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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 75568 times)

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Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #1400 on: May 29, 2019, 07:15:13 AM »
Main thing is that Farage has moved the whole debate forward. The UKIP party is a pre-referendum party, it has always had a bit of a dis-organised base and did not comfortably accommodate every Leave supporter. It was just about there enough but not near enough perfect. At its worst were the unsavoury elements, the racists, bigots and those with a tendancy to put foot in mouth and of course the  occasional infighting that looked rather distasteful.

Farage in creating the Brexit Party has managed to break free from all of that and replaced it with an organised party with a clear message and effective communication. He has encapsulated the post Referendum Leave support into the more coherent theme of Brexit and a party just for that. If anything the whole Leave campaign is getting more developed and advanced while the Remain campaign is not developing and is remaining stuck and divided.

If a GE were to come under Boris Johnson it is unlikely the Lib Dems would do so well and with UKIP smashed would leave Boris to claim a majority in the H of C.
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« Reply #1401 on: May 29, 2019, 07:33:22 AM »
Main thing is that Farage has moved the whole debate forward.

He did not even do THAT .. ALL he has done is line HIS pockets and try to promote a scenario that cannot happen

The UKIP party is a pre-referendum party, it has always had a bit of a dis-organised base and did not comfortably accommodate every Leave supporter. It was just about there enough but not near enough perfect. At its worst were the unsavoury elements, the racists, bigots and those with a tendancy to put foot in mouth and of course the  occasional infighting that looked rather distasteful.

Again ,not the case - that is an 'excuse' - both 'UKIP' and 'the'brexitparty.com' are simply vehicles for Farage' ego .. they disappear without trace and do not turn their 'protest' votes into any meaningful representation in Parliament


Farage in creating the Brexit Party has managed to break free from all of that and replaced it with an organised party with a clear message and effective communication. He has encapsulated the post Referendum Leave support into the more coherent theme of Brexit and a party just for that. If anything the whole Leave campaign is getting more developed and advanced while the Remain campaign is not developing and is remaining stuck and divided.

ALL he has done is further polarise UK politics ..and created another 'single issue' party - he cannot influence the UK parliament

You and Corbyn are clueless .. this proves it ..

If a GE were to come under Boris Johnson it is unlikely the Lib Dems would do so well and with UKIP smashed would leave Boris to claim a majority in the H of C.

There will not BE another General election ... neither the Tories or Labour want it.. and if you seriously believe the Toris would win .... ( and I was always a Tory )  - you are EVEN MORE deranged that I thought possible ..

Until this 'brexit' bollox is put to bed- it will be remain v leave' ..


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« Reply #1402 on: May 29, 2019, 07:50:03 AM »
I have long been angered by the bogus claims by 'leave' that exiting the EU would , "save 350 million / week - and that money would go to the NHS" ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

"Boris Johnson ordered to appear in court over 350m claim"

It was untrue in that :

1/ The UK gets a REBATE - so this sum was an outrageous fib

2/ Voting 'leave' - as predicted - created a gaping black hole in UK tax receipts and 'UK PLC' has LESS revenue to pay for public services - 'we' were told this was 'project fear' - it's been a proven FACT


Now, poor ol Trench's 'hero' has tried to dodge appearing but the district Judge has ruled:

"I am satisfied there is sufficient to establish prima facie evidence of an issue to be determined at trial of this aspect."

Silly Boris... 

I'm sure his rivals will use this to try to oust him as a candidate - whilst most of 'em were only too pleased to remain 'Trappist' in 2016 ... such is the paucity of an honest Tory 'leave' candidate ...





Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #1403 on: May 29, 2019, 10:04:07 AM »
I have long been angered by the bogus claims by 'leave' that exiting the EU would , "save 350 million / week - and that money would go to the NHS" ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

"Boris Johnson ordered to appear in court over 350m claim"

It was untrue in that :

1/ The UK gets a REBATE - so this sum was an outrageous fib

2/ Voting 'leave' - as predicted - created a gaping black hole in UK tax receipts and 'UK PLC' has LESS revenue to pay for public services - 'we' were told this was 'project fear' - it's been a proven FACT


Now, poor ol Trench's 'hero' has tried to dodge appearing but the district Judge has ruled:

"I am satisfied there is sufficient to establish prima facie evidence of an issue to be determined at trial of this aspect."

