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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 75522 times)

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Offline TigerPaws

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #275 on: June 29, 2016, 09:30:13 AM »
The foreign ministers of France and Germany are reportedly due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum.” As The Express reports, the shockingly predictable final solution to Europe’s Brexit-driven existential crisis is an apparently long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one giant superstate. The radical proposals mean EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels. According to the Daily Express, the nine-page report has “outraged” some EU leaders.
The plans for ‘a closer European Union’ have been branded an attempt to create a ‘European superstate’, as The Daily Mail reports

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #276 on: June 29, 2016, 09:38:59 AM »
The Express and the Daily Mail are sensationalist rags. Th EU cannot implement change without the consent of all member states.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Brasscasing

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« Reply #277 on: June 29, 2016, 09:51:12 AM »
After days of the left wing media screaming and wailing from the roof tops about the world markets there has not been a word of this on the news this a.m....

Global Markets Rise as Brexit Worries Ease

..."Fears that last week’s U.K. vote could disrupt the world economy seem to have receded"...

..."Global markets gained Wednesday, extending a broad rally as fears receded that the U.K.’s referendum vote last week to leave the European Union would disrupt the world economy."...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/global-markets-rise-as-brexit-worries-ease-1467185655



FTSE 100 jumps nearly 3% despite Brexit recession fears – live updates
 
..."Stock markets in Asia and Europe are recovering, despite the massive uncertainty caused by last week’s EU referendum

FTSE up 169 points heading into close despite Brexit mess"...

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/jun/29/brexit-stock-markets-shares-higher-pound-business-live

The media driven Brexit apocalypse appears to be lasting less than a week.  ;)

In other news...

EU leaders meet without UK to plan Brexit response

..."European leaders insisted Britain must allow freedom of movement if it wanted to access the single market during their first meeting in Brussels without the UK.

“There will be no single market a la carte,” said Donald Tusk, the EU Council president, as the group met to set out the terms of engagement for any divorce talks in the wake of the Brexit vote."...

www.ft.com

I liken this to a chicken with it's head chopped off and the remainder of the body  flapping around as if it's still alive.

Surely these clowns must realize that it's not what the EU plans to do with the UK but in reality how the UK will handle the EU, it's access to the UK market and economy.

Could it be these individuals don't understand that it was the UK that made the EU viable not the other way around.  :rolleyes:

Brass

« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 09:54:39 AM by Brasscasing »
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

Offline Brasscasing

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« Reply #278 on: June 29, 2016, 10:38:55 AM »
UK and Continental Europe have enjoyed peace and prosperity ever since 1945.  A key reason:  interconnected economies created by trade among each other.  Why kill this Golden Goose!

Firstly, I'd just like to point out what you describe in this paragraph took an amazing amount of money, time and effort from many nations including the UK, Canada, Commonwealth nations, the US and several other non continental European countries post WW2.

Now over the last 25 years or so the EU has been allowed (with the UK more or less being the voice of reason) to run their own affairs again...and well...just look at the results. They're back to square one and the rest of the world is again living with the results of their mostly incompetent decisions...sound familiar?

Yes, there has been trade and interconnected economies but imo no more than there would have been without an EU or at least the EU in it's current incarnation. It's predecessor, the EEC and before that the ECSC were both viable/sustainable organizations for handling trade in Europe without all the associated nonsense of the modern EU.

Emotion runs freely now, and unchecked speculation abounds.  As calm and reason are restored, I feel some statesmen will start communicating and can seek a win-win hybrid other than "IN" or "OUT."

Indeed. Now that the world media appears to be calming down, the globalists have slowed down the wailing and self flagellation and the world markets and pound sterling is returning to normal we may see the EU start to understand what is really going on here.

However, as the article I linked in my last post before this narrative intimates, it seems the EU is still under the impression they're in the driver's seat. This is not the case and those ministers should stop the punitive language and start working with the UK to try and keep what's left of their European experiment from further disintegration.

Regarding UK, if they do exit completely, is there a reason why the US and UK could not continue to trade under the prior arrangements.

