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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 84443 times)

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Online BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2016, 12:11:00 AM »
Apparently not.




http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35962999


http://www.snopes.com/language/document/cabbage.asp

Those sites don't know what they are talking about or haven't done enough research for the facts.

This link has 5913 words

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1466575276358&uri=CELEX:31987R1591

This link has 1898 words in an amendment.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32006R0634

Every country also has their cabbage protocol on top of the rules they have to follow with the EU. For the UK it's the link below with 23,510 words.

http://assurance.redtractor.org.uk/contentfiles/Farmers-5341.pdf

In the first two links there are references to regulations. There are also other amendments. I'm not going to search for every one of those regulations and amendments but I'm sure it's going to be over 26,000 words for a guy to read if he wants to grow and sell cabbage.

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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2016, 12:22:53 AM »
If UK leaves and their economic competition, the EU, becomes weak too, that is a good thing for the UK. It won't be as bad as everyone thinks

BillyB

My GBP is going less far, shares fallen and pensions [ private ] fallen .... and that is before any 'brexit' - it's financial - as well as - political suicide.

Imagine a scenario where Texas thinks it could go off on her own and the places where oil is prevalent say they'll cede and rejoin the Union and you'll have an analogy approaching the daftness of a 'brexit'


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Online BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2016, 12:44:17 AM »
My GBP is going less far, shares fallen and pensions [ private ] fallen .... and that is before any 'brexit' - it's financial - as well as - political suicide.


If brexit happens, I'm sure the Euro is going to lose value too and there will continue to be balance. When the value of currency is down, exports will increase so economy will bounce back. There is a lot of uncertainty for the future that will devalue currency. When the smoke clears, your GBP will bounce back where it belongs. I would suspect your shares and pension have little to do with the UK's relationship with the EU and more to do with how things operate within the UK.
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Offline JayH

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2016, 12:56:53 AM »
If brexit happens, I'm sure the Euro is going to lose value too and there will continue to be balance. When the value of currency is down, exports will increase so economy will bounce back. There is a lot of uncertainty for the future that will devalue currency. When the smoke clears, your GBP will bounce back where it belongs. I would suspect your shares and pension have little to do with the UK's relationship with the EU and more to do with how things operate within the UK.

BB--your concept of currency values is akin to the famous(not) advice from another forum "expert"  the manny who advised all and sundry to buy roubles urgently when they were at 35 to the USD$   !! Subsequently it fell to 80 before recovering a little in more recent times.

For the record- if Brexit happens-- GBP is most likely to plummet. - against not only USD but Euro also and other often traded currencies.

BB--if you are going to pontificate-- quote your source( which was Soros) and read ALL that he has predicted.I do note you ceased making yor crazy comments on Ukraine-- after actually being there in more recent times!! :)
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2016, 01:02:01 AM »
If brexit happens, I'm sure the Euro is going to lose value too

The UK isn't in the Euro and I care about the GBP falling against the Euro, Dollar, Rouble, Aussie Dollar......... ALL caused by loonies who are clueless - who think a leave vote will 'cure' immigration and the UK will be more 'independent'

The swiftest correction will be a remain vote on Thursday.





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Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2016, 01:49:04 AM »
FACT - the biggest employers don't want a Brexit ...should be a clue for any employee voting like a Turkey for Christmas / Thanks-giving


Why?  Do they get cheaper labor through immigration?  Isn't that why a lot of the people want to leave the EU?

Offline fathertime

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2016, 07:26:28 AM »
Brexit has been in the news and people in the UK are going to vote it up or down.
I wanted to know what are the pros and cons and people it might impact.

Personally, I don't know enough about it to have an opinion, and if I did it wouldn't
matter. The people of UK are more than capable of forming their opinions without
my help.

What say you?


Since it appears the 'brexit' would be harmful to the US stock market for some reason, I'd rather they suck it up and stay!  :)
Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Online BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2016, 08:02:47 AM »
The UK isn't in the Euro and I care about the GBP falling against the Euro, Dollar, Rouble, Aussie Dollar......... ALL caused by loonies who are clueless - who think a leave vote will 'cure' immigration and the UK will be more 'independent'


I consider the UK one of the stronger countries in the EU. There are some benefits being member but there are things that drag you guys down. I would be extremely disappointed if America considers joining the EU. It would become harder to do business and consequently harm our economy. I like being in control of our own destiny instead of answering to a bureaucracy that consists of people from nations that are not as successful.