Silly Boris... 

I'm sure his rivals will use this to try to oust him as a candidate - whilst most of 'em were only too pleased to remain 'Trappist' in 2016 ... such is the paucity of an honest Tory 'leave' candidate ...

Absolute rubbish if we look at the BBC article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

We see that it's an arcane medieval law that isn't even relevant to the alleged offense. A complete waste of court time by some Remoaner who once again wishes to take action against the democratic mandate because he was on the losing side.

Politicians make all sorts of statements, it's the nature of the game. It's up to the public and the media to scrutinize them to determine their value. In any case we have not left the EU yet so until you do it's impossible to say how much a week we will save for definite, any logical thinking person could work that one out.

What also about remain politicians and 'experts' are they to be held to book for all the claims that our economy would immediately crash if we voted leave. Yet here we are two years on from the vote and our economy has not crashed???? Shouldn't they be up in court also for being proved to have mislead the public.

Purely an attempt to discredit the opposition by people with an axe to grind, should be thrown out off court.
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« Reply #1404 on: May 29, 2019, 10:09:20 AM »
Dear Trench

I am VERY glad that Politicians may now have an act on the statute that will make them accountable for fibbing


Should you wish to start a class action against any Remain politician who has ( correctly ) reported the very issues we are experiencing - be my guest ..

THEY have plenty of ammo to prove their defence' ..

Boris lied ... Boris must acknowledge his error - as must any other Politician who supported that HUGE lie on the bus..

Hopefully, this will end the 'Teflon-like' era ..

Aaron Banks can pay the fine .. ;)







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« Reply #1405 on: May 29, 2019, 08:41:34 PM »

Labour are split on the Brexit issue and had an ambiguous message, even one of their MP's stated the problem on TV as taking way over 5 minutes on each doorstep to wordily explain their position.


That is why Labour got their butts kicked. They say they respect the referendum and support Brexit but aren't doing enough. The newly formed Brexit party got the most seats. That statement should scare labour to move more solidly to Brexit instead of sitting on their hands otherwise they will lose more seats next election.

Even the Lib Dems are pissed at Labour's messy support for Brexit as they make a statement about that on their site. You're the only one in fantasy land thinking they are all for Remain.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/brexit
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« Reply #1406 on: May 30, 2019, 12:44:08 AM »
That is why Labour got their butts kicked. They say they respect the referendum and support Brexit but aren't doing enough. The newly formed Brexit party got the most seats. That statement should scare labour to move more solidly to Brexit instead of sitting on their hands otherwise they will lose more seats next election.

Even the Lib Dems are pissed at Labour's messy support for Brexit as they make a statement about that on their site. You're the only one in fantasy land thinking they are all for Remain.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/brexit

Problem is Billy that too many Labour voters support Remain and many also support Leave even if the bulk of them are voting for the Brexit Party (previously they voted UKIP) at the moment, and of course everything in between Leave & Remain.

The Tories tend to have more Leave voters minus those that also chose to vote Brexit Party/UKIP which of course adds even more to there Leave voter base were they able to bring those Leave voters back over. There are a lot less Tory voters that are for Remain, guys like Moby for instance. Since the 90s the Tories have changed from a largely pro EU party to a largely Eurosceptic party we see today.

Nonetheless Labour's issue is that they are the most stuck of all the parties. With their party voting base split 50/50 accounting for those that have already moved to voting UKIP/Brexit Party if they irreparably alienate either their potential Leave it Remain voters by taking one side over the other they are totally screwed when it comes to a General Election. Jeremy Corbyn knows this that to win a GE he needs to cobble together as many voting blocks, Remain, Leave, Students, Young People, Socially disadvantaged, etc as possible, otherwise there is no way he can win a General Election.

