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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 129880 times)

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Offline tfcrew

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #325 on: June 30, 2016, 09:20:42 AM »
My 'problem' is posters who think 'BREXIT' has anything to do with Islam....

 

Then why?
If not because of [out of control immigration] then why did UK vote out?
Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored.  -Aldous Huxley

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #326 on: June 30, 2016, 09:24:25 AM »
I HAVE re-read what you said ..... It was not clear what you meant ...

You meant TARIFF-free trade, sticking to the EU designated standards .... ''single-market''

Supporters of Briexit seem to think that the UK can cherry-pick ... we can't

My apologies for any misunderstanding


No need to apologize Moby, I probably could have been more clear which is why I edited the original.

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #327 on: June 30, 2016, 09:26:39 AM »
Then why?
If not because of [out of control immigration] then why did UK vote out?


From my understanding, the "immigration" problem was from fellow EU countries with less than stellar economies.  Naturally, many would flock to a bigger economy that had more jobs.


If that is indeed true, Merkel making it mandatory that they continue allowing the same countries access to jobs would be a deal breaker for any fast exit.

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #328 on: June 30, 2016, 09:28:15 AM »
Then why?
If not because of [out of control immigration] then why did UK vote out?

Sighs,

The Referendum was about 'regaining control'  - limiting EU migration

The UK could already make it's own laws regarding non EU nations.....  i.e limiting migration from Africa, Asia...


Would you read the National Enquirer to understand your govts. laws ?

As to why 'we' voted out .... my region of England, my home nation [ N.Ireland ] London, Gibraltar  and Scotland voted remain.... the vote was split 17/16

If you check - most fossils voted out - and they'll not live to see their folly

The crass stupidity of those voting out is beyond comprehension to me....

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #329 on: June 30, 2016, 09:29:14 AM »
My 'problem' is posters who think 'BREXIT' has anything to do with Islam....

But thanks for demonstrating the depth of your 'knowledge'

Independent, guardian, telegraph and more UK news publications all report Cameron asking EU if UK can have more control over immigration issues. I'm challenged on this phone when it comes to cut and paste but you can Google it. Islamic people are a big part of the latest waves of immigration.

I understand the EU thought they'd be on the winning side of the vote so they offered little. If they give UK too much, more countries would be asking for more and undermine their authority. Part of the problem was increasing their authority to the point most people won't tolerate it. Soon they may be out of a job.
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #330 on: June 30, 2016, 09:30:07 AM »

From my understanding, the "immigration" problem was from fellow EU countries with less than stellar economies.  Naturally, many would flock to a bigger economy that had more jobs.


If that is indeed true, Merkel making it mandatory that they continue allowing the same countries access to jobs would be a deal breaker for any fast exit.

Fellow EU countries that brought smarter, harder working employees than many lazy Brits with an entitlement attitude...
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #331 on: June 30, 2016, 09:33:26 AM »
Independent, guardian, telegraph and more UK news publications all report Cameron asking EU if UK can have more control over immigration issues. I'm challenged on this phone when it comes to cut and paste but you can Google it. Islamic people are a big part of the latest waves of immigration.

I understand the EU thought they'd be on the winning side of the vote so they offered little. If they give UK too much, more countries would be asking for more and undermine their authority. Part of the problem was increasing their authority to the point most people won't tolerate it. Soon they may be out of a job.

BillyB

Do TRY and read before proving you don't... 

Followers of Islam do not tend to be EU citizens - who were the only folk that the UK can't - currently 'limit'

Migrants from Syria and Libya.... cannot 'get in' as the UK has already an opt out on the regulation to 'share' the problem

Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #332 on: June 30, 2016, 09:52:37 AM »
..And they will get their wish.... with Scotland leaving to become independent ...I suggest you look up 'little englander'

If you are 'learning' about Britain from the likes of the Express / Mail - then your 'deep understanding' is now understood  :D

A little exercise to prove your 'knowledge'..

Please explain how any Brexit will halt immigration from nations who are 'Muslim' ?

