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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 25015 times)

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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #425 on: March 29, 2017, 02:02:14 AM »
Chelskiboy !

I suspect most people polled were English and if you are happy to possibly see the break up of the UK - as 'my' folks' and the Scots clearly did not vote suicide - you would get your wish ...

Oh hang on .... the Scottish Parliament voted for another referendum on LEAVING the UK, yesterday - and the English PM wants to dictate when they can have it  :deadhorse:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39422747

In the meantime, your attempted diversion failed to note the danger to jobs that brings in big spenders - like banks  :wallbash:


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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #426 on: March 30, 2017, 06:09:39 AM »
Whilst I take exception to to a 29/28 split on in / out being a 'clear mandate' to leaving the EU - I accept the 'leave won

My objection has been that the referendum included no plans for how we would leave and what legislation  / terms with the EU would remain untouched

Today the 'Great Repeal Bill' - a white paper - a proposal on how the UK can change laws / regulations has been announced

For me, a massive GOOD thing is that the govt has made it clear that ANY EU law taking presidency over UK law will remain until - at least - the last lay of being a member.

This proposal makes it clear - in the matter of immigration of EU citizens - over which the UK no say - unless they were a threat to National Security, Public health or Hygiene.  (pretty major get-outs ) that they can continue to arrive as per EU Directives.

The proposal simply allows for Parliament to create new laws - for example laws concerning EU immigrants - which must be agreed in Parliament

As such matters must be agreed with the EU - as how we treat EU citizens will likely be reciprocated - I just wonder which will come first ... Future UK legislation or agreement with the EU ?

As I predicted : A vote to leave will ensure a JUMP in EU immigration - as the UK cannot stop folks coming. The current law is that staying - legally - within an EU state 5 years - means permanent residency - so when will the 'cut off " begin?

The UK simply doesn't know how many EU citizens are here or when they came - so this will be 'fun' ..


http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-great-repeal-bill-white-paper/legislating-for-the-united-kingdoms-withdrawal-from-the-european-union














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Offline Boethius

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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #428 on: April 05, 2017, 01:18:31 AM »
Good article Boethius

UK Academia are already despairing of the VISA policies that might as well say. '' please study elsewhere'' :(

In the meantime ..

Those of us with open minds will remember I have warned that immigration would note come down with a Brexit vote - or even following 'Brexit' ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39178288

Brexit: Ending free movement may not cut migration, says Lords report

In the meantime ... immigration is UP .. as the Brexit vote has got folks trying to get IN - before any 'drawbridge' might be raised ....

These things were labelled as 'project fear' - but continue to be proven correct ... 

Then we have the 'jobs front'..

The City firms warned of potential job losses..

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/04/uk-jobs-merkel-juncker-euro-clearing-eu-manfred-weber-brexit

Up to 100,000 UK jobs at risk as Merkel and Juncker ally warns on euro clearing


This was SO b.obvious - esp. if the un-elected 'brextremist' UK govt went for a 'hard brexit' ...

Those jobs going would mean a lot more going in the sectors that rely on those disposable incomes..



Now, is the time for other nations to profit from UK Ltd's lemming-like jumping off a cliff ((






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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #429 on: July 24, 2017, 03:17:59 AM »
I suppose you voted for Brexit and and haven't woken up, yet .. The GBP isn't Great, any more..

True, it was around £1.60 to the dollar before Brexit but even this was seen as a bit on the weak side. I remember about a decade ago when you could get £2 to the dollar :D I went to the US twice around that time and got amazing value for money. Stayed in places that would otherwise be expensive and hired a convertible to drive around in. Fun time in LA :) What I would do if we got back to that level of exchange rate again, would definitely be worth investing abroad.

Truth is that the Pound has got weaker as Ukraine currency has got worth less due to inflation. If the pound kept its strength I would still be getting much the same bargain of a deal as before the Brexit vote when I was there in March last year in Ukraine. I'm thinking after all the negotiations on trade deal have been hammered out and/or Brexit has gone through the Pound will start to rise again.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #430 on: July 24, 2017, 03:39:41 AM »
I'm thinking after all the negotiations on trade deal have been hammered out and/or Brexit has gone through the Pound will start to rise again.