Not according to Obama if we're to take his threats seriously.

Brass
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 12:39:32 PM by Brasscasing »
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

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Offline TigerPaws

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #279 on: June 29, 2016, 10:46:13 AM »
European SUPERSTATE to be unveiled: EU nations 'to be morphed into one' post-BrexitEUROPEAN political chiefs are to take advantage of Brexit by unveiling their long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one GIANT SUPER State
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

EU Officials To Unveil 'Ultimatum' Blueprint As Final Solution For European Super-State.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-27/eu-officials-unveil-ultimatum-blueprint-final-solution-european-super-state


The cockroaches come into the light.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 10:50:00 AM by TigerPaws »

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« Reply #280 on: June 29, 2016, 12:06:00 PM »
Quote
Simple Definition of xenophobia   
  •   : fear or hatred of strangers or foreigners

OK, forget about 'fear or hatred'...what if you just plain don't like something?
So you have to like it or lump it?
Tell that to the Turks.

   Trending Istanbul Airport Attack M&Ds Theme Park EU Referendum result Next Conservative leader David Cameron EU referendum 
Quote
Sharia Law is alive and well in the UK as investigation uncovers shocking details       
  • 13:21, 5 Dec 2015
  • Updated   15:19, 5 Dec 2015 
  • By Alex Wellman
   When one woman asked for help with her abusive husband, one judge allegedly laughed and said: "Why did you marry such a person?"   
  •   Shares
  •   27 comments 
               Getty Muslim man arrives at Birmingham Central Mosque   Muslim man arrives at Birmingham Central Mosque     An Islamic judge "laughed" at a domestic violence victim who had gone to him seeking help and asked her "Why did you marry such a man?", it has been claimed.
The shocking allegations have been revealed in a report into the use of sharia councils in the UK which also claims men only need to say "I divorce you" three times to separate from their wives while women need the sanction of clerics.
Dutch scholar Machteld Zee managed to get unparalleled access to a number of the religious courts currently operating in the UK - thought to number around 30.
Her report, entitled Choosing Sharia? Multiculturalism, Islamic Fundamentalism and British Sharia Councils which has been seen by the Independent newspaper, also claims one judge, known as a qadi at a sharia council also said UK law did not matter in cases of divorce.
In one court in east London, it is claimed the qadi told a couple who had already obtained a civil divorce that the paper counted for nothing.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sharia-law-alive-well-uk-6957168

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« Reply #281 on: June 29, 2016, 12:13:35 PM »
The Express and the Daily Mail are sensationalist rags. 

Does 'sensationalist' mean they don't suck up to the established status quo?
Quote
      A distraught wife seeking a divorce at a Sharia Court in London holds her head in her hands as she sits with judge Suhaib Hasan  height=421 +5     A distraught wife seeking a divorce at a Sharia Court in London holds her head in her hands as she sits with judge Suhaib Hasan When the husband’s around, he forces her to wear a headscarf. When he isn’t, which is often, he likes to travel to Tunisia, where she suspects he has secretly married several other women.
For all she knows, she adds, he might have accumulated as many as ten other wives. Fighting back tears, as she finishes this tale of betrayal, the woman glances to the cleric, who has a long white beard, and sits at a raised desk in front of a bookcase full of Islamic texts. Perhaps she’s hoping for a supportive smile, confirming she’s not at fault. Maybe she’s seeking reassurance that the man will hold her misogynistic, wife-beating husband to account.
Instead, the elderly cleric, whose name is Suhaib Hasan, starts laughing. ‘Why did you marry such a person?’ he chuckles.
 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html


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« Reply #283 on: June 29, 2016, 04:04:34 PM »



Another insightful report from the Pew Research Center.  The report is dated June 7, so the conclusion that EU members have a less favorable view of the EU describes the situation before the Brexit vote. 

Two other headlines from the report reveal much. 

               1.  Europeans generally disapprove of EU’s handling of economy.
               2.  Overwhelming majorities unhappy with EU’s handling of refugees.