Which EU nation is majority 'Muslim' - or even 10 percent ..?

You DO realise that the EU has no say on UK immigration policy from nations outside the EU  ?

 :deadhorse:

Wo...Wo....Wo...woah. I have never claimed any "deep knowledge or understanding" apparently, unlike you. I have only watched the news and repeated what I have heard. You are attempting to shoot the messenger and it's sources because you don't like the message or outcome of Brexit.

Perception is reality whether you like it or not. The perception of Islam in England did contribute to the outcome. I don't care nor do I have a dog in that fight on UK immigration and the EU. Your attempt at a redherring is noted

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #333 on: June 30, 2016, 09:57:16 AM »
I usually agree with Bill on most things. On Brexit, I certainly agree with Bill, as it directly supports most of the articles I have read concerning the origins and reasons for a "Leave" Brexit vote. The reason for Brexit being successful with the UK voters had nothing to do with economics, nor immigration from EU immigrants. Rather, it had everything to do with mass immigration of Muslims into the UK, and the corresponding surge in Islamic terrorism that has resulted from it. The majority of UK citizens have clearly had it up to here with all of the problems caused by being overrun by this huge new influx of Muslims from Middle Eastern Countries.

http://www.billoreilly.com/video#play   Go to the bottom and click on page 2. Then find the video entitled "Bill O'Reilly Reacts to the Brexit" on 6-24-16

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2016/06/28/bill-oreilly-open-borders-dont-work/

Europe is really in a Mell of a Hess with the pro-Muslim immigration policies supported by Merkel and Hollande. This is going to take many years for Europe to fix, if it can ever be fixed. The influx of Muslim immigrants clearly brings far more problems than positives with them into their newly adopted EU countries.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:02:04 AM by treadmilldude »

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #334 on: June 30, 2016, 10:02:27 AM »
BillyB

Do TRY and read before proving you don't... 

Followers of Islam do not tend to be EU citizens - who were the only folk that the UK can't - currently 'limit'

Migrants from Syria and Libya.... cannot 'get in' as the UK has already an opt out on the regulation to 'share' the problem


Moby, I think Billy and others are talking about Brussels forcing members to take on refugee quotas.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/european-commission-backs-visa-free-travel-for-turks-1462357287

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36202490

I wouldn't consider this situation as having control over immigration.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:07:19 AM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #335 on: June 30, 2016, 10:14:27 AM »

Brass,

1/ the referendum was not about left / right   :deadhorse:

2/ tell us about the 'rebound' of the GBP

3/ or the rebound of the FSTE 250

I've never posted or suggested that the referendum was about left /right.

GBD is recovering quite nicely. Up around 3 pence [edit: since the 24th) however, USD is very strong right now as well so that factors.

 The FTSE 100 index is up 144.27 points or 2.27%, the FTSE 250 is up 183.09 points or 1.14% and the FTSE 350, index is up 63.14 or 1.81% as of this post.

And yet one more doom and gloom op-ed predicting the financial apocalypse doesn't really impress me.

The fact of the matter is no matter how loud the whingers gonna whinge - This ( last week) is as bad as it's gonna get for the UK...There'll be no end of the world, no falling into the sun, no British Isles sinking into the ocean no matter how loud the left wing media bleats.  ;)

Brass

« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:22:12 AM by Brasscasing »
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #336 on: June 30, 2016, 10:41:19 AM »

Perception is reality whether you like it or not. The perception of Islam in England did contribute to the outcome. I don't care nor do I have a dog in that fight on UK immigration and the EU. Your attempt at a redherring is noted

I have a deep mistrust of messengers  ;D

If the perception resulted in a Brexit vote - which had ZERO influence on Immigration from the likes of Syria, Libya, Afganistan, Iraq - then it says even more about the dubious success of the Brexit campaign instilling fear of events already subject to UK national immigration law that is irrelevant to EU  migration

You must forgive me, as I have NOT THE FAINTEST CLUE as to your 'red herring' .. no 'games' ..I just don't get why you would say such a thing ..