So basically he has to bite his teeth and sacrifice small temporary losses in Local Elections and EU Election to try and get the bigger prize at the General Election. If he can wait until Brexit is out the way all the better for him. Some of his voters will be pee'ed off in the short term by his ambiguous position and he'll lose a few votes as above, but looking back they won't view Labour as coming out on the opposite side of the debate to them fully so they won't count out voting for Labour again.

Imagine if Moby were Labour Remain, he would be a bit cheesed off that Labour had not come out more in favour for Remain and would vote Lib Dem till after Brexit, but because they didn't fully back Leave either after Brexit he would probably go back to voting Labour again, if he were a Labour voter which if course he isn't.
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« Reply #1407 on: May 30, 2019, 02:35:05 AM »
That is why Labour got their butts kicked. They say they respect the referendum and support Brexit but aren't doing enough. The newly formed Brexit party got the most seats. That statement should scare labour to move more solidly to Brexit instead of sitting on their hands otherwise they will lose more seats next election.

Even the Lib Dems are pissed at Labour's messy support for Brexit as they make a statement about that on their site. You're the only one in fantasy land thinking they are all for Remain.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/brexit

BillyB,

Must you CONSTANTLY prove that you are indeed a Silly BillyB ?

IF you had a clue - you'd  know that while the LEADERSHIP are Euro-septic - the maj. of the grass roots AREN'T .. They got a kicking from BOTH leave and REMAIN supporters ..

Best you stick to telling us that Trampu knows what Mueller meant more than Mueller ;)


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« Reply #1408 on: May 30, 2019, 11:19:41 PM »
They got a kicking from BOTH leave and REMAIN supporters ..



All you need to know is that at the pace the UK is going, every election the newly formed Brexit party will continue to get the lion's share of the vote. Your government held a referendum for the people to decide it's future. You don't honor the popular vote when its the method being used. You continue to be a sore loser asking for another referendum. Many are calling the elections the second referendum but IF there is a real second referendum and the majority of people vote for Brexit again, will you honor it will you continue to cry for another referendum?
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« Reply #1409 on: May 31, 2019, 02:28:39 AM »
BiilyB STILL never admits howler's and here comes another one ! ..


All you need to know is that at the pace the UK is going, every election the newly formed Brexit party will continue to get the lion's share of the vote. Your government held a referendum for the people to decide it's future. You don't honor the popular vote when its the method being used. You continue to be a sore loser asking for another referendum. Many are calling the elections the second referendum but IF there is a real second referendum and the majority of people vote for Brexit again, will you honor it will you continue to cry for another referendum?

1/ thebrexitparty.com are the only party - UKIP are a few loons that do not think Farage is extreme enough - that are clearly LEAVE - and 'no deal' ..  There are quite a few clearly REMAIN parties - that are strong  in different areas of the UK ... They won a greater percentage of the votes - combined - than the BP ... Is this hard for you to understand ?


2/ Other than by-elections - one off's where a MP retires / passes away - three is no likelihood of a General Election in the near future - BOOM - there goes the Silly BillyB 'theory'  re 'lion's shares ' .. The BP have NO representation in Parliament and although they might win Peterborough in a by-election - that it not going to stop Parliament reflecting the will of the people - as demonstrated by percentages - the maj. do NOT want to quit the EU and have no arrangements in place - The maj - according to long-term polls - do not want to leave, at all


3/ Cameron called a a NON Binding referendum - bless him ... and combined with the change of heart  - people better informed - when there's a vote on any deal / no deal - it WILL be binding and we must accept the result - even if it is to leave ....   

4/ If it is leave - I am CERTAIN that there will be an application by the next generation to rejoin


Silly BillyB - 'no deal' is unworkable ... from a business and practical point of view  ..

Imagine the US and Canada had an open border - enshrined in a 100 year old law and Mexicans could fly to Canada - not needing a visa for there - but needing one for the USA ..   