One would  think the issues of the economy and refugees would be compelling reasons to think the EU is failing.  However, about half of the surveyed member countries still had a slightly favorable view of the EU.
           

Another chart states  "Disagreement on ‘ever closer’ union."  I find this title so understated as to be misleading.   The respondents from all countries except Poland wanted some powers returned to the national govt.  They outnumbered by a significant margin those who wanted powers to remain the same.     Further telling, the third alternative of giving more power to the EU was a distant third except in all countries except Germany, France and Spain. 

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/pm_2016-06-07_brexit-05/ 



In summary, the UK was not alone in feeling the EU is failing them.  UK's action was radical.  It may not start a contagion, but it should start a more pressing dialogue about reforming the EU to curtail its social programs and focus on the economy.  Will Germany and France listen?   Over time the pendulum of politics  always swings, one way or the other.     

 



Offline Boethius

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« Reply #284 on: June 29, 2016, 04:12:18 PM »
Does 'sensationalist' mean they don't suck up to the established status quo?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html


If sharia law applies, the man in the story has not followed it, as Muslim men are not allowed to have 10 wives.


Sharia law does not supplant British law, BTW.  It is used only when the parties agree to take a dispute to the courts.  It is merely a form of mediation.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline JayH

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« Reply #285 on: June 29, 2016, 04:31:32 PM »
Some writers do get to the crux of issues-in this case he could be describing so many of our posters here!

     
The Brexit has laid bare the political schism of our time. It’s not about the left vs. the right; it’s about the sane vs. the mindlessly angry


The schism we see opening before us is not just about policies, but about reality. The Brexit forces won because cynical leaders were prepared to cater to voters’ paranoia, lying to them about the dangers of immigration and the costs of membership in the EU. Some of those leaders have already begun to admit that they were lying. Donald Trump has, of course, set a new standard for disingenuousness and catering to voters’ fears, whether over immigration or foreign trade or anything else he can think of. The Republican Party, already rife with science-deniers and economic reality-deniers, has thrown itself into the embrace of a man who fabricates realities that ignorant people like to inhabit.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/28/its-time-for-the-elites-to-rise-up-against-ignorant-masses-trump-2016-brexit/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=Flashpoints


« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 06:10:26 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Slumba

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« Reply #286 on: June 29, 2016, 04:53:51 PM »
Some writers do get to the crux of issues-in this case he could be describing so many of our posters here!

     
The Brexit has laid bare the political schism of our time. It’s not about the left vs. the right; it’s about the sane vs. the mindlessly angr
y.

The schism we see opening before us is not just about policies, but about reality. The Brexit forces won because cynical leaders were prepared to cater to voters’ paranoia, lying to them about the dangers of immigration and the costs of membership in the EU. Some of those leaders have already begun to admit that they were lying. Donald Trump has, of course, set a new standard for disingenuousness and catering to voters’ fears, whether over immigration or foreign trade or anything else he can think of. The Republican Party, already rife with science-deniers and economic reality-deniers, has thrown itself into the embrace of a man who fabricates realities that ignorant people like to inhabit.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/28/its-time-for-the-elites-to-rise-up-against-ignorant-masses-trump-2016-brexit/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=Flashpoints

Pick one or more of the following:

Racist
Ignorant
Xenophobic
Uneducated
Deluded
Small penis
Etc.

Already heard them all (check the gun thread).

Newsflash: it no longer works.

People who are paying 35% taxes on their labor remember that Apple is able to use legal wrangling to pretend that Ireland where they have almost no employees is the source of over 2.5 billion dollars in profit.

Globalism is just another way for the rich to avoid paying taxes.

Immigration is just another way for the State to enhance its power: mass immigration is the State electing itself a new voting bloc.

Do you believe that the statements made by Aussie politicians, about destroying the Australian/White people by turning them all into a "Eurasian" race, are not true?

Quote
In 1983, former Foreign Minister, Bill Hayden said “There’s already a large and growing Asian population in Australia and it is inevitable in my view that Australia will become a Eurasian country over the next century or two. Australian Asians and Europeans will marry another and a new race will emerge; I happen to think that’s desirable.”



