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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 95794 times)

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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1375 on: May 27, 2019, 01:07:49 PM »
uhmm

Don't know about you, but to me this looks like brexit parties won...quite clearly

'OK' ..

http://metro.co.uk/2019/05/27/pro-remain-parties-actually-won-votes-nigel-farages-brexit-party-9697278/

"Pro-remain parties actually won more votes than Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2019/05/27/pro-remain-parties-actually-won-votes-nigel-farages-brexit-party-9697278/?ito=cbshare



"Despite the Brexit Party’s landslide victory in the European Elections, pro-EU parties collectively got a high percentage of the vote.


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2019/05/27/pro-remain-parties-actually-won-votes-nigel-farages-brexit-party-9697278/?ito=cbshare

Despite the Brexit Party’s landslide victory in the European Elections, pro-EU parties collectively got a high percentage of the vote.


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2019/05/27/pro-remain-parties-actually-won-votes-nigel-farages-brexit-party-9697278/?ito=cbshare

"Despite the Brexit Party’s landslide victory in the European Elections, pro-EU parties actually won more votes " ..

Don't be a Silly BillyB and demonstrate daftness...



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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1376 on: May 27, 2019, 01:29:18 PM »
'OK' ..
removed drivel

Did I say ANYWHERE Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party won the most votes?

Are you incapable to take in the facts from the Tweet i posted?

I know you are shaking in your fundamental views right now that you have been wrong all this time, but that is not my fault, apparently all you "knew" about your countrymen and their wish to remain was wrong..

UK voted to leave once, and they showed once again they want to leave.. live with it.
Multitasking means screwing up several things at once.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1377 on: May 27, 2019, 01:33:28 PM »
The Fool is grasping at straws.

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1378 on: May 27, 2019, 05:24:25 PM »
The laughable Moby shows himself to be more deluded by the day.

Now he's quoting the freebie comic the Metro for his affirmation...LMAO.
Just saying it like it is.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1379 on: May 27, 2019, 11:56:38 PM »
Did I say ANYWHERE Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party won the most votes?

Re read what you suggest and your 'conclusion' below and we will see you even compound your howker...with the following STUPID question


Are you incapable to take in the facts from the Tweet i posted?

You had the FACTS.. Remain parties won more votes.. thebrexitparty.com are UKIP 1.1 and will figure as much in domestic politics as UKIP 1.0...

This is hilarious...and demonstrates why you should refrain from posting on stuff you do not understand..


I know you are shaking in your fundamental views right now that you have been wrong all this time, but that is not my fault, apparently all you "knew" about your countrymen and their wish to remain was wrong..

UK voted to leave once, and they showed once again they want to leave.. live with it.

1/ The first referendum was non binding and 'we' know far more about the find told by the remain campaign

2/ how much do you know about where the money comes from for Farage?

3/ how much do you know about why this mystery PayPal donors really want 'brexit'...?

Get back to us when you can answer these Q's..

For now, you are as clueless in this field as Trench was in Kyiv...



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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1380 on: May 28, 2019, 05:21:11 AM »
So there might be a possible General Election on the horizon, possibly more so if Boris as expected wins the Tory Leadership contest.

Who will you be voting for in the General Election Mobers, your Change UK? Lol, or have you already turncoated from them as you so often do with everything else burning any loyalty and principles to suit yourself.
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Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1381 on: May 28, 2019, 05:22:38 AM »
Change UK spent 200,000 GBP on Facebook ads alone.

It has now been discovered they spent more than any other party on the EU elections...it's all coming out on Sky News today.

Maybe Moby can tell us where they got all their money from ?



Maybe their remain offices need a visit from the Electoral Commission...ho hum.


Not that all that money did them any good LOL.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 05:26:32 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1382 on: May 28, 2019, 07:35:47 AM »

UK voted to leave once, and they showed once again they want to leave.. live with it.

Does it?  A clear Brexit supporting party won 29 seats.  Add the Tories to that, even though as a party, they are about equally split on Brexit.  That gives pro Brexiters 33 seats.

