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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 101942 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #350 on: June 30, 2016, 04:19:13 PM »
Moby, LiveFromUkraine just basically refuted your assertions that the UK does in fact have the ability to control immigration of Muslims from Muslim majority countries.

Here it is again:  ""Moby, I think Billy and others are talking about Brussels forcing members to take on refugee quotas.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/european-commission-backs-visa-free-travel-for-turks-1462357287

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36202490

I wouldn't consider this situation as having control over immigration. ""


The U.K. (and Ireland and Denmark) are not subject to the EU's asylum system.  This was an issue for Eastern Europe, not the U.K.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #351 on: June 30, 2016, 05:17:53 PM »

It is East Europeans, mostly Catholic Poles and Orthodox Romanians, who have moved in great numbers to the UK.


The Poles have been working in the UK for decades. 


Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #352 on: June 30, 2016, 05:30:18 PM »

The U.K. (and Ireland and Denmark) are not subject to the EU's asylum system.  This was an issue for Eastern Europe, not the U.K.


You're right Bo.  I'm embarrassed to say I missed that part of the article I posted.  I did read that Cameron was worried that the UK would face more pressure to take in more if they stayed.


I do think the idea of fining countries to push more refugees may add to more countries leaving.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 05:33:34 PM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #353 on: June 30, 2016, 06:16:49 PM »
So what, people who voted for Brexit can't see 5-8 years into the future when naturalized Muslims will be demanding to be let into Britain?  This is getting silly.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #354 on: June 30, 2016, 06:41:09 PM »
Currently, there are approximately 4.3 million Muslims in Germany, 4.7 million in France, 2.3 million in Italy, and 1 million in the Netherlands.    They haven't stampeded their way to the UK, so why would there be a sudden change?
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Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #355 on: June 30, 2016, 06:50:43 PM »
Currently, there are approximately 4.3 million Muslims in Germany, 4.7 million in France, 2.3 million in Italy, and 1 million in the Netherlands.    They haven't stampeded their way to the UK, so why would there be a sudden change?


The Muslims are waiting to gain more numbers and then will launch a full frontal attack.   :P 

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #356 on: June 30, 2016, 07:00:49 PM »
The Muslims are waiting to gain more numbers and then will launch a full frontal attack.  :P
If they hired Bulgarian wrapper artist Christo Vladimirov Javacheff to do across the Channel what he did on our Lake Iseo a couple of weeks ago, it would just be a walk-over ;D.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 07:07:23 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #357 on: June 30, 2016, 07:07:42 PM »
If they hired Bulgarian wrapper artist Christo Vladimirov Javacheff to do across the Channel what he did on our Lake Iseo a couple of weeks ago, it would just be a walk-over ;D .


Christo's floating piers (3.5 Km long)




That is pretty neat Sandro. 

Here is a youtube video I found of it.




Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #358 on: June 30, 2016, 07:23:34 PM »
That is pretty neat Sandro. 
And nobody's drowned - yet :D.
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #359 on: July 01, 2016, 12:22:04 AM »
Cameron having to ask permission from the EU to allow UK to have more control over UKs immigration policies is enough for me to understand you don't have sufficient control over your own borders. You can repeat yourself a thousand times immigration is not an issue pertaining to Brexit. Won't change my mind.

BillyB, your inattentiveness in reading is becoming a serious issue to comprehension...

I never claimed that immigration wasn't the key issue ....


I AM stating the voting 'BREXIT' wouldn't stop non EU migrants - as we already control migration from there...
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Offline tfcrew

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #360 on: July 01, 2016, 08:49:56 AM »


I never claimed that immigration wasn't the key issue ....

 

Replyby:  msmobyone  #314 on: Yesterday at 08:11:59 AM My 'problem' is posters who think 'BREXIT' has anything to do with Islam....


Let's go in circles ....
Massive immigration by Muslims equaled problems for British citizens :popcorn:
 


Offline BC

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #361 on: July 01, 2016, 09:36:23 AM »
Replyby:  msmobyone  #314 on: Yesterday at 08:11:59 AM My 'problem' is posters who think 'BREXIT' has anything to do with Islam....


Let's go in circles ....
Massive immigration by Muslims equaled problems for British citizens :popcorn:

More like a bunch of folk that want to blame their own problems on someone else.  Does the title of 'British citizen' exclude Muslims?