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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #337 on: June 30, 2016, 10:48:50 AM »
I usually agree with Bill on most things. On Brexit, I certainly agree with Bill, as it directly supports most of the articles I have read concerning the origins and reasons for a "Leave" Brexit vote. The reason for Brexit being successful with the UK voters had nothing to do with economics, nor immigration from EU immigrants. Rather, it had everything to do with mass immigration of Muslims into the UK,

Thanks for confirming you also are in favour of Brexit based on 'bollox' criteria ..

I have explained for a 5 year old's level of comprehension that voting out would not change the level of immigration of followers of Islam due to the UK's pre-existing opt out and the FACT that such nations aren't in the EU

Now if you are one of those bright sparks that would try to suggest ''Turkey will join'' ..I can only suggest you note

1/ UK is not a member of Schengen - so any deal that the EU might do would not affect the UK

2/ Turkey's accession would be torpedoed [ vetoed ] by several EU members

:deadhorse:
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #338 on: June 30, 2016, 10:56:22 AM »
Moby, LiveFromUkraine just basically refuted your assertions that the UK does in fact have the ability to control immigration of Muslims from Muslim majority countries.

Here it is again:  ""Moby, I think Billy and others are talking about Brussels forcing members to take on refugee quotas.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/european-commission-backs-visa-free-travel-for-turks-1462357287

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36202490

I wouldn't consider this situation as having control over immigration. ""

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #339 on: June 30, 2016, 11:01:48 AM »
I've never posted or suggested that the referendum was about left /right.

Your words suggested otherwise .. please check the link below



http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20940.msg435175#msg435175


GBD is recovering quite nicely. Up around 3 pence [edit: since the 24th) however, USD is very strong right now as well so that factors.



I deal with Dollars, Euros and Roubles, Turkish Lira, Thai Bhat et al, regularly - so I know what I'm talking about, Brass..

I suggest you visit xe.com/ucc try the 1 month graph for any of the above currencies and repeat for us - with a straight face your 'claim'


Here's the Euro one..


I hope you don't make a living 'betting' on your assertions  ;D
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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #340 on: June 30, 2016, 11:47:38 AM »
Your words suggested otherwise .. please check the link below

No, they do not. In your heightened state of emotionalism you've completely misread just about every post you've responded to today. It's very entertaining. ;D


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20940.msg435175#msg435175


GBD is recovering quite nicely. Up around 3 pence [edit: since the 24th) however, USD is very strong right now as well so that factors.



I deal with Dollars, Euros and Roubles, Turkish Lira, Thai Bhat et al, regularly - so I know what I'm talking about, Brass..

I suggest you visit xe.com/ucc try the 1 month graph for any of the above currencies and repeat for us - with a straight face your 'claim'


Here's the Euro one..


I hope you don't make a living 'betting' on your assertions  ;D



Well that is impressive seeing as you're the guy who posted you'd invested on a Brexit Remain vote elsewhere, right? Congratulations on your savvy money skills. :ROFL:

Don't fool yourself, Moby. Read my first post in this thread prior to the vote.

Even with my relatively short stay in the UK I gauged the mood of the UK people better than you did. ;)

Brass

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #341 on: June 30, 2016, 12:13:12 PM »
Fellow EU countries that brought smarter, harder working employees than many lazy Brits with an entitlement attitude...

What are people like you but leeches always looking for the bigger better deal?

You feel no ties of kinship,  no common heritage?

 How did those Brits become lazy?

You just want to chuck them out on their head because they don't measure up to your standards?
Me gusta ir de compras con mi tarjeta verde...

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #342 on: June 30, 2016, 12:14:58 PM »
No, they do not. In your heightened state of emotionalism you've completely misread just about every post you've responded to today. It's very entertaining. ;D


In your instance of denial - I cannot help you  :deadhorse:

Earlier I misunderstood LfU and he modified his post .... just to put your mischief into perspective


Now let's deal with shares

The FTSE 250 index - little heard of - but includes many more British companies - rather than multinationals that list here


It was 15 percent down - and has recovered some - today - only because 'our' Canadian Bank of England chief has suggested he will look at cutting interest rates - such was the hangover / shock at the Brexit vote and it's implications for industry



I readily admit not realising the [ mainly ] older voter was so stupid
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #343 on: June 30, 2016, 12:28:21 PM »
What are people like you but leeches always looking for the bigger better deal?