No, you're not thinking ... on what basis will the GBP get stronger ?  Project Fear  - the argument of 'leave' is becoming fact :(
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #431 on: July 24, 2017, 01:02:44 PM »
No, you're not thinking ... on what basis will the GBP get stronger ?  Project Fear  - the argument of 'leave' is becoming fact :(

Moby its down to the uncertainty of the deal that we will end up with - market people don't like uncertainty they want to know on what basis we are trading. When we know the new trading arrangement the uncertainty will go. If the market people don't have a good opinion of the trading deal then there may not be much change.

Longer term though it all comes down to affect on economy. If there is little negative affect then it will go up. If there is an obvious positive affect it will go up a lot - say if we make a trade deal with US and/or positive economic results start to come forward.

End of the day no one can really tell what is going to happen conclusively. I think better to give the idea of branching out trade deals Internationally rather than being restricted to a free trade deal with EU as worth a go. Why scamper back to the status quo of a EU free trade deal without giving the idea of international trade deals a shot. We can always have a go at International trade deals first and if it doesn't work out head to  a free trade deal with EU later. We are a big market for the EU so they can't afford to turn their back on us at any time. 


Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #432 on: July 24, 2017, 06:33:37 PM »
True, it was around £1.60 to the dollar before Brexit but even this was seen as a bit on the weak side. I remember about a decade ago when you could get £2 to the dollar :D I went to the US twice around that time and got amazing value for money. Stayed in places that would otherwise be expensive and hired a convertible to drive around in. Fun time in LA :) What I would do if we got back to that level of exchange rate again, would definitely be worth investing abroad.

That's rubbish - it was the other way around!  :cluebat:

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #433 on: July 25, 2017, 02:28:52 AM »
That's rubbish - it was the other way around!  :cluebat:

Yep you're right I meant $1.60 to the pound and $2 to the pound.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #434 on: July 25, 2017, 04:43:42 AM »
Moby its down to the uncertainty of the deal that we will end up with

No,...and that you would fall for THAT is not surprising !

The fall in the GBP started the moment polls suggested a closer vote - Feb 2016  - the GBP rocketed up when the exit polls predicted a win for remain and fell overnight-  on June 24th -  when it was clear the Lemmings voted to jump off the cliff  into the unknown

Subsequently, all the predictions of the stupidity of voting leave are coming true ...

Like much in your life, you seem immune to reality  - but not to worry - you are clearly not alone in this daftness

« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 02:31:34 PM by msmob »
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #435 on: July 25, 2017, 08:48:16 AM »
No,...and that you would far for THAt is not surprising !

The fall in the GBP started the moment polls suggested a closer vote - Feb 2016  - the GBP rocketed up when the exit polls predicted a win for remain and fell overnight back down on June 24th when it was clear the Lemmings voted to jump off the cliff  into the unknown

Subsequently, all the predictions of the stupidity of voting leave are coming true ...

Liem much in your life, you seem immune to reality  - but not to worry - you are clearly not alone in this daftness

Yes you are correct in how the specifics of how the Pound went up & down Moby, I was just giving the briefest overview not wishing to bore anyone with the moment by moment movements.

Whether you are Leave or Remain often comes down to where each person's situation in society. If you own a business that is connected with EU trade your more likely to be Remain, if its not then more likely Leave. If you rent out houses to East Europeans then your more likely Remain. If you rent or are trying to find a property either first time buy or bigger property you could be more Leave. If you want protection for your job or need a job from the hordes of ambitiously hungry east Europeans then you are more likely to vote Leave. Take that video JayH linked to, 'web of lies' when faced with loads of immigrants like that who are ridiculously determined to compete like hell against everyone else do you think local population want to have to endure that, no they just want to work a job at in a reasonable manner to afford their day to day lifestyle. Its how it always used to be. I mean I'm not work shy, but few of the UK population want to be on the go all the time.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #436 on: July 25, 2017, 02:35:10 PM »

 If you own a business that is connected with EU trade your more likely to be Remain,

No.... JCB's owner's ( they make heavy plant earth movers ) asked their workers to vote leave - they SOUGHT a weaker GBP ...



Really, like your quest for a FSU W - you are naive to the fact you've been played
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #437 on: July 26, 2017, 07:46:56 AM »
No.... JCB's owner's ( they make heavy plant earth movers ) asked their workers to vote leave - they SOUGHT a weaker GBP ...