The Liberal Democrats, who oppose Brexit, won 16 seats.  Labour, also opposing Brexit and headed by an inept anti Semite, won 10 seats.  The Green Party, which opposes Brexit, won 7 seats.  SNP, which opposes Brexit, won 3 seats.  So, remain parties won 36 seats


In addition to the seats, the popular vote of UK voters (only a third of whom, I understand, voted) for the EU parliament breaks down as follows:

Remain parties - 8,332,472  of 15,093,172 votes, or 55.2% of the popular vote.

Brexit parties - 6,760,700 of 15,093,172 votes, or 44.8% of the popular vote.

Based on the above, I don't think moby's assertion is inaccurate.

Google was not used for this post, but seat counts and the popular vote (added by yours truly) were taken from the BBC.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 09:40:58 AM by Boethius »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1383 on: May 28, 2019, 07:59:33 AM »
Today Renault-Chrysler and Fiat announced a merger.  Two drowning people grabbing each other.  And the merger agreement promised to unions not to cut employees (a key benefit of mergers)!!!!!

This is emblematic of a sick European economy, ailments deriving from institutional/cultural constrains.   Not dead, yet not agile and quick.     

My question is why would British companies want to be part of such a lumbering system, unless most are also far from agile and welcome the stifling yet assured protection derived from a common market? 


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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1384 on: May 28, 2019, 09:25:32 AM »
And the merger agreement promised to unions not to cut employees (a key benefit of mergers)!!!!!

Big potential savings from horizontal mergers relates to white collar and managerial personnel, particularly those related to finance, accounting, computer systems, purchasing, product design, advertising, etc.  The numbers of these folks involved with both companies can often be cut almost in half after a combination because those functions can be ratcheted up in volume.  i.e. accounting computer programs can handle 2 billion just as easily as 1 billion.

So depends on how many of the white collar folks are unionized.  In USA, this would be virtually zero.

Conversely, if number of vehicles being produced is to remain the same, then very little cut in blue collar workers is possible anyway.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1385 on: May 28, 2019, 10:16:44 AM »
Today Renault-Chrysler and Fiat announced a merger.  Two drowning people grabbing each other.  And the merger agreement promised to unions not to cut employees (a key benefit of mergers)!!!!!

This is emblematic of a sick European economy, ailments deriving from institutional/cultural constrains.   Not dead, yet not agile and quick.     

My question is why would British companies want to be part of such a lumbering system, unless most are also far from agile and welcome the stifling yet assured protection derived from a common market?

))

Gator - which 'British' car company would you be referring TO ?

GM sold off their European car division to Peugeot  ..   

Nothing to do with 'Brexit' but shows t'other side of the pond - other than Ford - are mot players on the right side of the Pond ..


Ford are working with VW to product their next Transit / Transport vans..   ford are killing off the last version of the Mondeo - which was doomed  when Dearborn  told Europe it was designing it ;(

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1386 on: May 28, 2019, 03:11:24 PM »

Gator - which 'British' car company would you be referring TO ? ............

Not referring specifically to British car companies, but to 1) British companies in general and 2) whether they would do better if separated from the sick EU economy.  The entire world is slowing and is affecting the US. 

Regarding EU cars, the German cars are the king of the road.  Except the technology on my old Lexus is so much easier to use than than my wife's newer MB technology.   

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1387 on: May 28, 2019, 03:24:05 PM »
Haha, you tried to swerve..You KNOW there is no major car manufacturer left..

You swerved that there is only Ford left in Europe and they are partnering up and downsizing.

The UK realised that it specialises in tech and THAT is why 'we' would be dumb to make it hard to hire the best ..( leaving the EU)

I know how hard it is for a small company to attract and employ non EU whiz kids, already.((

The UK leads the world in racing cars that are involved in series all over the world...

Leaving the EU could smash the Formula 1 investment..

Most UK firms trading internationally do not want to leave..

It's a big con and some folks have not woken up....yet..

http://badboysofbrexit.com/

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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1388 on: May 28, 2019, 04:26:38 PM »
Haha, you tried to swerve..You KNOW there is no major car manufacturer left..

