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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 83935 times)

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Offline Muzh

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #200 on: June 26, 2016, 02:55:09 PM »

I'd have to read the entire set of comments by Obama, but really he shouldn't have tried to wield his influence...like that...I can see why his comments would piss off a citizen of the UK.  Nobody wants a foreign leader telling the citizenry what to do, especially if they don't feel it is in their own best interests...I could see some votes being swayed for that reason alone. 



Well at least we didn't start threatening to bomb the UK....we don't give other nations that same break though! 


Fathertime!


FT, everytime I read statement like this from you I wonder what is your opinion the POTUS is to do? The leader of the strongest army in the world. What should he do?
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #201 on: June 26, 2016, 02:57:59 PM »

Correction: Obama is still darker of skin.

Consider the context.  My response came  in response to some cynical humor.  Consider the context. 

However, your blind spot prevents you from recognizing such.    You have no logical comeback, so you yell "racist."  Typical silencing tactic of the left.   

You are just like the one Democrat Congressmen during their sit-in stunt (singing "We shall overcome" is an insult to the courage and importance of the civil rights protestors of the 1960s).   Anyway, after a Republican stated  "Islamic terrorism kills," the Democrat replied to him, "You are a racist."  WTF!

Saying racist a thousand times does not make it the truth.  It does imprint you with feelings that you are correct and that other people are beneath you.  It ends dialogue.   

Muzh, I do not want to think of you in low regard; however, if you keep using this silencing tactric what should I think?

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #202 on: June 26, 2016, 03:03:17 PM »

This is what I meant by EUR moving to the far right. Nationalism is on the rise and you know what happened when European countries started that bullshit.

Rejecting the EU or by extension globalism is not "moving to the far right", old friend. :)

The EU by it's inaction in critical affairs, it's bloated bureaucracy and it's incompetent handling of the migrant issue have created this mess. What the people of the UK have decided is they don't want to be a part of that mess anymore. Good on them.

If other EU countries decide they've had enough of it as well and follow the UK's lead then so be it.

It could be this idea of the global economy/globalism has reached it's high water mark and the pendulum is starting to swing back towards the middle.

Imo this isn't something to be feared but celebrated. The EU is a failed experiment. Time to throw it on the scrap heap where it belongs (I posted as much last year). 

Brass   
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 03:04:48 PM by Brasscasing »
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Offline Muzh

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #203 on: June 26, 2016, 03:17:27 PM »
Consider the context.  My response came  in response to some cynical humor.  Consider the context. 

However, your blind spot prevents you from recognizing such.    You have no logical comeback, so you yell "racist."  Typical silencing tactic of the left.   

You are just like the one Democrat Congressmen during their sit-in stunt (singing "We shall overcome" is an insult to the courage and importance of the civil rights protestors of the 1960s).   Anyway, after a Republican stated  "Islamic terrorism kills," the Democrat replied to him, "You are a racist."  WTF!

Saying racist a thousand times does not make it the truth.  It does imprint you with feelings that you are correct and that other people are beneath you.  It ends dialogue.   

Muzh, I do not want to think of you in low regard; however, if you keep using this silencing tactric what should I think?


Heh, I have been considering the context for the last 7 or so years. I haven't read so much rancor towards one POTUS including Dubya. And man, was he a nitwit. But he was treated with the respect that office deserves. That is, until the Nigr got there.


You know, I admit openly that I'm a liberal. I have a lot more respect for people who are honest, including the racist bigots who openly admit to it. The silencing tactic is the one that dismiss bigotry because the acuser is a liberal.
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Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #204 on: June 26, 2016, 03:19:42 PM »

I was listening o some radio reports and many of the interviewed were say basically the same: they didn't expect Brexit to win, all they wanted was to send a message to the "establishment."


Very well "educated" guess, ain't it?


