Why not to date Ukrainian women

[dragonkid]

>If you want a FSUW to stick to you....

I’ve been married to a Ukrainian woman for over 16 years, did exactly the opposite of what you just recommended.  Gave my wife complete freedom to do whatever the hell she wants to do, helped her get a college education (helped her on her homework and thesis!) and helped her to start her own business.  We have 2 children together and have a great loving relationship, I trust her 100% with finances and everything else as well.  She is 15 years younger than me but we have no age related issues.  I’ve seen marriages where one spouse tried to control the other end up in divorce when the one being controlled had their resentment build-up to the breaking point, my wife and I respect each other’s choices and differences, we each have family responsibilities, but we support each other and our children, everything is in harmony, and death will be the only thing that will separate us, make your choices wisely, as Abraham Lincoln once said, “those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves”

You are one of the lucky ones who knows how to treat a woman well. Like i said before, a fsuw will be willing to give her husband a chance to prove himself. If he doesn't meet up to her expectations she can be ice cold. It is like any marriage, you don't know the person very well, especially if you spent minimal time together. If she feels you are not right for her, she will be gone. I don't believe the whole mule theory, but i do believe fsuw will give their partner a chance very early in the relationship, she will tell herself that if he doesn't fix up, she will leave, and live comfortably in the west.

[krimster2]

yes, you're right, luck is a factor, choose well, if you choose wrong, all the luck in the world won't be enough to help you, choose a person who is genuine and honest, and consistant

[dragonkid]

yes, you're right, luck is a factor, choose well, if you choose wrong, all the luck in the world won't be enough to help you, choose a person who is genuine and honest, and consistant

Luck was a poor word, you create your own luck. Out of interest, how old were you at the time?

[krimster2]

over 40

[Trenchcoat]

You are one of the lucky ones who knows how to treat a woman well. Like i said before, a fsuw will be willing to give her husband a chance to prove himself. If he doesn't meet up to her expectations she can be ice cold. It is like any marriage, you don't know the person very well, especially if you spent minimal time together. If she feels you are not right for her, she will be gone. I don't believe the whole mule theory, but i do believe fsuw will give their partner a chance very early in the relationship, she will tell herself that if he doesn't fix up, she will leave, and live comfortably in the west.

Does she let the guy know what she wants and how much? or just expect the guy to automatically know. Are we talking about stuff agreed to by both before marriage, kids, nice home or new demands/expectations, education, car, expenses, etc for the wife.

[dragonkid]

Does she let the guy know what she wants and how much? or just expect the guy to automatically know. Are we talking about stuff agreed to by both before marriage, kids, nice home or new demands/expectations, education, car, expenses, etc for the wife.

It is not always to do with money, if you don't meet her needs financially she will go, but fsuw are not all that materialistic, they just want to live in comfort. Russia has the high infidelity, and a lot of women divorce due to financial reasons, i read the studies. Guys i am referring to who had failed marriages to fsuw, who might find on here have come out of divorces with Western women, some not their fault, but  some are, some even have multiple divorces, so they are bound to get divorced again. Sometimes she just can't deal with the guy, and put up with his crap, she just waits till she can escape. 

Well talking to my ex, she liked the idea of us living in russia, she actually preferred it in a way. We didn't have the expenses of living in UK, and could live much more comfortably for less, she could be with her family, and cats I once proposed the idea of buying a farm in her city, which would be around £10k-£15k i believe, she liked it very much.She didn't tell me her expenses openly, i had to force it out of her, but from what i understood she wanted to go abroad once a year,which she was doing already, but she didn't want to depend on her parents,she liked buy some clothes now and then , she was actually selling clothes via instagram, clothes/shoes etc would probably be like £100 a month tops, she was actually thinking of £50 a month, but i was relieved she didn't have expensive taste. She liked to live in comfort, her parents gave her a flat, she spent £3k on the kitchen, and she was very proud, she said these are the sort of things she liked, she was buying a car for £2k also. Now in her city, average salary is £150 a month, how many guys can meet her needs? A lot more than you think, she lived near Chechnya, plenty of money there, guys in her city were driving cars that put London and Moscow to shame, Funny thing is her family friend worked in oil and gas, bringing in £3k-£5k a month, i knew the guy, we went out a few times, he saw me and suddenly marriage proposal came into play. He was always joking about getting married to her infront of me, saying how she was his true love, nobody knew we were dating, but they could tell something was going on. i asked her why doesn't she take it, she didn't want to say, but i knew she wasn't attracted to the guy, a girl like her 5'11, could find a rich guy easy, she told me she had offers before, but she didn't want to marry a 40-year-old.

