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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 234682 times)

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Online Trenchcoat

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2675 on: December 15, 2019, 02:42:07 PM »
http://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/108573/labour-civil-war-erupts-mp-who-lost-leave-backing

Looks like civil war might end up splitting the Labour Party apart. Corbynistas (the left) against Blairites (the centrists). The left are blaming the centrists for their ardent Remain position costing them a lot of seats while the centrists are blaming the left for their 1970's economic policies of nationalisation for costing it the Election.

Depending on who wins one side might splitter off yet again. At the moment it seems the ensuing Leadership Election when it comes will likely end up as a battle between Kier Starmer (centrist) against Rebecca Long-Bailey (left). I believe that odds are that Rebecca Long-Bailey may get it basing this on her getting similar Trade Union votes like Jeremy Corbyn did and a Labour Party membership that will likely blame the more ardent Remain centrists for the Election defeat than a slight overkill on outdated economic policy.

If so that could result in the centrists breaking off from the Labour Party after already not liking years of leadership under Jeremy Corbyn. I personally think that is a lesser problem for Labour than if an Ardent Remain centrist wins as they will scare of Leave voters at the next General Election who will fear them getting into bed with the EU without any referendum vote.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #2676 on: December 16, 2019, 04:23:16 AM »
The new MP's get back to Parliament this week with the first business of passing the Withdrawal Agreement Bill, i.e Boris's EU Brexit Deal:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50803194

This Parliament will be a lot more pro Brexit tha the last with most Arch Remainers having lost their seats. The Tory Party has now cleansed itself of nearly all Remainers and is now pretty much solely a Brexit Party. The opposition parties now hold too few seats to stop Brexit now :)

So now for definite we should Leave the EU on the 31st January, not long to go now Mobers! :D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #2677 on: December 16, 2019, 09:48:15 AM »
Yeah.   No more squeaker running the show.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Online 2tallbill

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« Reply #2678 on: December 17, 2019, 10:02:46 AM »



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« Reply #2679 on: December 17, 2019, 09:59:36 PM »
Ramirez and Beel STILL think 'brexit' is a policy of the right ... rather than the STUPID ?

Online msmob

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« Reply #2680 on: December 18, 2019, 07:17:41 AM »
You have forgotten that during May 2011 there was a voting referendum!

It concerned whether or not to replace the current 'first-past-the-post' system with the 'alternative vote' (AV) method. The proposal was rejected by 68% of voters on a national turnout of 42%.

Do you also reject the outcome of this referendum? Stop whinging about other people's majority decision!

"The campaign was described in retrospect by Oxford political scientist Iain McLean as a "bad-tempered and ill-informed public debate"

There's a clue for you, Blighty ;)

F'n Boris has opened his trap about deadlines and setting deadlines and the GBP fell at the thought of us crashing out being back on the cards ..

Methinks someone isn't too pleased that the GBP ROSE after the elections results ... *I* was surprised and I think those who sought a weaker GBP were, too

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pound-dollar-euro-boris-johnson-no-deal-brexit-law-exchange-rate-a9249841.html


« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 02:14:54 PM by msmob »

Online 2tallbill

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« Reply #2681 on: December 18, 2019, 09:44:05 AM »
Ramirez and Beel STILL think 'brexit' is a policy of the right ... rather than the STUPID ?

Corbyn was a far lefty, do you disagree?

If the ONLY difference was Brexit then in my opinion they wouldn't have lost so
badly.
FSUW are not for entry level daters
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If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
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Online msmob

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« Reply #2682 on: December 18, 2019, 02:20:59 PM »
Corbyn was a far lefty, do you disagree?   

of COURSE not... but this was a 'brexit' election and Corbyn thought

1/ He could make it about socio-economic policy

2/ Try to please all re 'brexit'


If the ONLY difference was Brexit then in my opinion they wouldn't have lost so
badly.

It WAS ... Corbyn just didn't get it

In my constituency ... a strongly REMAIN one ... we had the last Tory MP telling folks to vote for anyone BUT the Tory  candidate - as he is a remainer and having stood down in a pact the Greens and Labour got more votes than the Tory and 'brexitparty.com' candidates ..