The options would be :


a) leave things as they are

b) place border controls

Only a REALLY STUPID person would suggest (b) ( in Ireland ) - knowing thousands died to ensure an open border ..

WHO - in their right mind  - would suggest, otherwise


That was but one reason - 'no deal' is the 'wet dream' of clueless idiots

The latest yougov poll ( Parliamentary intentions ) :





« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 02:59:03 AM by msmob »

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« Reply #1410 on: May 31, 2019, 06:39:37 AM »
In case this is too hard for Silly BillyB to 'get'..

Thebrexitparty.com and UKIP are clearly leave

The Lib Dems, Greens, Change) with 5 percent of the 'Others' ..SNP( Scotland) , PC ( Wales) Alliance and SF (N.Ireland)  are clearly REMAIN..

More Tories are leave and More Labour remain.. One can roughly cancel them out..

So, Silly BillyB....you were saying ?.......


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« Reply #1411 on: May 31, 2019, 08:03:23 AM »
BiilyB STILL never admits howler's and here comes another one ! ..


1/ thebrexitparty.com are the only party - UKIP are a few loons that do not think Farage is extreme enough - that are clearly LEAVE - and 'no deal' ..  There are quite a few clearly REMAIN parties - that are strong  in different areas of the UK ... They won a greater percentage of the votes - combined - than the BP ... Is this hard for you to understand ?


2/ Other than by-elections - one off's where a MP retires / passes away - three is no likelihood of a General Election in the near future - BOOM - there goes the Silly BillyB 'theory'  re 'lion's shares ' .. The BP have NO representation in Parliament and although they might win Peterborough in a by-election - that it not going to stop Parliament reflecting the will of the people - as demonstrated by percentages - the maj. do NOT want to quit the EU and have no arrangements in place - The maj - according to long-term polls - do not want to leave, at all


3/ Cameron called a a NON Binding referendum - bless him ... and combined with the change of heart  - people better informed - when there's a vote on any deal / no deal - it WILL be binding and we must accept the result - even if it is to leave ....   

4/ If it is leave - I am CERTAIN that there will be an application by the next generation to rejoin


Silly BillyB - 'no deal' is unworkable ... from a business and practical point of view  ..

Imagine the US and Canada had an open border - enshrined in a 100 year old law and Mexicans could fly to Canada - not needing a visa for there - but needing one for the USA ..   


The options would be :


a) leave things as they are

b) place border controls

Only a REALLY STUPID person would suggest (b) ( in Ireland ) - knowing thousands died to ensure an open border ..

WHO - in their right mind  - would suggest, otherwise


That was but one reason - 'no deal' is the 'wet dream' of clueless idiots

The latest yougov poll ( Parliamentary intentions ) :



Saw the poll yesterday, it goes to show that there has likely been little change in the whole Leave or Remain voting intention, its still pretty much split evenly for either side which gives lie to the poll of polls survey you have kept stating for months Mobers that its gone more to Remain.

In the poll below though they fail to separate the DUP from the 'Others'. SF of course won't take up UK Parliament seats so won't figure.

On that basis its would probably be a hung Parliament with similar numbers to now with the Brexit Party, Conservatives and the DUP working together and Labour, the Lib Dems, any Greens working together. SNP who knows, again they don't figure in the figure except I would summise under the 'Others' column. The SNP would likely work on the Labour, Lib Dem, Green side were it not for their hang up over a second independance referendum for Scotland which is almost certain to be a condition of working with them which of course will be unacceptable to Labour, etc. So the SNP won't be working with them but would likely state they would vote indepentately in Parliment towards Remain in any Brexit votes.

Odds are if the Brexit Party, UKIP co-ordinate with Tories that they will only field candidates in where there are Remain candidates that could give the Tory/Brexit Party enough seats for a majority in Parliament with or without the DUP but on these figures most likely with the DUP. UKIP used to take a similar standpoint and Farage has stated he will only go head to head with the Tories if they tuen away from a No Deal Brexit, so there are grounds to believe they might cut it that way if they have any sense.