Offline tfcrew

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #362 on: July 01, 2016, 09:51:02 AM »
  Does the title of 'British citizen' exclude Muslims?

Because you just show up in a country automatically makes you a citizen of this country?

Offline BC

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #363 on: July 01, 2016, 10:15:35 AM »
Because you just show up in a country automatically makes you a citizen of this country?

Of course not silly.. Does your passport show your religion?

Offline tfcrew

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #364 on: July 01, 2016, 10:19:58 AM »
Changed the subject.
It was about citizenship not passports.

Offline Slumba

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #365 on: July 01, 2016, 10:33:22 AM »
More like a bunch of folk that want to blame their own problems on someone else.  Does the title of 'British citizen' exclude Muslims?

Actually under the law in the respective countries it does. 

Muslims who are faithful to Islam, cannot be considered loyal British subjects, nor American citizens.  They are by definition traitors and subversives, since their faith commands that the current political system be replaced with Sharia and a theocracy.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #366 on: July 01, 2016, 11:27:28 AM »
BillyB, your inattentiveness in reading is becoming a serious issue to comprehension...

I never claimed that immigration wasn't the key issue ....


I AM stating the voting 'BREXIT' wouldn't stop non EU migrants - as we already control migration from there...

I'm starting to believe it is you that is uneducated and a sore loser. Cameron asked EU for more control over UK immigration. You can believe it won't stop EU migrants all you want. For the rest of us and Cameron more control means more control to do things any way UK wants. How difficult is that to understand? If you and EU understood that and reacted appropriately you may still be in the EU. Too little too late. 
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #367 on: July 01, 2016, 12:01:40 PM »
Currently, there are approximately 4.3 million Muslims in Germany, 4.7 million in France, 2.3 million in Italy, and 1 million in the Netherlands.    They haven't stampeded their way to the UK, so why would there be a sudden change?

The Muslims stay out of the UK because they have been informed about the insipid food and the requirement to queue.  LOL

Serious question - Is the financial aid and other support  given to refugees determined by individual countries?  If not an EU edict, does the support vary among the different EU nations, i. e. does Germany spend more money per individual refugee than UK.   BTW, who pays for taking care of the newly arriving refugees while in Greece? 

Offline BC

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #368 on: July 01, 2016, 12:49:21 PM »
Actually under the law in the respective countries it does. 

Muslims who are faithful to Islam, cannot be considered loyal British subjects, nor American citizens.  They are by definition traitors and subversives, since their faith commands that the current political system be replaced with Sharia and a theocracy.

What a load of BS.  Not even worth compiling a more elaborate response.

Offline Изумруд

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #369 on: July 01, 2016, 02:36:45 PM »

Excellent analysis again form Professor of Law, Michael Dougan, on the UK's position post referendum.  Boe, you may find this interesting as a lawyer:


Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #370 on: July 01, 2016, 06:53:30 PM »
Excellent analysis again form Professor of Law, Michael Dougan, on the UK's position post referendum.  Boe, you may find this interesting as a lawyer:



Thank you. That was interesting, as was the earlier link, though by the time I had watched it all, it was too late to comment.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #371 on: July 01, 2016, 08:46:08 PM »
Excellent analysis again form Professor of Law, Michael Dougan, on the UK's position post referendum.  Boe, you may find this interesting as a lawyer:



Good thing that guy doesn't have the final say. He'd label the referendum constitutionally illegal and throw everybody's vote out to get the results he wants. He is right on some things UK has veto power and a country like Turkey can't get in the EU without Uk permission but Michael doesn't seem to understand the EU doesn't revolve around the UK world. UK is part of the EU world and must compromise on a regular basis. Vetoing everything will get UK on the shit list. Let's say most EU members approach UK and say getting Turkey into the EU is very important to them and what do you want. For UK to get some things they want they've got to do things they don't want. Brexit voters understand that.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #372 on: July 01, 2016, 10:59:00 PM »
I AM stating the voting 'BREXIT' wouldn't stop non EU migrants - as we already control migration from there...

msmobyone, in article below Cameron tell EU leaders in his final Brussels summit they must offer UK more control over immigration and freedom of movement was at the heart of UK citizens rejecting the EU. Even Cameron agrees UK doesn't have total control over immigration.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/28/cameron-eu-leaders-uk-control-immigration
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Offline Изумруд

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #373 on: July 02, 2016, 05:41:04 AM »
Good thing that guy doesn't have the final say. He'd label the referendum constitutionally illegal and throw everybody's vote out to get the results he wants. He is right on some things UK has veto power and a country like Turkey can't get in the EU without Uk permission but Michael doesn't seem to understand the EU doesn't revolve around the UK world. UK is part of the EU world and must compromise on a regular basis. Vetoing everything will get UK on the shit list. Let's say most EU members approach UK and say getting Turkey into the EU is very important to them and what do you want. For UK to get some things they want they've got to do things they don't want. Brexit voters understand that.

