learn from them.

what makes you think my search is solely going to be down to looks? Because i state i want a hot female rather than fool others by beating around the bush? I rejected a 9 for my ex, i even once seriously considered a 7 till i found out she was in a relationship. Let me give you some advice, to find someones true side, give them power, go for the person that has everything, and still picks you.

[JohnDearGreen]

sorry, but I didn't have time to read all the messages here.  so I'll skip to the bottom line:
>>What do you think?


I think you should have followed Daria's advice:
>> if the girls try to decide where we will eat ... don't let them
If you had taken control of the situation and told her you would find the place for dinner,
you could have possibly found out in one evening her level of interest.

[GatoMoon]

You say it like it's a bad thing. 

I had an English girlfriend who was flat as Holland. She had implants and it completely boosted her self esteem. She became a lot more confident, self assured and happier. I don't see anything wrong with the 9 DK posted. They aren't absurdly big and I wouldn't chuck her out of bed for them.

My ex-girlfriend from Colombia who had small breasts - was shy, etc.  After she had her breasts enlargement, she was a different girl - not only she became over confident, but also very unfaithful, sleeping with many men.


So it is not always a good thing to have their breasts enlargements

[Gator]

Gator, you are not old. Just "Chronologically Challenged". 

I will say that Boethius is whipping you over the last few days in terms of handing out lots of outstanding advice. You don't want Boethius to lap you too many times Gator, so let's pick up the pace young guy.

Boethius is wise and knows more than me.  This is because she is older than me.  That's a joke - you know how women enjoy jokes about their age.  They also want to be told when they are wrong so they can improve.  LOL

The value in RWD lies in receiving diverse advice to sort through and ponder.  Only you know what is best for your situation. 

[Gator]

You say it like it's a bad thing. 

Ha Ha.  Bad?  Never.    Some are so good I would place one on the dashboard of my car to have something to do when stuck in traffic.   Plus women having implants appreciate a man who knows how to massage them to prevent capsular contracture.   

In the search for perfection, I would have thought Dragonkid would seek "all natural" provided they were well suspended. 

I don't see anything wrong with the 9 DK posted. They aren't absurdly big and I wouldn't chuck her out of bed for them.

Maybe that was why he deemed her only a 9.  Personally, I liked his 8.  She looked like enthusiastic fun too. 

[dragonkid]

Ha Ha.  Bad?  Never.    Some are so good I would place one on the dashboard of my car to have something to do when stuck in traffic.   Plus women having implants appreciate a man who knows how to massage them to prevent capsular contracture.   

In the search for perfection, I would have thought Dragonkid would seek "all natural" provided they were well suspended. 



Maybe that was why he deemed her only a 9.  Personally, I liked his 8.  She looked like enthusiastic fun too.

I actually just liked her face, bib boobs isn't really big for me, or the body. Those two you can fix, if the woman is willing to, not that i would suggest her to do so 


for me this is a 9 also, at 20:10

[Anotherkiwi]

A 21 year old may in the eyes of the law be an adult, but, from an emotional or psychological perspective, she is not.

Why not?  I know many women of that age who I would consider far more emotionally adult than people I know who are in their forties or fifties, and who are well capable of taking care of any of their needs (psychological or otherwise).  Of course there are also many who still act like 12 year olds, but you can't generalise - everyone is different.

That is why FP referred to them as "kids", and I agree.

It doesn't matter how old you are, you're still a kid to your parents.  Most people will still also refer to "boys" and "girls" in certain contexts, even when the people being referred to are themselves parents or grandparents (e.g. "The Golden Girls").

A "superb" man 25 years older will not chase a 21 year old to begin with.

If the real qualities are there, true love can still strike in such cases, even though you (and others) may look askance at it.  It may also not always be the older man doing the chasing, although the motives of such a chaser may not always be pure! 

[ML]

You experienced dating a 1/10? i am not sure what to say.

She was a 'three sacker.'

[Boethius]

Why not?  I know many women of that age who I would consider far more emotionally adult than people I know who are in their forties or fifties, and who are well capable of taking care of any of their needs (psychological or otherwise).  Of course there are also many who still act like 12 year olds, but you can't generalise - everyone is different.

Think of yourself at 21, versus today. 

It doesn't matter how old you are, you're still a kid to your parents.  Most people will still also refer to "boys" and "girls" in certain contexts, even when the people being referred to are themselves parents or grandparents (e.g. "The Golden Girls").

You're grasping at straws.  Yes, I am still my parents' child, but they would not think of me as a "kid".  They treat me as an adult and an equal.  Except when it comes to disciplining my children, though the older two are now adults, so we don't discipline them anymore.
 

It may also not always be the older man doing the chasing, although the motives of such a chaser may not always be pure! 

But a man of quality will recognize that a kid is chasing him, and resist the advances.  Muzh did just that when a physician he worked with wanted a relationship.  He has posted about it here.  The only impediment was her age, and she was older than 21!

[msmobyone]

BTW the ' nine ' ..



is Irina Shayk 

Even this 'ol git knows she's a '10' ...'falsies' or not 

http://latestplasticsurgery.com/irina-shayk-plastic-surgery-before-and-after-photos/


Which right thinking guy gives a stuff what others think about what makes a '10', any way ... ?


But please don't stop - This thread makes for hilarious reading - some of the 'advice / opinions' on here suggests quite a few posters need  check-ups from the neck up ..