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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 127775 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2016, 03:48:16 PM »
Thanks Bo!  Here, in the US, it isn't unknown for people to move to another state and sign up for welfare depending on how generous the state's welfare rules are.  It sounded like the same was happening in the UK.  I wasn't aware they could change it.


I don't believe most East Europeans emigrating to the UK do so for benefits.  They do so because the economy is stronger than in their home countries, and they can make more money than they do in their home countries.  The fact that they receive benefits is because of UK domestic policies, not EU policy.


Given that this is a shining example of unfettered capitalism, I'm surprised a right winger such as Slumba would view it as a negative.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2016, 03:52:38 PM »
Why Trump is being allowed in. Gawd knows ... I also signed the petition - along with nearly 600k people - to keep the clueless loon out ..but at least he and Putin will be disappointed to note British folk had the sense to vote remain


Is that final now?  The papers aren't reporting that, though I assume other media sources are more up to date.
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2016, 03:58:05 PM »

Is that final now?  The papers aren't reporting that, though I assume other media sources are more up to date.

Naw, not final..the voting stations just closed ... but this poster is going to sleep quite confident ....  :whew:
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2016, 04:07:34 PM »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2016, 05:19:40 PM »
This is part of the reason why those who are less educated support Brexit.


People who disagree with your opinion are stupid yet according to the article below, If UK leaves the EU, it may trigger more nations to leave as is it's the right choice for them to make. 6 out of 7 nations polled are very likely to leave. One thing they have in common is that they have some of the healthier economies compared to most EU nations and a leaving UK will increase their position of leverage over the EU. They will ask a lot and if the EU doesn't give it to them, they can go on their own to improve their lives. This is not stupid thinking. America is healthy but I don't see us benefiting by joining something like the EU. I view joining the EU would drag a healthy nation down since they will have to pull the weight of those that don't contribute much. Healthy nations in Europe are seeing it that way too. Are they stupid too?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/if-britain-votes-brexit-will-other-countries-follow-n597536
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 05:37:07 PM by BillyB »
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2016, 05:25:14 PM »
You are confusing the legality of the situation with the reality of the situation.  Any EU person can enter Britain.  So unprotected EU borders = Britain without control of borders.

You are a lawyer; what does "as of right" mean?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Kingdom#As_of_right

As moby pointed out, EU nationals can be denied entry to the UK.  EU nationals have mobility rights, but the UK still controls its borders. 

The reality is, the UK generally has been soft when it comes to migration, including illegal migration.  Albanians, for example, are not part of the EU, have no right to enter the UK, but tens of thousands live there illegally. 

"As of right" just means no visa is required to enter the country.

Here is an explanation of EU citizen rights re the UK -

http://fullfact.org/europe/explaining-eu-deal-deporting-eu-immigrants/
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2016, 05:28:53 PM »
Thanks Bo!  Here, in the US, it isn't unknown for people to move to another state and sign up for welfare depending on how generous the state's welfare rules are.  It sounded like the same was happening in the UK.  I wasn't aware they could change it.


Here also is an explanation of access to benefits for EU members in the UK -


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25134521
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2016, 05:36:26 PM »
People who disagree with your opinion are stupid


While I generally do not respond to your posts, as I have virtually no respect for you, this is not what I stated.  I merely noted what I have read in UK papers.  So, take it up with them rather than me.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2016, 05:49:11 PM »
I merely noted what I have read in UK papers.  So, take it up with them rather than me.


You write your posts as if they were your opinion on how you see your facts. You want to give UK papers the credit for calling those who disagree stupid, link their articles. From what I've read, healthier nations in Europe are more likely to leave the EU than struggling nations who don't function well.

While I generally do not respond to your posts, as I have virtually no respect for you,

 

At least we're back to talking to each other. It's a start.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2016, 05:53:36 PM »


I'm indifferent

From all I have read, the educated, and the young, favour staying in the EU.  Those who are less educated favour exiting, as their livelihoods have been affected by downward pressure on wages.


You can find your own links.  I've been reading on this issue for months.  I have no opinion on whether the UK should stay or go, either way.  Why would I?  It won't affect me.



« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 06:46:18 PM by Boethius »
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2016, 08:10:08 PM »
Are you pretending that you have never heard of Calais?  Or just being a tosser of red herrings?

Last time I looked, Calais was in France - not Great Britain.

You are confusing the legality of the situation with the reality of the situation.  Any EU person can enter Britain.  So unprotected EU borders = Britain without control of borders.

Of course, any EU person can enter Britain - if they have the correct proof of who they are, and of which country they're a citizen.  Otherwise, just look at moby's post again.

1/ Britain maintains border controls and EU citizens cannot enter without showing a form of ID

2/ If said EU person is a threat to Public health, hygiene, a risk to national security they CAN be refused entry ..

Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2016, 08:33:29 PM »
Last time I looked, Calais was in France - not Great Britain.

Of course, any EU person can enter Britain - if they have the correct proof of who they are, and of which country they're a citizen.  Otherwise, just look at moby's post again.

So basically you don't understand, because you don't know.

Let me assist you :

http://www.google.com/search?q=calais+immigration+to+uk&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Again, you are dealing with legality, not reality. 