It happened in SO many places ..'We' 'the remainers' showed them how it was done in Brecon in a by-election and Labour just didn't learn...   remain is STILL ahead ...in any poll - 'we' just allowed the Tories to be the 'only' leave party ..


LOTS of right of centre politicians seek to remain



Offline Blighty

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« Reply #2683 on: December 18, 2019, 03:01:24 PM »
"... Oxford political scientist Iain McLean ..."

There's a clue for you, Blighty ;)

Big deal, as it does not impress me! As an Oxford graduate, I just dismiss his statement as the personal ranting of some old fart of an Oxford don!

You are just pathetic in the twaddle that you write here!

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #2684 on: December 18, 2019, 03:27:18 PM »
Ah, see our Mobe is still alive and kicking :D

Well the Tories got 43.6 percent of the popular vote. The Brexit Party got another 2 percent, so combined that makes 45.6 percent of the popular vote. However, many Labour voters in Leave constituencies would have likely voted for their Labour Leave supporting candidate, not that there were that many of them. More Labour voters would have probably stayed at home. In any case I think it looks likely the total Leave vote would have been around 50 percent possibly more. Odds are it would be around the same as in the 2016 Referendum showing that support for Leave hasn't collapsed as Remainers often contend, even the 45.6 percent that can be evidenced demonstrates that.

Anyway exciting times ahead as we move towards leaving the EU :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #2685 on: December 19, 2019, 02:15:21 AM »
Big deal, as it does not impress me! As an Oxford graduate, I just dismiss his statement as the personal ranting of some old fart of an Oxford don!

You are just pathetic in the twaddle that you write here!

So, you are as pathetic as the chap I quoted ? ;)

It's my 'twaddle' and I'm proud of it ..

Had a bad day, yesterday, Blighty ?


Online msmob

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« Reply #2686 on: December 19, 2019, 02:25:09 AM »
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Q2.-EU-and-2017-1-768x604.jpg

To 'help' Trench understand..

Corbyn was SO weak... many remain voting Tories still stuck with Boris - who was ( rightfully) trusted less...though the choices were awful.


The Tories learnt from Brecon and the Remain parties didn't ...  I stand by my 'twaddle' ! ;)

Offline Blighty

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« Reply #2687 on: December 19, 2019, 04:33:17 AM »
So, you are as pathetic as the chap I quoted ? ;)

Getting abusive as you have lost the discussion?

Online msmob

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« Reply #2688 on: December 19, 2019, 09:40:09 AM »
Getting abusive as you have lost the discussion?


Says the guy who is 'Oxford educated' and referred to my 'twaddle' without a 'reasoned riposte'....


Hmm... No irony escapes you.   

Offline Grumpy

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« Reply #2689 on: December 19, 2019, 10:20:35 AM »
The government has published the EU (withdrawal agreement) bill. It runs to 101 pages and you can read it here (pdf).

http://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0001/20001.pdf
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Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #2690 on: December 19, 2019, 12:56:54 PM »
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Q2.-EU-and-2017-1-768x604.jpg

To 'help' Trench understand..

Corbyn was SO weak... many remain voting Tories still stuck with Boris - who was ( rightfully) trusted less...though the choices were awful.


The Tories learnt from Brecon and the Remain parties didn't ...  I stand by my 'twaddle' ! ;)

Farage learnt from Brecon just in time before the General Election not to run the Brexit Party in all seats or risk another hung Parliament.

Brecon couldn't be replicated across the country in part due to getting a Remain Alliance together of significance in England. Mostly though because the Tories were weaker in the Brecon by-election because they were running a crooked MP. They retook Brecon in the 2019 General Election even though the same Liberal Remain Election pact was on.

I don't see any worth in that survey you've dug up Mobe, everyone knew that voting for Boris meant to Leave the EU in the General Election. I can't really see why Remainers would vote for him but rather stay at home if they weren't happy with that. The Election result doesn't indicate many Tory Remainers stayed at home.

There definitely seems to be an underestimation of the support out there to Leave the EU both from the Labour Party and the Lib Dums, a lot of Lib Dummery from them in particular ;D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #2691 on: December 19, 2019, 01:50:04 PM »
Trench,

I realise you do not 'understand' much, but the survey is saying that Boris made the election about 'brexit' and Corbyn tried to make it about Public Services.