“[We] should welcome the process of gradually becoming a Eurasian-type society. We will not just become a multicultural society – which seems to me to be a soft sort of terminology anyway – we will become a Eurasian society and be the better for it.”

or

Quote
Former Liberal Prime Minister, John Gorton:

“I think that if we build up inside Australia a proportion of people without White skins, then there will be a complete lack of consciousness that it is being built up … and that we will arrive at a state where we will have a multi-racial country without racial tensions – and perhaps the first in the world.”

Population replacement of this sort has a specific name, according to the UN:  it is termed "genocide".
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 05:10:42 PM by Slumba »
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Offline JayH

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« Reply #287 on: June 29, 2016, 06:17:52 PM »
The headline fits the narrative well.

FWIW--   John Gorton was Australian Prime Minister( after succeeding Harold Holt who drowned) from 1967-1971 was born in 1911.
All a long time ago in political terms.Things change.

SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

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« Reply #288 on: June 29, 2016, 06:22:48 PM »

If sharia law applies, the man in the story has not followed it, as Muslim men are not allowed to have 10 wives.

My understanding is that the muslim man does not have to follow sharia matrimonial law...only the women do... :crackwhip:  crack that whip

Quote
One Husband - 4 Wives? How can you justify that a man can have four wives in Islam?
If you want to criticize us because we can have four wives, how many girlfriends can you have legally in the state of California? As many as you can fit in your car or your van I guess. There is no limit, you can go rent a bus.
 
 But we have limits, we can not have more than one unless we treat them with the same equality.
 

http://www.justaskislam.com/56/one-husband-4-wives/

Hey, that's a good answer :rolleyes:








 
 

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #289 on: June 29, 2016, 06:28:07 PM »
My understanding is that the muslim man does not have to follow sharia matrimonial law...only the women do... :crackwhip:  crack that whip

http://www.justaskislam.com/56/one-husband-4-wives/

Hey, that's a good answer :rolleyes:


No, that is inaccurate.  Failure to follow this is called "haram".

Islam is very strict on this.  A man can have up to four wives.  He must treat them equally.  People being people, that doesn't happen, just as most Christians lead less than Christ like lives.  However, the imam's comments on the wife in the link your provided was because the man was not following Islam.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

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« Reply #290 on: June 29, 2016, 06:42:48 PM »

No, that is inaccurate.  Failure to follow this is called "haram".

Islam is very strict on this.  A man can have up to four wives.  He must treat them equally.  People being people, that doesn't happen, just as most Christians lead less than Christ like lives.  However, the imam's comments on the wife in the link your provided was because the man was not following Islam.

Of course, you are leaving out "Nikah mutah" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%E2%80%98ah ...
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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #291 on: June 29, 2016, 07:02:44 PM »
No, even with such temporary marriages, the total cannot exceed four wives.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

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« Reply #292 on: June 29, 2016, 07:13:35 PM »
No, even with such temporary marriages, the total cannot exceed four wives.

Gee, given all that, I can sleep better tonight.

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« Reply #293 on: June 29, 2016, 07:44:45 PM »
Do you believe that the statements made by Aussie politicians, about destroying the Australian/White people by turning them all into a "Eurasian" race, are not true?

or

Population replacement of this sort has a specific name, according to the UN:  it is termed "genocide".

Once again you display a leap of illogicality that is utterly breathtaking.  Neither of the quotes refers to "destruction" of white people, nor to "replacing" the population.  What they are doing is expressing the hope that, at some time in the future, everyone in Australia will be so racially mixed that they will, in essence, all be the same ethnicity, and will have no need or excuse to harbour racist thoughts about other people who are simply a different colour.

Of course it may be pie in the sky, given the population of Australia, but New Zealand is certainly heading well down that track.  I'm white, but I've had Indian and Chinese girlfriends in the past.  The most recent marriage between friends of mine saw a white guy marry a Hong Kong Chinese woman.  Their best friends (and also two very good friends of mine) are a Sri Lankan man and his Malaysian Chinese wife.  Another good friend of mine (white) is married to a Samoan woman.  A Filipina I've known for years recently married a Norwegian man living here.  I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture.