With one of the stronger nations, the UK, leaving the EU, the remaining members of the EU currency will devalue. If UK is truly a strong nation, your currency will get stronger. America still does a lot of business with the EU. It's beneficial for both of us. UK will still do a lot of business with the EU too and be free to enter into trade agreements around the world without answering to a master.
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Online Faux Pas

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2016, 08:06:11 AM »
How can you say that when all the polls have "stay" and "leave" both running at around 50%?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/20/eu-referendum-poll-tracker-and-odds1/

Read my lips  :D

Offline Muzh

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2016, 09:44:14 AM »

Pythagorean theorem: …………………………………….24 words.
 Lord’s prayer:………………………………………………. 66 words.
 Archimedes’ Principle: ……………………………………. 67 words.
 10 Commandments: …………………………………….. 179 words.
 Gettysburg address: …………………………………….. 286 words.
 US Declaration of Independence : ……………….. 1,300 words.
 US Constitution with all 27 Amendments: ………. 7,818 words.
 EU regulations on the sale of cabbage:……. 26,911 words


This has been circulating on FB, mostly by right-wingers.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 09:46:17 AM by Muzh »
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Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2016, 09:56:55 AM »
The EU is wholly corrupt and has been since inception, as any fraud or coercion to sign a contract renders the contract null and void.

Heath engaged in fraud upon the British people to get into the EC  / Common Market to begin with.

Then we have Helmut Kohl admitting he acted like a dictator to get the Euro currency set up. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9981932/Helmut-Kohl-I-acted-like-a-dictator-to-bring-in-the-euro.html

See a pattern?

Also, Britain without Brexit has no effective control of its borders.

For a nation to not have control of its borders means that it has no sovereignty.
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Online BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2016, 10:41:28 AM »

This has been circulating on FB, mostly by right-wingers.  ;)


And tried real hard by left wing journalists to shoot it down as if they want us to believe they are the authority on truth. Go click on my links and search for the additional regulations and addendums and let us know how many words you counted. Most farmers just want to plant a seed and sell their product. Life doesn't have to be this difficult.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2016, 06:15:50 PM »

This has been circulating on FB, mostly by right-wingers.  ;)

Is it true?

The earlier declarations, etc. save the Constitution did not require hearings and attorneys.   However, European cabbage is worth the effort considering how precious it is.  Germany without kraut?  God forbid. 

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2016, 07:10:01 PM »
Also, Britain without Brexit has no effective control of its borders.

For a nation to not have control of its borders means that it has no sovereignty.

Serious question, Slumba - when was the last time you entered Britain?  If you're coming in by regular means (air, sea, rail), then you will find that Britain's border controls are extremely effective.  The fact that it's an island does rather help.

If you're smuggling someone or something in, that's a different matter.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2016, 09:10:36 PM »
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Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2016, 09:14:15 PM »
Serious question, Slumba - when was the last time you entered Britain?  If you're coming in by regular means (air, sea, rail), then you will find that Britain's border controls are extremely effective.  The fact that it's an island does rather help.

If you're smuggling someone or something in, that's a different matter.

Are you pretending that you have never heard of Calais?  Or just being a tosser of red herrings?
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2016, 09:16:42 PM »
Serious question, Slumba - when was the last time you entered Britain?  If you're coming in by regular means (air, sea, rail), then you will find that Britain's border controls are extremely effective.  The fact that it's an island does rather help.

If you're smuggling someone or something in, that's a different matter.


Correct.  The UK is not part of Schengen.  It controls its borders currently. 
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2016, 09:20:27 PM »
Are you pretending that you have never heard of Calais?  Or just being a tosser of red herrings?

Calais does not mean Britain does not have sovereignty over its borders currently, nor that anything in this regard would change if the UK left the EU.  I suppose Brexiters believe the number of East Europeans entering the UK would decrease.  However, even EU members must be able to support themselves when they come to Britain, and if they can't, they can be deported after 3 months.