If entrepreneurial spirit = leach to you - so be it ....I live abroad most of the time, but paid UK taxes on the fruits of my investments during my working life..

As I said .... you'd do better to ask questions - as your estimation of my citizenship, lifestyle, etc., has been far from accurate

 
You feel no ties of kinship,  no common heritage?

Great ...a question ... I was once fervently British ... in   part of the world ... were my people were planted to outnumber the indigenous people.... Now, I'm older and wiser and patriotism is indeed the last vestige of a fool ..

Britain - like N.America and Australasia has benefited from immigration - the irony being that in the latter cases you were the migrants and when I hear calls to cap it I don't miss the irony   


 How did those Brits become lazy?

The possibility to avoid working legally and claim benefits....there are jobs that E.Europeans will do that not just Brits avoid ...I've seen it in Cyprus, Ireland and Greece....outside the EU in N.America and Russia. The access to such social benefits had been severely restricted to new EU arrivals and Cameron had negotiated a brake on new EU members - at least 7 years working in the UK without a work permit..

You just want to chuck them out on their head because they don't measure up to your standards?

WHAT are you imbibing ? Throw who out ...? I'm in favour of freedom of movement of labour within the EU

« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 01:20:56 PM by msmobyone »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #344 on: June 30, 2016, 01:16:51 PM »
I have a deep mistrust of messengers  ;D

If the perception resulted in a Brexit vote - which had ZERO influence on Immigration from the likes of Syria, Libya, Afganistan, Iraq - then it says even more about the dubious success of the Brexit campaign instilling fear of events already subject to UK national immigration law that is irrelevant to EU  migration

You must forgive me, as I have NOT THE FAINTEST CLUE as to your 'red herring' .. no 'games' ..I just don't get why you would say such a thing ..

Simply, attack the message not the messenger.

The perception was of Islamic immigration as a whole. Losing British culture and worried that the EU was making Parliament irrelevant. Real or imagined, it is perception apparently to your average Brit and all for economic gain in the EU which apparently wasn't happening either.

Your redherring is you seemed to be accusatory toward me for remarks I never said et. al Syrian, Iraqi or Afghanistan immigration

Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #345 on: June 30, 2016, 01:27:26 PM »
Simply, attack the message not the messenger.


I see  - so you are a ''messenger'' that repeats nonsense  - proving you were as daft as any brexit voter - thinking stopping EU migration would cut out immigration from Turkey , Syria, etc.

It's just that I'm waiting for someone to tell me which EU nation has a more than 10, 9, 8, 7, perhaps even 6 percent population that are 'followers of Islam'..


Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #346 on: June 30, 2016, 02:02:08 PM »
BillyB

Do TRY and read before proving you don't... 

Followers of Islam do not tend to be EU citizens - who were the only folk that the UK can't - currently 'limit'

Migrants from Syria and Libya.... cannot 'get in' as the UK has already an opt out on the regulation to 'share' the problem

Cameron having to ask permission from the EU to allow UK to have more control over UKs immigration policies is enough for me to understand you don't have sufficient control over your own borders. You can repeat yourself a thousand times immigration is not an issue pertaining to Brexit. Won't change my mind.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #347 on: June 30, 2016, 02:06:04 PM »


I see  - so you are a ''messenger'' that repeats nonsense  - proving you were as daft as any brexit voter - thinking stopping EU migration would cut out immigration from Turkey , Syria, etc.

Well there you go again attacking me rather than what I said. You really do not know the difference, do you?
I can see that it's nonsense to you because it's opposing to what you state and believe. However, you offer nothing to oppose it rather than "you are daft for repeating nonsense".  You can't recognize it or help yourself.