You swerved that there is only Ford left in Europe and they are partnering up and downsizing.

The UK realised that it specialises in tech and THAT is why 'we' would be dumb to make it hard to hire the best ..( leaving the EU)

I know how hard it is for a small company to attract and employ non EU whiz kids, already.((

The UK leads the world in racing cars that are involved in series all over the world...

Leaving the EU could smash the Formula 1 investment..

Most UK firms trading internationally do not want to leave..

It's a big con and some folks have not woken up....yet..

http://badboysofbrexit.com/

Funnily enough what Mobe fails to understand is that most of the population are concerned about bread and butter issues like where to find housing not the importation of whizz kids from abroad in preference to our own stock of whizz kids or about the state of affairs in formula 1 racing.

Mobe as a rich guy is just a touch out of touch with all of this.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1389 on: May 28, 2019, 06:21:35 PM »
Trench, if what any of what you posted is true../ factual.. then the population would be voting Labour .

As usual...you demonstrate such empathy with any subject..from politics to women...
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1390 on: May 28, 2019, 06:39:03 PM »

The Liberal Democrats, who oppose Brexit, won 16 seats. Labour, also opposing Brexit and headed by an inept anti Semite, won 10 seats.  The Green Party, which opposes Brexit, won 7 seats.  SNP, which opposes Brexit, won 3 seats.  So, remain parties won 36 seats



Labour does not oppose Brexit. In the past they did but their official position is to respect the referendum and are now for Brexit as long as the UK exits in a responsible way.

http://labour.org.uk/issues/labours-plan-brexit/

Everybody living in or near the UK on two forums disagrees with Moby. Add Labours 10 seats to the pro Brexit crowd and I understand why they say the Remainers got crushed. Leave 43 seats, remain 26 seats.

There are people that will pass info about you and your family. Do not share info about yourself or share photos as they can search for you on the internet and distribute what they found since they are allowed to participate here.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1391 on: May 29, 2019, 12:17:31 AM »
Incredible, Silly BillyB is STUPID enough to believe folks who support remain over FACT..

I suggest you stop reading their Bollox and check the linksI posted. Before you claim 'fake news' and make a bigger Pollock of yourself than usual, I must point out that in your little disagreement with Boethius neither of you are right...

The Labour 'leadership' have constantly been cautious about taking a side and the grass roots are remain...Labour have MPs..such as Kate Hoey who are LEAVE [ edited following Trenchie spotting my howler ! ]   

Moby the 'leftie' ( only Muppets like Silly BillyB believe this) strongly distrusts the Labour leadership on Brexit and historical inabilities to run the economy and they taxed my pension savings, when John Major persuaded me to invest in Pensions....   
As Boethius says, the 'leader'..way left of Bernie Sanders .. seems to have an issue with controlling anti-Semitism.

So, Labour are split on Brexit...neither leave or remain...but are more keen for a early general election.  If Corbyn comes out and states a final public vote on any 'deal/ no deal' is a must...it will only be as a result of the recent EU elections...( strength of remain vote )

Labour voters? Those that still voted for the party may be Remain overall in the same way...most Tories ( but NOT I ) are leave. ( I am a Europhile and cannot understand why 'Bastards' ( as John Major referred to them...seem to want to destroy Margaret Thatcher's party..


In conclusion...YES ...I am biased to leave...but only a total idiot would disagree that the clearly  remain parties got Five percent more than the clearly leave parties..

Labour and Conservatives (Tories) got a combined 20 percent..Labour beating the Tories ..

Perhaps, NOW ..wiser members will get it..

One can only guess how this twenty percent would vote...

In addition, the UK turnout was MUCH lower than the EU average.

Based on the HoC and HoL makeup and a HoC Speaker who has make it clear he will allow more votes on how the UK would leave including whether a 'no deal' would be permitted..

In conclusion..my 50 quid  wager us open to anyone..  I am more certain than ever
, given the election result..

The UK will not leave with a 'no deal'...a compromise or not leaving at all are more realistic.




« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 02:03:15 AM by msmob »
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1392 on: May 29, 2019, 12:41:39 AM »

Does it?  A clear Brexit supporting party won 29 seats.  Add the Tories to that, even though as a party, they are about equally split on Brexit.  That gives pro Brexiters 33 seats.

The Liberal Democrats, who oppose Brexit, won 16 seats.  Labour, also opposing Brexit and headed by an inept anti Semite, won 10 seats.  The Green Party, which opposes Brexit, won 7 seats.  SNP, which opposes Brexit, won 3 seats.  So, remain parties won 36 seats


In addition to the seats, the popular vote of UK voters (only a third of whom, I understand, voted) for the EU parliament breaks down as follows:

Remain parties - 8,332,472  of 15,093,172 votes, or 55.2% of the popular vote.

Brexit parties - 6,760,700 of 15,093,172 votes, or 44.8% of the popular vote.

Based on the above, I don't think moby's assertion is inaccurate.

Google was not used for this post, but seat counts and the popular vote (added by yours truly) were taken from the BBC.


The only parties that can be counted as representative of the Brexit debate are the Brexit Party, UKIP for the Leave side and on the Remain side the Lib Dems and Change UK.

Many people voted for the Green Party on Environmental issues/concerns such as plastic in the sea, climate change/warming, etc.

Labour are split on the Brexit issue and had an ambiguous message, even one of their MP's stated the problem on TV as taking way over 5 minutes on each doorstep to wordily explain their position. Labour has always had a strong inner core vote that will vote Labour as they always have done whatever the situation.

The Tories too are split on Brexit but in different proportions to Labour. Again they too will have their core party voters who will vote Tory by tradition.

A few people may have voted on the Brexit issue by voting Green, Labour or Tory but not enough either way to read anything into it. My reading of it is that most voters will have voted for these three parties for a reason other than Brexit as I listed above.

So the vote is really 29 Brexit Party seats to 16 Lib Dem seats. The vote for UKIP & Change UK was approximately the same so they cancel each other out.

If anything it could be ventured that some would have voted Lib Dem by tradition or other reasons than Brexit as they did for the last EU Elections in 2014, i.e before the referendum in 2016. So some of the vote the Lib Dems have is not necessarily about Brexit but vote they would traditionally have got as in the past. Assumingly those that voted Lib Dem by tradition or other reasons are probably mostly not against the Lib Dem position on Brexit or most of them would not have voted. However, I think it is fair to say that overall there was not as big a ground swell of votes cast purely  for Remain as their was purely for Leave.

It's difficult to get to any concrete figures for Remain because of the above reasons but overall the view can be seen as a fairly clear numerical vote in favour of Brexit.
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1393 on: May 29, 2019, 12:47:31 AM »
Incredible, Silly BillyB is STUPID enough to believe folks who support remain over FACT..

I suggest you stop reading their Bollox and check the linksI posted. Before you claim 'fake news' and make a bigger Pollock of yourself than usual, I must point out that in your little disagreement with Boethius neither of you are right...

The Labour 'leadership' have constantly been cautious about taking a side and the grass roots are remain...Labour have MPs..such as Kate Hoey who are remain !  Moby the 'leftie' ( only Muppets like Silly BillyB believe this) strongly distrusts the Labour leadership on Brexit and historical inabilities to run the economy and they taxed my pension savings, when John Major persuaded me to invest in Pensions....   
As Boethius says, the 'leader'..way left of Bernie Sanders .. seems to have an issue with controlling anti-Semitism.

So, Labour are split on Brexit...neither leave or remain...but are more keen for a early general election.  If Corbyn comes out and states a final public vote on any 'deal/ no deal' is a must...it will only be as a result of the recent EU elections...( strength of remain vote )

Labour voters? Those that still voted for the party may be Remain overall in the same way...most Tories ( but NOT I ) are leave. ( I am a Europhile and cannot understand why 'Bastards' ( as John Major referred to them...seem to want to destroy Margaret Thatcher's party..