Really, like your quest for a FSU W - you are naive to the fact you've been played

Most of us in the Leave camp knew the rich/Tories had their own agenda that is not in our interest, i.e tearing up employment legislation, where laws are made, who's in control - Brussels elite or UK elite, etc. None of this motivated the general population to vote Leave, the general population had their own concerns namely immigration from EU (Eastern Europe) and its effect on their lives i.e more demand on housing, public services, hospitals, schools and of course more stiffer competition for jobs. Added to that problems of EU blunders/mismanagement such as with Greece & the Euro and the debt of Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. Then the Asylum crises from Syria being handled in a dreadfully slow and awkward manner. Most UK citizens had decided they had, had enough of the EU and all of these problems it brought.

For sure the EU brought some decent laws in but even some of these have been rendered useless in recent years, employment legislation has been got around by zero hours contracts and the EU did nothing to remedy this problem. Most of us that voted Leave I believe know that there will be a parting of ways from the Tories in the future as we will not be in support of them tearing down the little rights of workers that have not been rendered useless by zero-hours contracts. 

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #438 on: July 26, 2017, 12:02:01 PM »
Most of us in the Leave camp knew the rich/Tories had their own agenda that is not in our interest, i.e tearing up employment legislation, where laws are made, who's in control - Brussels elite or UK elite, etc. None of this motivated the general population to vote Leave, the general population had their own concerns namely immigration from EU (Eastern Europe) and its effect on their lives i.e more demand on housing, public services, hospitals, schools and of course more stiffer competition for jobs. Added to that problems of EU blunders/mismanagement such as with Greece & the Euro and the debt of Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. Then the Asylum crises from Syria being handled in a dreadfully slow and awkward manner. Most UK citizens had decided they had, had enough of the EU and all of these problems it brought.

Once again you just proved you are one of those people who voted leave on clueless motives

1/ How any Syrians did the UK promise to take - and by 2020 ? 2, 000.. and only those from refugee camps on the borders of nations to Syria...

FACT: the UK and Ireland had not signed up to the EU Directive to share the load in the event of any refugee crisis - no commitment to take any refugees ...  :deadhorse:

2/ As for the Euro experiment - I was one of those who was in favour of the UK joining ...Right now, yet again - the Eurozone is out-performing the UK in growth and the Euro is much stronger ...

So, there's two of your 'theories' busted ...


For sure the EU brought some decent laws in but even some of these have been rendered useless in recent years, employment legislation has been got around by zero hours contracts and the EU did nothing to remedy this problem. Most of us that voted Leave I believe know that there will be a parting of ways from the Tories in the future as we will not be in support of them tearing down the little rights of workers that have not been rendered useless by zero-hours contracts.

Once more you prove your ignorance .. the UK had opts re EU employment laws...


Well, Trench - when ARE you going to post something you DO know about ? ....

Far more Tertiary-level  educated folk voted to remain - you figure that out ...
 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 12:03:42 PM by msmob »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #439 on: July 27, 2017, 01:08:47 AM »
Wasn't this thread supposed to be 'introductions and ice breaker'?

When did it turn political?? Oh I'm sorry, that is typical here!!!!  Is there a moderator in the house???
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #440 on: September 16, 2018, 07:53:47 AM »
Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, is calling for a second Brexit referendum. He must want a best 2 of 3 referendums on exiting the EU. Maybe the election for mayor of London should be best 2 of 3?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45537784

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #441 on: September 16, 2018, 11:37:15 AM »
Wasn't this thread supposed to be 'introductions and ice breaker'? When did it turn political?? Oh I'm sorry, that is typical here!!!!  Is there a moderator in the house???
Maybe it was once, now it's in "Odds and Ends" ;).

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #442 on: September 16, 2018, 01:25:54 PM »
For those seemingly non-informed

AT LAST folks now realise that leave sold a pack of lies re 'cost savings' and the polls now show a significant REMAIN

'We' voted to leave - not HOW we'll leave and I've already posted about the People's Vote campaign

Dave if you want to get your finger on the pulse - better to ask questions and you'll get two or more very different responses from Brits ...

Those that think leaving that won't effect them - or will be 'better' tend to be those drawing salaries - not those who run the biz....  GO FIGURE

London significantly voted REMAIN and can now feel the VERY real threat of well-paid job losses in financial services



« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 02:23:44 PM by msmob »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #443 on: September 16, 2018, 01:35:37 PM »

AT LAST folks now realise that leave sold a pack of lies re 'cost savings' ad the polls now show a significant REMAIN


Every single election I've witnessed, both sides lied. It's repugnant but it's reality.