The UK has been barred from deporting some refugees and non-citizens it wished to deport by the European Court of Human Rights.  However, the European Court of Human Rights is not tied to the EU, and the UK would still be bound by its decisions after Brexit.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2016, 09:27:06 PM »
I'll also add, the ECHR hears only a small number of cases from Britain.  Most of the cases ceasing deportation are decisions of UK courts, based on domestic legislation (Human Rights Act).  That will not change after Brexit, unless the UK Human Rights Act is amended by Parliament.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2016, 11:33:42 PM »
One thing about Brexit is that the alarmists are going overboard.

They look at all the trade that UK does with the EU and assume it will go to zero the
next day. Japan, USA and China aren't part of the EU yet all those countries do a
lot of trade with them. Would Germany want to stop exporting to UK? of course not
the UK is their 3rd largest trading partner, (USA is their largest) they would hammer
out a trade deal with them.

I'm not saying everything would be rosy or that it's a great idea, because I really
don't know, but it's just in my opinion that the alarmists (on both sides) are
exaggerating.
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Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2016, 04:52:35 AM »

Correct.  The UK is not part of Schengen.  It controls its borders currently.


Firstly, I admit I have a rudimentary understanding of the Brexit and EU which is why I am asking what is probably simpleton questions.  haha


While the UK is not part of Shengen, don't citizens (of the countries in the EU) can freely travel and work in other EU countries? 


From recollection of various articles read in the past, I was under the impression many brits were angry about jobs being taken by citizens of countries like Poland and Romania.  For less pay.   


Besides the welfare of those citizens from other EU countries.  I thought EU has stringent welfare rules that all countries must abide too.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 04:56:17 AM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2016, 12:00:12 PM »
While the UK is not part of Shengen, don't citizens (of the countries in the EU) can freely travel and work in other EU countries? 


Yes.  They can work in the UK.

Quote
From recollection of various articles read in the past, I was under the impression many brits were angry about jobs being taken by citizens of countries like Poland and Romania.  For less pay. 


Yes, that is correct.  This is part of the reason why those who are less educated support Brexit.  But, the difference is not particularly significant.  In 2015, for example, 277,000 EU citizens moved to the UK, while 270,000 UK citizens moved to the EU.  The largest number of EU citizens moving to the UK are from Ireland, not Eastern Europe.

Quote
Besides the welfare of those citizens from other EU countries.  I thought EU has stringent welfare rules that all countries must abide too.


Yes, but the UK could change its laws with respect to welfare to deal with this.  It chooses not to.
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Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2016, 12:40:22 PM »
Calais does not mean Britain does not have sovereignty over its borders currently, nor that anything in this regard would change if the UK left the EU.  I suppose Brexiters believe the number of East Europeans entering the UK would decrease.  However, even EU members must be able to support themselves when they come to Britain, and if they can't, they can be deported after 3 months.

The UK has been barred from deporting some refugees and non-citizens it wished to deport by the European Court of Human Rights.  However, the European Court of Human Rights is not tied to the EU, and the UK would still be bound by its decisions after Brexit.

You are confusing the legality of the situation with the reality of the situation.  Any EU person can enter Britain.  So unprotected EU borders = Britain without control of borders.

You are a lawyer; what does "as of right" mean?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Kingdom#As_of_right
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Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2016, 03:24:21 PM »
Thanks Bo!  Here, in the US, it isn't unknown for people to move to another state and sign up for welfare depending on how generous the state's welfare rules are.  It sounded like the same was happening in the UK.  I wasn't aware they could change it. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 03:30:23 PM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2016, 03:39:35 PM »
You are confusing the legality of the situation with the reality of the situation.  Any EU person can enter Britain.  So unprotected EU borders = Britain without control of borders.


Nope..

1/ Britain maintains border controls and EU citizens cannot enter without showing a form of ID

2/ If said EU person is a threat to Public health, hygiene, a risk to national security they CAN be refused entry ..

3/ Why Trump is being allowed in. Gawd knows ... I also signed the petition - along with nearly 600k people - to keep the clueless loon out ..but at least he and Putin will be disappointed to note British folk had the sense to vote remain



« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 03:42:01 PM by msmobyone »
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