Quote
It's just that I'm waiting for someone to tell me which EU nation has a more than 10, 9, 8, 7, perhaps even 6 percent population that are 'followers of Islam'..

Seriously, I have no interest in answering your question. But, at Germany's current rate of immigration they will have well more than that before years end. France I understand has curbed theirs. Immigration suggestions were being issued from from Brussels. Seriously, what does it matter. Do you refute that there is mass immigration of Muslims into Europe?

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #348 on: June 30, 2016, 02:10:27 PM »

In your instance of denial - I cannot help you  :deadhorse:

Earlier I misunderstood LfU and he modified his post .... just to put your mischief into perspective


Now let's deal with shares

The FTSE 250 index - little heard of - but includes many more British companies - rather than multinationals that list here


It was 15 percent down - and has recovered some - today - only because 'our' Canadian Bank of England chief has suggested he will look at cutting interest rates - such was the hangover / shock at the Brexit vote and it's implications for industry



I readily admit not realising the [ mainly ] older voter was so stupid

And all three FTSE indexes will continue to rebound as will Sterling. Just don't expect GBD to rise to the spike the day before the referendum as it was purposely driven up.

It's the Euro that will remain depressed. You were deriding the Express article earlier however several papers are also reporting similar versions of the same story...

Brexit contagion: UK vote raises fears of a tsunami of EU membership referendums

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/brexit-contagion-uk-vote-raises-fears-of-a-tsunami-of-eu-members/

Factor in the Pew survey linked up thread and the Euro might make good table coasters, bookmark or conversation piece in a year or two. ;D

You calling the majority of the UK voters stupid says more about you than you're saying about them. A great many of the those older people you call stupid took part in the original referendum that supported the UK remaining in the EEC (forerunner to the EU) in the first place. Were they stupid then?  ... Or has living with the EU for forty some odd years given them some understanding of why they voted Exit this time?

Brass

« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 02:26:14 PM by Brasscasing »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #349 on: June 30, 2016, 04:12:44 PM »
I usually agree with Bill on most things. On Brexit, I certainly agree with Bill, as it directly supports most of the articles I have read concerning the origins and reasons for a "Leave" Brexit vote. The reason for Brexit being successful with the UK voters had nothing to do with economics, nor immigration from EU immigrants. Rather, it had everything to do with mass immigration of Muslims into the UK, and the corresponding surge in Islamic terrorism that has resulted from it. The majority of UK citizens have clearly had it up to here with all of the problems caused by being overrun by this huge new influx of Muslims from Middle Eastern Countries.

http://www.billoreilly.com/video#play   Go to the bottom and click on page 2. Then find the video entitled "Bill O'Reilly Reacts to the Brexit" on 6-24-16

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2016/06/28/bill-oreilly-open-borders-dont-work/

Europe is really in a Mell of a Hess with the pro-Muslim immigration policies supported by Merkel and Hollande. This is going to take many years for Europe to fix, if it can ever be fixed. The influx of Muslim immigrants clearly brings far more problems than positives with them into their newly adopted EU countries.


No, I disagree with this.  Muslims are not leaving other EU countries to settle in the UK.  It is East Europeans, mostly Catholic Poles and Orthodox Romanians, who have moved in great numbers to the UK.  They are labourers, and undercut British labourers.  It is akin to Mexicans taking construction jobs from American workers. 


Poles who live in the UK can receive benefits for their children left behind in Poland.  So, Dad moves to the UK to work, is paying taxes, and his kids back in Gdansk with his wife receive childcare benefits, because Dad is paying taxes in the UK.  That was one irritant.  The other is families moving and the pressure that puts on building sufficient schools and hospitals for them.


UKIP used the mass migration of last year and this summer in their Brexit campaign, and it probably played a role.  But most of those migrants won't have EU citizenship for about a decade, if ever.  So, they would not have the right as EU citizens to move to the UK in any event.  Furthermore, if they are living in Sweden, or Austria, or Germany, they aren't going to move to the UK.  Their EU migration issue is with the less developed economies of Eastern Europe.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

 

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