'We' voted to leave - not HOW we'll leave


The how is up to the politicians. That's their job.


 and I've already posted about the People's Vote campaign


Perhaps the UK should be more like Switzerland which holds votes by the people for major decisions that affect the country or region. However that's not the way the UK works or the way this referendum worked so you'll have to live by the decision of the referendum.


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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #444 on: September 16, 2018, 02:35:05 PM »


Every single election I've witnessed, both sides lied. It's repugnant but it's reality.


Er DUH - in THIS case we have the govt promising to honour the 'leave' vote stating that Brexit uncertainty has resulted in a tax shortfall that was was predicted by 'project fear'   FACT..


Here we have Dave - once more proving he hasn't got a scoobie do ...


The how is up to the politicians. That's their job.

NO.... the Politicians work for us and the govt will fall if it tries to take us out in a 'hard Brexit ' ...

You really need to understand how the DUP ar king-makers and whilst they seek a Brexit - they will NOT accept a hard Brexit as they represent 30 percent of Ulster voters and will not vote themselves into obscurity ....


Perhaps the UK should be more like Switzerland which holds votes by the people for major decisions that affect the country or region. However that's not the way the UK works or the way this referendum worked so you'll have to live by the decision of the referendum.

Just like your ""the BBC is state run" 'assertion'  - you really must read up - before posting so clearly ignorant on matters UK

CLUE:  the referendum was not HOW we would leave ...Cameron thought he was appeasing and there'd be a remain win ...

He didn't bargain for WELL dodgy funding and the media owners backing 'leave' and posting headlines that were very laughable to anyone with  a brain and relying on trading with our biggest trading partners AND the Irish 'border issues' that  are a square that cannot be made a circle



« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 05:16:00 PM by msmob »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #445 on: September 16, 2018, 03:47:09 PM »

Er DUH - in THIS case we have the govt promising to honour the 'leave' vote stating that Brexit uncertainty has resulted in a tax shortfall that was was predicted by 'project fear'   FACT..


And yet you provide no data to back up your fact.

Here we have Dave - once more proving he hasn't got a scoobie do ...

You complain about how badly you're treated on RUA and yet here you insult anyone who disagrees with your opinions.

NO.... the Politicians work for us and the govt will fall if it tries to take us out in a 'hard Brexit ' ...

Few people really believe politicians work for the people. The politicians don't, they only say that during elections to get votes.


You really need to understand how the DUP ar king-makers and whilst they seek a Brexit - they will NOT accept a hard Brexit as they represent 30 percent of Ulster voters and will not vote themselves into obscurity ....

The DUP are going to stop a hard Brexit because they represent a few Ulster voters? Don't think so.

Just like your ""the BBC is state run" 'assertion'  - you really must read up - before posting so clearly ignorant on matters UK

More insults? Is that all you know how to post?

CLUE:  the referendum was not HOW we would leave ...Cameron thought he was appeasing and there'd be a remain win ...

Of course Cameron thought Remain would win. He was wrong for saying he'd hold a referendum on it. How could a referendum be held on how the UK would leave? There are many different variations on leaving even among those who favor leaving.

He didn't bargain for WELL dodgy funding and the media owners backing 'leave' and posting headlines that very laughable to anyone with  a brain and relying on trading with our biggest trading partners AND the Irish 'border issues' that  are a square that connect be made a circle

Again no data on your dodgy funding opinion. Media owners in the UK have always expressed their opinions. As for Irish border issues give NI back to the Republic.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #446 on: September 16, 2018, 05:28:47 PM »
And yet you provide no data to back up your fact.

Don't be a SILLY Billy..

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/23/brexit-will-blow-59bn-hole-in-public-finances-admits-hammond

"The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) announced that there would be a  over the next five years, with £59bn of that as a direct result of Brexit. Other factors included weaker-than-expected tax revenues, and policy changes, including Hammond’s decision to spend more on infrastructure.

George Osborne was expecting to achieve a surplus of £11bn on the public finances by 2020-21; instead, the OBR is now forecasting a £21bn deficit – and public debt is expected to peak at more than 90% of GDP."