In conclusion...YES ...I am biased to leave...but only a total idiot would disagree that the clearly  remain parties got Five percent more than the clearly leave parties..

Labour and Conservatives (Tories) got a combined 20 percent..Labour beating the Tories ..

Perhaps, NOW ..wiser members will get it..

One can only guess how this twenty percent would vote...

In addition, the UK turnout was MUCH lower than the EU average.

Based on the HoC and HoL makeup and a HoC Speaker who has make it clear he will allow more votes on how the UK would leave including whether a 'no deal' would be permitted..

In conclusion..my 50 quid  wager us open to anyone..  I am more certain than ever
, given the election result..

The UK will not leave with a 'no deal'...a compromise or not leaving at all are more realistic.

Mobe, Kate Hoey is 'Leave' as in Labour Leave so as said above Labour are split on the subject so can't be said to be a purely Remain Party. Even Jeremy Corbyn could be said as a closet Leaver or at the very least unenthusiastic about Remaining in the UK, a Customs Union or a second referendum.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1394 on: May 29, 2019, 01:58:15 AM »
The only parties that can be counted as representative of the Brexit debate are the Brexit Party, UKIP for the Leave side and on the Remain side the Lib Dems and Change UK.

:rofl:

Trench, parties like the SNP in Scotland, PC in Wales, SF and Alliance in N.Ireland will be interested to hear your 'opinion'...))

You might try and 'spin' your usual Bollox..but ANYONE thinking you are offering a remotely factual description might as well hire you as a dating consultant...))

This is proof positive of Trench's political 'savyiness'..



Many people voted for the Green Party on Environmental issues/concerns such as plastic in the sea, climate change/warming, etc.

Given the EU drove on the environmental issue...find me a Green remainer contingent, you MUPPET..

Is there any subject you can post on with authority?

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1395 on: May 29, 2019, 02:06:11 AM »
Mobe, Kate Hoey is 'Leave' as in Labour Leave so as said above Labour are split on the subject so can't be said to be a purely Remain Party. Even Jeremy Corbyn could be said as a closet Leaver or at the very least unenthusiastic about Remaining in the UK, a Customs Union or a second referendum.

Indeed a typo - correct - thank you

I was pointing out that Labour are split -  I pointed out that Labour are more remain than leave - who claimed otherwise ?


Now deal with my points you failed to dispute - it is clear you read them - you were happy to spot and point out my howler re Kate Hoey ! ..

That you 'let them go' - speaks volumes... :cluebat:
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 04:34:22 AM by msmob »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1396 on: May 29, 2019, 05:13:54 AM »
:rofl:

Trench, parties like the SNP in Scotland, PC in Wales, SF and Alliance in N.Ireland will be interested to hear your 'opinion'...))

You might try and 'spin' your usual Bollox..but ANYONE thinking you are offering a remotely factual description might as well hire you as a dating consultant...))

This is proof positive of Trench's political 'savyiness'..


Given the EU drove on the environmental issue...find me a Green remainer contingent, you MUPPET..

Is there any subject you can post on with authority?

Mobe, the SNP did not fight the Election soley on the Brexit theme, nor even solely Independence, they campaigned on social issues. They knew that a straight out battle on Brexit would not gain them the votes they wished for. So some Scots would have voted for them on Remain, some on Independence, some on social issues and some as a tradition. Of course the Lib Dems did less well in Scotland as a result.

Plaid Cymru only got the North West of Wales as a majority vote, why? Possibly because more  true Welsh are there. Most of the rest of Wales are actually made up of English people by descent, they  may sound Welsh but they are descended from last waves of English who crossed the border when coal mining took of therefir work. In any case like the SNP, PC voters would have voted on self autonomy, by tradition, etc.

SF and the DUP each took a usual share of the vote. The Alliance Party took one seat and they represent the equivalent of the Lib Dems in Northern Ireland. None of the parties we are familiar with on the UK mainland were in contention over their. In that respect only the one Alliance Party seat won could be said to be related to Brexit, so you are up from 16 to 17 seats to the Brexit Party's 29. SF are remain but also there are other issues while the DUP is Leave, you may include SF if you wish in the tally but to do so you would also have to include the DUP so they tally off against each other so no gain there, and that's if you believe most of their voters voted for their party on the Brexit issue and not the usual tradition/divide there.