Sure, there are still many people who wouldn't consider dating or marrying outside their own race, which has been the prevalent course of action for so many years.  However, it's heartening to me to see so many more people these days quite prepared to consider the possibility that they can find love outside those self-imposed borders.

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« Reply #294 on: June 29, 2016, 08:00:19 PM »
Once again you display a leap of illogicality that is utterly breathtaking.  Neither of the quotes refers to "destruction" of white people, nor to "replacing" the population.  What they are doing is expressing the hope that, at some time in the future, everyone in Australia will be so racially mixed that they will, in essence, all be the same ethnicity, and will have no need or excuse to harbour racist thoughts about other people who are simply a different colour.

Of course it may be pie in the sky, given the population of Australia, but New Zealand is certainly heading well down that track.  I'm white, but I've had Indian and Chinese girlfriends in the past.  The most recent marriage between friends of mine saw a white guy marry a Hong Kong Chinese woman.  Their best friends (and also two very good friends of mine) are a Sri Lankan man and his Malaysian Chinese wife.  Another good friend of mine (white) is married to a Samoan woman.  A Filipina I've known for years recently married a Norwegian man living here.  I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture.

Sure, there are still many people who wouldn't consider dating or marrying outside their own race, which has been the prevalent course of action for so many years.  However, it's heartening to me to see so many more people these days quite prepared to consider the possibility that they can find love outside those self-imposed borders.

When you combine the statements, with the govt-recorded immigration stats, there is no illogic to be found.

The URL: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/3412.0/

quote:

"At 30 June 2015, 28.2% of Australia's estimated resident population (ERP) (6.7 million people) was born overseas. "

28% of the population is more than enough to modify election results.  Stupid git!
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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #295 on: June 29, 2016, 08:14:40 PM »
You're assuming that 28% would vote the same way. I doubt that's the case.
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Offline JayH

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« Reply #296 on: June 29, 2016, 08:29:29 PM »
You're assuming that 28% would vote the same way. I doubt that's the case.

90% of that 28% will have assimilated quite well
7%+  will still be in transition
3%  - are in the category of wait and see.Of that 3%-- 3%  will be potential trouble makers!

Australians are generally proud of out history of multiculturalism and integration of different races and cultures . Is it perfect- no .

As an example of more recent migration- at the end of the Vietnamese war we had many Vietnamese come to Australia . This was not without difficulties in the early stages-- but  40 plus years later they have fitted in very well . Even the gangs running around with meat cleavers have been replaced by current migration of Sudanese  gangs -doing much the same !Progress !
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Slumba

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« Reply #297 on: June 29, 2016, 09:06:48 PM »
You're assuming that 28% would vote the same way. I doubt that's the case.

In the USA, 20% of Hispanics vote Republican - 80%, Democrat.  That is why California is almost entirely Democrat from local to regional to statewide offices.

In Brexit, you can spot the differences quite easily - only 30% of Muslims were Leave ; Hindus and the Chinese voted similarly. 

Like I said, "mass immigration is the State electing itself a new populace".
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« Reply #298 on: June 29, 2016, 09:23:17 PM »
Quote
In Brexit, you can spot the differences quite easily - only 30% of Muslims were Leave ; Hindus and the Chinese voted similarly. 


That could be because they are urban and well educated, and work in the global economy, rather than because of their ethnicity.
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« Reply #299 on: June 29, 2016, 09:27:29 PM »
As an example of more recent migration- at the end of the Vietnamese war we had many Vietnamese come to Australia . This was not without difficulties in the early stages-- but  40 plus years later they have fitted in very well . Even the gangs running around with meat cleavers have been replaced by current migration of Sudanese  gangs -doing much the same !Progress !


That was very much the experience here, too, in terms of Vietnamese gangs.  They still exist, but far less than in the past.  They've been replaced by Somalis here.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

 

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