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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 129501 times)

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Online 2tallbill

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« on: June 11, 2016, 12:12:19 PM »
Brexit has been in the news and people in the UK are going to vote it up or down.
I wanted to know what are the pros and cons and people it might impact.

Personally, I don't know enough about it to have an opinion, and if I did it wouldn't
matter. The people of UK are more than capable of forming their opinions without
my help.

What say you?
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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2016, 12:51:09 PM »
Tough call. If I were a citizen of the UK I'd probably vote to leave. The EU has done very little for the UK over the years and I'd suggest the UK has contributed more monetarily to the EU than vice versa.

The UK has even maintained it's own national currency, healthcare and (although somewhat impacted) immigration policies so they were never truly "All in" with the EU in the first place.

The only area that I can think of that might have benefitted the UK was trade but even that is arguable in that I remember while residing there some controversy over local farmers having trouble competing with imported produce, meat, etc.

Brass

Edit: I also don't think the UK leaving would topple the EU as, say Germany or France bailing would. What it might do though is start an exodus of the 'have' countries and that would break the EU up.   
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 01:04:32 PM by Brasscasing »
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2016, 04:05:58 PM »
I'm indifferent, however, I find Margaret Thatcher to have been very prescient on the EU.  She opposed it, and was knifed by her party, losing its leadership, because of that opposition.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3562258/Full-text-of-Margaret-Thatchers-speech-to-the-College-of-Europe-The-Bruges-Speech.html
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Offline Larry1

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2016, 04:18:22 PM »
I'm indifferent, however, I find Margaret Thatcher to have been very prescient on the EU.  She opposed it, and was knifed by her party, losing its leadership, because of that opposition.

One of the most vivid political memories of my life was the news story about Margaret Thatcher being stabbed in the back by a cabal of her fellow Tories.  Many people say they remember where they were when they heard that John F. Kennedy was assassinated. I remember where I was when I heard the news about Thatcher. I was visiting my mother and watching TV in shock.

Offline cc3

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 09:06:49 AM »
I favor and support an independent UK!

Offline ML

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 02:23:46 PM »
It will be like economic suicide for UK to leave.

Theory shows and experience proves the high level of economic benefits from belonging to such organizations.

Sure there are some segments of industry from any particular country that suffers, but this is outweighed by the segments that benefit.

Study some economics concerning comparative advantage and absolute advantage.

The best course is to threaten to leave . . . in order to get some concessions from other members.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2016, 02:33:49 PM »
But the UK has a trade deficit with all EU countries.  So, will Germany risk a 51 million euro positive trade balance because of Brexit?  Will France risk its 14 million euro positive trade balance?  Will the Netherlands risk its $7 billion euro positive trade balance?

From all I have read, the educated, and the young, favour staying in the EU.  Those who are less educated favour exiting, as their livelihoods have been affected by downward pressure on wages.  Last week, Brexit had an 11 point lead.  This week, after the assassination of Jo Cox, the sides are both at 44% support.



 
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Offline ML

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2016, 02:48:16 PM »
Same thing basically in USA.  Less educated and less skilled workers in some industries are hurt by free trade and trade agreements because the low level skills they have can be replicated cheaper in some other countries.

But USA had trade surplus in professional services, as one example.

The idea of comparative advantage applies to skills the same as it applies to natural resources.  USA has superior education system to most countries of the world (yes I know the average student in our secondary school system does not achieve as well as those in some other countries), so that is where one of our comparative advantages exist.

Note:  The standardized exam results that show USA students far down the list compared to some other countries would show something entirely different if segmented by race, ethnicity, etc.  But that would not be PC to do.

The key, as always, for those in USA is to strive for highest level of education and skills possible.  To do otherwise is pretty stupid.

But I realize that if a person is, in fact, pretty stupid then . . .
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2016, 04:43:49 PM »
It will be like economic suicide for UK to leave.


UK can partner up with America, Canada and Mexico. Obama wants UK to stay in the EU. Does UK staying in the EU benefit America or helps our competition, the EU?
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Offline JayH

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2016, 05:06:00 PM »
It will be like economic suicide for UK to leave.


Exactly correct.

The problem with small minded politics is that it ignores the simple reality that the world IS interconnected in every respect now.
Of course the changes that creates to what were historic norms get changed-- and many do not do change well.
Hence we see politicians who want to build walls (either real or imaginary) in their thirst for popular acclaim - what is will do is create economic anochism! There are examples of that you can see in discussion on this forum!
The world has changed dramatically in the last 50 years -and it is a clock that cannot be reversed !
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2016, 07:09:50 PM »
...USA has superior education system to most countries of the world (yes I know the average student in our secondary school system does not achieve as well as those in some other countries), so that is where one of our comparative advantages exist.

Somewhat of a dichotomy, don't you think?

Note:  The standardized exam results that show USA students far down the list compared to some other countries would show something entirely different if segmented by race, ethnicity, etc.  But that would not be PC to do.

That seems like something impossible to prove.  I'm guessing here that Chinese, Indian and other Asian students would come out in front of the others because they have (in many cases) a superior work ethic as students.  But every race has its geniuses, and there must be plenty to go around in a country as large as yours.