The UK was THE fastest recovering ( after 2007-8) western recovery and the former guy who ran the natiion's affairs forecasts had to be revised HEAVILY to the negative ...that's DOWNWARDS..




Hammond WAS the new govt Chancellor of the Exchequer ...After Cameron and Osborne resigned after the 'leave vote' 

You complain about how badly you're treated on RUA

Once more incorrect - I find the need to edit 'my' signature, 'my' profile photo - nicked from here - and my posts proving certain Kremlin sycophants bias, HILARIOUS...

On HERE - the very posters who keep posting daft - use this very Soviet editing as some sort of 'validation' - rather than just saying - "DUH - I didn't know that, thanks"
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 05:30:54 PM by msmob »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #447 on: September 16, 2018, 06:03:36 PM »
Don't be a SILLY Billy..

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/23/brexit-will-blow-59bn-hole-in-public-finances-admits-hammond

"The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) announced that there would be a  over the next five years, with £59bn of that as a direct result of Brexit. Other factors included weaker-than-expected tax revenues, and policy changes, including Hammond’s decision to spend more on infrastructure.

George Osborne was expecting to achieve a surplus of £11bn on the public finances by 2020-21; instead, the OBR is now forecasting a £21bn deficit – and public debt is expected to peak at more than 90% of GDP."

The UK was THE fastest recovering ( after 2007-8) western recovery and the former guy who ran the natiion's affairs forecasts had to be revised HEAVILY to the negative ...that's DOWNWARDS..


Economic forecasts are notoriously inaccurate concerning the future, even a few years in the future. Trying to predict a decade or more economically is impossible. That's what the leavers are concerned about the more distant future.





Once more incorrect - I find the need to edit 'my' signature, 'my' profile photo - nicked from here - and my posts proving certain Kremlin sycophants bias, HILARIOUS...

On HERE - the very posters who keep posting daft - use this very Soviet editing as some sort of 'validation' - rather than just saying - "DUH - I didn't know that, thanks"

msmob you're saying that you're treated fairly on RUA? Anyone from RUA watching? Pass it on msmob says he's treated fairly on RUA. My mistake.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #448 on: September 17, 2018, 12:58:49 AM »
Economic forecasts are notoriously inaccurate concerning the future, even a few years in the future. Trying to predict a decade or more economically is impossible. That's what the leavers are concerned about the more distant future.

So, first you call into doubt my assertion - foolish  enough - 'then demand evidence' - which you then call into doubt and now I'll prove the forecast was correct ... you walked RIGHT onto the punch I lined up for you ..


You see my FIRST piece of evidence was from Autumn 2016 - a year later - having been proven correct - ( remember- we were told by 'leave' we'd be £300 million a week better off out of the EU...which could be spent on the National Health Service  ) Hammond is warning we need to RAISE taxes to cover the shortfalls ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42069508

"As well as spending announcements, the chancellor also uses his Budget to update MPs on the state of the economy.

And they cast a shadow on his other announcements, with the Office for Budget Responsibility predicting the economy would grow by 1.5% this year, down from the estimate of 2% it made in March.

Growth, it says, will drop to 1.3% by 2020 and then rise to 1.5% in 2021, lower in every year than was predicted in March.

Borrowing was predicted to be £8.4bn lower than in March, but long-term deficit predictions were hiked to £34.7bn in 2019, going down to £30.1bn in 2021."

Before 'Brexit'  the former Chancellor was proving successful in aiming to turn the corner re excessive borrowing six years earlier - as 'we' were then the faster growing western nation... the 'Brexit' vote made us the slowest



msmob you're saying that you're treated fairly on RUA? Anyone from RUA watching? Pass it on msmob says he's treated fairly on RUA. My mistake.

Indeed it IS your mistake ...  and theirs ... The necessity to edit my profile, signature  - even stealing my profile image from here - and posts to make them read different and not allow a riposte IS hilarious and I'm REALLY not complaining - I LOVE it .. ))


ALL this - to avoid simply admitting you posted clueless ad got busted ?







« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 01:07:40 AM by msmob »
The internet, in the end, was not designed to give people the information they need. It gives people the information they want.

Offline John Gaunt

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #449 on: September 17, 2018, 01:29:51 AM »
Moby

The Emperor with no clothes.

 

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