I genuinely believe being an expat is the best move, you are not tied down legally, you can get to know the woman. At least she won't stay with you till she can build a life for herself in the west, you remove that option. If she doesn't like you, she will walk, save you a lot of hassle with a sexless marriage. Bad thing is, your dating pool is limited, most women are looking to escape, only the genuine ones will be happy to remain in Russia with you, and live an average lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, not all marriages will end in failure, some are very successful, but some are also successful because of an iron-clad prenup, and the woman not being able to provide for herself.

[Trenchcoat]

DK you come out with some surprisingly good advice sometimes. Putting across the idea of living together in her country sure would remove problems some have later with the woman just going with them to get the hell out of there. I think it's probably possible to live out there if your English is not good so long as you can bring money in on something where she can do any necessary talking in the native language, that or be a rich stockbroker, hah hah.

The advice you gave recently about women being scammers to guys they are not into and not to the one they find they are is also very valid I think.

I think there are two extremes between a woman ending up a sex slave and the other extreme of the woman taking the guy for all its worth. End of the day I think the amount that all this can cost which I'm not sure the girl always appreciates, a guy will have to consider the risk as if she turns out to be ruthless she could really destroy his life, particularly financially.

Pretty girlfriend btw, not sure from photo that there would be any chemistry if I had met her though. Only really reveals itself when meeting though maybe. 

[dragonkid]

I think expat route is good for people that have online dealings, and passive income. The UK courts in regards to prenups is laughable, just like any other country

0 to 5 years = Dream on you won't get a penny
5+ to 10 years = I will fight you till the end!!!
10+ = Please be gentle, i love you baby

If a person has something worth to lose, he should just be an expat. To be honest, i don't want to take the gamble. Guys willing to take the risk, have themselves well protected, i can't rely on it. I was talking to my brother, we both agreed marrying a fsuw will probably end up with divorce, he suggested i should just live abroad and take it easy.

[Boethius]

Why would you become an expat and give up your income earning potential in the West, plus have to deal with the corruption of Russia or Ukraine on a daily basis?  If you are this risk adverse, then it is best to not marry.

[alex330]

Why would you become an expat and give up your income earning potential in the West, plus have to deal with the corruption of Russia or Ukraine on a daily basis?

It makes more sense for many these days to live overseas actually. Income is not affected when you work online or have passive sources and the cost of living is much less. With rising costs in the West many are leaving and living better lives overseas.

[dragonkid]

It makes more sense for many these days to live overseas actually. Income is not affected when you work online or have passive sources and the cost of living is much less. With rising costs in the West many are leaving and living better lives overseas.

"rich dad poor dad", doesn't matter how much you earn, it is how much you save and invest that counts. If i do get married, i will probably come back to the UK,  just take my time, understand if the woman i am with is really right for me. Most of the divorced guys i talked to told me, they just didn't spend enough time with their partners. I know if i have kids i will definitely get married, too much emotional rollercoaster for me to resist not to.

[Trenchcoat]

The UK courts in regards to prenups is laughable, just like any other country

True and in fact worse than other countries since they have no legal standing in the UK unless the divorce court decides to recognize it/take it into account.

Personally, I'm not sure if expat would work for me at present moment in time, it would depend to circumstance - if the woman could front up as translator in a worthwhile venture, etc. As Boethius correctly states income earning potential in the west is a consideration, particularly if little to no passive income from stocks & shares, etc.

I would at least get a certified account from an accountant of state of finances before marriage in the UK, this might not protect but may help in the divorce court, a prenup if not too damaging to the relationship/awkward also. This page is useful on UK divorce court situation:

http://www.divorceaid.co.uk/financial/index2.html

As you US guys can see, the guy can be brought to his knees in the UK divorce courts, perhaps even worse than US, little protection for the guy at all, particularly if kids are involved she can take him for his house and all, note the:

"The court has wide powers to make financial orders as it sees fit. The court can divide assets and even order a property to be signed over to the other spouse even if that name was not on the original deeds."

and the:

"5. A property adjustment order - The court has the power to sign a property over to one spouse, usually to the mother when there are children, or to alter a party's share in the property. " 

They can literally take your house and give it to her! Shocking, never mind after the kids have grown up in a few years and moved out - she will still have ownership odds are.

In a full bona fide marriage some of this may be justified/reasonable - but if it is a girl who is just on the make she can unjustly deprive a guy of his wealth and standard of living that belonged to him, not her.

I agree, I think the 'financial contract' that is all a marriage is in the eyes of the law in the UK is too onerous - certified accounts of each persons assets should be a pre-requisite of a marriage with that forming the main basis of any divorce, allowing for proper child support of course.