I have been seeing the same thing.  I don't know how widespread, but many are saying they wished they voted for staying.  lol

Offline Muzh

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #205 on: June 26, 2016, 03:22:33 PM »
Rejecting the EU or by extension globalism is not "moving to the far right", old friend. :)

The EU by it's inaction in critical affairs, it's bloated bureaucracy and it's incompetent handling of the migrant issue have created this mess. What the people of the UK have decided is they don't want to be a part of that mess anymore. Good on them.

If other EU countries decide they've had enough of it as well and follow the UK's lead then so be it.

It could be this idea of the global economy/globalism has reached it's high water mark and the pendulum is starting to swing back towards the middle.

Imo this isn't something to be feared but celebrated. The EU is a failed experiment. Time to throw it on the scrap heap where it belongs (I posted as much last year). 

Brass   


Brass, I agree with you that the EU, as it exists right now is a failed experiment. The concept of a united Europe is still a lofty goal. Also it is a wolrd security goal. You cannot let these people start a path towards nationalism. It has been a bad idea for many centuries.
"Mr Putin is discovering that global finance is more frightened of the US Securities and Exchange Commission than Russian T90 tanks."

Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #206 on: June 26, 2016, 03:22:46 PM »

Heh, I have been considering the context for the last 7 or so years. I haven't read so much rancor towards one POTUS including Dubya. And man, was he a nitwit. But he was treated with the respect that office deserves. That is, until the Nigr got there.


You know, I admit openly that I'm a liberal. I have a lot more respect for people who are honest, including the racist bigots who openly admit to it. The silencing tactic is the one that dismiss bigotry because the acuser is a liberal.

You seem unwilling to admit that some see  Obama as a commie rat gay Muslim who is ineligible to be President in the first place. 

No use of "nigr" needed as there is plenty to detest about him no matter his skin color.

Clarence Thomas and Alan Keyes are darker than Obama, yet the right wingers you claim are rayciss like both of them.
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Offline Muzh

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #207 on: June 26, 2016, 03:23:13 PM »

I have been seeing the same thing.  I don't know how widespread, but many are saying they wished they voted for staying.  lol


Worst case of buyer's remorse I've seen.  ;)
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Offline Muzh

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #208 on: June 26, 2016, 03:24:03 PM »
You seem unwilling to admit thatsome see  Obama as a commie rat gay Muslim who is ineligible to be President in the first place. 

No use of "nigr" needed as there is plenty to detest about him no matter his skin color.

Clarence Thomas and Alan Keyes are darker than Obama, yet the right wingers you claim are rayciss like both of them.


Oh mercy look whoi's talking.


Sieg Heil
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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #209 on: June 26, 2016, 03:40:41 PM »

Worst case of buyer's remorse I've seen.  ;)

I can't help but wonder how many people are just out of camera frame lining up to declare they'd like to change their vote for the Leave side though. :D

If the media can line up a million and half more people (including the people who've changed their mind for Exit since the vote) wishing they'd voted the other way other than the one or two that keep getting replayed through the news cycles there may be an argument.

Brass
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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #210 on: June 26, 2016, 03:58:53 PM »

Brass, I agree with you that the EU, as it exists right now is a failed experiment. The concept of a united Europe is still a lofty goal. Also it is a wolrd security goal. You cannot let these people start a path towards nationalism. It has been a bad idea for many centuries.

Let's not forget that the United Kingdom is in itself a union of individual states with various degrees of autonomy. We see that in two of these state regions were pro EU and the fallout as a result.

It could be argued "Nationalism" as you and I might define it is the least of the UK's worries right now. :P

Brass
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #211 on: June 26, 2016, 04:52:23 PM »

Heh, I have been considering the context for the last 7 or so years. I haven't read so much rancor towards one POTUS including Dubya. And man, was he a nitwit. But he was treated with the respect that office deserves. That is, until the Nigr got there.


Unlike Bush, Obama is intelligent.   Both Bush and Obama made big mistakes, yet each time the liberal leaning media has given Obama a pass.    So what is the difference to explain the supposed rancor? 
 