Labour, Lib Dems, etc are highly unlikely to come to any agreement such as a Lib/Lab candidate voting pact as we have consistently seen for decades now and of course recently during the EU Election. They seem to be unable to pull their candidates out of running in each others terrritory and will lose seats as a result. Due to that they are likely to be in opposition again.

If Boris gets the Tory leadership all of these polls may change to  being more favourable to the Tories as he tends to be popular among voters, far more so than Theresa May.

I would say that based on the poll below at the moment in time taking into consideration the above the Leave camp still just pick Remain to the winning post in a General Election.   
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« Reply #1412 on: May 31, 2019, 08:38:03 AM »
Trench

Do TRY to keep up..I did NOT include the DUP in the others..although if the govt tries the no deal option you can safely include them...

So, we see why you would not take my bed ...


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« Reply #1413 on: May 31, 2019, 08:46:20 AM »
Trench

Do TRY to keep up..I did NOT include the DUP in the others..although if the govt tries the no deal option you can safely include them...

So, we see why you would not take my bed ...

No I would prefer not to take your bed, I don't swing that way ;D

What I'm saying above is that as long as Leave forces co-operate the first past the post system is likely to see us home even if the votes collectively are slightly more for Remain leaning parties, so game could be up Mobers ;)
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« Reply #1414 on: May 31, 2019, 10:25:29 AM »
Bet..of us).

Nice deflextion, Mr 'will not put his money where his gib is'..

My poll shows that your thebrexitparty.com would not win most seats in the first past the post system.

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« Reply #1415 on: May 31, 2019, 08:20:25 PM »
Saw the poll yesterday, it goes to show that there has likely been little change in the whole Leave or Remain voting intention, its still pretty much split evenly for either side which gives lie to the poll of polls survey you have kept stating for months Mobers that its gone more to Remain.


The polls didn't predict Brexit winning, Trump winning, or the new conservative Australian PM winning. The newly formed Brexit party won 9 out of the 12 regions. Amazing feat by a new party and other parties better take notice why they are doing so well.
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« Reply #1416 on: June 01, 2019, 01:38:14 AM »
Silly BillyB..

The EU polls predicted that thebrexitparty.com would win the most seats and the percentage votes...within the 2 to 3 percent margin of error.

You are a constant example of a desperate person trying to post fake news rather than accept you are busted for stupidity..

Very entertaining, though...!

Please feel free to tell me I am in a 'minority' in  place where Soviet-style editing ensures the 'truth' is controlled))


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« Reply #1417 on: June 01, 2019, 05:20:13 AM »
Bet..of us).

Nice deflextion, Mr 'will not put his money where his gib is'..

My poll shows that your thebrexitparty.com would not win most seats in the first past the post system.

I would argue otherwise with you Mobe but I'm still cringing at the thought of you wanting me in your bed! :barf:
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« Reply #1418 on: June 01, 2019, 06:38:55 AM »
No..

You have no riposte..cause you know I am right...

My 50 quid bet scares off 'brextremists' for a v.good reason...


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« Reply #1419 on: June 01, 2019, 08:07:48 AM »
No..

You have no riposte..cause you know I am right...

My 50 quid bet scares off 'brextremists' for a v.good reason...

You seem to think that the Lib Dems etc can get a working majority between them, following a GE. Problem is for you Mobe is that the Lib Dems and Labour have differing positions on Brexit. The Lib Dems may have a cohesive position but Labour is fragmented even if most of their MP's are more in the Remain camp with many of its Remain MP's holding differing positions even among themselves, ie customs union or staying in EU, what to have as options in any second referendum, etc. Could be a struggle for them to get anything done.

Then we get to your Change UK that you quickly deserted in favour of the Lib Dems. What do you suppose will happen with them? Is it feasible for them to join the Lib Dems? I'm not so sure, could be stuck in the hole they've dug for the Remain camp, taking votes of Remain Lib Dem, etc MP's that will go to waste in a first past the post GE :)
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« Reply #1420 on: June 01, 2019, 08:20:03 AM »
Best you do not try to guess what I think..