Michael Dougan:  "He has provided written evidence to various Parliamentary enquiries; appeared as an expert witness before the House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee and the House of Lords European Union Committee; and acted as an external advisor to Government departments on important developments - including discussions about the enactment of the European Union Act 2011 as well as the ongoing Review of the Balance of Competences Between the UK and the EU".

http://www.liverpool.ac.uk/law/staff/michael-dougan/


So I would say he has a much better understanding of how things work there than you or I Biily, yes?

Why would he label it constitutionally illegal? A referendum isn't legal until ratified by parliament.   However, the people have voted and it would be political suicide to go down this route; it would have serious implications for democracy in the UK, which is why he pointed out that the whole democratic landscape of the last 40 years in the UK has been turned upside down by: "lies on an industrial scale".   

It's now a week since the referendum and Farage and ID Smith have been caught out lying about their 350m a week promise to the NHS; of course, this was a promise that they could never keep.  Btw, you must have missed his comment on Farage when he thought Remain were going to win; so it works BOTH ways.  The people have voted out so now it's up to those politicians who so vehemently pursued Leave, to formulate a strategy that should already have been in place for such an eventuality.  That it is quite evidently not, is a serious indictment against all those involved.  Subsequently, we have a government [and its rival party] in total chaos and all of them at this present time reluctant to trigger Article 50.

 Maybe this clip will be more to your liking:






« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 08:07:09 AM by Изумруд »

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #374 on: July 02, 2016, 09:29:45 AM »
Michael Dougan:  "He has provided written evidence to various Parliamentary enquiries; appeared as an expert witness before the House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee and the House of Lords European Union Committee; and acted as an external advisor to Government departments on important developments - including discussions about the enactment of the European Union Act 2011 as well as the ongoing Review of the Balance of Competences Between the UK and the EU".

http://www.liverpool.ac.uk/law/staff/michael-dougan/


So I would say he has a much better understanding of how things work there than you or I Biily, yes?


There are a lot of "experts" out there but they don't control my votes. Like I mention up thread, a lot of "expert" economists say UK leaving EU is a bad thing but none of them say EU is a good thing for America to join. Also I pointed out Greenland leaving EU in the 80's and they haven't come pounding on EU's door to get back in. Whether UK does better alone than answer to masters in Brussels depends on the UK. If UK wants to be lazy like Greece, it's best they stay in the EU so that others can pull it's weight.

Why would he label it constitutionally illegal?


Because he's an constitutional attorney with an interest of having UK stay in the EU. If he preferred Brexit, you wouldn't be watching that video. How many constitutional attorneys that prefer Brexit are making videos saying the referendum was illegal? None.

We got all kinds of "expert" attorneys in America that fight over what our Constitution says all the time. It will never end because those "experts", who know it all, can't agree what the law says.

It's now a week since the referendum and Farage and ID Smith have been caught out lying about their 350m a week promise to the NHS; of course, this was a promise that they could never keep.


Don't like liars? You're lucky you don't have to deal with Hillary Clinton. I looked up that number and 350 million pounds is close to what UK has to send to the EU but the EU gives them a rebate so the UK actually sends EU closer to 250 million pounds a week. Politicians failed to mention the rebate. Politicians on the other side of the fence called them liars but failed to say they are still paying big time to the EU. In 32 years UK never got back more than it paid in. Other countries did including France and Germany. The bureaucracy in Brussels must be funded too. One reason UK gets punished more than other EU nations is because they have a better performing economy. Being a member of the EU, UK will be a victim of their own success. Here are the links I read.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week

http://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11184605/Explainer-Why-must-Britain-pay-1.7bn-to-the-European-Union-and-can-we-stop-it-happening.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2052433/Chart-How-does-Britain-pay-EU-does-back.html

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/economic/how-much-do-we-give-the-eu-and-how-much-do-we-get-back/9099.article
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