In comparison with Bush, Obama is arrogant, undemocratic to the point of excluding half of America, secretive, and dishonest.  He may be hypocritical and I could nominate others.  Enough!   These faults are not why I dislike Obama.  I dislike him because he further divided the country, mostly by not being the leader who would step in and fix the festering partisan problem.   Leadership starts at the top.  He could have succeeded.  Obama missed the opportunity of a lifetime.  Race had nothing to do with Obama failing to be the man we needed. 

In 2009 I merely questioned Obama.  Today, I really dislike the man, more than I should because in a way I agree with some of his policies. 

Even with all of Obama's faults and mistakes, his approval ratings have climbed here in his final year although the economy  that never fully recovered is now on the edge of teetering.  Why did his ratings climb?  He looks good when compared  with his two potential successors.  God help America.

Quote
The silencing tactic is the one that dismiss bigotry because the acuser is a liberal.

Because I am near speechless, the effectiveness of this silencing tactic is demonstrated.  Between being distracted by your absurdity and my watching a ball game, I missed bidding on something my wife wanted at a local auction.  I did buy her some nice  .....

Finding this give and take more frustrating than it is worth,  I am silenced.  Better that than saying what I really think. 

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #212 on: June 26, 2016, 06:44:49 PM »
Even with all of Obama's faults and mistakes, his approval ratings have climbed here in his final year although the economy  that never fully recovered is now on the edge of teetering.  Why did his ratings climb?  He looks good when compared  with his two potential successors.  God help America.

You said it!

P.S.  Our refugee quota is quite capable of absorbing the odd citizen of the USA, if you'd like to try living in a really peaceful country.  8)

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #213 on: June 26, 2016, 07:14:04 PM »
The EU requires UK to have open borders between member states.

Citizens travelling (or moving countries) within the EU still have to produce the appropriate documentation to show that they are legally allowed to do so.  That applies everywhere they go, including the UK.  Those who aren't already citizens, such as the Syrian refugees, still have to have some form of acceptable ID.

It doesn't matter if UK is taking few Syrian refugees now. When those refugees become legal to live in the EU, they will be coming.

WHEN those refugees become legal, in several years' time, the immigration laws may well have changed.  In the meantime, the UK will accept those who have the legal right to immigrate.

A lot of people who voted for Brexit wants the UK to have control over their own borders.

As moby, Boethius and I all posted upthread, the UK already has this control.

In the past you said those refugees will be productive and help the EU's economy. If you really believe that fantasy, you should take them all. Build them houses and they'll build NZ into an economic powerhouse.

No, Billy, I didn't say that at all.  What I DID say was this (click the link, because I'm not going to repost the entire thread):


As for taking them all, I've already answered that in Reply #159 above.

Offline BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #214 on: June 26, 2016, 10:11:04 PM »

As moby, Boethius and I all posted upthread, the UK already has this control.


Wonderful. Those voting for Brexit based on immigration concerns don't know what they're doing. They are the uneducated voters. If only they listened to you three.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #215 on: June 26, 2016, 10:27:37 PM »

FP, I really don't understand nor grasp your statement. Why on Earth would banks want to punish GB? I'm betting that right now the financial markets are scrambling to maintain some sort of fiscal stability because what's coming up is a major roller-coaster ride. There are no winners here, from a financial point of view.

The old adage is always follow the money. The central banks essentially is the EU and Britain is still a strong financial market and it's contribution to the Euro was/is very large. A couple of things are very unstable as a result of UK leaving, one is the Euro and the other is the European Union. Greece, Spain, Italy, the Baltics certainly are not going to prop up the currency or hold the Union together. France and Germany are quite extended. The World bank is pissed

Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #216 on: June 26, 2016, 11:00:14 PM »

As moby, Boethius and I all posted upthread, the UK already has this control.



So to clarify, a guy from NZ, a woman from Canada and an Irish passport holder have more knowledge about UK border controls and how things actually work (reality vs legality), than the millions of Britons who live, work, and voted in Brexit. 

Got it.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #217 on: June 26, 2016, 11:06:21 PM »
The laws are easily available to anyone who is interested.