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2016, 01:29:58 AM »
STAY

The leavers want Britain to be 'independent' in a global world

Thus voting 'out' are either clueless racists or want the GBP , their pensions - via the stock market - to fall
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline BC

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2016, 02:56:11 AM »
I could understand more why Greece would want to back out or at least threaten to as they have little to lose in the end.  But UK with their own currency, not really in Schengen and able to control their borders and immigration policy more than most EU countries..  All the benefits and relatively small liabilities.

Just doesn't make sense.

Exit - if the GBP drops - bad   Exit if the GBP increases - bad.

This whole Brexit is a mystery when they only had one foot in the door anyway..

It should really be a vote for full entry into EU or remaining at the status quo, something that was turned down long ago.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2016, 09:03:23 AM »
The leavers want Britain to be 'independent' in a global world


I've heard if Britain leaves, it may hurt the EU more than them. It may also start the demise of the EU. There's no doubt in my mind people in the EU wants Britain to stay more than the Brits want to stay. I see Germany and France benefiting the most in the EU. Many Brits may feel they're not getting a fair shake. Leaving now and playing hardball may get them a better deal in the future should the EU try to bribe into coming back.
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Online Nightwish

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2016, 09:09:34 AM »
I am really hoping for a Brexit - and soon there after a Swexit.. "we" other countries that don't belong to the monetary union will lose the most on Brexit.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 10:08:37 AM by Nightwish »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2016, 02:02:54 PM »
The elites in Britain and the EU want Britain to stay. Most Brits across all classes want to leave. They have seen nothing but deterioration of a previously decent life style while their culture and way of life is disappearing. England has been a pretty solid anchor of the Union. Not quite Germany or France  and the Brits don't really like what they have seen Germany and France turn into. Namely the immigration.

I say cheer the Brits on for whatever they vote for while it's still democratic

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2016, 03:09:21 PM »
STAY

The leavers want Britain to be 'independent' in a global world

Thus voting 'out' are either clueless racists or want the GBP , their pensions - via the stock market - to fall


I would hazard a guess your "friend" from Manchester backs Brexit.  Just a hunch, I could be wrong.
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2016, 03:09:32 PM »
I've heard if Britain leaves, it may hurt the EU more than them.

WHERE did you hear that ?  ;D

Britain is a nation of just under 65 million and the EU 300 million plus... [ I initially typed 75 million for the UK ]

They are Britain's biggest trading partners and the German's can't wait for any Brexit and a UK 'stock market' outside the EU

Britain cannot control EU citizens coming in - but can stop them gaining access to social welfare payments for a long time.

Brexiters are saying daft things and making up figures about how much the UK pays and have the cheek to say the Stay campaign are 'scare-mongering '

FACT - the biggest employers don't want a Brexit ...should be a clue for any employee voting like a Turkey for Christmas / Thanks-giving






« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 04:21:36 PM by msmobyone »
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2016, 03:14:47 PM »

I would hazard a guess your "friend" from Manchester backs Brexit.  Just a hunch, I could be wrong.

Of course - because a UK leaving the EU  weakens the EU and the UK..and he thinks immigration will reduce ... :D

Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2016, 03:50:25 PM »


University of Liverpool Law School’s Professor Michael Dougan has spent his career studying EU law as it relates to the UK; contributing to Parliamentary Select Committees, advising government and now helping media fact check the barrage of assertions emanating from the Remain and Leave camps, in the run up to June 23. 

By far the most coherent analysis I've heard on the EU referendum; probably because he's not a politician.

Offline JayH

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2016, 05:51:00 PM »

I would hazard a guess your "friend" from Manchester backs Brexit.  Just a hunch, I could be wrong.


Of course - because a UK leaving the EU  weakens the EU and the UK..and he thinks immigration will reduce ... :D



It is a good example of small minded  ignorance believing in short term  self interest overiding common sense.
Maybe when the currency collapses   he will be able to change all those roubles  that he bought( that he was  so strong in recommending others buy at about 35=USD$1) back into GBP and buy up England on the cheap !
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2016, 07:38:23 PM »
The elites in Britain and the EU want Britain to stay. Most Brits across all classes want to leave.

How can you say that when all the polls have "stay" and "leave" both running at around 50%?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/20/eu-referendum-poll-tracker-and-odds1/

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2016, 09:52:47 PM »
Of course - because a UK leaving the EU  weakens the EU and the UK..


If UK leaves and their economic competition, the EU, becomes weak too, that is a good thing for the UK. It won't be as bad as everyone thinks since everybody is still on the same playing field. America is more independent than most European countries and we're doing fine. Some in the UK want to be in control of their destiny too. I noticed not many people clicked on Nightwish's photo but I cut and paste similar words below. With the enormous amount of time required to read rules on every item, it gets expensive doing business.

Pythagorean theorem: …………………………………….24 words.
 Lord’s prayer:………………………………………………. 66 words.
 Archimedes’ Principle: ……………………………………. 67 words.
 10 Commandments: …………………………………….. 179 words.
 Gettysburg address: …………………………………….. 286 words.
 US Declaration of Independence : ……………….. 1,300 words.
 US Constitution with all 27 Amendments: ………. 7,818 words.
 EU regulations on the sale of cabbage:……. 26,911 words

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Offline ML

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2016, 09:57:08 PM »
So in EU you have to pay a lot of lettuce to get cabbage.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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