Of course as far as RW is concerned marriage is the only way for her to live in the UK pretty much so there is not much other choice, of course if she gets pregnant before hand it might help in her not buggering off.

[dragonkid]

I know some expats who said they never felt so good about a move from west to fsu. Surrounded by beautiful women, no pressure to get married in a rush, you can date, spend years with the same woman before deciding whether she is good for you. I wouldn't want to raise my kids in russia past 16 years old, let them do their A levels, and go to university back in UK. I know there are guys eager to save up money to live off the passive income from their investments and setup in fsu.

Many relationships breaking down after 4 years together, makes you think the marriages that stick it out because of kids. Average sex in marriages is 3 times per month, now imagine if you have a rocky marriage because you got married too quick, and your fsuw doesn't love you because you didn't live up to her expectations. I am going to get married, but my plan with my ex was to spend a year or 2 year with her in person, but if i am living as an expat, ideally i would like to spend 5 before marriage and kids. There is really no rush for a guy under 40. As long as you keep yourself fit, save and invest, age is a mans best friend,not a woman's.

[GregfromGa]

I can honestly say that there is nothing impressive about the attitude of the lady in the video. In America these days it most certainly almost always takes two. Living in a flat that was handed down by parents and taking public transportation ones entire life doesn't prepare the majority of these ladies for life here. I can name off bout a dozen bills or more that they never knew might exist. That whole independence thing is bs when you throw common sense and logic out the window. I certainly dont want to lump all the lovely FSU ladies on this board and elsewhere into what this lady is saying but her attitude is a disaster. I would venture to say that the ladies on this board that I have come to know over the years have acclimated socially and stayed humble.

[Gator]

I know some expats who said they never felt so good about a move from west to fsu. Surrounded by beautiful women, no pressure to get married in a rush, you can date, spend years with the same woman before deciding whether she is good for you. I wouldn't want to raise my kids in russia past 16 years old, let them do their A levels, and go to university back in UK. I know there are guys eager to save up money to live off the passive income from their investments and setup in fsu.

Many relationships breaking down after 4 years together, makes you think the marriages that stick it out because of kids. Average sex in marriages is 3 times per month, now imagine if you have a rocky marriage because you got married too quick, and your fsuw doesn't love you because you didn't live up to her expectations. I am going to get married, but my plan with my ex was to spend a year or 2 year with her in person, but if i am living as an expat, ideally i would like to spend 5 before marriage and kids. There is really no rush for a guy under 40. As long as you keep yourself fit, save and invest, age is a mans best friend,not a woman's.

Roll eyes. 

[Jumper]

Think this topic is important though for most of us in that we o, ften don't think enough about how to secure a continuing relationship  i.e Marriage Issues when starting off. Mainly because without getting into a real relationship with a FSW its so far off.

Yet I've been wondering how best to go about helping to ensure a long lasting marriage?

I mean apart from the basics of trying to settle her in, routine, shared activity, etc.

For Example, is it best to live in an area where there are people from a similar background, i.e East Europeans

OR

Live in an area away from any possible temptation out a bit in the country in an area with an ageing population

- The first option might mean she ends up getting involved with some east European guy, while the second option may bore her to tears (even in a pleasant village type area with a fair few shops and odd few small facilities plus any entertainment possilities at home).

what do you guys think?

I think if a women has a wandering eye, or inclination to not be with you ,for any reason,   location will not play much roll in it.
 
Would that matter to any man , in those same shoes?

RW aren't a separate species, just another gender.


  I live in an area with a lot of Europeans, east,  west , what have you.
It's mostly a bonus , and the last thing i'd worry over is a Eastern European man.(or any man,  if a woman wanted to leave, she should do so ,the last thing i'd ever want is some woman that did not want to be with me)

Why is it a bonus?
1. Lots of restaurants, cafe's , or stores with products she was familiar with when she first arrived.
2. Its incredibly common to hear her native language most anywhere we'd go as far as public places ,like a cafe, beach, park,museum, zoo, or just around town in general.
While it is certainly no replacement for her home country,family and friends,  i'm sure it eased transition and culture shock slightly.
3. She has made a few good friends here over the years (6 years  now)
Generally she avoids Russian speaking people in public like they have the plague. I married an adult  that I fully  trust to make her own solid judgement on who to befriend,and who not too, regardless nationality of that person.
 
If a man  thinks he  needs to *guide* who his wife interacts with
(i've seen this thought posted many times) my advise would be to be more discerning on who you date or ultimately marry?

 Hiding out in the boonies for the intent of  limiting interaction with other people just smells very bad , no matter what excuse is used.