Today, Boris Johnson stated Brexit was not about immigration. But as the most prominent pro Brexit Tory and face of the Brexit campaign, what could he possibly know?
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Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #218 on: June 26, 2016, 11:30:09 PM »
The laws are easily available to anyone who is interested.

Today, Boris Johnson stated Brexit was not about immigration. But as the most prominent pro Brexit Tory and face of the Brexit campaign, what could he possibly know?

According to USA laws, there are no illegal immigrants in the borders of the USA, who have committed crimes, served their time, and who remain inside the borders of the USA, as they were all deported instead of being released back into the community.

Get your brain out of "legality" mode and into "reality" mode, it might help your cognitive processing.

Google News search on "Brexit immigration" or any other terms you desire... it's quite clear that immigration was a big part of the debate. 

If it wasn't about immigration, then no Brexit supporter should be called xenophobic as a result of their vote. Do you agree?
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #219 on: June 26, 2016, 11:34:44 PM »
But if legality is irrelevant, nothing re immigration will change post Brexit.

BTW, moby's lives in the UK. Where his passport is from is irrelevant.
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Offline JayH

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #220 on: June 27, 2016, 04:28:21 AM »
So to clarify, a guy from NZ, a woman from Canada and an Irish passport holder have more knowledge about UK border controls and how things actually work (reality vs legality), than the millions of Britons who live, work, and voted in Brexit. 

Got it.

Patrick--there is a vast difference from actually knowing and understanding  on any topic- and the contrast with what can be googled or read in Wiki . :)

The latter is the domain of forum pretend know it alls-- particularly as practiced on rua by the legend in his own matchbox FiFi.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline BC

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #221 on: June 27, 2016, 04:51:58 AM »
So to clarify, a guy from NZ, a woman from Canada and an Irish passport holder have more knowledge about UK border controls and how things actually work (reality vs legality), than the millions of Britons who live, work, and voted in Brexit. 

Got it.

Add to the list USExpat living in eu and other countries all his life married to RUW who although has permanent residence status needed a visa just to visit UK.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #222 on: June 27, 2016, 05:08:47 AM »
So to clarify, a guy from NZ, a woman from Canada and an Irish passport holder have more knowledge about UK border controls and how things actually work (reality vs legality), than the millions of Britons who live, work, and voted in Brexit. 

Got it.

Indeed you have it

I am a UK Citizen and passport holder, too

Having used Border controls at over 30 plus ports of entry - Scotland, Wales, England, N.Ireland and the Border controls at the Chunnel,[ as a Train passenger, frieght terminal, and car ] - Paris plus Dunkirk and Calais - I think I might just know.....

After the Good Friday Agreement - I decided to get an Irish passport as it  is convenient to have two passports - if one is getting a visa

Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #223 on: June 27, 2016, 07:27:02 AM »
It's easier to immigrate to the Eu than America. Once established in the EU, they can come to America. 9/11 showed that scenario. Although UK didn't take their fair share if Syrian immigrants, that may be due to the fact Brexit was on the plate. Next go around the EU will pressure UK to do more or get less. Those Syrian refugees will someday be able to travel more freely in the EU and go to the US. Many aren't trying to embrace your way of life. Some and their children will be radicalized and will want to change your way of life to theirs. I normally defend immigration although many complain immigrants will steal their jobs. I don't see any benefits to the Recent Syrian immigration. I don't believe those people will pull their own weight.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #224 on: June 27, 2016, 07:39:36 AM »

Here are his comments, starting at about 13:30 -




And here is an op-ed piece Obama penned -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/as-your-friend-let-me-tell-you-that-the-eu-makes-britain-even-gr/




Personally, I don't find either sticking his nose in the election, nor out of line.


after watching the speech, I will have to retract my earlier comments regarding Obama being inappropriate....what we have here is a a few people distorting his comments once again, I should have known....  In that speech Obama merely stated the realities of the situation.   He went out of his way to mention that obviously it was there choice, and that he hoped they would stay in the EU...No big threats like others later purport.


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

 

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