In general then Move from your argument here you have only gained one more seat fro the Alliance Party, so still a good 12 seats short of the Brexit Party :)
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1397 on: May 29, 2019, 05:39:53 AM »
Indeed a typo - correct - thank you

I was pointing out that Labour are split -  I pointed out that Labour are more remain than leave - who claimed otherwise ?


Now deal with my points you failed to dispute - it is clear you read them - you were happy to spot and point out my howler re Kate Hoey ! ..

That you 'let them go' - speaks volumes... :cluebat:

Poor old Moby, not taking it well are we :arguing:

The Labour Leave group in Parliament could be said to be a small group of MP's indeed, but then a lot of other Labour MP's hold differing views across the Remain argument, some want a Customs Union, done want an EEA or Norwegian style agreement, a few may want to fully Remain, a fair amount want a second referendum but many have different ideas as to the choices to put to voters in that referendum, some just don't know, some are guarded as to where they lie and some like JC want another General Election.

Their voters I would say are far more evenly split than their MP's. Some are Remain, Customs Union or similar or a second referendum. Some are Leave but it is not easy to ascertain how many, some have gone over to voting for UKIP or Brexit Party. Some have stayed with Labour and are still Leave. Others aren't necessarily voting on Brexit but on social issues such as the NHS, State Pensions, Social Housing, Homelessness, Protection for workers in the workplace, etc. Some vote Labour by tradition whatever the weather as they have always done so and wouldn't dream of voting for any other party no matter how much they agreed with them.

So it's too far fetched to count all of the votes cast in any way for Remain when it comes to Labour. JC is a wily old boy who knows to cast his lot in with one is to alienate the other. The Brexit issue could be around a long time and/or a lot of voters remember if their party took a staunch position on the matter. If JC took fully for Remain he knows he could lose a lot of Leave voters permanently whether they are voting UKIP/Brexit Party now or still Labour. He is happy to temporarily lose a few voters in the shirt term who are p*ssed off that he is not coming out for either camp that they belong to as he knows they will likely come back after Brexit/in the years ahead. If he comes out fully for either side they unlikely will as they will remember Labour as the party that support the 'other side'. Some Remsiners in Labour are just too thick to grasp the nuances of politics though and keep yapping on about Remain policies.

The interesting fact is that most Labour MP"s come from Leave voting constituencies. So that shows that there is a large contingent of Labour voters in favour of Leave. So it's not a party where you can easily say votes were cast for Labour as they are mostly Remain, many Remain Labour voters could indeed be said to be disaffected and voted for eitger Lib Dem or Change UK, take Alister Campbell for example, lol, just recently expelled from the Labour Party for doing so :D
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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1398 on: May 29, 2019, 06:12:09 AM »
Trench

As ever, your 'analysis' was bogus bollox



Add the parties up

totally pro leave - JUST - the brexitparty.com  - 29 seats

totally pro remain :  LDs ( 16) , Greens ( 7), SNP ( 3) , PC (1), Alliance (1)  - 28 ..


add  SF ( remain )  +1 - but would they vote ?

add the DUP - if 'no deal is on the table - they WILL vote remain  +1

Labour: almost certain to vote down a 'no deal' and insist on a People's Vote ... +10  ( pro remain, overall 66:33)

Tory: ? If - like Labour - 'whipped' - 4 ( as pro leave - overall ( 70:30)


Conclusion: its not even close by seats ... let alone percentages

No deal ? Dream on


Best news, yet ... The speaker of the house will not resign - until 'Brexit is sorted one way or the other'


Yup, folks - THESE are the numbers I predicted and why Trench and co would not take my bet ...

PS...