If marrying someone, get to know them well enough to know without any doubts that they LOVE you.Crazy about you, want to live thier life with you.(you should feel the same obviously)
That simple thing, would avoid 90% of the questions or problems that arise here. lol

Hey ,we may someday move to the boonies! As we both like nature and a quite  lifestyle, but one of the big drawbacks would be being away from friends in a more populated area.

[ML]

Jumper, I think you are overlooking the role of temptation.

Where there are no temptations . . . there is much less chance of even considering doing something.

I suspect there have been thousands and even millions of divorces over the centuries that happened between people who were truly in love with each other . . . until the tempter or temptress came along.

[Larry1]

Jumper, I think you are overlooking the role of temptation.

Where there are no temptations . . . there is much less chance of even considering doing something.

I suspect there have been thousands and even millions of divorces over the centuries that happened between people who were truly in love with each other . . . until the tempter or temptress came along.

I think I will once again join ML in the cynics' corner of RWD. I will quibble on one point. People who are very much in love probably won't stray even in the face of strong temptation. But I don't think couples such as this make up more than 5% of the married population.

[ML]

And just to follow up . . .

I am not worried about Ochka being out and about here because she is mainly interacting with male undergraduate students.

But if she were to suggest teaching an adult education class . . . then I would play the "NO WAY" card !!  :-))

[dragonkid]

People who are very much in love probably won't stray even in the face of strong temptation. But I don't think couples such as this make up more than 5% of the married population.

Very true, i believe love takes time, or you need to make the woman feel bloody well fortunate to have you in her life. Takes a long time for such feelings to develop, the latter is not so much, there is always plenty of suitors for her to choose from in the west. What i was suggesting was trapping a woman in a relationship, which i think is morally wrong thing to do. But majority of men don't want to admit that fsuw are searching for stability in their lives, so trapping her in a relationship may be something they feel nothing bad about. You and ML understand what these women are looking for very well, and can easily come to terms with it, without shying away.

[Boethius]

You cannot trap a person into an unhappy relationship, nor stop her from escaping by removing "temptation".

Unless they are looking for an upgrade in wealth, most women cheat because their emotional needs are not being met.  In those circumstances, they are going to cheat even if temptation is removed.  Unless she is locked up 24 hours a day.

[ML]

Unless she is locked up 24 hours a day.

Good suggestion . . . thanks.

Reminds . . .

The English Knight was going off to the crusades and gave the key to his wife's chastity belt to his best friend with admonishment to 'use only in emergency.'

When the Knight was on his horse and just outside the city limits, his friend comes galloping up on his horse and cries out . . . you gave me the wrong key !!

[Jumper]

And just to follow up . . .

I am not worried about Ochka being out and about here because she is mainly interacting with male undergraduate students.

But if she were to suggest teaching an adult education class . . . then I would play the "NO WAY" card !!  :-))

...and you answer suggests you agree with my take on it, more than disagree.

because i don't see you headed for the boonies for the *intent* of limiting temptation.

As far as the very specific reference to what she does , what classes she teaches, where she hangs out and spends her time, etc,
 versus where you'd live , isn't what i was refering to at all.

If you truly believe living out in the sticks would help in such temptations cases, then the divorce rates or infidelity rates would be
measurably different by location.
 I guess we would need to define *sticks*?
if there are zero neighbors for 150 miles i'd see your point.
If its any kind of normal town, its hard to believe there'd be much difference.

I believe certain occupations have a measurable difference, that's about it.
 

 

[Jumper]

You cannot trap a person into an unhappy relationship, nor stop her from escaping by removing "temptation".

Unless they are looking for an upgrade in wealth, most women cheat because their emotional needs are not being met.  In those circumstances, they are going to cheat even if temptation is removed.  Unless she is locked up 24 hours a day.

Maybe I'm identifying as feminine today, but for the life of me
I have no idea how any man, can think they are THAT different than a woman in this regard.

ML , so you'd be less likely to cheat in the boonies, or small town,  than in a city? by what degree? merely by population and amount of interaction?
If simple opportunity is the factor, or some factor of
time spent in reasonable proximity to other people,
then the equation becomes merely number of interaction over *time*.
 
So i'll stand by my earlier sentiment, that it just doesn't matter.
The only difference the boonies would make is how much time it took for the spouse to stray. Temptation will always be present, the amount varies by time frame.. is that what trenchcoat should base where he *brings* a RW too?

Remember we were talking moving to remote locations for the *intent* of dissuading interaction and cheating.

Sorry, to me that's  amusing at best.

I can assure you that living where I do, with thousands of eastern europeans in the area, is a positive, not a negative, in the scenario's Trenchcoat was asking about.

[ML]

Jumper, lighten up a bit.

Didn't you recognize what I was doing . . . in some of my remarks?  :-)