You will be wrong

Now, I still say yhere will be no 'no deal' scenario..

You keep telling us it will happen and will not back up your contention.

You can post as much Bollox as you choose ...but the fact is you cannot / will not put your conviction to the test..

Do not feel bad...you are not alone... The 'excuses' are amusing..


In the meantime I most defo prefer to share my bed with SC..the weather in Sochi is perfect at the mo..

 


« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 08:56:44 AM by msmob »

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« Reply #1421 on: June 01, 2019, 12:00:41 PM »
Best you do not try to guess what I think..

You will be wrong

Now, I still say yhere will be no 'no deal' scenario..

You keep telling us it will happen and will not back up your contention.

You can post as much Bollox as you choose ...but the fact is you cannot / will not put your conviction to the test..

Do not feel bad...you are not alone... The 'excuses' are amusing..


In the meantime I most defo prefer to share my bed with SC..the weather in Sochi is perfect at the mo..

 


And is she aware of your tendancy to invite men to bed with you???? :rolleyes:
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1422 on: June 01, 2019, 12:03:07 PM »
Only if they support remain))

Offline Chelseaboy

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1423 on: June 02, 2019, 02:51:57 AM »
The latest poll today from Opinium for the Observer puts the Brexit Party ahead for the first time if there was a General Election today.

Brexit Party gets 26% of the votes ( + 2 % )


Labour 22% ( -7 % )


Tories 17 % ( - 5 % )


Lib Dems 16 % ( + 5 % )


Green 11 % ( + 8 % )


SNP 4 % ( No change )


UKIP 1 % ( - 1 % )


Plaid Cymru 1 % ( + 1 % )


Change UK 1 % ( - 2 % )


Brexit Party now only 20 seats short of a majority,with 306 seats...and the surge continues.


Moby may as well ditch his UK Passport..and good riddance to him : ))))
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 03:12:43 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1424 on: June 02, 2019, 05:13:46 AM »
The latest poll today from Opinium for the Observer puts the Brexit Party ahead for the first time if there was a General Election today.

Brexit Party gets 26% of the votes ( + 2 % )


Labour 22% ( -7 % )


Tories 17 % ( - 5 % )


Lib Dems 16 % ( + 5 % )


Green 11 % ( + 8 % )


SNP 4 % ( No change )


UKIP 1 % ( - 1 % )


Plaid Cymru 1 % ( + 1 % )


Change UK 1 % ( - 2 % )


Brexit Party now only 20 seats short of a majority,with 306 seats...and the surge continues.


Moby may as well ditch his UK Passport..and good riddance to him : ))))

Yes with him inviting me into his bed I won't be disappointed if he doesn't remain in the UK.

I think the figures could swing more infavour if the Brexit Party as people start to see it as. A viable alternative in a General Election and not just a protest party. With the Brexit issue currently paralyzing Parliament I think people will see it as a big enough issue to vote for a one issue party to get it resolved.

At present it looks like Boris is the best leadership candidate to get this matter resolved. I think he would definitely be the best choice for the Tories. He gets on well with Trump and that would be very important to us in forming a post EU world:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48478706

If we can get good deals with the US on trade and preference in visitation/work arrangements then we could both do well for each other. We both speak English and have similar cultures and outlook so makes sense to work with our natural allies.

Trump too believes that unless the EU is forthcoming with a good deal which I think we all know is unlikely then leaving without a deal is best. Trump is an old guy with tons of experience in business and knows when to hold and when to fold and that just any deal isn't a good deal. From what I can see he is grappling well with the issue if tariffs with countries that are taking the per which I think will do well for America as a result. Farage too gets on well with Trump and could work well too with Trump and create many valuable and lucrative opportunities for the people's of both nations.

If Boris were to call a General Election on gaining the leadership and Tory/Brexit Party majority coalition result that I think would be the ideal situation. I think at present there are some Remoan MP's in Leave constituencies that are way out of touch with their constituents and need to go.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973

No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

 

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