Your explanations re party leanings are total nonsense

SNP - 'lend us your votes to defeat brexit" - same for PC and the Alliance Party ( and Greens/ L Dems - folks voted TACTICALLY - we saw how the people feel


As for N.Ireland .. considering SF fell from first to last re votes and the DUP stayed 2nd - with the pro-remain alliance party coming from no-where - a THREEFOLD increase - to take FIRST place - after all preference votes allocated - N.Ireland has Proportional Representation - one wonders at your bizarre assessment that the N.I parties  votes did not change .. :cluebat:


If, the mainland adopted PR - the pro remain parties - would have won by a FAR greater margin based on percentages

Trench.. what ARE you good at ?  It's not political analysis, either





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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1399 on: May 29, 2019, 06:48:12 AM »
Trench

As ever, your 'analysis' was bogus bollox



Add the parties up

totally pro leave - JUST - the brexitparty.com  - 29 seats

totally pro remain :  LDs ( 16) , Greens ( 7), SNP ( 3) , PC (1), Alliance (1)  - 28 ..


add  SF ( remain )  +1 - but would they vote ?

add the DUP - if 'no deal is on the table - they WILL vote remain  +1

Labour: almost certain to vote down a 'no deal' and insist on a People's Vote ... +10  ( pro remain, overall 66:33)

Tory: ? If - like Labour - 'whipped' - 4 ( as pro leave - overall ( 70:30)


Conclusion: its not even close by seats ... let alone percentages

No deal ? Dream on


Best news, yet ... The speaker of the house will not resign - until 'Brexit is sorted one way or the other'


Yup, folks - THESE are the numbers I predicted and why Trench and co would not take my bet ...

PS...

Your explanations re party leanings are total nonsense

SNP - 'lend us your votes to defeat brexit" - same for PC and the Alliance Party ( and Greens/ L Dems - folks voted TACTICALLY - we saw how the people feel


As for N.Ireland .. considering SF fell from first to last re votes and the DUP stayed 2nd - with the pro-remain alliance party coming from no-where - a THREEFOLD increase - to take FIRST place - after all preference votes allocated - N.Ireland has Proportional Representation - one wonders at your bizarre assessment that the N.I parties  votes did not change .. :cluebat:


If, the mainland adopted PR - the pro remain parties - would have won by a FAR greater margin based on percentages

Trench.. what ARE you good at ?  It's not political analysis, either

Mobers, I just explained you cannot add it up like that. You're trying to count a lot of parties that are not remotely single issue parties with a a long tradition of holding a core voter block.

The best that can be done is say:

Brexit Party 31.6%

Lib Dems 20.3% minus a few who are staunch Lib Dem whatever the weather.

The plus a few percent from each party that are pro Remain and would be bothered about it enough to vote for it. My guesstimate woul be that the Pro Remain vote would total a little under the Brexit Party vote with perhaps in the region of 27-30 percent. Possibly they might have got a bit more but then remember UKIP which apparently would bring the Pro Leave vote to around 35 percent. I think the Pro Remain vote would really struggle to outdo that.

The impression I got in the EU Election is that Farage and the Brexit Party had huge momentum for a party just formed six weeks ago, the Brexit vote was mobilised the Remain vote wasn't. Most of those disaffected Remainers voted Lib Dem or a few for Change UK, but in general people in the Remain camp seem to be tiring of the while argument and throwing in the towel and either not voting or being more concerned with other issues, environmental, their traditional party issues, etc.

The big story here was that Farage has galvanised the Brexit vote and has re-energised those wishing to Leave the EU. If anything momentum to Leave the EU will gather pace from this outcome and from Theresa May getting out the way, particularly if Boris gets the PM position.

This EU Election was not so much about influencing what happens in the EU, it was about whether Farage & his Brexit Party could gain enough support to put a rocket up the backside of the government to demonstrate the support for Leave is vibrant and substantial. Remember the Brexit Party INCREASED their seats over UKIP in the 2014 EU Election. They both replaced UKIP and UKIP still took a few if the votes. Combined they would have taken even more seats and a larger share if the vote. I can only hope UKIP stand aside now and let Farage and the Brexit Party lead the Leave campaign.
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