Reality is:

"Most [of the new EU passport holders] came from outside the EU, mainly from Morocco, Albania and Turkey. "

as in this article http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/679531/migrant-crisis-five-million-new-EU-citizens-given-right-enter-Britain

Why don't you go ahead and tell me what the likely nationality and religion of the new EU passport holders is likely to be...
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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2016, 08:47:27 PM »
With about 50% of the vote in the Leave side is ahead by 500,000 votes. It's not over for the Remain side yet but it's going to be an uphill battle for them for the remainder of the night.

I won't be surprised if the Leave side wins but an unforeseen consequence of this Brexit referendum is it may force another Scottish independence referendum.

Brass
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 08:49:23 PM by Brasscasing »
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Offline Larry1

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2016, 09:08:38 PM »
Brass beat me to posting the current totals, but the following link contains a lot of information about the voting. Nigel Farage is happy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-results-live-brexit-most-likely-outcome-says-leadi/

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2016, 09:49:11 PM »
I lied..couldn't sleep..

Leave will win

The UK GBP has fallen 10 percent against the US Dollar and the stock market's are WAY down

I simply cannot believe so many people were SO stupid..


If this 'independence' and one voted for a Britain that will be 'economically stronger' .... they need to examine their navels

Only time will show that immigration won't fall - as illegal immigration will go through the roof

I am lucky - I am an EU citizen by my Irish Passport  ... I fear for the uncertainty this will bring in the whole of Europe.
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2016, 09:53:08 PM »
I lied..couldn't sleep..

Leave will win

The UK GBP has fallen 10 percent against the US Dollar and the stock market's are WAY down

I simply cannot believe so many people were SO stupid..


If this 'independence' and one voted for a Britain that will be 'economically stronger' .... they need to examine their navels

Only time will show that immigration won't fall - as illegal immigration will go through the roof

I am lucky - I am an EU citizen by my Irish Passport  ... I fear for the uncertainty this will bring in the whole of Europe.

THREE CHEERS for the restoration of Europe after the fall of the corrupt EU!

Separate countries can trade with each other, without a bunch of corrupt pedophiles in Brussels telling everyone what they can or cannot do.

Sweden for the Swedes, Norway for the Norwegians, Germany for the Germans, etc. 

There can be plenty of diversity   8)
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2016, 10:00:04 PM »
THREE CHEERS for the restoration of Europe after the fall of the corrupt EU!



Oh yeah,

Those voting leave did so on the premise that

1/ immigration will fall

2/ Britain will be stronger - example better pensions

Please explain to me - how the GBP falling so much - as are the markets -is something to 'cheer' about ?

These idiots voting leave are only sending UK PLC into dangerous waters which will result in a weaker and smaller UK

Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2016, 10:04:36 PM »
Oh yeah,

Those voting leave did so on the premise that

1/ immigration will fall

2/ Britain will be stronger - example better pensions

Please explain to me - how the GBP falling so much - as are the markets -is something to 'cheer' about ?

These idiots voting leave are only sending UK PLC into dangerous waters which will result in a weaker and smaller UK

1. Freedom is more important than money. 

2. If the pound falls, exports rise, more people visit via tourism (actual tourists, not dodgy migrants), as 2 examples.

3. The pound falls not because of Brexit but because of uncertainty. 
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Online 2tallbill

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2016, 10:08:15 PM »
Oh yeah,

Please explain to me - how the GBP falling so much - as are the markets -is something to 'cheer' about ?

These idiots voting leave are only sending UK PLC into dangerous waters which will result in a weaker and smaller UK

If I had a few dollars for speculation (I don't right now) I would buy some GBP. I think
the markets over reacted. Time will tell if the market corrects or not.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2016, 10:24:22 PM »

I'd like to wish the people of the UK the best after their newfound independence. Your politicians have lots of work to do and hopefully they will find the strength to give their best effort in moving the UK in the right direction. They will have to work on the details for separating from the EU and work at making new trade agreements around the world. This will not be an easy transition and although the pound is expected to devalue during the transition, it will be temporary. The vote was close and many are still divided but the choice is made and the people of the UK need to be strong and continue to work hard. Do that and everything will be alright. Independence isn't so bad. Just ask Americans.
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Online Gator

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2016, 10:33:00 PM »
The Brits have voted against the ESTABLISMENT.  Is America next? 

Offline southernX

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2016, 10:34:46 PM »
at the end of the day the fact remains that the UK has been a country of desire for many people

that will not change because they leave the EU

they still will be a place people will desire to interact with in all the various ways , yes there will be a correction in the short term thats to be expected , but im sure it will level out to a new ''norm '' quickly enough

can say as i blame the uk peoples for voting to leave , i would have been a yes vote myself if i lived there  ;)

SX
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2016, 10:44:58 PM »
The Brits have voted against the ESTABLISMENT.  Is America next?


How did they vote against the establishment?


Brexit came about because because the Tory party was tearing itself apart.  Two thirds of Tory MP's (as the party in power, the "establishment") supported Brexit.  Had this debate not been occurring in the governing party, there would have been no vote.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2016, 10:45:50 PM »
Brexit is bad for Ukraine, BTW, as the UK has always been one of Ukraine's staunchest allies within the EU.  France, Italy and Germany, not so much.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2016, 10:50:37 PM »
LOL on comments regarding Britain's "independence".  This was a country that, at one point, ruled almost half the world and, almost until WWII, was the world's powerhouse. 
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

 

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