Ironically, many remainers feared leaving thecEU less than having Corbyn run the show.

Cheltenham and Stroud voted for the Tories ...despite being strongly remain...


'My' new MP is one of the prettiest in the House...





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« Reply #2692 on: December 19, 2019, 02:12:33 PM »
Trench,

I realise you do not 'understand' much, but the survey is saying that Boris made the election about 'brexit' and Corbyn tried to make it about Public Services.

Ironically, many remainers feared leaving thecEU less than having Corbyn run the show.

Cheltenham and Stroud voted for the Tories ...despite being strongly remain...


'My' new MP is one of the prettiest in the House...



On one hand this guy says it was a 'Brexit' election and on the other side he says that it is about Corbyn.   I think Trench understands a helluvalot more than this guy who speaks out of both sides of his mouth.  He can't keep his own stories straight in his head.   And lest we forget, Trench was right all along while the other guy couldn't see it coming.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #2693 on: December 19, 2019, 02:30:19 PM »
On one hand this guy says it was a 'Brexit' election and on the other side he says that it is about Corbyn.   I think Trench understands a helluvalot more than this guy who speaks out of both sides of his mouth.  He can't keep his own stories straight in his head.   And lest we forget, Trench was right all along while the other guy couldn't see it coming.

Ha,ha,ha :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #2694 on: December 19, 2019, 02:34:31 PM »
Trench,

I realise you do not 'understand' much, but the survey is saying that Boris made the election about 'brexit' and Corbyn tried to make it about Public Services.

Ironically, many remainers feared leaving thecEU less than having Corbyn run the show.

Cheltenham and Stroud voted for the Tories ...despite being strongly remain...


'My' new MP is one of the prettiest in the House...



They could have instead voted for the Lib Dums, a much closer leap than all the way over to Corbyn. Yet we saw the Lib Dems support halve in the polls up to the General Election culminating in their leader, Jo Swinson who was very outwardly pro Remain losing her seat.

Whichever way you argue it now Mobers the battle is now over and lost for you Remoaners :D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #2695 on: December 19, 2019, 03:35:59 PM »
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #2696 on: December 19, 2019, 10:15:29 PM »
Brexit Bill up in Parliament for the vote today, hmmnn.... I wonder if it will pass :D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #2697 on: December 19, 2019, 10:27:53 PM »
Jone desperate to prove he doesn't understand the pretty graphic I posted...

On one hand this guy says it was a 'Brexit' election and on the other side he says that it is about Corbyn.   I think Trench understands a helluvalot more than this guy who speaks out of both sides of his mouth.  He can't keep his own stories straight in his head.   And lest we forget, Trench was right all along while the other guy couldn't see it coming.

Trench, ( and of course YOU) called it wrong from a political and legal stance.

I was wrong re calling THIS election result and accept that humiliation.

You are as daft as Trench in not 'getting' why it happened.

It is certainly NOT a laughing matter that  the fossils of the UK are forcing the young out of a club and jumping off a cliff.

If the EU and our 'union' (UK) survives...we will rejoin and have less opt outs than now.


Trench will be wishing he listened to Moby...IF he ever manages to find a lady willing to share his life in the UK;)








« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 11:28:10 PM by msmob »

Online 2tallbill

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« Reply #2698 on: December 19, 2019, 11:12:42 PM »
It WAS ... Corbyn just didn't get it

I believe that. (He's a left wing nut) 

I am a fan of the UK, they will figure it out.
In my opinion they will come out smelling like
roses in the end.

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
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If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
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« Reply #2699 on: December 19, 2019, 11:32:49 PM »
I believe that. (He's a left wing nut) 

I am a fan of the UK, they will figure it out.
In my opinion they will come out smelling like
roses in the end.

Udachi!

Bill

Beel,

Your 'optimism' ignores fact ...

The UK is (currently)  a member of the world's largest trading club ..The US cannot begin to replace that and you lot are in 'Me first' protectionist mode re trade...  Leaving the EU is NUTS ..

Boris has plans to set Dec 2020 as "we'll leave without a deal" if we cannot agree one with the EU and crashing out is my VERY worst fear ... and I've warned all along that if he was given a majority - he would venture down this path ...




 

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